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Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 407
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The New Season Of LOSTPage 25 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)
bigger questions...

why did Claire lose her tan in her last scene on the island..

why didn't Jack chant over the water before passing the "goblet" to Hurley...

why wasn't Vincent in the Church!!! many questions ;)

...but still...

tears and withdrawal from a fantastical world and people that I for one will miss.
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 408
The New Season Of LOST
Posted: 5/26/2010 7:11:28 AM
^^^I took it to mean that the island was real and some of the events were, but various characters died off in different times and the sideflash was the actual way station or purgatory as an answer to how their lives turned out (i.e. Desmond in real life not a fan of Charles but married to Penny - in the sideflash not knowing Penny but being very close to Charles..and Eloise saying right to him "you got what you wanted, you are Charles' right hand man/you're not ready yet"), and a place to find each other to celebrate life and move on to the next place as Christian said. I felt Ben sitting outside may have been his way of saying he wasn't totally at peace with the events of his death, and didn't want to "let go" yet.

I also think to some extent the side flash was mostly Jack's redemption of his life and the characters were backdrop for it as they were connections he made. In a way I think it all was orchestrated internally for him in order to let go himself (the phrase Rose, Desmond and even his own character repeated in season 6).

I figured some made it off the plane, some never did, some were rescued and died later of natural causes or otherwise, and some never died or died but weren't ready to move on from what happened.
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 409
The New Season Of LOST
Posted: 5/26/2010 9:59:08 AM
I just watched it again on demand, and I get it. If you get a chance to do so, I recommend it but use this mindset when you watch it:

Think of Jack as the hero - even (or especially) to himself. Then realize that throughout the show he felt he was responsible for a lot of what went on around him. Now, if he dies (try not to rationlize when he died but the fact that he does at some point) and needs to get closure on all these things he felt he caused or could fix, or could help with to give others a better chance, imagine what his conscience would have to do in order for him to feel free enough to pass on with no regrets.

Now watch the sideflash (and remember everything up to the finale from the plane arriving safely) - it's all in the context of who Jack knew, what Jack hoped for, and what he felt he caused or could fix (being a surgeon and wanting to fix John emotionally and physically - and the weird rate at whick John recovered when he did, feeling like he caused Juliette's death and James' grief and wanting to repair it, hearing stories about Hugo's obsession with bad luck and wanting better for him, wishing he and his ex wife had a better relationship and wanting a child, wishing he knew Ben in a different way than the way he encountered him on the island, wishing he and Kate were together). Now imagine those characters coming together to help him get that closure as his collective conscience. It does make sense. It was his view of the people he knew from the island experience and what he wanted for them based on his own God complex (as Sawyer mentioned at one point).

It makes sense that once these characters connect and "remember" everything, they find the ones who didn't yet catch on sort of amusing they aren't really there, but figments of Jack's world. It makes sense that Jack wants not only to erase the plane coming down but it has to be right once he puts the plan in motion whether or not it actually happens for him to be able to live with himself.

Also, some of the ending experience from the island lines up with what he feels he needs to do for everyone else to be happy, rescued, saved, whatever. I feel that when he dies at the end of the episode, it's not his physical being but his essence feeling that on the island (probably figuratively) he did what he needed to do to make things right. The ending scene is also his conscience trying to line things up neatly; his father's body being found which bothered him from season one when the coffin was tossed from the plane (Desmond calling to let him know, which would only make sense in Jack's head), and then his father actually talking to him at the end.

At what time the island went from a real experience to an imaginary one is another story - but I do think that some of the storyline was real and some was based on survivors who died, and a lot of what we watched especially from season 3 may have been from a perspective rather than concrete. You'd have to take the theory they ended this with and go back and watch the storyline from a different mindset.

