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 KrakenReborn
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 26
FREE Federalized Health CarePage 2 of 31    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31)
Mothers in British Columbia are having a baby boom, but it's the United States that has to deliver, and that has some proud Canadians blasting their highly touted government healthcare system.

"I'm a born-bred Canadian, as well as my daughter and son, and I'm ashamed," Jill Irvine told FOX News. Irvine's daughter, Carri Ash, is one of at least 40 mothers or their babies who've been airlifted from British Columbia to the U.S. this year because Canadian hospitals didn't have room for the preemies in their neonatal units.

"It's a big number and bigger than the previous capacity of the system to deal with it," said Adrian Dix, a British Columbia legislator, told FOXNews.com. "So when that happens, you can't have a waiting list for a mother having the baby. She just has the baby."
"I just want to go home and see my kids," she said from her Seattle hospital bed. "I think it's stupid I have to be here."

Canada's socialized health care system, hailed as a model by Michael Moore in his documentary, "Sicko," is hurting, government officials admit, citing not enough money for more equipment and staff to handle high risk births.

Sarah Plank, a spokeswoman for the British Columbia Ministry of Health, said a spike in high risk and premature births coupled with the lack of trained nurses prompted the surge in mothers heading across the border for better care.

"The number of transfers in previous years has been quite low," Plank told FOXNews.com. "Before this recent spike we went for more than a year with no transfers to the U.S., so this is something that is happening in other provinces as well."

Critics say these border crossings highlight the dangers of a government-run health care system.

"The Canadian healthcare system has used the United States as a safety net for years," said Michael Turner of the Cato Institute. "In fact, overall about one out of every seven Canadian physicians sends someone to the United States every year for treatment."

Neonatal intensive care units in Alberta and Ontario have also been stretched to capacity, she said.

Is that what your saying never occurs?
 Flyers_Phan
Joined: 1/16/2005
Msg: 27
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/21/2007 3:33:16 PM
ah, niceguy yet again spouting off about the benefits of universal healthcare, this guy is so blind, perhaps he should go in for some lasik and pay some cash for it. Talk to me about how great it is when they decide to pay for my eye surgery pal, unless you wanna give me the $7,000 it costs that OHIP doesn't want to cover. But hey its ok, I'll end up losing my vision and have to fight to go on disability and I'll enjoy doing nothing while you pay for me to do nothing.

You annoy the hell out of me with this crusade that you have going on, I hope you end up being in a position where you get sick and get told, oh, we don't cover that, or that you have to live the reality of waiting long, you think waiting 109 days for a hip replacement is somehow not long, are you stupid? 109 days for a person to be in pain perhaps and not being able to walk, tell them it isn't long. Wake the hell up and take the blinders off, universal health care sucks, so does the crap they have in the States, especially seeing on the news how a 17 year old girl died because her health insurance wouldn't cover the liver transplant she needed, saying it was experimental, finally they agreed to cover it but she dies like the same day.

I'm all for universal health care but when they decide to not cover something and let people die, or go blind or whatever, what the hell is so great about that eh?



A canadian has health insurance from before they are born till they die and canadian do NOT go bankrupt from medical bills.


no they just die because they can't afford treatment



The American health care system in the USA is a mess


and it isn't in Canada, again, you're nuts



You have a FREE eye exam every 2 years in Ontario


how generous, I get 1 free every year coz I have an eye disease, again, how generous



They pay for lazer eye surger if it's to correct injuries or diseases conditions. I should know, my mother got it free of charge.

Expecting them to pay for it so you dont' have to wear glasses is like expecting them to pay for your girlfriends boob job.


No, if you look on OHIP website, they tell you what eye surgeries are paid for and I only came across one that was covered by it, and it wasn't lasik. What I have does not require a lasik surgery, and I do have corneal disease. I don't need the surgery so as not to ever have to wear glasses, I need it so i can see with glasses.




