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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 55
Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - AgainPage 6 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Was the little "Merry Christmas" thingy meant ironically?

What you wrote could have come from the pen of Di.ckens uttered by Scrooge.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 56
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/18/2007 6:54:47 PM
Thank you Cape, for your valuable perspective as a healthcare worker. The situation of having to battle with insurance companies no doubt drives health care personnel crazy and adds lots of unnecessary stress to their already stressful lives. Kick private insurance to the curb right along with the rest of the trash!!! The private insurance industry is no better than the discarded coffee grounds, chicken bones and old newspapers that we take out to the curb on trash day!!
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 57
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/19/2007 2:07:37 PM
There's waste, there's fruad, there's abuse, there's problems, but don't change the system.

Reminds me of Bugs Bunny fighting the Bull, anyone remember that one?

"what a gulliBULL, what a ninCOWpoop, what a maroon. . ."
 str8teshooter
Joined: 12/15/2007
Msg: 58
Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/19/2007 7:01:02 PM
...a problem which no one has noted here in the US vs Canadian health care systems: each Canadian province has a slightly different health care coverage, which is acceptable as long as they all fulfil the requirements of the federal health act. In the US, I suspect you'd see 50 different systems, given that every politician (blue and red) would quickly see the potential power opportunities from health care involvement at the state level.
Logical has come up with some superb suggestions that I think would go a long way towards solving the problems. I am inclined to think that the ultimate solution lies in a mingling of the US and Canadian systems, cherry picking the best of both. CGG, trust me when I say this, government beauracracies can be every bit as bad, or worse, than a company run for profit.
More than a few of Canada's wealthy, and members of our federal government at the Ministerial level, have gone to the US for speedy health care. There was a thread some time back here about one of them in fact. Lots of you here decry the profit system, but just try to get an MRI here in Canada - you could wait months. Often, just to keep the patient happy, the doc will send them for a CAT scan - it isn't medically required, it drives costs up, but the patient feels that 'something' is being done. And he's right - his tax money is being wasted.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 59
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/19/2007 7:42:50 PM
Hillary Clinton doesn't want to provide a real universal health care system. Dennis Kucinich has the plan already written up in legislation, HR 676. Hillary's plan would only give us more of the same with no improvements to our messed up health care system.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 60
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/20/2007 2:24:18 PM
This is maybe getting off track somewhat. But cape brings up an interesting point about drug rehab and cutting funding for those programs. One can still be tough on violent crime while also realizing that someone who uses drugs could benefit from rehabilitation and be able to return to society as a sober, functioning person and taxpayer. The criminals we need to be tough on are the murderers, child molesters and rapists. Those criminals should be locked up for the rest of their lives, while drug offenders who did not commit a violent crime should have the opportunity to go to rehab instead. Mere possession should be viewed as a health issue, not a criminal issue.

Related but back on topic: Kids' health insurance should also include substance abuse and mental health care so that any one who develops a problem at a young age can have it nipped in the bud. Actually those programs should be part and parcel of a universal health care system. With UHC, people who previously could not afford rehab would be able to get off drugs, thus saving taxpayers money in the long run.
 handsm5
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 61
Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/20/2007 2:36:41 PM
Good - thanks Mr. President :) People get jobs they can pay their OWN kids' health insurance.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 62
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/24/2007 9:56:57 AM
So many people seem to support the reTHUGlicans (I like the Night!) despite the fact that they don't do anything to support them.

The tax cuts go to the wealthy, which they are not.

The simply promote racism (use to be against blacks, now it is against anyone with brown skin), as a Red Herring fallacy.

The do their best to keep you poor, ignorant and angry, because that keeps them in power.

Look at the people who post here on the so called right. Often poor, almost always ignorant and 100% angry. I don't know if there is time to turn this ship around before we hit the iceberg I don't think there is enough time to educate enough of them. I don't think you can end the hate and ignorance without education. Changing their economic situation won't change the ignorance or anger.

Perhaps we are doomed to collapse upon our greed and self-importance.

Rome fell, as can we. when your greed makes it so you don't even care when a 17 year old girl, who had health insurance, dies. Perhaps we aren't worth saving anymore!
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 63
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/24/2007 10:27:22 AM
Only a THUG would want to deny health care to children--these two gentlemen above me have it right!!

It is sad that our nation has become so ignorant that people aren't aware of what the Republican Party has become. At one time they had good men like Eisenhower and Teddy Roosevelt. TR, Ike and Gerry Ford are no doubt rolling over in their graves over what the Republicans have become. In fact Gerry Ford criticized Bush not long before his death!

It's EVIL to deny people health care.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 64
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/25/2007 5:20:15 PM
Good post Steve. Excellent retort to etourdi's responses. Our private health care system is a disaster and not what our country should have. Whining about taxes doesn't solve problems. Nor does continuing to allow an idiotic system that allows people to become medically bankrupt like Steve describes. It's a living nightmare to have such a system! It's time for the USA to get with the times and have a REAL health care system in which no one has to worry about medical bankruptcy.
 word nurd
Joined: 8/30/2007
Msg: 65
Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/25/2007 6:07:36 PM
Here's the result our crappy system too often produces:

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-fi-cigna25dec25,1,7386134.story?track=crosspromo&coll=la-headlines-health&ctrack=1&cset=true

A Friday funeral was set for the Northridge teenager who died last week after her insurer refused to pay for a liver transplant and then reconsidered. Meanwhile, the girl's health plan stood by its initial decision Monday...

