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 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 82
Does Friends first ever really work?Page 3 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)
Merrylass..
My husband was one of those attractions. He proposed to me one month later and we were married for 20 yrs.
My next attraction like that came on the heels of my separation. We lasted over 8 years. We still have that flame between us to this day. Our personalities are too headstrong.
I was lucky enough to have that again three years ago. But, I didn't go with it as there were other things in the way that I didn't want to deal with.
In between I have had many men interested in me, have had many dates (meets and greets) and most of them are just friendly. Most never got to the "Friends" stage because...why? There are a few that I kept as friends because we both recognized that we could be friendly as acquaintances and chat friends.
The desire to know more about them? Nah....
What I have said still stays. The attraction factor is essential. That is the gas that drives each other to get to know all about the other other. To explore the possibilities of a relationship. To find out if you can be good for each other. It also ignites passion and emotion. The two things that can make or break a relationship.
A man just 2 days ago told me that he has wonderful women friends that he knows would like to move him onto better things (him being their SO) but, he said he wants the magic. I asked what is the magic? He said Life! Passion! Heartbeat! Emotion! Being knocked at the knees! He said that none of these women has ever had an arguement with him. They are all nice, fun with wonderful smiles and giving in bed. I asked him if it was like that english pudding called blanc mange. He said Yes!
So, however it works with you. Go with it. I still stay with my gas.
 fibus
Joined: 1/1/2008
Msg: 84
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 3/2/2008 9:38:44 PM
If there isn't a strong physical attraction for you One should just give it up. a woman decides in the first 20 minutes or less If you are going to get to homeplate. If so she will let you know that at some point on the first date.
If all I wanted was a friend I would buy a dog. And I would not be on this website.
It is funny never approach sex in a profile but on these forums it is a hot topic.
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 89
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 3/3/2008 9:45:58 AM
Pleasure Pirate:
1. Define relationship. If it has already got to that word and there is no sex or romance, then it is friends or acquaintances. Then I don't consider it a failure. And it shouldn't be considered a failure even if it didn't end up as friends or otherwise.
2. Then be friends if you are not into pursuing romance or a possible g/f-b/f thing. Apparently it might grow into something later. But, first get a handle on the feelings being generated. Is it just you? Or, is there a connection between you that is irresistable?
3. Then she is not into you as any kind of b/f material. Likewise for you. I mean, c'mon, if I was into a guy and he set me up to get screwed by some other friend of his, I would say adios, man.
4. Then you are good friends. Us girls have our "sistas" who we confide in and talk over guys and sex with. I have a couple of guy friends who I have chats with and will ask him for info about how a guy thinks. Nothing else goes on. I am a firm disbeliever in FWB.
5. Then you are FWB and it sounds like a creepy situation you are in with this girl.
I'd suggest looking at discussing yours and her feelings in this scenario.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 90
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 3/3/2008 11:34:50 AM
a woman decides in the first 20 minutes or less If you are going to get to homeplate


Ugh. So sad that so many people believe in myths like this. Oh well. If you want to limit yourself, go right ahead.

Wallflower1 - that you were married 20 years is fine, but was it a good marriage and how do you define 'good' marriage. I know a widow who was married many years to a man who was indeed her best friend, who treated her with respect as an equal, to whom she could talk about anything (and did), whose company she enjoyed outside the bedroom; a man she liked and respected in every aspect of life. That's my idea of a great relationship.

I knew another woman who was married a long time. She never had conversations with her husband. They had hobbies, etc. they pursued separately. They were supportive of each other in that she followed her career and he his and they'd go to each other's functions but that was it. When, in middle age, he was struck with depression, she got tired of him being 'boring' after two years and ditched him. She claims she loved him, too (until the end) and that that had been a 'good' marriage. I'd rather chew my arm off than live like that with someone.

It's becoming clearer and clearer to me that people are vastly different in their expectations of what constitutes a 'relationship' and what they consider crucial in one. And, still, if you have that 'instant attraction' for someone who turns out to be a good partner, it's just you managed to pick one of the few winning tickets. For every one relationship that works out that way, there are hundreds which started out with 'attraction' and blew up or fizzled out sooner or later.


My son, who is 23, really likes this woman at work. He bought her 21 things for her 21st birthday, took her to a concert, took her out to eat. She considers him a "friend first" and said that, because they work together, they can't be romantic or date.


