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 IncognitoGuido
Joined: 10/19/2007
Msg: 53
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?Page 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

Ok, but how far, and to what expense, like most everything, there has got to be a capper on it, at some point, otherwise, there will not be enough money to go around for everyone.

Why do you think that they have salary caps in the CFL?

Well!

Think about that one.


Ok, I seldom do as I am told, but I thought about "that one there" and the only thing that came to mind was..
 kevbear
Joined: 6/20/2007
Msg: 55
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/27/2008 5:00:13 PM
oh boy! you don't know much ,do you? the CFL as well as the NHL do have salary caps ,but they are raised every 1 or 2 years.so your comparison does not make sense,just reinforces my stance,amongst others.
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 56
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/27/2008 5:46:45 PM
I just want to be clear that we will not accept a raise in Canadian Tire dollars. (I read an interesting post about this type of money somewhere else today and then I heard all this cracking - like bones snapping.)
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 58
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/27/2008 6:46:45 PM
Some of my students will graduate this year. They will learn a trade and in almost a year be making as much as me if not more. Many tell me they wont go into teaching because - no offense - you guys dont make enough money. On the other hand, I know of a few young people going into education because it is something they really want to do.
 HamNPineapple
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 60
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/27/2008 9:46:23 PM
hey, here is an idea, let's give teachers what you would pay for child care... what is that? $5 per hour... so .. let's multiply that by 30 students.... times a 6 hour day, (not counting the kids that get dropped off at 7, and don't want to leave school til, 4;30 or 5, because there is noone home for them). So where are we now? Each teacher should get just $900 a day then. Oh, yes, add the money the teacher spends out of their own pocket for kids snacks, (yes, kids have no snack or lunch all day) and add pencils (I know one teacher that goes though at least one dozen a day.

Next add the 5 years of university, school loans, etc... the union dues, taxes, and yes, they do NOT get paid for the 2 months off in the summer... so many work other jobs, like respite care.

Don't forget, nowadays, we have inclusioin... That means ALL students are in one room. Most times without an aide or helper. So the special education children, deaf kids, kids with downs syndrome, autism, ADD, ADHD, ESL and kids who just need someone to assist them one on one, are all part of that 30.

Oh, did I mention, with cutbacks, many kids have to share textbooks, and most classroom libraries are paid for by the teacher?

How many of YOU can look after 10 eleven year olds for a couple hours, much less all day, much less try to teach them.. Did I mention the average classroom has children that can read from a grade 2 level to a grade 9 level... and the teachers have to meet each of their needs.

Have I told you about the kids that are all broke up, because their parents are fighing, or one of them overdosed last night? or that they couldn't do any homework, because they had to babysit a sibling?

Once professional football teams have to have bake sales to buy team uniforms, and large companies donate to schools, I would NOT complain about what teachers are getting paid..

If you have an issue with what I have to say... I will tell you what, I know at least ONE teacher who would LOVE to have you in her classroom for a day, and have a little taste of the REAL world...
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 62
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/28/2008 5:38:02 PM

It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do--baby sit!


Well, if that's what they are suppose to be doing, can I fire one or two and hire the 12 year old down the street who is doing a hell of lot better job than some of the older sitters you are suggesting Mikey????? Can I? Can I?


IN your personal opinion what is it worth to have an educated person teach your (clearly hypothetical) children?


And I don't want an EDUCATED person teaching my child. I want an INTELLIGENT person to teach my child. There is a difference which many here forget, don't know, don't understand. There is no factory that pukes out teachers when we want. And just like some people should'nt be parents (but are) there are people out that have more than enough schooling but should not come within a 100 feet of a child let alone stand in front of 40 kids in a classroom.
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 64
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/28/2008 7:17:39 PM
Walts - I understand what you are saying about intelligent people teaching children. Most people in the system are intelligent, as well as educated. We are not babysitters and if we were we would be better paid as a previous poster pointed out.

Remember the adage: You get what you pay for. Think about it.
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 67
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 1/28/2008 8:33:50 PM
Doc Sage - Your post is a bit ambiguous. It seems to me we should be payed more by the way you describe our jobs, but maybe you are just trying to explain why you think teachers are overpaid, which isn't the case.

