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 surreygal
Joined: 10/11/2006
Msg: 125
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslimPage 8 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
sorry angel if i sounded harsh. I think i was answering you and everyone else lol. I just got a bit fed up with the muslim bashing when clearly its a cultural issue. I do wish you luck with your decision as its difficult. I would like my son to know his black roots but dont know how to go about that to. I do have some black friends that he spends time with so hopefully that will be enough.

Great comment miz understood.
 diabolikk
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 126
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 7/2/2008 2:35:48 PM
Surreygal 125
What I actually meant is that in Turkey women are relatively better off than any other Muslim country there is.

Made to stay at home is not bad against severe beating, marriage-rape and social humiliation which are common phenomena of female condition, in any Muslim's country social fabric.

I have travelled too, extensively. I love Arab culture. I know Islam rather well.
We will keep big differences on our ideas of what it is but I am happy you are not controlled; I just wish there were more of your strenght.
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 134
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 7/21/2008 3:58:06 AM
just been reading some of the posts on here esp those slagging off the muslims for treating women as second class citizens.
i cant help wondering. have any of you heard of emily pankhurst?
 casandra67
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 138
I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 8/11/2008 6:47:41 AM
Some say the Hijab takes away the persons individuality, some say it is a choice women make for respect. I can only comment from experience. In 2005 I lived in Egypt and didnt wear the Hijab for the first part of my stay. I was harrased and had my bottom pinched often. I was told that if I wore the Hijab when I went out then I would get respect. Hmmm so I am not deserving respect unless I wear Hijab. For my own personal safety and out of fear, I wore a Hijab for the rest of my stay. It was stinking hot and I hated it.
If only I had a $1 for every time I heard a muslim say "its the media putting Muslims in a bad light". Ummm dont think so for its the Muslims doing things that are getting the media attention and also to the one I used to be with, he put Muslims in a bad light all on his own by his lying, deceiving and theivery.
To the comments about Pakistanis, I would have to agree, mine would send hundreds of dollars to his family and leave me with nothing for food, bills etc.
For me, its the arrogance of it all that bothers me most. For people to shout loud and proud that they are the right ones and they are followers of Allah and only they will go to heaven then everytime they do something wrong/evil we are going to point a finger. Arent we? Just if someone shouts I am PERFECT in every way, we will notice they have a crooked nose LOL
 surreygal
Joined: 10/11/2006
Msg: 139
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 8/11/2008 6:57:57 AM
Hi Casandra

My dad use to do the same to my mother and they are both pakistanis. My dad use to send money back home every chance he got. My mum makes him suffer now though funny how times have changed.

I have been to turkey, tunisia and will be going to morocco soon. I do not wear a hijab and will not in any of these countries. I have had no issues when visiting these countries but ive got to say they do think im either turkish or tunisian so leave me alone. The travel agents have told me this is due to the fact that i am not blond with blue eyes. I do not agree with their behaviour infact i think it is vile. If i do not get respect from a man regardless of faith or culture i will show him the door.

To be a good muslim you need to be humble. To run around and tell people that you are perfect will not do you favours in gods eyes. As a muslim if i give money to charity i am suppose to keep it quiet. If i go around and tell everyone how brilliant i am for parting with my money the reward will be lost. There are alot of nations that are arrogant and im sure its worldwide.
 Steve_Sandy
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 140
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 8/11/2008 7:00:39 AM
know some muslims who would never consider marrying a christian, but use them for fun and practice as one put it

the hijab is a cultral thing and not required to become a muslim, not think much of the women who drive in them with a space for the eyes alone, very dangerous....
 dub08
Joined: 4/28/2007
Msg: 142
I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 8/11/2008 11:01:53 AM
Hijab is not an obligation. I lived in the Middle East for 10 years - some women wore it and some didn't. It is up to them - or their families to be more specific.

It is the law in some Arab countries, but not all, that all women be covered no matter what their nationality.

With regards to relationships I have several friends who are married to Muslim men and carry on as normal i.e clothes etc. However other friends married to Muslims suddenly find that their very modern and Westernised boyfriend turns a strict Muslim once married and that's a real eye-opener.
 casandra67
Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 144
I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 8/12/2008 3:07:27 AM
Hi to you to surreygal.
I also have visited Turkey and Tunisia and did not wear the Hijab there with no problem. In Turkey just being a women in iteself was a problem LOL, I recall many times I would be in a que and the men would barge me out of the way like I didnt exist but Tunisia was great.
I was very blonde up until early this year and I have green eyes so perhaps that made things worse but still distressing I couldn't be allowed to be simply me even though I was always dressed with long pants and long sleeves.