Um. then that's not 'friends FIRST'. It's friends ONLY. There's a difference. 'Friends first' means 'I want to get to know you well, find out how compatible we are, see if we really click before we bump uglies or buy rings'. Friends only is 'you will never get any of this'. You have to listen to the message.

 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 91
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 3/3/2008 1:32:47 PM
on the same token...
there are marriages that are based on this friends thing and a good many of them have fallen apart due to the "brotherly/sisterly affection" that developed after the sex became "yawn......boring." My sister's was based on the friends thing. It lasted 15 years and her many affairs before she bolted for a man who promised her passion.
Another friend of mine has just left her marriage of almost 25 years! Why? They've never had an arguement! She said it was because of no passion, no arguements, no emotion, and a cold man who was content to be her friend now as he was on day 1. He was actually a rebound for her in college after she and her boyfriend broke up. A friend who stepped in and helped her heal her broken heart with understanding. How ironic that she met up with ex-boyfriend at a social event and they found the feelings of mutual attraction and love never really died. They are now together and I have never seen her happier.
Bend a bit, Merrylass....songs, poems and movies are written about this mutual attraction that is magical. It's part of our make-up and who we are.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 92
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 3/3/2008 10:58:06 PM
Songs, poems, and movies are fiction, wallflower1. :) People have different 'love styles' - yours and mine are different. I wish you continued good luck but I've gone the 'attraction' route and the 'friendship' route (I think I said this already) and I found the latter far superior so if it's all the same to you, I won't be 'bending'.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 93
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 3/4/2008 6:52:29 AM
No, DaSwami, you're not with me. I said that one poster's son got a 'friends only' message but that 'friends first' is another matter. If you read my other posts, I say (because I have experienced) that people often fall in love with people they started out only being friends with.

In fact, if you read relationship forums where there are lots of posts about affairs, you'll see many many affairs happen because someone has a friend of the opposite gender at work that they talk to a lot w/o ever intending a relationship to happen, however the emotional intimacy generated by long conversations and spending time together leads to love. Then they go on about 'I never meant this to happen' - no, that's because they believed, wrongly, that friends never become lovers. In fact, the emotional intimacy that is created in a very good male-female friendship can easily grow into love (and attending lust).

It happens ALL the time.
 hilltop70
Joined: 3/4/2008
Msg: 95
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 3/7/2008 2:03:01 PM
sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt it usally depends on where the people are in there lives
 kotu1111
Joined: 7/26/2007
Msg: 96
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 4/30/2008 9:49:48 PM
i see this "friends first" in quite a few of the ads here on POF...i had to make a comment on it on my profile because a few women contacted me and had the friend first thing in their ad...so i understood where we were starting at up front but 2 of the 3 women that i met who had that in their ad became quite angry when after setting up where to meet(both times for dinner..and that is where THEY wanted to meet) i inquired about splitting the bill...now before i get flamed on here for being cheap and tight with money and all that let me say i am neither but like i had to put into my ad when i got out with my FRIENDS when the bill comes we all just split it up and go out merry ways...so as long as both parties head into the meeting expecting nothing more than starting out as friends i don't see any problems...but like i said before..i don't make it a hait to buy dinner with friends i already have..let alone people i have never met before!
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 97
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/1/2008 5:14:05 AM

Could that lack of passion and excitement be why the divorce rate is what it is?


People seem to be unable to understand what 'friends FIRST' means. It does not mean you marry somebody you don't have passion for. Au contraire, it means that you started out as friends, but grew into love and passion with that person as you got to know each other better. Nobody's advocating marrying someone you only like and have no passion for!

BTW the divorce rate is what it is because people still split up over money and kids - two things that should be discussed thoroughly and sorted out long before marriage to ensure both parties are on the same page. 'Lack of passion' is the end result of a bad marriage overall, not the solo cause in most cases. If you like and admire someone and feel treated well by that person, you're not going to lose passion for that person.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 98
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/1/2008 6:33:53 AM
When a WOMAN says "let's be friends first", she means "let's go on dates BEFORE we have sex". When a MAN says "let's be friends first", he means "let's not date at all right now".

E.G:
Woman fancies man & man isn't attracted to woman = friends. If they date, they will still break up.
Man fancies woman & woman isn't attracted to man = first date. If they are friends, then they are continually in the stage of a first date, and it gets too tense to continue.
 shimmrkat
Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 99
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/6/2008 2:19:37 PM
I think 'friends first' is a distancing maneuver. The person is nervous about dating, about what is expected from him/her on the first date. It can also be a way of saying 'no sex right away'.

