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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > FREE Federalized Health Care      Home login  
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 IndigoPanda
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 126
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FREE Federalized Health CarePage 6 of 31    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31)
The little experiment begins:

San Francisco has no mandated "Universal" health care for all city residents. Everyone one pays for their "FREE" healthcare. All businesses must cover all employees even those who typically would not get health care like Restaurant employees. The Restaurant owners solution, instead of raising prices to cover the cost of healthcare, all bills will now have a "SURCHARGE" on it for Healthcare so diners can see exactly how much "EXTRA" they have to may to provide "FREE" healthcare for the businesses employees.

Let us see how many businesses go under or leave San Francisco for the suburbs. I can see Oakland making a Killing attracting new businesses. Remember consumers vote with their dollars.
 IndigoPanda
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 127
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/19/2008 10:35:18 PM

Why yes, because a city is just like a country, and you can easily extrapolate between the two in terms of the effects of laws. Perfectly reasonable


Wow, that did not take long. San Francisco just started its MANDATORY "Universal Health care" for the whole city and someone is already justifying its failure. I would think the "open-minded" thing to do would be to give it time and see if it FAILS on its own first, instead of offering apologies for its FAILURE
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 128
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/20/2008 4:41:43 AM
Don't you get it? Charles is perfectly okay with giving you and your children and your childrens childrens a massive debt to pay off. Given the number of people who are retiring that will immediately start using programs like federal healthcare and federal retirement programs, and eventually that money will run out and run into a massive deficit. And who do you think will pay for that?

So enjoy looking to the future, where our children will have to invest not in their own health and their own retirement, but will have to spend their lives paying off our debts because the world owed us everything, but the world owes future generations nothing.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 129
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/20/2008 11:41:22 AM
Not only that, I really do wonder how they're going to pay much of anything back after we've run them out of oil and poisoned our international goodwill to such an extent that those nations that do have oil would prefer to sell it to China, India and Japan--anyone but us.

There is a price to be paid for the privilege of playing cop to the world. Unfortunately, as with so many of our excesses, it will be our grandchildren who will be paying it.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 130
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/20/2008 1:20:34 PM
Fair enough.

I don't particularly want to pay for wars that I don't believe are justified. I'll be happy to pay for the social programs you don't like if you're willing to foot the bill for the DoD.

Deal?
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 131
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/21/2008 8:37:44 AM
.

What I do with my money and my budget is my business. I don't want to have to pay for any social programs, especially programs that I recieve nothing from. If you want your tax dollars to go to all the free love and nickel beer programs that's fine. But count me out. Taxation without representation. Gotta love it.
______________________________



Do You support the "Socialization of Wall Street and Bank Shark Losses"

$200 of bad loans Socialized last we.....
Did we require more regulation or any change at all?????

Free love don't cost much and nickel Beer...ha ha

We cannot afford Healthcare for Poor.....NO WAY

How about Free Beer
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 132
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/21/2008 6:03:01 PM
I'm with you up to the point where you talk about taxation without representation.

We _do_ have representation, or should, and if the political process has been corrupted it's current corruptions is being financed by the interests who are most opposed to socializing health care.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 133
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/22/2008 6:48:52 AM
.
Free healthcare will be more expensive than you can imagine, it will also be less efficient with lower quality and less options.
-----



You just bought $200 billion in BAD loans........ From ONE Bank....... Socialization of Corp Welfare.......



HA. HA HA HA

Screw the uninsured Kids.....

Nickel Beer would cost too much......

 IndigoPanda
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 134
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/24/2008 9:02:50 PM
Sure, Healthcare will be "FREE", but whose grandchildren and great-grandchildren, etc.......will be paying for it FOREVER.

Then suddenly the healthcare becomes rationed. If you smoke, ever did recreational drugs, drank alcohol, ate one big mac too many, ride a motorcycle, an ATV or snowmobile, sky-dive, bungee jump, etc.....then you do not get healthcare.