 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 28
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/21/2007 5:13:12 PM
I think the American health care system has been a bad mistake, tragically causing too many people to lose their lives due to denial of needed care.

There is MORE rationing in the US system than in Canada. That is a crock of baloney to say that having UHC would result in rationing in the US health care system when we ALREADY have terrible rationing and people dying due to lack of care.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 29
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/21/2007 5:37:25 PM
Try saying that about people being refused health care in America to Cape Garden Girl's mom who had to battle an insurance company which denied her treatment for a few months before finally winning that fight. Try telling that to ME after I waited six months for surgery. Try telling that to those who are totally denied care and end up dead because the insurance company would not pay for much needed treatments to keep these people alive. It happens every day here in America and it's very sad. UHC will NOT make things worse, UHC will be a huge improvement over the bloated, profit driven private health "care" system, er, scam that Americans are stuck with!

Being denied care or forcing people to fight insurance companies is RATIONING, and is worse than dialing up the UHC provider to book the care needed and knowing that the care is coming, even if there's a wait, which occurs anyway in private health care systems as well as UHC systems. The difference is not worrying about getting the needed care vs. fighting a greedy insurance carrier to get that care. We Americans should be free of that burden of fighting insurance companies and worrying about medical bankruptcy. I would give anything for the USA to finally get caught up with the rest of the free world so that I could simply dial up my health care provider and get the care I need without the hassles of private insurance companies.
 capegardengirl
Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 30
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/21/2007 10:01:17 PM
"Federalized insurance companies wont change this practice and chances are with added red tape a federalized policy will likely cover less while veryones taxes will increase"

The same thing is happening with private managed care insurance...Your premiums are increasing to pay for corporate beaurocracy, poor decision making on the part of managed care and costly overhead while your benefits shrink and gatekeepers reject insurance claims in order to keep their profits........Govt. programs are regulated and managed care isnt....Theres no accountability on the part of managed care.....MBAs make final healthcare decisions, not your doctor or healthcare provider...My recommendations as a therapist have been rejected many times by managed care companies ...As have most therapists recommmendations......Ive had to write extensive notes in clients charts stating the treatment decision wasnt mine but the insurance company's ....So that if something goes wrong, Im not sued for something I never approved of or authorized.....Theres something very wrong with a system that forces me to do that.....So other than govt. programs are regulated and managed care isnt, whats the difference here?..Waste is waste whether its a govt. program or private insurance...The effect is all the same...So why give special consideration to so called "private care"?...It still wastes your money and hikes up your insurance premiums...
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 31
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Posted: 12/22/2007 11:50:05 AM
As I understand it liposuction and laser hair removal procedures are not the kind of things covered under UHC. Those types of procedures are not medically necessary and should be paid for out of pocket for those who can afford those.

No one should have to wait for treatment of something serious because of a private insurance carrier being greedy. Nice guy has it right that serious stuff should be treated quickly and I for one am glad for the Canadians that they do not have to fight insurance companies thus having to delay treatment for serious health problems. We in the USA should enjoy that freedom from the greed of private insurance companies.
 KrakenReborn
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 32
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/23/2007 8:29:07 AM
If we were to do as some would propose, we would face the same problems that exist in the legal world; better treatment for those that could afford it. Everyone has the right to an attorney; but does this mean that he, or she, is allowed the best possible attorney for the situation? We wouldbe dreaming to assume that the legal system is totally correct with every decision of guilt or innocence, but we can not force a good attorney to defend someone that can not afford to pay. Doctors willbe overworked, under paid, and the best will turn to private care, where there will not be a salary cap.
 btj_rv
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 33
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/23/2007 9:26:05 AM
I believe no cost federalized health care, aside from existing government programs, ie. medicare, medicaid, if implemented in the US would be a way to pacify the masses. A patient admitted to the hospital who would normally not be able to afford treatment would have certain procedures overlooked to save money. You would also have patients that would be left at hospitals and denied access to procedures based on subjective criteria. Thus, the disparity in healthcare would continue. However, politically it would sound good in theory to have it in place. I believe the issue remains creating jobs so that people have a way to earn income to pay for health care. The pension fund crisis and retirement savings issues make taxing and budgeting for such an ideal healthcare system more difficult to implement in the US. Retirement for generations to come is an important issue also and is tied into medicare, and medicaid.
 btj_rv
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 34
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/23/2007 9:36:33 AM
In the New England factories, if an employee didn't meet his production quota, there were a thousand others outside the gate wanting the job who would meet the quota.