Of course, there are also people who 'don't want to hurt anyone's feelings', and say 'friends first' instead of saying they don't want to go out with you.

Either way, it's a way of holding a hand up to the other person, of keeping them a certain distance away.
 blondi75
Joined: 8/30/2007
Msg: 100
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/7/2008 1:18:59 PM
That is a great point and very true!!!!!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 101
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:52:00 AM

It is not gender-exclusive, this 'friends only' thing. I have been in the same situation only recently, and the emotional pain is truly crushing. You've been smarter than me in that you moved on before she started dating someone else. I stuck around longer and got devastated even more.

"Friends only" is pretty self explanatory, and means never more than friends (unless the meaning of this changed recently) - this thread is about "friends first" which is a world of difference.

You sometimes wonder what does it mean, 'Friends only'. I can for sure said my only friends are people I've known my whole life and it's only two or three people, not more than that. So all these 'fake' friends who use you because you are a nice person and your feelings push you to do extraordinary things for them... well, they are just users, and nothing else.

For me "friends only" or "just friends" wouldn't be about using anyone. It would mean that I enjoy someone's company and we have fun together but there's no spark there. It's up to them to decide they agree, or won't get past any interest they may have (if they do). It means we can't date, but let's still hang out and do things together...

"Friends first" specifically means I have attraction/interest in someone and don't want to rush into anything or get too serious too soon - I want to hang out with them in a low pressure, laid back type way and learn about them before dating them. If I didn't date someone I was "friends first" with, it would be because one or both of us learned something about the other despite the attraction that we consider a dealbreaker.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 102
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:18:36 AM

I agree with you on that. However, what Mike was referring to (and myself as well) is that some people push the boundaries. They act like they are into you, spend all their free time with you, and make you believe all they need is time and patience. I wouldn't necesseraly spend hours on the phone every day with someone I don't have deeper interest in. I have great friends who I speak to once or twice a week.

Ok I admit that is odd behavior for someone who's not interested in something - that's a lot of hanging out together. No, I wouldn't do that if I wasn't interested in a romantic sense.

I think some things got 'lost in translation' here. The point is - when you start developing feelings for someone who is your friend, you have to come clean and speak to them about it. If the feeling is not mutual, there is no amount of good deeds you can do, or anything you can say to change their mind. You just end up being hurt and maybe miss out on someone who is truly worth your time and attention.

Point taken. I never develop feelings for someone I haven't already decided I was attracted to in the first place (and made that clear), or not left my options open to meet anyone else I might be interested in, so I can't say I can identify. IME, men tend to be the ones that become interested over time, not always in the beginning, whereas with me where you start is where you stay...some women develop feelings where there were none, but not many that I know of. But I understand what you're saying.
 RidingRich
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 103
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:27:57 AM
In my experience, and observations, really, the friends first mostly only works in the mind of most women, or, they're not articulating what they mean precisely enough (communications gap).

Here's some general differences.. and i do mean really general(ized) ... In any non romantic (read: SEX!) relationship, A guys interest for a woman will drop considerably over time in regards to a romantic relationship and all the stuff besides sex that comes with it. A woman's interest may tend to grow, but it just as likely to end up in a relationship where there was a big spark and they just went for it.

Yeah, its in some of those dating books, but I've seen it as true.. if a woman sees someone as a long term prospect, they'll hold off on sex, but they're also more likely to get into a relationship with someone they're already getting it on with.

What does it boil down to? Stop fooling yourself about friends first, or at least realize it doe shave to be more than "just friends". While that doesn't have to include sex, some obvious hints of attraction, or that this can be going somewhere are needed, and basically required. Yeah, there will be a bunch of guys that will just follow a woman around, and effectively just simper and whine until they get rejected for a date enough, then usually storm off after enough pain and disappear. They lack the self confidence to say "that doesn't work for me' in the first place, as well as being needy to the point of screaming "I did all this for you now why wont you love me!?!??!1!!11".. mostly because the guy has emasculated himself enough to be one of the womans 'girlfriends' and now thats just what he is.

seen it happen way too many times. ladies, pipe up here and let me know if what i'm seeing is right here. Look at all those failed friends first deals and see if thats not just whats happening a majority of the time.