Now we know Liberals like Abortion on demand, wait until those that have children who are mentally retarded or handicapped get those children disposed of by the Governmental Healthcare authorities. Doesn't Communist China use that system? I really do not see people flocking to China for Healthcare.
 æøn
Joined: 3/14/2007
Msg: 135
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 3/25/2008 1:42:19 PM

Where did Congress go wrong?


If voters had as much influence over elected representatives as private interests do, something might actually get done in the area of health care...
 IndigoPanda
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 136
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/1/2008 11:06:00 PM

I saw the word "FREE" in the heading of this post...are you sure it's really free? Can anyone explain how "FREE" government run health care is going to be?


1. FREE is what everyone thinks it will be, politicians love Universal Healthcare, means everyone has to pay MORE taxes. Especially Hillary, if you do not pay, you go to JAIL, how is that for taking our FREEdom away.

2. FREE means having to fill out more forms, wait in line longer, and having worse service.

3. FREE will be just like the communist system, they were doing it all so well, you a butcher, you a doctor, you a butcher, you a doctor, etc.....

4. FREE means no longer having to fly to Havana to see a WORLD REKNOWN, nobel prize winning doctor. (LOL)

5. FREE means if the doctor screws up and maims you, kills you or makes you a vege, you can not sue either.

6. Just remember you get what you pay for.

 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 137
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/2/2008 5:26:40 PM
I'd like to say, "you're fired!!" to the greedy private health insurance companies that drive people into medical bankruptcy and make it difficult for people with lower incomes to access health care!!
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 138
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/2/2008 6:05:16 PM
..hard to pursue happiness when I get busted for buying a bag of weed
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 139
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/3/2008 11:19:30 AM
Steven wrote an excellent post, and tells it just like it is here in the US. I would LOVE to fire the dreadful private insurance companies so that I can get health care that isn't rationed out in the name of profit. Private insurance IS like private schools. Only the rich can afford private schools, which aren't always better than public schools, which actually offer more services especially for students with special needs. One of my friends has two kids and decided to go with the public schools because of more services available to the children as opposed to the private schools.

Our system is now comparable to having only private, unaffordable schools to choose from. We should be able to choose away from private insurance and buy into a government plan if we don't like private insurance companies. We are actually deprived freedom of choice by not having a governmental health insurance plan from which I and other consumers could buy rather than using greed based private insurance companies which are more likely to deny needed care because profits are more important than a person's health needs.
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 140
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/3/2008 12:41:08 PM

We should be able to choose away from private insurance and buy into a government plan if we don't like private insurance companies. We are actually deprived freedom of choice by not having a governmental health insurance plan..


So you would deny others their freedom of choice by forcing them to pay the taxes to fund your government-backed health insurance?
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 141
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/3/2008 7:30:05 PM
Perhaps a simplified insurance contract can be made, and enforced by law. The insurance company MUST pay upfront...if they have a beef with the payout, let them take the onus of taking it to court and proving they should not of had to pay. Limit the time for courts to 6 weeks....from time of notice of legal action to conclusions. Rush things a bit....no more long waits...but make the insurance companies the ones to try and reclaim the cash, rather than denying people their benefits in the hopes they die off or give up.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 142
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/3/2008 8:45:19 PM
I'd rather pay via taxes than "donate" money to greedy private insurance companies. I also tired of the rich whining and crying about paying taxes--they are the ones who can take care of themselves as far as I'm concerned. I don't care about them and their "problems". McCain is a fool for wanting to make even MORE tax cuts aimed at the rich and the big corporate pigs.

We need change, and we need it fast!! Steven's post above really tells it like it is!
 IndigoPanda
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 143
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/3/2008 9:45:20 PM
My own insurance is $1,200 a month, it is creeping up as a percent of income and predicted to go to 25% OF YOUR INCOME.


Is that just you or the whole family? For me and the children, I pay $42.10 a month. Yes that is a month, I work for an EVIL Corporation....LOL If it was just me, I would pay $10.00/month, but children seem to have to go to the doctor more ( Well Baby programs, immunizations, colds, etc...) You must have either:
a. a lousy employer

Hardball, I've worked in state government for 15 years, currently at a state department of public health and have my masters degree in public health with a concentration in health services and finance..... I have a clue.


b. a lousy insurance provider.
c. are really being scammed
d. possibly making this up, since most government employees I know, get gold-plated insurance benefits, which according to STATE law, can not be taken away.


