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 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 125
Do Animals Have Rights?Page 5 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
It's good to see you back...I kinda missed you. How's "Heterotic"? I heard she left the site... Say Hi to her for me if you see her...I kinda miss her too.

Have a beer...For putting up with me, I dare say you earned it!...
 Dale 09
Joined: 5/21/2009
Msg: 126
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 10/1/2009 6:47:07 AM
Dukky,

Sometimes i agree/disagree with the things you post. but i love your pensient for skillfully saying what you want in mostly a disarmingly satiric way.

 jesser83
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 127
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 10/1/2009 2:58:39 PM
I don't think anything, animal, mineral, or vegitable 'has' rights. Rights are a social concept that people are in sole control of. Do animals 'want' rights? I think the answer to that is yes, since they seem to value having atleast minimal control over their lives. Do they 'deserve' rights? I feel that anything aware of injustice, deserves justice. If something can credibly express its own displeasure, then that something should be given relief.

Hell, if you set up a radio with a tape in it of a crying baby in a public place, eventually someone would come by and shut it off. Everyone knows that the radio isnt actually crying, but we still give it, but more importantly, ourselves, relief.

Anything associated with something else that projects these value onto them (like a person), also deserves them (by my logic) because if the animal, or pet rock, or whatever, is under the control of the person projecting the rights, then as property, or subordinate of that person, the persons rights overlap with the 'thing' or animal. Nobody asks wether or not grass has rights, however, out of courtesy for the proprietor, we extend a certain amount of respect to the grass, and dont let our dogs crap in it. Well, most of us.

So my answer would be yes. Because of 2 reasons. A) animals have the ability to express their own emotions, and B) we as people, who afford each other rights, feel that the things we watch over should be afforded some of the respect we demand for ourselves.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 129
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Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 10/1/2009 7:49:07 PM
I just saw a couple of books written on this subject at this website:

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/faqs/

This page is excerpts from the book: "Introduction to Animal Rights: Your Child or the Dog?" by Gary L. Francione, Distinguished Professor of Law and Nicholas deB. Katzenbach Scholar of Law and Philosophy at Rutgers University School of Law-Newark.

“We cannot justify our domination of animals except by appeal to religious superstition.”

"I would like to propose something a little different: that a sensible and coherent theory of animal rights should focus on just one right for animals.
That is the right not to be treated as the property of humans."

"Recognising animal rights really means accepting that we have a duty
not to treat sentient non-humans as resources. The interesting question is
not whether the cow should be able to sue the farmer for cruel treatment, but
why the cow is there in the first place."

source: One Right For All, NewScientist | 8 October 2005 www.newscientist.com

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/pdf/one_right_for_all-newscientist.pdf
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 130
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 5/18/2015 5:21:28 PM
The problem is that although animals should have rights they cannot stand up for those rights themselves. A tree sloth that lives in the Amazon rain forest cannot do anything to protest a decision people make to destroy its habitat to further economic progress. Animals also cannot consent to the decisions people make that effect them. There is the story of a Native American chief who refused to sell his land to the white man because he felt that the animals, birds, and other creatures living there could not participate in the decision.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 131
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Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 5/18/2015 7:10:07 PM
Do Animals Have Rights?

Oh boy, what a good question...
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 132
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 5/18/2015 7:37:51 PM

Oh boy, what a good question...


Better question, do humans have rights?
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 133
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Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:07:38 PM

Better question, do humans have rights?

Ooh, good one. Really makes you think what the first question really means.



This morning at work, boss wanted to get rid of a bird that's been building a nest inside the corner of the metal awning/gutter, and block it off. Says it's loud in the office. Bothers him.

I never heard that bird from in the office, or even much from the outside.

But I let myself become the one to do it. I was hoping that I could get in there gently, just in case there were any eggs or chicks, and preserve then relocate the nest, even though the parents might not then resume duties. I didn't want anyone else to do it, cause they might not care and would just slaughter the site. I didn't feel good, felt like a jew insisting on being the one to burn my fellows, instead of letting anyone else do it, if it was going to happen inevitably (no I'm not jew). Or something.

Got drive sockets, drill, ladder, and went to work. There was no chicks or eggs. But a lot of nesting material. Got it out, then inserted a shaped piece of sheet metal, and put it back together.