Nataline Sarkisyan's request was evaluated on an expedited basis using "evidence-based guidelines published by independent physician and medical organizations, as well as expert scientific journals," Cordani said.

A leukemia patient, 17-year-old Nataline had been in intensive care at UCLA Medical Center for about three weeks after suffering complications following a successful bone marrow transplant Nov. 21, relatives said. She was covered under the policy of her mother, a real estate agent.

UCLA doctors put her on a list for a liver transplant Dec. 6 and a liver became available four days later, the family said. Her doctors told Cigna in a letter that patients in similar situations had a 65% chance of living six months if they received a liver transplant.

But the transplant was not done because Cigna deemed it experimental in Nataline's case and refused to pay for it...

~~~~~~~~~~~

When insurance companies, not doctors, make the call, this is too often the result. Needless to say, there's a lawsuit pending. This is how our system "works". This would never happen in any other country that has UHC. Do we in the US really value life? The rest of the "civilized" world looks our way and simply shrugs in disbelief.

We can, and must, do much better.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 66
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/25/2007 7:00:14 PM
AMEN!!! DOCTORS should be the ones making medical decisions, not insurance companies.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 67
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/27/2007 11:12:04 AM
We should not be having to have fundraisers to raise money for people stricken with cancer. That should be the obligation of a universal health care system, not something that should be turned into a charity case.

With that said I give kudos to the 12 year old who cares about the baby with brain cancer.

I agree with niceguy that it is sad that profit matters more in the US health care system than human beings whose lives often hang in the balance over insurance company decisions. As I said, DOCTORS should be the ones making health care decisions, and by passing HR 676 we can get insurance companies out of the picture and allow doctors to do their jobs. I can only imagine the huge sigh of relief from our doctors and nurses once we get rid of the useless private insurance companies.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 68
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/28/2007 4:27:48 PM
No one should have medical bills adding up to thousands of dollars. The private insurance system allows this to happen. Kids and their families don't need this!! Bush is wrong to have vetoed health insurance for kids. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would support Bush after he (no, it) did that!!
 Pearnbran
Joined: 10/4/2005
Msg: 69
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/29/2007 10:01:04 AM
I think its a show of how little people in the world (US) included are.

the bill did not go up as a single item.

the Democratic congress added so much pork (extra spending on pet programs)

that the president had no choice but to veto this bill.

you must realize that had the bill passed that tax payers would have had to cover the cost.

this is not a socialist county. yet.

the largest expense of that bill would have gone to cover illegal immigrants who already receive free health care

not the low income working families that many think.

had the bill gone up as a single line issue many parts of it would have passed
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 70
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/29/2007 7:31:05 PM
I'd much rather associate with someone who is developing software for conversion to a UHC system than someone who lobbies actively against a health care system that would benefit EVERYBODY.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 71
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/31/2007 8:59:02 AM
Bushboy has driven more people away from the USA. Sad, but true.

If the US was a true democracy and not a plutocracy of the rich, Bushboy would not have stolen two elections, and we also would enjoy the same universal health care benefits enjoyed by other democratic nations. We also would have health care for ALL, not just poor children and the elderly. 60-75% of the US population favors switching to UHC, and this would happen if the US was a real democracy.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 72
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 12/31/2007 7:05:18 PM
Good point Carnegie!!!! I certainly don't want this "I hope you've got money" system that we have. If enough people knew what HR 676 entailed, more people would FAVOR it. Yeah, we may have a representative democracy--of the rich. It takes all kinds of money to run for Congress or for President. The rich are well represented while the poor are largely ignored. We have a plutocratic "represent the rich" democracy
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 73
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 1/3/2008 5:09:05 AM
Healthcare and pharmaceutical reform is probably long overdue. Unfortunately since the people making the laws are not subject to the results, the end generally winds up costing far more than intended with the results being far less than planned.
One must wonder that in all the proselytizing where the notion came from to enter into the health insurance game as opposed to the actual health care game. There are countless hospitals going under all over the US because of the policy of providing healthcare to all without regard to ability to pay. If the notion that true socialized medicine is the answer, why not actually enter into that endeavor? We currently have free clinics in every city in the US, why not take the next logical step and get into the ambulance, hospital and pharmaceutical businesses? It’s not as if the notion of government management of a healthcare system is foreign, we do have the current military healthcare system as well as the VA…
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 74
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 1/3/2008 10:04:45 AM
I think most people truly don't understand how our health care system actually works. To imply that there are children who cannot get adequate healthcare in the US because they don't have health insurance is based in ignorance. There is a federal health insurance program for the poor that is specifically geared toward children, in addition there are countless free hospitals that provide not just basic healthcare but even elective medical treatments such as organ transplants at no cost to the families whatsoever.