. We DESPERATELY need effective preventive care to reduce complications from chronic illness, but it is not happening BECAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN IT.


No big macs, no smoking, no recreation drugs ever, government-mandated exercise programs, no ice cream, no skate boards, etc...........



 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 144
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/5/2008 6:06:37 AM
Free health care..hmmm sounds great. But we will pay via taxes. Here in Wisconsin there was a plan to get statewide coverage (which failed, and never went very far). But it looked some thing like this.

If a resident of Wisconsin had NO income he/she got the same coverage as a person working 40 to 60 hours a week. And as a person that makes 100,000 plus. It indeed was a very socialist plan. Punish the workers. Anyways, the more you make the more you pay for this coverage. A person that makes over 45K per year would pay $300 dollars per month. So why on earth do I want to work? Hell, I can go to the food pantry and get free munchies, get housing aid, and now get free health care! My personal thoughts are this.

The only true way to help someone is by not helping them at all. Let them help themselves. By helping them, we are often keeping them down and not giving them the motivation for change and improvements.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 145
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/5/2008 7:08:32 AM
As I've said before, a Medicare system is not FREE.

Having ONE insurance plan for everyone allows people to reduce costs of insurance, as the poster above pointed out. With more people paying into one plan, and all hospitals dealing with one insurer, overall costs can be reduced.

It also allows you to change jobs, without worrying about coverage.

All you have to do is look at how this system works in Canada, and you can easily see the advantages in it. I can walk into any hospital , present my Medicare card, and get treatment - anywhere in Canada.

I also have a company medical insurance plan, which costs me roughly twenty dollars a week, that allows me certain improvements - like semi-private rooms, long term disability insurance, life insurance, and paid prescriptions (with a small deductible).

For twenty dollars a week, that's a bargain.


Still some argue that Canadian medicare is a monopoly v or, a more accurate term for a single purchaser, a monopsony. In these situations, so the argument goes, there is no competition, leading to perpetually high costs. v If that argument were true, healthcare costs in countries with parallel quasi-private systems of financing care (such as Australia), parallel public and private systems (such as in France and Germany), or market-based systems (such as in the United States) would be far lower than the costs of Canada’s publicly financed system. In fact, total health spending as a share of GDP in Canada (at 9.8 percent) is comparable to that of Australia (9.5 percent), lower than in France (11.1 percent) and Germany (10.7), and significantly lower than in the U.S. (15.3 percent).

http://www.chsrf.ca/mythbusters/html/myth28_e.php
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 146
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/5/2008 8:03:12 AM
Unlike Montreal Guy, I cannot just "show my card" anywhere in Canada and get health care treatment. The quebec health care system only pays a certain amount....and rates vary throughout Canada for different treatments, etc. Can you go to the gas station, pump 30 bucks of gas and tell the propriator that you are only paying twenty dollars because that is what it would cost you back home? Nope...but Quebec does this on a regualr basis. Also, the "extras" paid for by another insurance is a good thing, but only offered by companies that are large enough to have them, or members of a large union. Hundreds of small companies cannot afford this "extra", and cannot offer it to their employees. So, if anythng happens to them, they don't get continued paycheques, reduced prices for drugs, whatever. Most often these jobs don't pay as well as many others either....so the people wind up losing everything. Don't think for a minute that gov't programs will help either...the do their level best to NOT help....they don't want to pay out either.
This is just one aspect of how things went way wrong when the gov't dissallowed small companies involved in the wood business to form a large union. Small unions fractured up carry far less clout and cannot offer people this alternative safety net.
Some people have subsidized drug costs through the gov't...many do not. So it is still a choice of eating or paying for medication. It is not a simple matter of applying for it either. Sometimes they have a reimboursment program....but ogften it does not work either.