I had what is like a kodak moment at work today. One of my students told me I am the "best teacher." Actually, she is not my student. We are connected through extracurricular activities. In a job in which we are not paid enough, this was a moment that made up for the lack of money. For many of us, it is the special moments that keep us going.
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 69
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/14/2009 5:40:26 PM
Based on personal experience, it takes 5-6 years of post-secondary education to become a teacher. It is a choice and is a lifestyle, because of the countless hours most teachers spend on unpaid overtime. Granted some don't. So - some people want to punish the good for the few rotten apples in the profession. What would a competency test entail?

I think the teacher who advised the above poster to read with his/her child daily was trying to be helpful. Children who come from homes where reading is enjoyed learn to read faster and take greater pleasure in doing so.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 70
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/14/2009 5:52:48 PM

Granted some don't. So - some people want to punish the good for the few rotten apples in the profession.


Well, as an union member,,,maybe suggest you all start getting paid accordingly. Of course as an union you don't like those competency "type" tests,,,do you????? Do you think we should reward ALL of your "group" because of the good ones that are out there????? That's one of the problems when you belong to a union,,,you are always lumped in with the others of your group. You as group,,,better figure that one out.



Based on personal experience, it takes 5-6 years of post-secondary education to become a teacher


Wrong wording,,,and wrong beliefs. Because you go to school does NOT mean you are a teacher. What it means is that you can be HIRED as a teacher. A big freaking difference that more and more do NOT understand. Again,,,the belief that because you go to school,,,get a form of education,,,get hired,,, you DESERVE a set rate on the pay scale. Unbelievable,,,but that's how a lot of people do think now.
 Ticketoride
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 71
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/14/2009 6:03:37 PM
That's one of the problems when you belong to a union,,,you are always lumped in with the others of your group.

Yup. The Thread might have been better worded: "Should a Teacher's Wage Rates be frozen?"
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 72
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/14/2009 7:21:57 PM
Wrong wording,,,and wrong beliefs. Because you go to school does NOT mean you are a teacher. What it means is that you can be HIRED as a teacher. A big freaking difference that more and more do NOT understand. Again,,,the belief that because you go to school,,,get a form of education,,,get hired,,, you DESERVE a set rate on the pay scale. Unbelievable,,,but that's how a lot of people do think now


er . . . relax and take a few deep breathes. Yes, I meant professionally in the province of British Columbia. I understand that we are all teachers. At least, I think that is what you are getting at.

The reasons teachers' wages should not be frozen go far beyond the specialized post-secondary knowledge they have acquired. Although, I think you would be very uncomfortable having a Doctor operate on you who has not gone to university.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 74
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/15/2009 2:38:42 PM

Typically you would think an educator would love to learn more about these children they are self diagnosing, and educate themselves as to WHY these students are acting out in class or elsewhere. If not to make their own life in the classroom easier, at the very least to HELP the child in question.


Off topic obviously,,,but right now the medical profession isn't even on board with ADHD and the likes. And if a parent "listens" to someone other than someone in the medical field concerning a child's "health" and what you are putting in their systems,,,I would first look at the parent,,,and question them.

I personally have never had this happen to my child,,,,,and have never heard of this before, either thru the media or talking with others.


I've heard many Teachers, Counselors and Administration,


I have to ask,,,,,WHERE did YOU "hear" this,,,and define "many"????????
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 76
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/15/2009 3:27:59 PM
^^^^^ Why then wouldn't YOU ask the people that you know told YOU or others to look at this drug???? Seems a little bit weird that you are asking this question here,,,when you knew which people were giving this advice. And since you already had an "in" when YOU worked at a Secondary School,,,I am sure you had the opportunity to know which people to go forward to and ask over and above the ones in the school it's self.
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 77
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/15/2009 5:12:09 PM

I've heard many Teachers, Counselors and Administration, telling parents their child needs to go on Ritalin. I would like to know how they can make such a request without a proper Doctor's diagnosis as to WHY the child needs to take Ritalin. Their explanation is, Bad Behavior, Disrupting the classroom, Hyperactivity and an inability to Focus.


