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Show ALL Forums  > Manitoba  > Fetus ... not considered a human being ......      Home login  
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 A Purrrfect Pisces
Joined: 11/12/2006
Msg: 1
Fetus ... not considered a human being ...... Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Reading an article in this morning's paper where a young woman, 8 months pregnant, was shot and killed in the North End on Tuesday allegedly, because she would not open the door when people on the other side requested entry to the home.

There seems to be discussion that the house was a crack house, that the young woman was a prior sex trade worker and so on. All of that is speculation and neither here nor there. They've also not made any arrests at this point.

They were unable to save her 8 month old fetus, a little girl, who already had a name, Kieria Tetley.

The following statement proves yet again our laws need some serious changing.


In Canada, a person cannot be charged with murder in the death of an unborn baby because the Criminal Code does not recognize a fetus as a human being.


Your thoughts?

PP
 A Purrrfect Pisces
Joined: 11/12/2006
Msg: 2
Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:55:16 AM
I hear what you're saying SS. Especially as it relates to the mother's choices as to where she is with child; be they born or unborn. My point tho; if a mother isn't held accountable for where she takes that unborn child, I would have hoped the law, at least, would hold those responsible for the murder accountable for taking that baby's life, as well as the mother's. 8 month's gestation, that was no longer a fetus.

PP

Maybe there's hope yet, I just came across another article, related to this killing which states.

"OTTAWA -- Some MPs are rallying support for a proposed law that would make it a crime to kill or injure an unborn child after a Winnipeg woman, who was eight months' pregnant, was shot to death.

Conservative MP Ken Epp, who recently tabled a private member's bill C-484 called the "Unborn Victims of Crime Act," said the legislation would create a new offence in the Criminal Code. The bill addresses a "huge gap" in law when a violent act is perpetrated against a woman who has chosen to carry the fetus to term, he said. "


 A Purrrfect Pisces
Joined: 11/12/2006
Msg: 3
Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/4/2008 10:14:29 AM
Claire 2282 ...... then at what gestational point would we determine fetus or baby? And hold someone accountable?
PP

what a Pandora's Box ......
 A Purrrfect Pisces
Joined: 11/12/2006
Msg: 4
Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/4/2008 10:30:48 AM
I'm just mulling it all around in my mind. Now if it were on the basis of her body, her choice as it is in abortion, then obviously the mother chose not to end the baby's life given she carried it to term, therefore the killer, once caught, could and should be held accountable for two murders.

PP
 Fort Garry Dark
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 5
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Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/4/2008 8:38:57 PM
A quick search will find a Stats Canada document with 2004 figures.

In Manitoba 80% of pregnancies for girls 15 and under are aborted. The rate remains about 50% for women into their mid 20's.

I really am of two minds when it comes to abortion.

On topic. The woman who was shot definately had problems - She didn't deserve to be murdered though. Kiera Tetley never had a chance.
 SmartAlec
Joined: 2/8/2005
Msg: 6
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Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/4/2008 8:56:33 PM
Wow... this was one of the most interesting reads I have had in a long stretch.... sure beats some of the stupid threads out there! Some very intelligent and well thought out posts and humourous ones too (love that Wer1)
 Fort Garry Dark
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 7
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Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:17:03 PM


Kiera Tetley never had a chance.

Please read post # 16. She like many others from Magnus Ave. had many more chances than average white Canadian or any white immigrant.


Kiara Tetley wasn't born yet. I can't relate her life to the average white Canadian or native Canadian either. (Just what is an average white Canadian?) I think being white or not really isn't much of an issue to her or to me.

Post 16 made some observations. I don't agree with Ron Evans either.

I dislike father slurs:


Inserting fathers who support their children into the equation is a big step in the equation. They can't pay because they're in jail? Good. Support the federal legislation calling for more mandatory jail sentences. Sending these guys to prison for long terms keeps them from impregnating more girls and reduces the unwed, unsupported mother numbers.
 Fort Garry Dark
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 8
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Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:53:20 PM
I am truely blessed in my life. I've never had to sell myself for sex (but I confess I have thought about it - lol)


Kiara Tetley's mama had more chances than you or I
I'm no victim. I've had tons of chances, and have usually made the most of any opening. I think I'm up on the chances statistic here - over Kiara's mum. I haven't been murdered though - at least not yet.

I don't really care if her mama may have had paid-for dentists or an education because she may have had a treaty card. I'm more concernedthat we have quite a few people with disfunction in our city. Having a treaty card doesn't immediately qualify you as disfunctional (IMHO). YMMV

Should we just keep "them" in jail so they can't go "impregnating more girls"?