I hear the poster that said her friend married a Muslim man that seemed very western but after marriage became very strict. Same thing happend to me, hardly heard the wordAllah prior to marriage then after marriage there was no conversation without Allah or Mohammad and disgust because I wouldnt convert. Easier to get rid of him :-)

I can only speak of my own experience and its not about hating a certain religion but I do hate being preached to by someone that is of worse character than I am.
 music-crazy
Joined: 9/1/2007
Msg: 145
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 8/29/2008 4:09:34 PM
rhianlouise - I think some people are just trying to wind you up by being a bit Controversial.

;-)

G
 boredandbusy33
Joined: 2/25/2008
Msg: 146
I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 8/30/2008 10:27:51 AM
Well, I am a 'devout' Muslim and will tell you that he was clearly abusing you. Keep in mind, a lot of this behavior and other things we see in the media are actually tied to cultural and geographic behaviors that choose to ignore, skew, and 'improve upon' what Islam has said.

For example, Islam says that women must be modest in public (MEN TOO!). It's advised that women walk behind the man. Think about going into an unknown/dangerous situation... "No no, YOU go first. I don't know what's over there". This behavior is simply the man protecting the woman.

There's nothing to say about the hitting. It's just stupid.

The problem is that Islam is very structured around the protection of the family unit. Women are obviously part of that, and some men choose to use it as an excuse to take on possesive/abusive behaviors out of selfishness.
 A/MALEK
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 150
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 9/10/2008 6:40:51 PM
,all muslim men are the same.their own families especially the women live in fear of them,i know i have talked to a lot of the women and their daughters.((muslim men +pakistan.)))
this phrases are from your message Iwanted just to ask you if all english men are the same ,and if Islam =pakistan?????
 PrincessLina
Joined: 8/12/2008
Msg: 151
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 9/10/2008 10:53:55 PM
I have two sisters who are married to muslims - both totally different relationships - one sister is happily married her husband is veryloving etc all he asks is a little respect infront of family members but in all a very good loving husband and father - the other well a totally different kettle of fish - that sister has to wear the black outfit to cover her all over when she is out - plus she isnt allowed to go anywhere without him, she isnt allowed to contact her family she even rings me when he is not at home. One time he even told me not to talk to my sister as I was Hindu and she has now converted to muslim - VERY VERY CONTROLLING!!! I know me personally could NEVER ever stand for being treated like that - I am also not a practicing Hindu and only now date white men:)
 PrincessLina
Joined: 8/12/2008
Msg: 158
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/10/2008 6:14:37 AM
THIS MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 PrincessLina
Joined: 8/12/2008
Msg: 182
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/12/2008 2:37:12 AM
POSTS 188 & 191 Here Here!!!. I basically think allowing to have more than one wife is enough for me!! I can see slowly how one of my sister's has been corrupted by the muslim man she married, slowly but surely she has turned from a very strong independant woman to nothing but a house slave, no interactions with anyone but her youngest son and her husband..she is no longer allowed to communicate with her eldest daughter and son due to them being too westernised... yet she wants the freedom again like she used to have to make her own decisions but is too scared to leave him .. even though she legally under british law is not married to him as the muslim wedding ceremony is not recognised. I think all he wanted was a right to stay in the UK and now she has destroyed her life cuz of him..Her choice as some would say.. but the manipulation was there as in the beginning of their relationship he was all sweet and loving but daily grows more and more controlling.... ok enough venting....
 surreygal
Joined: 10/11/2006
Msg: 183
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/12/2008 9:15:43 AM
I am sorry about your sister Princess but i would like to indicate that this is not just a muslim problem. I went through exactly the same with my ex and he was not a muslim. When you have to call him to ask what kind of mop to buy you know there is problems there!!! I have friends who are muslim that have gone back home and go married. All their husbands wanted was a visa. I have other friends who have brought men over and they have worked hard to support themselves. There is good and bad in any religion colour or greed if you cant accept that then you need to look at yourself.
 PrincessLina
Joined: 8/12/2008
Msg: 186
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/12/2008 12:30:43 PM