I have not heard any educators make such recommendations. It is simply not their place. An educator may suggest that you have your child accessed for ADD with or without hyperactivity by a reputable Doctor. Children's Hospital is meant to be very good, but then there are many alternatives besides ritalin. People seem to assume that the students who show signs of having ADD with or without hyperactivity are always the bad ones. You may wish to rethink this. You may also want to rethink what bad really is.
 You go first
Joined: 5/1/2008
Msg: 79
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/15/2009 6:20:27 PM
As someone who spent a lot of time volunteering in my son's classes K thru 7, I saw first hand the dedication of his teachers and absolutely feel they are earning their wages.

Maybe we were just lucky, but at his school every one of the teachers, SEA's and other support staff were seriously involved in the kids' education, during and after-hours. They have to cram a huge curriculum into only so many weeks, as well as having new stuff added every year. Then they have to be on the lookout for kids with undiagnosed learning disabilities, kids who may be at risk for domestic issues, deal with Individual Education Plans for the identified kids and the behaviour kids without smacking the snot out of them.

In the 'olden days' when I was in school, there were no special needs kids integrated. If a kid misbehaved, they got the strap or got sent to the Principal's office for the day. These are the kids that dropped out as soon as they legally could. Now - especially with the inner city schools - the teachers now have to be ESL specialists and deal with exceptionally challenged students with a minimum of aid. How many parents have spent a full day in a class with a teacher to see what really goes on? Would YOU spend 6 hours trapped in a room with 20, 22, 25 kids trying to keep them on task?

The poster's teacher friend who spent the whole day on the cell phone should be fired for cause. Unfortunately, the kids won't know to say anything and, unless one of the parents takes the initiative to get off their ass and participate, she'll get away with it. How sad for those kids.
 WesternWildRose
Joined: 9/15/2008
Msg: 81
view profile
History
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/17/2009 1:30:23 AM
I still have a dispute with the wage figure being tossed about here.

here is my read on it... Lets do the math here people. The figure is probably closer to $22-24/hr after taxes, union dues, medical etc,
multiply this by120hrs/mth and @9mths of work there is no pay for Easter Break,Sumer Break,xmas Breakthat is @12weeks off with no pay .

$22-24 ----120hrs a mth----9mths =$23,760-25,920 a year.

Could you afford to be a teacher?

Most of the teachers that I know of pay for the extra supplies in the classroom ,they put in more than their required 40 hrs a week,they volunteer their time for a lot of extra -curicular activities and coaching.
My kids teachers are at the school at 8am for the students who want more tutoring.

I know my kids teachers are earning every cent of their salary...and deserve more.

I would really love to see less administrators and consultants at the school district...that is wasteful...their salaries should go back into the system before cutting in the classrooms.

as for what I would pay a babysitter...not had to pay for one in a 5 years...but when I did..it was @18/hr...I have 3 kids...and that is what we paid... ya that is low ball figure.. $6/hr/kid.

No a Teacher's wage rate should not be frozen.
We talk about our children being the future...and then we complain about how much their educators are being paid?...too funny.
We have to invest in our kids education if we want to reap the benefits in the future.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 85
view profile
History
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 11/29/2009 1:20:14 AM
I think that teachers should get paid well but there should be a better scale based on where they teach. A friend of mine is a grade 3 teacher with a masters degree and has been teaching grade 3 for years. She shows up at 8 am and is out by 3 pm at the latest and gets paid the same as another friend with the same education teaching high school humanities. The work loads for the two are massively different. It makes no sense that they get paid the same.
 TheAngelGabriel
Joined: 4/27/2008
Msg: 86
view profile
History
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 12/5/2009 12:46:07 AM
Just remember, that 8 hours a day they are getting paid for is being spent with your children.

Think about it carefully.

Oh, and until you've attempted to teach, you really can't appreciate the dedication, effort and skill required to be a teacher.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 87
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/22/2011 8:02:34 PM

a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids! WHAT A DEAL!!!!