To be fair, my last relationship started as friends first, but it happened more than was stated. about 2 dates in, a lot of stuff happened, and she simply said, I want to date you, I just can't right now, I have too much going on in my life, but I like you and want to hang out with you and spend some time together when we can. there was flirting back and forth all the time, a it more than a friendly peck on the lips here, and a but grab there, etc.. finally, we were working on some of those things that were an obstacle and were like, woot, we're done. lets go celebrate, and got totally schnockered, ate, had fun, blew off a bunch of steam and then when getting ready to head home, more or less got tackled and er.. mutually let off about 4 months of built up sexual tension. So afterwards, I look over and jokingly say in my best surfer imitation 'so uh like, does this like mean we're dating?' , and she deadpanned back to me "yep, right after we fix the holes in the walls, the bed and night stand we busted up tonight". we looked at each other for a minute and burst out laughing and we hit it off from there.

how did it work? we knew where it was going, but set and accepted that the 'intro' period was just going to be really long and slow. There wasn't that "inequality of desire" that busts up so many starting relationships. since the lack of feeling on one side will quickly frustrate both people and things fall apart.

Of course, maybe I'm also just patient as hell for the right thing,, as long as theres true hope in sight
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 104
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:59:31 AM

What does it boil down to? Stop fooling yourself about friends first, or at least realize it doe shave to be more than "just friends". While that doesn't have to include sex, some obvious hints of attraction, or that this can be going somewhere are needed, and basically required.

I totally agree with this, friends first should be explained along with a clear indication of interest and wanting to get to know them better.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 105
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 5/15/2008 2:52:33 PM
Friends first is the only way I've ever had a relationship. It makes more sense to be in love with someone who can be your best friend as well. Why love someone you wouldn't want as a friend?
 sweet_n_heart
Joined: 1/31/2007
Msg: 107
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 1:59:38 PM
Friends first can work... just depends on each person.. I think as friends first, it could be easier to be yourself, be open and not haven to worry about impressing the person you want, no pressure... If you happen to want more then just friends with this particular, then take that risk and tell the person you want to date them and see what happens. You got nothing to lose.

Keep in mind, alot of people who are looking for long-term want to be friends first... doing that can give them a chance to heal from the break up of the last relationship (assuming its pretty recent) and can get to know each other.
 SoCalSynergy
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 109
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 3:37:27 PM

The message you are replying to:
Posted By: dayzyflame on 2/17/2008 1006 PM
Subject: Does Friends first ever really work?
Message: I have a theory about friends first!

The difference between men & women and being friends first is (I know I'm about to generalize big time)...

Lets say a guy is at a party, a girl walks in, he looks up and thinks nothing of her. He gets to know her over time because of mutual friends, he finds out she is really cool and they become friends, he will NEVER fall in love with her because that instant attraction wasn't there. .......... Lets say a girl is at a party, a guy walks in, she looks up and thinks nothing of him. She gets to know him over time because of mutual friends, she finds out he is really cool and they become friends, she WILL fall in love with him because of his personality, his charm, wit, intelligence - because of all that - attraction has grown. .......... With that being said, you men have it much easier than we women do, women can be worn down if your are persistent and are genuine in your friendship.

I do realize there are evil people out there that use other people, I hope that is not the norm. Basically love can sweep you off your feet and carry you along in a way you've never known before. But the ride always ends, and you end up feeling lonely and bitter. Wait. It's not love I'm describing. I'm thinking of a monorail.


In the best tradition of an O. Henry story, your post ends with an interesting twist. Nicely done Miss dayzyflame.

Since I live so near to Hollyweird, CA please indulge me as I reference a couple of movies which came to mind reading this thread, and your response in particular:

When Harry Met Sally

Just Friends

Both movies present the whole Male/Female Platonic Friendship dynamic in an entertaining way...with the usual Hollywood flair of course.

I actually saw When Harry Met Sally in the theatres on 4 separate occasions with 4 different women. My friendship with these lovely ladies was *ahem* purely platonic...but, circumstances did lead two of them to date me, at different times of course (Thank you Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan!).

In my opinion, Just Friends is a riotous, laugh-inducing, and entertaining film on this topic for a later generation. Peoples names and faces may be different, but the Eternal Drama between the sexes never seems to change much, does it?