This makes sense to me. It makes even more sense to me with in the theory of free enterprise.
 Flyers_Phan
Joined: 1/16/2005
Msg: 35
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Posted: 12/23/2007 2:08:02 PM

I am bored to tears by your constant tirade and the blinders you wear when it comes to health care in Canada.


I think many people are, it makes me sick, I think I'll go to the hospital and wait 8 hours to see a doctor. Then I will report how "great"our system really is.
 AZVern
Joined: 12/10/2007
Msg: 36
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/23/2007 6:52:27 PM
I guess I was wrong; Canada ALONE gives us more oil than all of the middle east.

U.S. Imports by Country of Origin
Period - Canada - Persian Gulf (Combined)
Apr-07 - 74,375 - 65,769
May-07 - 76,311 - 66,596
Jun-07 - 71,240 - 71,171
Jul-07 - 73,150 - 65,061
Aug-07 - 77,822 - 67,295
Sep-07 - 75,063 - 70,004
Total - 447,961 - 405,896
Source: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

Seems like your data are wrong. Wanna try again?

Remember what I said about stupid questions?
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 37
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Posted: 12/23/2007 6:59:16 PM
People wait for months on end in the USA awaiting approval from the insurance carrier to have surgeries performed. THAT is unacceptable!!

John Stossel on 20/20 is a lying piece of junk. He lies through his teeth to press a nutty conservative agenda. After all this is the same moron who built a multimillion dollar house in the sand at Westhampton Beach and the house fell into the ocean. Idiot! Even a dog knows that you don't build houses in the SAND with no barriers to protect the house. That is so stupid! Even people I know who have houses on the shore have a barrier up, rocks and regular soil to keep the house firmly in place during storms. Not idiot Stossel. What a moron! I would not want someone working as a journalist who is so stupid as to build a house in the sand LOL

 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 38
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/24/2007 3:50:02 AM
>>>THAT is unacceptable!!

So a healthcare system that you choose that screws you over is more unacceptable than the healthcare that you are forced to agree with through violence? BOTH systems have redictuless waiting periods- but one of them gives you the freedom to take your business to the company that works harder for you.

>>>Even a dog knows that you don't build houses in the SAND with no barriers to protect the house.

Luckily we're discussing political theory, not construction methods.
 rick75006
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 39
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/24/2007 5:18:53 AM
Its curious when you look at all these proposals from the clowns that are running for president, both sides. The GOP's basically say everyone has to have a policy, and if someone can't afford it, they will get a tax credit. The dems have all kinds of schemes, where employers or the government ponies up money to cover everyone. The common flaw: The health care industry, which inflates costs at near double digit rates per year, is a sacred cow. In other industries that have oligopolistic and monopolistic power, like pipelines, regulation or trust busting has been used. The problem is market power.

Another problem with this is the insurance industry, per se. Insurance is about spreading risk. The Medicare system worked reasonably well controlling costs through the setting of customary and reasonable rates for its large group. Recent changes to the system go in the opposite direction--creating smaller groups of seniors.

Other countries may not have perfect systems, but when they buy Lipitor, they pay a hell of a lot less for it than we do, because their governments are large scale buyers of products and services. In any town, hospitals and clinics are at best oligopolies. We grant drug companies temporary monopoly power through patents. The list goes on, but again, the problem is not about covering everyone, but really about exploding, uncontrolled costs.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 40
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Posted: 12/24/2007 10:32:01 AM
Rick makes a really good point about Lipitor--with universal health care prescription costs would go DOWN as the gov't becomes a bulk buyer for the medications.