For 9 hours today, that bird hung out visibly, confused and stuck. Sitting on a wire that goes over the parking lot, chattering. Often standing in the middle of the parking lot, right in view of a picture window through which my boss could see him, and did a very curious wing-quivering dance, hopping around in a curious way, chattering and singing. I figured that he was both crying and giving us his special "f-ck you" dance, vowing to slaughter us in the next life.

He was still doing this when we left today.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 134
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 5/19/2015 4:51:12 PM

Ooh, good one. Really makes you think what the first question really means.


I believe the only right anyone has, is to either be a d*ck or not be a d*ck.

Everything else is more so a privilege wrapped up as a right.




This morning at work, boss wanted to get rid of a bird that's been building a nest inside the corner of the metal awning/gutter, and block it off. Says it's loud in the office. Bothers him.


Classic First World Problem irony.




Got drive sockets, drill, ladder, and went to work. There was no chicks or eggs. But a lot of nesting material. Got it out, then inserted a shaped piece of sheet metal, and put it back together.


Where you able to relocate the nest?




Often standing in the middle of the parking lot, right in view of a picture window through which my boss could see him, and did a very curious wing-quivering dance, hopping around in a curious way, chattering and singing. I figured that he was both crying and giving us his special "f-ck you" dance, vowing to slaughter us in the next life.

He was still doing this when we left today.


Do not underestimate birds, depending on the species, they may possible plot revenue.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 135
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Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 5/20/2015 12:18:07 AM

Do not underestimate birds, depending on the species, they may possible plot revenue.

Scrooge McDucks?
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 136
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 5/20/2015 9:03:17 AM

Scrooge McDucks?


More like the: The Crow Paradox

http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2009/07/27/106826971/the-crow-paradox
 Bachelorette.Number1
Joined: 4/18/2013
Msg: 137
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 6/3/2015 9:37:40 PM
Legally no. But if it's endangered, yes.
But if it's bad enough, a human can get into trouble being inhumane to one. "Animal rights" applies to people. Michael Vick.
If a cat kills a mouse, the cat's not going to jail. However, you may have to put your dog down if it attacked and killed another dog, pet.
And you will have to put a dog down if it attacks and kills a child.
The advantages animals get are the ones we individually give them. I would say I would view someone who treated animals cruelly as a pariah devoid of compassion, ethics and/or morals.

Personally I don't want to see an animal suffer. I would act in some fashion to relieve it.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 138
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 6/3/2015 10:35:00 PM
Sapphire77 - In Alabama they do, this was brought about by an AWFUL case of animal cruelty, a dog was beaten and set on fire, the dog lived, but lost his ears.
http://animals.uslegal.com/cruelty-to-animals-an-overview/alabama-cruelty-to-animals-law/

Yes, animals have rights, or at least they should.
 astralman22
Joined: 8/3/2013
Msg: 139
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/3/2015 8:44:43 PM
Seems like the question is directed at something rather than someone.
What I mean is, it seems like we are asking for proof or some sort of reasoning for animals having rights, etc

I think it simply comes down to whether or not we choose for animals to have rights.

Do we want to live on a planet with no animals, just humans?
 Aprilikeswhiteroses
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 140
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/5/2015 4:58:07 PM
^^^
+ 1


Do we want to live on a planet with no animals, just humans?


Food for the thought ^^.!!
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 141
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/5/2015 6:35:10 PM

Do we want to live on a planet with no animals, just humans?


Which is like saying, do you want to swim in a lake with no fish, just cod?

Because humans are animals and the removal of all other living things would quickly mean our own demise.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 142
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/5/2015 9:53:04 PM

Yes, animals have rights, or at least they should.


but in many cases the courts don't go far enough!
IMO, rights to animals should be stratified by species and purpose

domesticated pets (cats, dogs, pigs, etc) should all have rights to be protected against abuse & neglect, and said laws should have substantive punishments attached (such as for dog fighting).

all animals set for slaughter & consumption should be put down quickly & humanely,
a procedure which should be regulated, and those who fail to do so, should be severely penalized.

Experimentation-wise, animals should be used only when there is no option in order to carry out a trial to reach stated objective. Researchers would have to prove necessity of animal experiments and do so by petition.

Exotic animal ownership should be made illegal regardless if the animal is treated well or not; many of these animals end up getting let loose (reticulated pythons) abused, neglected or abandoned and wind up in meager living conditions inside reserves (ie; michael jackson's monkeys & tigers).