For all we know - from "The Looking Glass" in season 3, Jack drank himself to death on the floor of that apartment after the rescue from the guilt of the survivors he left, and from there it was all dreams or hallucinations about what he wanted to do about it while he lived off the bottle in the end. That's really about the time that the show went wonky (and some viewers lost faith in it because it got unrealistic). If it's Jack's imagination - it jives more. I noticed that when Jack has his epiphany at the coffin in the church, there are no scenes beyond the rescue in season 3 except for Kate's image, which was obviously important to his life.

Finally him dying where he woke up from the crash makes sense if it was a scene that resonated with him; the dog being there when he woke up, the bamboo, etc - were probably just recreated in his imagination as he passed because it's where he wanted to be or where he felt his journey really started.
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 412
The New Season Of LOST
Posted: 5/26/2010 11:55:55 AM

Come on! lol... you can totally like something without having to think it's really terrific. I love velveeta shells and cheese, but I don't pretend it's not crap.

The only way that's comparable is if you complained about it while you ate it, and before and after you prepared it. Eventually you have to expect someone to ask you why you'd continue to keep it in your diet.

I've heard people say they know something's bad but they love it anyway, but I've never experienced someone who loved something they complained about continuously and yet also never stopped doing (outside dysfunctional romantic relationships, that is).
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 414
The New Season Of LOST
Posted: 5/26/2010 1:39:13 PM
And, okay, so you didn't like my velveeta shells and cheese comparison, but you entirely missed the point. I have loved movies and TV that were pure, utter garbage for whatever reason. But I won't pretend these are/were,in any way good quality simply because I like it.

I get your point, I just find it unusual in the way of human nature. Heck I like Millionaire Matchmaker and the Bachelorette. Brain stir fry? Absolutely. But I can't see watching it and saying it's crap - because if I personally saw it as crap I then wouldn't watch it. There is no third option for me unless I'm tied to a chair with a gun to my head and I have no choice. I just don't watch things I don't like regardless of the education/relevance of the content. If something dissapoints me I don't care how bad it gets from there, I press the stop button and/or change the channel.
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 416
The New Season Of LOST
Posted: 5/27/2010 9:38:36 AM
^^Well I think the island was real - but at some point changed from what was happening to what Jack thought was happening, needed to happen, etc. Desmond's little declaration to Jack on the way into the hole heading to the light (we can all go to a place where none of this matters anymore) made me wonder how much of the island timeline in season 6 was actually happening, and then I thought back to all that happened after the freighter arrived and realized that's when the show went from more realistic to sort of less than grounded (time travel, the pendulum - Eloise and Charles and formula of everyone needing to be on the plane at once to get back, Daniel and his time travel, Ben and others showing up in LA with this knowledge of where everyone was and what they were doing, Jacob appearing and becoming a real character to some extent, etc).

What if they were rescued but died naturally - for all we know that scene Jack was in at the end was 100 years later, what with Christian and his "there is no now, here - some died before you some long after...." speech. Some of those in that church could have died of old age based on that statement. It's possible that Jack just went bonkers in season three, everyone sort of avoided him and he either jumped off that bridge or killed himself slowly with prescription drugs and booze. The following three seasons could have been hallucinations based on who and what Jack knew up until the rescue that plaged his soul long after his body was gone.

You're right - if everyone else's memories go past season 3, and they are all part of Jack's conscience or imagination, then it doesn't matter - because they themselves are a figment so naturally their memories would continue up until the present.

Still, we all take our own interpretations from it - but it's kinda interesting enough to consider, no?
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 418
The New Season Of LOST
Posted: 5/27/2010 12:56:12 PM

So, you are saying that Millionaire Matchmaker and Bachelorette are not crap, but good tv? As in quality tv? I'm not sure I get that.

If it wasn't good TV to me (entertaining and I want to see it) then I wouldn't be interested in it. Does it qualify for MENSA study? No - but for me TV is often a thing I like to do when I don't want to think.