Really!
 Boomstrike
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 9
Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/11/2008 11:30:31 AM
Canada is a backwards country when it comes to children's rights. The UN convention on the rights of the child clearly states that children have rights before birth, although they don't specify when this occurs.
In Canada, an 8 1/2 month old fetus can be killed, abused, or aborted without any legal repercussion. This is another great example of women's rights taking precedence over any other, including children.
How did we get to this sad state of affairs is the next question that should be asked. Could the same corrupt forces have created other blatant injustice within our society?
 Boomstrike
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 10
Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/11/2008 3:44:59 PM
From the UN convention on the rights of the child.

Bearing in mind that, as indicated in the Declaration of the Rights of the Child, "the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth",

http://www.everychildmatters.gov.uk/_files/589DD6D3A29C929ACB148DB3F13B01E7.pdf
The UN, as well as most rational people, understand that improper treatment of a fetus can result in severe impairment or deformities that will affect that person for the rest of their lives. What's not clear to you about the above UN statement?

Additionally, a woman's "right" to privacy seems to trump the child's right to knowing who both parents are.

Article 8
1. States Parties undertake to respect the right of the child to preserve his or her
identity, including nationality, name and family relations as recognized by law without unlawful interference.
2. Where a child is illegally deprived of some or all of the elements of his or her identity, States Parties shall provide appropriate assistance and protection, with a view to speedily re-establishing his or her identity.


A child has the right to be raised by it's parents, the biological father is one of the parents.

Article 9
1. States Parties shall ensure that a child shall not be separated from his or her parents
against their will, except when competent authorities subject to judicial review determine, in accordance with applicable law and procedures, that such separation is necessary for the best interests of the child. Such determination may be necessary in a particular case such as one involving abuse or neglect of the child by the parents, or one where the parents are living separately and a decision must be made as to the child's place of residence.
2. In any proceedings pursuant to paragraph 1 of the present article, all interested
parties shall be given an opportunity to participate in the proceedings and make their views known.
3. States Parties shall respect the right of the child who is separated from one or both
parents to maintain personal relations and direct contact with both parents on a regular basis, except if it is contrary to the child's best interests.
4. Where such separation results from any action initiated by a State Party, such as the
detention, imprisonment, exile, deportation or death (including death arising from any cause while the person is in the custody of the State) of one or both parents or of the child, that State Party shall, upon request, provide the parents, the child or, if appropriate, another member of the family with the essential information concerning the whereabouts of the absent member(s) of the family unless the provision of the information would be detrimental to the well-being of the child. States Parties shall further ensure that the submission of such a request shall of itself entail no adverse consequences for the person(s) concerned.


There is no state funded protection for children from identity fraud, and no state funded protection for children (and men) from paternity fraud. In fact hospitals will not notify the male that he is not the father, which they absolutely know in some cases due to blood type. Yes, feminism is the root of much injustice towards children and men in Canada.
 Boomstrike
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 11
Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/15/2008 12:31:41 AM
Missdemeanor

If they do not specify WHEN it occurs..........how is that CLEAR???

Do you have a problem with your reading comprehension? I'll quote the UN document again for you.

Bearing in mind that, as indicated in the Declaration of the Rights of the Child, "the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth"

What part of "BEFORE as well as after birth" is confusing for you?
Of course I'm a misogynist, I don't agree with radical feminist misandry and selfishness, so I must be. You obviously think women's interests should be placed above children's and men's. What does that make you?
Maybe you should actually read what's on the website you recommended. It's just a matter of time before abortion, identity fraud, and paternity fraud is dealt with in Canada. What's right and fair will prevail, regardless of what women like you think.
 Boomstrike
Joined: 12/1/2007
Msg: 12
Fetus ... not considered a human being ......
Posted: 1/15/2008 10:31:17 AM
Mis Demeanor,
I never said that the right of the child is clear, the UN leaves the decision of when to apply rights before birth to the individual countries.
This is what I wrote.

Canada is a backwards country when it comes to children's rights. The UN convention on the rights of the child clearly states that children have rights before birth, although they don't specify when this occurs.

They in fact do clearly state that the child has rights before birth. I would say your reading comprehension is lacking. What's more likely is that you just don't like what I wrote so all you can do is pull out the childish insults and try to twist my words to suit your agenda.
Show ALL Forums  > Manitoba  > Fetus ... not considered a human being ......