You would let some of these people(teachers) babysit your kids????? And are you calling what they supposedly "teach" in some classes an "education"?????? The system has failed our students and educators(those that actually know how to teach and educate). The unions themselves clump them all together, and because ALL of them are members, they ALL will be painted with the same brush.
More than enough times the ones that are good and go against the union are blackballed by the pieces of crap that hide behind the label "teacher". I know too many cases where good people(and teachers) walk away from the profession, if for any reason, the union(and the shiat they protect) here in BC. It's a shame, but they still are involved with children coaching, teaching privately,etc, without union "rules" which,again, hide the true crap.
 Herts_Girl
Joined: 2/10/2011
Msg: 88
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 2/25/2011 11:39:55 AM
No they should not be frozen. Should yours????

Just get them in the classroom more often teaching the necessitities instead of going for a country stroll out in the park or watching Harry Potter on school time.

Sad to think that the children have been in the school system since age 5 and by the age of 18 are still not qualified to earn a living or some even spell, do simple math or put a sentence together without using the word "like".

Bring back apprenticeships and get the children qualified in something by 18. There are getting to be more families unable to pay huge post-secondary education bills and by the time that they are finished , they still can't find a job.
 Theloniouss
Joined: 12/12/2010
Msg: 89
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 3/4/2011 2:04:13 AM
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?

No.

Though I will say the way in which teachers are compensated needs to change. I recall hearing about an article out of LA, rating the effectiveness of teachers, and the results did not represent experience or years of education as determining factors (both very commonly used in wage allocation). How do you go about implementing a merit pay system for teachers, which is equitable — I've no clue, but it would probably help.

Further, our system of Education needs to change. One only needs to look into Kipp schools or see the TED talk with Sir Ken Robinson, to get an inkling of some of the changes that are possible (Kipp for the more traditional, desk in rows types, and Sir Ken for the more alternative thinkers/big idea types). And those are two examples of some of the ideas out there, others, such as Montessori, Reggio Emilia, Waldorf, and I've even heard tell of an Existential School in England; these are all possibly great educational options for children ... The point is there is many ideas out there, and they are not all going to work for every community, family, and student. Our system is beginning to fail us, from the bottom up and the top down (let's face it, a degree just doesn't hold the same weight as it once did).

Regardless of the way in which we choose to structure our compulsory education system, we should all be crossing our fingers that we can figure it out quickly before private schools take off. If Canada follows the English down that road, which completely stifles class mobility, argh, I'd be pissed. And you should be too. (not to say that parents should not have the option for private schools, rather, government funded schools should be of an equal quality in education)

On a side note — and I only read the first page of this topic, so I have no idea about all the different ways in which this discussion has swayed — As someone who fell through the cracks of our education system, and is now a teacher, most great teachers are tireless in their efforts to help their students achieve, where an average teacher believes they are doing enough.

I could go on about the importance of strong administration, PD, assessment, developmental approaches, diagnostic approaches, not to mention 21st century skills, and other such buzz words ... but really, the only thing that matters is that kids learn to read good and stuff, like really
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 90
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 3/5/2011 12:00:30 AM
Yep. They should be frozen. Teachers need to understand that they are fortunate in this dumb world and teach with a frenzy and commitment to excellence. They are paid more than enough in my part of Canada. Oh and they have benefits and pension plans and they are needing a big reality check. A big one. I almost cry at their insensitivities to most of the disappearing working class parents and their children in Canada, at least. And..on the other hand parents need to understand that discipline and guiding their children is NOT the teacher's job. Its a two handed prong and both parties better understand that this is their world and they better participate beyond their respective, singular realities.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 91
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 3/5/2011 12:05:59 AM
Oh...and both parents and teachers need to watch very carefully the creeps who govern us and want nothing less than no dollars being spent on education. Don't believe it? Watch their ignorant and black ways. There is such deception and such denial of the ugliness and awfulness we as a society can and will descend to...eventually.
 fineworkz
Joined: 2/27/2009
Msg: 92
Should teachers' wage rates be frozen?
Posted: 6/11/2011 6:13:51 PM
Well not really sure,however I was astonished to learn that a teachers make more then I do,and I Do have the most dangerous job in the world. With todays classes being so big, there really is little time for my child...Thus the private school, Icertainly feel that most teachers do not have to be accountable for minimal education produced,since a child can miss a 100 days/yr not really learn anything, and up to the next grade....A very good failing system I believe......yes frozen might be a good thing with benefits coming to the teachers with a more sucessful class....The perhaps the teachers all have great kids...lol just a thought.
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