I am sorry about your sister Princess but i would like to indicate that this is not just a muslim problem.
Maybe it is maybe it isnt but I come from a large Hindu family ok mum was very religious and the rest of the family while living here in the UK (as we arrived in 1972 from Uganda) have adjusted to the country that we live in.. although most of the older brothers and sisters practice our Hindu religion/culture in their own homes we are pretty much open and believe live and let live.. But for this sisters hubby to turn around and say to me "Dont call here again we dont speak to Hindus, and dont bring your American boyfriend here to meet your sister as we dont want to mix with the whites!" (that was my ex bf may i add lol), and for him to say to her "You can no longer talk to your older son and daughter as they are not Muslims they are B****rds!" Is that right??
 PrincessLina
Joined: 8/12/2008
Msg: 196
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/13/2008 7:48:41 AM
NO Santa cant be alive and kicking as he is stuck up my chimney since last year and now i dont hear any noises.. :)
 surreygal
Joined: 10/11/2006
Msg: 197
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/13/2008 8:51:42 AM
Princess like i said it could happen in any race, colour or greed. Clearly your brother in law has issues that he would have had regardless of his religion. I can show you examples of controlling muslim men but also non controlling men. I have friends that are christian, catholic (went to a catholic school), hindu, jewish, muslim. I have integrated into this country as have my parents so i dont agree with peoples perceptions of ALL muslims NOT integrating as this is not true. Everyday that i go on a train into london i wonder if something may happen to me. It is not just non muslims that think this. I do not agree with extreme views of any religion and believe people should get on regardless of faith or colour. Your problems are with your brother in law Princess not the whole of the muslim world please take that into account.
 PrincessLina
Joined: 8/12/2008
Msg: 200
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/13/2008 12:26:19 PM
Princess like i said it could happen in any race, colour or greed. Clearly your brother in law has issues that he would have had regardless of his religion. I can show you examples of controlling muslim men but also non controlling men. I have friends that are christian, catholic (went to a catholic school), hindu, jewish, muslim. I have integrated into this country as have my parents so i dont agree with peoples perceptions of ALL muslims NOT integrating as this is not true. Everyday that i go on a train into london i wonder if something may happen to me. It is not just non muslims that think this. I do not agree with extreme views of any religion and believe people should get on regardless of faith or colour. Your problems are with your brother in law Princess not the whole of the muslim world please take that into account.

Im sorry i wasnt implying that ALL muslims are like this as I have mentioned in another posting that another of my sisters is also married to a muslim and they are totally different to this one. I personaly have no problems with anyone and their faiths i tend to live and let live.. untill the preach to me .. which funny enough alot of muslim men have done and tried to convert me which is where I draw the line.. it just seems so funny how I have never ever been preached by anyone of any other religion to convert. Yes I agreed have experienced only seen the bad side of the muslim culture and yes i agree maybe I am only seeing one viewpoint but you got to face it.. it comes up alot on the media and in my real life too. Furthermore.. yes maybe my brother in law has other issues .. but then why does he allways keep quoting his Quoran everytime .. that only makes me and other believe that is what is written in their holy book and is also part of their religion!! either that or he is abusing the muslim religion for his own prejudices
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 221
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 1/1/2009 12:19:27 AM
Why did you feel the need to say all that twice???

Statistics are all very well but they need the proper explanations to back them up and give them meaning.

for example in one line you said it had gone up to 131 from 85 the previous year. but without say the previous 10 years results you cant possibly prove that trend. Reported incidences and actual incidences are 2 different things. How do you know the system for reporting such things hasnt been better advertised or improved accounting for the rise???

Most statistics are useless without approriate source info and interpretation to go with it. If you dont believe me just look at how politics bend statistics to make themselves look great!!!
 diabolikk
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 227
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/13/2009 5:09:41 AM
mister meena, my experience was roughly similar, only longer lasting. I did 3 years with this great woman but the price I would have had to "pay" was my conversion to Islam to marry her and that, I could not do expecially after studying the religion to know it to see if I could actually do it.
I fough long and hard, I became an expert on it, I even travelled her country 3 times to know it better. My goodwill was defeated again and again by reality.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 232
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/13/2009 10:35:39 AM

I note the complete silence from the feminists, the anti racist league type persons,


Well I'd probably consider myself to be in both those categories!
Except that I dislike all religions equally, and this thread is very specifically aimed at only one.
I see nothing logical in the practices of christianity or judaism either, just because they no longer follow the religion to the letter of the law, doesn't make them right, There are plenty of patriarchal, misogynistic passages in the bible too, and violence.
And I don't want to bore people with another rant.
I would just be much happier if I saw 'equal opportunity' religion bashing threads,
and I don't understand the tunnel vision that only seems to focus on 'outside' religions.