 KrakenReborn
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 41
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/24/2007 4:05:55 PM
Stronach went to U.S. for cancer treatment: report

8/14/07 ctv.ca

Liberal MP Belinda Stronach, who is battling breast cancer, travelled to California last June for an operation that was recommended as part of her treatment, says a report.

He said speed was not the reason why she went to California.

Instead, MacEachern said the decision was made because the U.S. hospital was the best place to have it done due to the type of surgery required.

While it is rare for MPs to seek treatment outside Canada, MacEachern said Stronach was not lacking confidence in the system.

Stronach, who announced last April she would be leaving politics before the next election, paid for the surgery in the U.S., reports the Star.

"In fact, Belinda thinks very highly of the Canadian health-care system, and uses it when needed for herself and her children, as do all Canadians. As well, her family has clearly demonstrated that support," MacEachern told the Star.
Let's see...40 preems..and a government official...shall we see just how many are coming south?
 KrakenReborn
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 42
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/24/2007 5:03:49 PM
I know what she had, and your logic makes zero sense. If you are saying that ductal carcinoma in situ can not become invasive, you need to learn your facts.
40 preemies was one province, not Canada wide.
We warned of ER deaths
MDs: Doctors complaining of sub-par care for 3 years, reports show
Barbara Yaffe, Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, April 27, 2006

Internal hospital documents released Wednesday show doctors have been warning B.C. politicians for at least three years about patients dying in emergency department hallways.

They've also been ringing alarm bells about the unacceptable standard of emergency care available to people in Vancouver's outlying areas.Over and over, politicians and government officials were advised that patients were suffering, and dying, because all the demands on the health system were being permitted to back up into emergency departments.

A no-holds-barred memo from the B.C. Medical Association emergency medicine section to then-health minister Colin Hansen and his deputy, Penny Ballem, dated March 22, 2003 and titled ED overcrowding and poor quality of care, warned:

"We will be approaching the media soon."

This memo referred to one emergency patient suffering from meningitis, who "will never work again because of brain damage, as a result of a long wait in the waiting room and thus a delay in antibiotics." It does not specify the hospital where the tragedy occurred.

The doctors' memo also cites "cardiac arrest in the waiting room. Many examples here."

Other preventable deaths were also cited: "Some patients, such as those with stroke, intracranial hemorrhage, sepsis, myocardial infarction are thought to be dying directly because of delays to care because of Emergency Department crowding."

An equally alarming message, dated Dec. 23, 2003, was sent by Dr. Joe Haegert, then-head of the Royal Columbian Hospital's ER to Bob Smith, then-CEO of the Fraser Health Authority. It was copied to Hansen, Ballem and 11 other officials.

It stated: "Almost every week we have someone who has been waiting in the waiting room a prolonged period of time, and then ARRESTS in the waiting room.

"We have had a very large number of documented cases where the delay to treatment actually caused harm. In some of these cases, it is our opinion that the delay was contributory to death.

"For example, we have had many severe infections that, after waiting many hours in the waiting room, finally developed septic shock, intubation or death."

The letter complained about a backup of ambulance stretchers in the Royal Columbian's emergency department. "This is really unsafe, tying up our ambulances. . . One shift there were so many ambulance stretchers that the fire marshall threatened to close down the Emergency Department!"

Haegert wrote of his ER on occasion having up to 10 chest-pain patients, obviously at risk of heart attack, waiting for care, people in severe pain, "vomiting in a bucket or on the floor because we have no bed to treat them in."

He wrote: "It is clear that no where else in Canada comes close to our severe crowding problem. My colleagues at St. Paul's ask me: 'how can you keep working there?' "

Haegert reported, "our nurses break down almost on a daily basis because they are so upset at the poor access to care due to gridlock."