ALL primates should have special rights close to those of humans, as many share our traits, some even cry (Mountain Gorillas), and should not be kept as pets or used in experiments. Those who poach & kill these endangered animals should be treated as an equivalent to murder.
 Aprilikeswhiteroses
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 143
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/6/2015 3:51:34 PM
I wonder why we humans are so cruel.!!

How About the BULLFIGHTS, Still nobody has banned them in Spain.!!
How is it possible that some people pay to see a soulless man torturing a bull up to kill him?.Just for fun.!!
How is it possible that some people feel happiness to look at something so horrible as it is to see an animal to suffer until he dies?.

What has happened to our soul, where is it?
Where is our "Rational superiority"?

Saying:......"Man is a Rational Being"......Really??

We all see these things happening and WE DO NOTHING To stop it.!!!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 144
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Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/6/2015 4:43:59 PM
^ That's why some of us enjoy those vids of the bull rampaging into the stands or tearing the matador a new one. Go bull.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 145
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/6/2015 8:41:13 PM

I wonder why we humans are so cruel.!!


Because it is HARD wired in our genome
how do you think we got on top of the food chain?
by killing off anything that got in our way from the moment we started to walk with 2 legs
killing & destroying comes easy for humanity; restraining themselves from doing it is the hard part!


How About the BULLFIGHTS, Still nobody has banned them in Spain.!!


Bullfighting has been going on in Spain since the days of the Romans
Bull fighting is nothing when you compared it to the bloody and gory spectacles they put on back then


How is it possible that some people feel happiness to look at something so horrible as it is to see an animal to suffer until he dies?


Because at heart, mankind is no good!
remember that there are Pple who do this kind of thing to other pple as well!


We all see these things happening and WE DO NOTHING To stop it.!!!


This ^ is another trade-mark of humanity; we don't take action unless its on our front door!

After WW-2, an interesting inscription was noted on the wall of one of concentration camps that was written by a Protestant Minister who was imprisoned. It went something like this:

First they came after the communists & Jews
I was neither so I didn't worry and went about my business

Then they came after the Catholics and the Gypsies
I was neither so I didn't worry and went about my business

Then they came after me
and by then there was nobody left who could do anything for me!

This ^ about sums it all up for us!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 146
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Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:37:21 AM

First they came after the communists & Jews
I was neither so I didn't worry and went about my business

Then they came after the Catholics and the Gypsies
I was neither so I didn't worry and went about my business

Then they came after me
and by then there was nobody left who could do anything for me!

That. Right. There.

Is one of those things that I think about a lot. And how this nature can be fought or changed.
 Aprilikeswhiteroses
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 147
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/7/2015 8:24:04 PM

Is one of those things that I think about a lot. And how this nature can be fought or changed.


Drink, I think it is changing a bit. very slowly, it seems to me that younger people/generations are becoming aware of all these mistakes that we, the older generations are/were committing against ourselves.The selfish or cold-hearted part.
They are also becoming aware that animals are part of us, we cannot live without them, Therefore they need protection.




Astralman22 Msg # 211,
HFX RGB2 Msg # 213
Yule Liquor Msg # 214 & 217
Drinkthesun Msg # 218

Your post / or Msg are the best of this thread, They are educational, and they seem to be wholehearted, I hope that younger people/ Or / younger generation read them and THINK about this, so they can make that important change.!!

Have you all a nice evening.!!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 148
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Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/8/2015 10:28:28 AM
^ Well, it manifests itself in many ways which may seem trivial but still have a cumulative effect on how we operate as a species and society. For example, at your job, when you observe a co-worker being treated very unfairly such that their job is on the line, and you can tell that if you speak up you'd become unpopular and might become a target yourself...do you risk your own job to fight the injustice, or keep your head down?
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 149
Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/11/2015 7:21:44 AM
People always want to try and save all the cute animals- They'll say "aww, how could you hurt a kitten?", but "that lobster, boil him alive because he's so ugly we're going to teach him a lesson."
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 150
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Do Animals Have Rights?
Posted: 7/11/2015 3:24:32 PM
^ Even if subconsciously and unintentionally, that is expecting a life form to kiss up to us, subjugate themselves to us, dance to stay on our good side...in order to get a pass or survive...or it's that we can't recognize an entity's legitimacy if it's appearance is too radical...

...it's the people who seem to do this quite a bit, and do it with other humans around them, which I try to know how to recognize and avoid, for they disgust me.
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