Living by the rules of primitive people, 1400, or 2000, or 5000 years ago makes no sense to me, in 2009.
I make no apologies on their behalf.

But picking on just one, does smack of 'tribalism': "We're 'right', You're 'wrong'"
People who live in glass houses.....etc.

When we get rid of ours, we will be in a better position to criticise others. IMO

Until then, it's just one clown, telling another clown he looks silly...
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 239
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/13/2009 5:42:21 PM
There's nothing logical about religion.
Whether its Islam, Christianity, or Judaism
All three stem from the old testament, same prophets, same basic laws.
Here are some quotes from our own religion, from Deuteronomy 20:
1When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the LORD thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

2And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people,

3And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;

4For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.

5And the officers shall speak unto the people, saying, What man is there that hath built a new house, and hath not dedicated it? let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man dedicate it.

6And what man is he that hath planted a vineyard, and hath not yet eaten of it? let him also go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man eat of it.

7And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her.

8And the officers shall speak further unto the people, and they shall say, What man is there that is fearful and fainthearted? let him go and return unto his house, lest his brethren's heart faint as well as his heart.

9And it shall be, when the officers have made an end of speaking unto the people that they shall make captains of the armies to lead the people.

10When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

11And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

12And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

13And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

15Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

18That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

19When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:

20Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.

This is in "our" (Not mine though) religions today. These passages are still in your christian bible.
I have highlighted the worst and most violent bits from the above. I suggest you stop reading the Quran and start reading the bible. It is full of violence. The same "god" tells you to do this.
How are 'we' better?
Christianity is killing thousands of people by spreading AIDS, by forbidding the use of contraceptives in countries in Africa where 25% of the population are infected, The pope would rather they died than commit a 'sin'.
-very civilised ?
How civilised are religions that forbid the people who practise it from ever indulging in sex?
How civilised are religions that have orders of monks and nuns who are not only forbidden from ever having sex, they are forbidden to speak?
All these books and rules come from at least 1400 years ago (Islam)
And approx 5000 years ago (Old Testament)
To pretend that any one of them is saner or more rational is delusional.
 Warrencraig
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 240
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/13/2009 7:53:11 PM

I know if one psycho PMT nutter was condemning me to death or prison on her word id really want as many others as possible to have to corroborate her word !

If you consider that there are certain crimes in this country that if a woman commits at a time when she has PMT it is actually accepted as a defence,


Surely then if PMT is an accepted defence for certain crimes then that says they cannot be mentally held responsible for their actions??? Ie they are insane???

Surely by that reasoning all woman with a tendency to potentially violent behaviour when suffering PMT should be locked up in secure hospitals under the mental health act??? reason: protection of the public!!

Just as a schizophrenic who had regular violent psychotic episodes would be detained....
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 243
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I had a relationship with someone who was a muslim
Posted: 11/14/2009 3:11:05 AM

Jo Van...

I have no idea what messages 246 and 253 have gotta do with the question raised in the OP? Anyone would think you're attemtping to hijack the thread by promoting your view that religions do not have logic?! Surely, you would be better off starting a new thread, as the topic of this thread is clearly pointed out in the OP...

Well I'm sorry if you can't see the connection.
The point I was trying to make, is that it is not just Islam which has a patriarchal and misogynistic attitude to women, and that all three Abrahamic faiths embrace the notion of 'ownership' of the wife.
For example until 1991, it was not a crime to rape your wife in this country, and there are still (I think) some 14 or 15 States in the USA, where this is not considered a crime.
These are christian laws, and so I was pointing out how focusing purely on Islam seemed a little 'blinkered'
From:
http://www.rjerrard.co.uk/law/articles/rape.htm


On the 23 October 1991 The Law Lords unanimously swept away the 250 - year - notion that women agree to sexual intercourse on marriage and cannot retract that consent. See Regina v R (Rape: Marital Exemption) The Times, 24 October 1991; (1992) Cr.App.R. 216 .
The principle established by Chief Justice Hale in 1736 has finally been laid to rest. The rule can be traced back beyond Hale to St Augustine and possible before him. Sir Matthew Hale in his History of the Pleas of the Crown wrote: "But the husband cannot be guilty of Rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife, for by their mutual matrimonial consent and contract the wife hath given herself up in this kind unto her husband which she cannot retract."

For many years after the publication of Hale's work there appears to have been no substantive challenge until R v Clarke [1949] 2 ALL E.R.448.


Please let me know if you are still struggling to understand these difficult concepts, and I will try to help further.
HTH?
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