Yes...I can get basic treatment anywhere in the country....but I can't get things like crutches, etc, if needed. I can't get physiotherapy. I can't get anything covered for mental health issues, unless I have gone totally nuts and am inserted into the system via the courts, etc. I cannot get my choice of doctors, specialists, etc. I can get CAT scans or such things way ahead of time if I pay for it separately myself...although some insurance companies will replace the costs of these thigns. Line-jumping, kind of, but thrrough private clinics, if you can afford their services. It is way more complicated than many think.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 147
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/5/2008 8:24:55 AM

Also, the "extras" paid for by another insurance is a good thing, but only offered by companies that are large enough to have them, or members of a large union. Hundreds of small companies cannot afford this "extra", and cannot offer it to their employees.


I work for a rather small company, actually. It's probably got less than one hundred employees (I've never counted, to be honest). Although unionized , the medical insurance is something offered by the company to all it's employees. It has nothing to do with the union.

The additional medical insurance offered under a private plan is a supplemental one. It provides some important benefits not covered by the basic coverage everyone is assured of regardless of income.

Both the US and Canadian models of health care insurance feature negatives. I just see far less of them under our system. It ensures that sick people are treated, and that makes society better.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 148
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/5/2008 10:15:22 AM
Romantic heretic

A person with no limbs is the exception. What i am getting at is all of the lazy azzz bums in america. The able bodied that choose not to work. We have a homeless shelter here in green bay for the winter, and every year more and more people keep filling it up. The nieghbors of the shelter are angry cuz they have drunks passed out on their porches and at times breaking into their cars. I'd personally like to leave a bottle of tainted booze on my porch if I was in that neighborhood. I have no COMPASION! I live by the laws of nature and these people seem pretty useless. The shelter is a good idea, but they should have to do some thing in order to stay there. #1 They must work 40 hours per week. If they do not work, or work enough then they will do things for the city. Such as---Go on side walk snow shoveling duty! Why should I as a tax payer shovel my driveway, and pay for a bum to have a place to rest and do nothing. At least shovel some of the tax payers sidewalks, especially our elderly and disabled residents. If a person wants to use a service by the tax payers they should have to give something back to the tax payers.

I have worked very hard in my life and have gotten ahead. People in america are to concerned about looking wealthy and driving big SUV's and having mortgage payments they cant afford. And then when gas goes up they cry, but they still wont get rid of that SUV for a hybrid. When they get a ARM mortgage and can no longer make the payments they cry, but they still wont get a smaller house. They cry because THEY have made a bad choice, and refuse to give up their high standard of living. And soon it becomes everybodys problem. So if I go to the casino and lose money, is that really my fault? maybe the goverment should step in and regulate casino's. Maybe I should get a bailout from the goverment over gambling losses. People need to learn how to take care of themselves.
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 149
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FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/5/2008 3:33:09 PM
Healthcare reform with no profit motive is UnAmerican and will be fillbustered.
We need more people getting trained in healthcare, and retail clincs and other ninches are starting to correct the dysfunctions in the healthcare sector. There about 6% of the population that drive up 80% of the healthcare costs because of cr0nic illnesss. The problem is not treating people once thier ill, but paying for it. The system is not desgined for the comsumer to know what they are paying for, nor is it desgined to take into account lower income ability to pay. Everthing with bigbrother funding everything from golf carts to hottubs with nationalized system will result in fillbuster. Need 60 senators to get anything moving, and healthcare like Hillary has it will become like Bush immigration bill stalled and fillbusted. Then become defeated once again. Universal healthcare is possible, but has to be profit motive involved or elese will not build colitation of 60 senators to pass thru the US senate and get half of the house memebers to approve.
 scotlandforever
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 150
FREE Federalized Health Care
Posted: 4/7/2008 8:43:00 AM
If you had asked me 30 years ago, I would have been opposed to the Gov't providing healthcare for everyone; however, after 27 years in Military Healthcare I do think that if a model were built on the VA and the Military Healthcare System it is doable and I will go one step further in saying that it SHOULD be done. National Healthcare and a National Daycare System would alleviate some of the biggest pressures on the working poor and middle class allowing them to use their resources for things like food; housing; and transportation.
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