The biggest healthcare issue we have is the federally mandated treatment of all people who wander into an emergency room, some with legitimate emergencies, and some who just don't want to have to wait until the free clinic opens the next day. It's that abuse that makes the cost of health insurance and non covered health care so high. Do you honestly think that when a hospital charges $12.00 for an aspirin that it has a profit margin of $11.98? It's the cost of all the items the federal government mandates they give away that has wrecked the entire healthcare profession. If someone qualifies for "free" treatment, then they should also qualify for Medicare and other poverty based programs, which ironically in many cases they don't. The government tells the individual they aren't entitled to "welfare" benefits, yet by legislation requires that an industry in the private sector "gift" them goods and services.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 75
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 1/3/2008 10:39:27 AM

Expanded SCHIP was vetoed TWICE by president Bush. Some kids who had SCHIP insurance before have lost it because of his veto or the state has to use taxes that were to be used for a different perpose to cover the shortfall .
Hmmm... I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I believe you may be wrong on that.
Health Insurance premiums have increased over the last 10 years and President bush is only willing to approve a 10% increase in funding.
The reason health insurance costs have increased is because healthcare costs have increased. The answer is not to simply throw more money at it which is specifically what the bill does. It does NOT reform the broken system; it merely puts a multibillion dollar Band-Aid on it.
Health insurance premiums will increase much more over the 10 years then 10% so that means kids will lose SCHIP paid insurance.
Ummm that's not how that works.... it means fewer and fewer private facilities will accept new patients covered under federal insurance programs.

Every Canadian has health insuranace so will never have to depend on charity help for medical treatment.
I'd wager at least 25% of Canadian citizens don't shoulder their full portion of the costs, so in essence you have been federally mandated to donate to a medical charity.

What it looks like to me is that many Canadians want us to adopt your medical system and I'm not sure why. Clearly the majority of Americans don't want it, so why is our healthcare such a huge issue for you? It's not like our poor can come across your border and get free healthcare, that's reserved for Canadian Citizens, yet you insist we provide it for our own AND the illegal aliens that are here. If you really are that concerned about children here being slighted, here's an address you can send some money to as a donation:
http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2edae64c5b470110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD&vgnextchannel=b1f87ff0be118010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 76
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 1/6/2008 6:39:01 PM
Beautifully said, lizbeth!! c'est bon!!

I agree wholeheartedly that corruption and lobbying is keeping us from enjoying the same kind of quality health care benefits that the Canadian people enjoy.

Campaign donations by the private insurance industry run rampant in Washington, and this corruption must be put to a stop. Only REGISTERED VOTERS should be allowed to make donations, not corporations or special interest groups. We the people should have more power than lobbyists, corporations or special interest groups.

John Edwards made an excellent point about this in last night's debate.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 77
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 1/9/2008 5:46:55 PM
Ronny Ray Gun.... Brings back memories of the Star Trek: First Contact movie and Dr. Lilly Sloane's line: "My first ray gun!"

Ronny Ray Gun was not a good president for many reasons. Anyway Bush is comparable to Dumb and Dumber. I find it appalling that a president would veto insurance for kids.

Time for someone who isn't influenced by the lobbyists!! Enough already.

If I ever run for Congress I will have a sign on my office door; "No lobbyists beyond this point". If they don't obey they will encounter a pair of burly bouncers to kick them out and deny them access. It's high time people listened to the downtrodden and the poor who need help the most rather than greedy special interest lobbyists backing such things as our private health care system.
 ok72076
Joined: 4/8/2006
Msg: 78
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 1/11/2008 8:15:24 PM
The reason Bush vetoed the SChip bill because the Democrats wanted to give Medicaid to adults and for parents who make $80K or more. In Arkansas, that is NOT poor. At that income, paying for insurance is a matter of priorities.... $400 -$500 cAR PAYMENT OR INSURANCE AT THE job.
'
The democrats don't understand living within your means.

Instead of a new freebie, the states and the federal government would be better off expanding semi free clinics at the various health departments. Instead of paying insruance companies to deal with doctors, you just HIRE the doctors and nurses. You get Congress to require anyone attending a public post-secondary to have to work a year after med school graduation for the local health office or the military. Lawyers could be required to work at free legal clinics.

THE Clinics would be free at the time of service, but HMO like fees would be charged against anyone's future income tax refunds and the government would just intercept that refund amount to pay for any visit to the clinic!
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 79
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Bush Vetoes Kids Health Insurance Bill - Again
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:24:44 AM
What about a sliding scale for buying into SCHIP for those with higher incomes??? Seems like this would be a reasonable solution to that problem. As the income goes up then the premium is a bit higher. Heck, we should make SCHIP available for ALL kids, even kids from rich families who desire to buy into SCHIP.

I wish we had a CHOICE in our nation so that people can buy into or opt into a universal health care system instead of dealing with the hassles of private insurance. I for one would no doubt choose to buy in or opt in (depending on my finances) into a UHC setup because I would have known standards of care rather than fighting a private insurance company for coverage.

Frankly I wouldn't mind if private insurance was done away with altogether because too many times it has proven useless when people have died due to denial of care.
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