Doctors say the situation persists to this day.
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 43
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/24/2007 5:43:50 PM
>>>Wierd concept and not the christian thing to do.

Sounds awefully alot like you're imposing your religious views onto others....



(Yes, I am aware of the irony of that)
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 45
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Posted: 12/25/2007 5:36:45 PM
Our health care system reflects what banks are doing. Help the rich, screw the poor.

I changed banks because the money market account I had charged monthly service charges whenever the balance went below $1,000. One way to screw the poor! The other is the varied interest rates offered on money markets at this and most banks. They give higher interest rates the more money you put in, thus helping the rich and screwing the poor. I changed when I finally, at long last, found an honorable bank that applies the same interest rate regardless of the amount in the account, and also does not charge anything for having a minimum balance. It's a fair and equitable setup at this particular bank, and the rate is a good one, given to EVERYONE, not just the rich.

Privatized health care favors the rich while screwing the poor. Same idea, different industry. We need to regulate industries so that they don't give special breaks to the rich who can care for themselves, while also ripping off poor people.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 46
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/26/2007 10:10:52 AM
Slummy health care???!!! We already have that with the greedy private insurance companies in the United States

We need to UPGRADE to universal health care Canadian style. What we have now kills people and does not make life better for many. People are DENIED care, never mind waiting for care that is scheduled to arrive without having to fight a stingy insurance company.

PRIVATE INSURANCE IS SLUMMY, NOT UHC!!!!!

The poor and those who cannot afford private health care end up in the "slums" of not being able to get care, and even those who are fairly well off run the risk of medical bankruptcy, forcing once well off people to live in slums. What a crock to call UHC the slums of health care when in reality the UHC is more like a pleasant middle class neighborhood where everything is decent, and the people there do not have to worry about medical bankruptcy or denial of care. A standard of decency should apply to ALL, rich and poor alike, and that is what UHC is all about.
 TIbeachgal
Joined: 8/22/2007
Msg: 47
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/26/2007 11:43:04 AM
Wow, and the "poor" don't even have to WORK for all their "freebies". Such a deal - all who work carry these non-doers on our backs. The only people who should get help are those who are totally unable to help themselves. What a concept. When you all talk about free health care from the Federal Government - REMEMBER - that's us working class that pays for all that. WE are the government. Wake up America! ! !
 dahliah1
Joined: 10/26/2007
Msg: 48
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/26/2007 11:45:32 AM
I aggree with anni, since she is a borderline qualified $10.00 food stamp recipient to recieve the free federalized health care. Several government grants are friviolous and would be better used in cutting down the spread of communitable disease. Naturally the corporations and upper middle class have the use of tax attorney skills always benifit from their expertise. While those that are financially suffering are punished for being this way. The truth will set us free. From the tirany and oppression of the wicked and abusive wealthy selective one.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 49
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/26/2007 4:40:21 PM
Marie V. Great post!!!!!

It's high time we Americans started taking care of our own people.

I don't appreciate the profanity being used by certain posters to make their points made. I would appreciate a more respectful tone from those who do not agree with universal health care.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 50
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 12/26/2007 4:53:44 PM
The points may be valid to some, but I believe that the points against universal health care are NOT valid or helpful to those in need. On many issues I can see the other point of view with no difficulty provided that the person is not an extremist. But when it comes to health care, I believe very strongly that health care is a basic human right.

I do have to point out that using profanity does not help make a point more valid. Perhaps profanity is considered appropriate to you, but I do not feel that use of such language makes a good impression. I am not impressed by people who use nasty language to promote their cause, such as AG's desire to not have universal health care. Fine if someone doesn't want it, but this is a democracy, and it is my hope that enough Americans will rout out the politicians who are blocking our path to a REAL health care system when it comes election time. I believe that it is the MINORITY of Americans who are rabidly against UHC, such as AG. Most people I know support it, even moderate Republicans who have not been poisoned by the "neocon" thinking.

Insulting me by calling my request for more polite language "pitiful" was inappropriate!!
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