I never said Lost wasn't amusing or entertaining in some ways. Bad tv is often entertaining for reasons I still don't understand... chalk it up to the human condition, I suppose. But it certainly can't be considered quality writing for something so POORLY thought out. That's the point I'm trying to make.

I guess I can't tell the difference between you realizing it's not good writing (sure it's not the best writing but I still love it!!) and not being happy with the show. Your posts come across as just not liking the show - unless someone asks if you do to which you respond saying you do. It's just the context of your contributions.

And, it's like when you're reading a book and you're halfway through and it's been really interesting so far. It starts to get weird and not make too much sense, but do you put it down?

When I'm no longer interested in where a book's going - yes I put it down.

No, you think there might be some reason or point to it. You get 3/4 way through and things go from bad to worse. Do you put it down now? No, because you're almost done.

Yeah, I don't do that. With TV, relationships, or books. Once I'm no longer into it, that's it for me - where it goes after that is someone else's problem.

You're on the last chapter and things have only gotten worse (as if you thought it was even possible) and you think, "Wow! There's NO way they're going to fix the last hundred pages of disaster in one chapter." Do you put the book down yet? Nope, because you got this far, you might as well finish it. After you read the end and it's just as bad as you would expect at this point, are you disappointed due to the great interest you had at the very beginning? Yuppers! Do you have a right to criticize it? You bet!

Yeah there's a point where if all I'm doing is criticizing and feel like I'm wasting time I can't get back that I just bail. Naturally, that's why I asked you why you watch - in your situation, I'd have changed channels in season 4.

If there were more seasons, there's no way I could follow after the dessimation I saw on Sunday.

Are you sure? Or would you have watched and commented on how you can't believe things got worse after Sunday? Just sayin'.

That's the way Lost came to it's end, but like I said, the writers are geniuses at making people think there's a great story in there somewhere.

I'd like to know what those who didn't like the story/finale would have rather seen. And I don't want to hear that crap about not it not being their show and it's the writers job to entertain - I would like a real concrete answer to what they expected to see and/or would rather have seen.

Bottom line is it was a story, for better or worse. If it kept people watching every week, then it worked. Similar to the Supranos finale, how it ended is almost irrelevant to the seasons before it. People will always take away their own interpretations, and not everyone will like a finale no matter how it's done.
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 421
The New Season Of LOST
Posted: 5/28/2010 2:44:21 PM
The problem with LOST was the writers had no idea for the longest time when the end was to happen, so you ended up with scripts that where basically filler and not having a linear tie to the conclusion, so things got very confusing, kinda like making up the story as you go because you do not know when the end is coming.

You mean on day one right? Because during season 2, the writers announced that Lost would be a 6 season series, and would end in 2010.

My bad, it was season 3, not 2 - the writers strike happened in there somewhere and that always throws me yes, 2007.
Joined: 9/25/2005
Msg: 423
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The New Season Of LOST
Posted: 5/28/2010 7:26:50 PM
OMG!!!! I watched this show from day one, got "lost" around season 4, kept tuning in (those recap shows were helpful!) and watched this season SOLELY to say I had seen the whole series... and then MISSED the friggin finale!!!!! For the love of God, season finales should occur on the regular episode night, NOT on the weekend! Especially the Canadian May 2-4 weekend!!!! WTF!

Anyway - this forum has always filled the void, the questions and the confusion. Thanks to all. Womaninprogress, I think your thoughts and ideas are really smart and I thank you for making sense of the finale I missed. You posts were much more insightful than anything I read on MSN! I don't feel like I missed anything anyway.

And as far as the whole purgatory spin and finishing business before going into the light...I didn't miss the Ghost Whisperer finale - which they aired when regular viewers would actually be watching! Glad I don't watch anything else because TV just isn't what it used to be (...goes outside to garden...)

BTW - if "Jack" hadn't caught my attention in Party of Five, I don't think I would have bothered finishing up with LOST - hoping he goes on to do something interesting...
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