If you haven't seen both movies, check them out. I think you'll find some poignant insights mixed in with the laughter...
 redneckI
Joined: 4/22/2008
Msg: 110
Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 6:08:20 PM
Mike
I can't tell you if it works, but never has for me. The ones I made friends with are still friends, but it never goes any farther. I agree it is a female thing, and think they use it as an excuse when they are afraid for whatever reason to make themselves vulnerable enough for love. It makes me a little leary when I see friend first, but I don't let it kill a deal because Ican always use another friend. I guess it also makes me a little suspicious about investing emotionally in the relationship. Those friends I spoke of earlier are still on the net.
 Happily Ever...maybe
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 111
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 6:57:03 PM
Its never worked for me. As one poster mentioned, for a guy there is that immediate "wow" factor that goes way beyond friendship when he sees a woman he likes, and its an either/or thing, no halfway about it. I've been in that situation and tried to do the friend thing while she came around to realizing how wonderful I really am (lol). When she finally did, she got scared off by the fact that with us getting so close all that time, that it wouldn't be just dating, but a serious relationship right away, and for whatever reason, that wasn't what she wanted at the time. Unrequited love sucks!

I've been on the opposite side of that equation more than once, but that initial attraction wasn't there. In that case I always figure its better to be honest and risk hurting her feelings a little bit upfront that dragging it out and making it more painful in the long run.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 112
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/22/2008 8:30:03 PM
happily: You can't speak for all men. I don't believe that initial infatuation really means anything since it's usually based on lust and not the whole package. I develop a deep physical attraction ONLY after spending a long time with someone I connect with on a mental level. Physically, no one ever "wows" me until I get to know them. This is why the whole "love at first site" idea is pure garbage. Love and attraction take work and time. My two biggest loves were people who were the exact opposite of what I would call my "type" physically because I gave the relationships a chance. For me, I can't possibly be romantically interested in someone if I'm not friends first.
 YingKissesYang
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 113
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:38:52 PM
(((Doing things for each other in the way of help is good.. as long as you both have the understanding that you both give back anyway you can, in the way you can in the way you want to give back.. eg the man puts a shelf up for his lady friend.. she cooks a lovely Sunday lunch for him... etc... This can go on for a long time.)))


Thrifting and shopping for shoes.
Following her around, as she shops for clothes, taking care to tell her how lovely she looks.
"Being there" for her, when she has something heavy that she wants you to carry.
Going to ballet, and pretending an interest in "the arts"
Agreeing with her, that you'd much rather spend Sunday afternoon during football season shopping with her, rather than watching the game.
Agreeing with her, as she tells you what's wrong with men, and how you could do almost everything in your life.
__________________________________________________________

Great post RM, those sound like wonderful activities. I love theater, I go to thrift shops (about once a week), the arts, shopping football. Why I do believe there are billions of people on Earth with interests in one or more of those.

Would'nt it be wonderful to do it with a sexy friend, and soon to be lover, than all alone? Compare that to say, shopping all alone at Walmart at 2am.

I'd trade all my selfishness and self-righteousness for a sweet woman right now. Whats a month or two (my timeline) of getting to know each other? I can still shop at Walmart all alone and live in my stinky lonely house in the meantime.

I know, the price is huge.....the work is hard, I might have to walk across a street to meet her.
 YingKissesYang
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 114
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Does Friends first ever really work?
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:40:27 PM
I suggest any male here , young or old, go read say 20 womens profiles. Right now, no excuses. And count how many say "friends first" or "I'm not looking for a quick lay" or "I want someone who I can trust". Shall we bet that its 18/20??? Or more?

(((Doing things for each other in the way of help is good.. as long as you both have the understanding that you both give back anyway you can, in the way you can in the way you want to give back.. eg the man puts a shelf up for his lady friend.. she cooks a lovely Sunday lunch for him... etc... This can go on for a long time.)))


Thrifting and shopping for shoes.
Following her around, as she shops for clothes, taking care to tell her how lovely she looks.
"Being there" for her, when she has something heavy that she wants you to carry.
Going to ballet, and pretending an interest in "the arts"
Agreeing with her, that you'd much rather spend Sunday afternoon during football season shopping with her, rather than watching the game.
Agreeing with her, as she tells you what's wrong with men, and how you could do almost everything in your life.
__________________________________________________________

Great post RM, those sound like wonderful activities. I love theater, I go to thrift shops (about once a week), the arts, shopping football. Why I do believe there are billions of people on Earth with interests in one or more of those.

Would'nt it be wonderful to do it with a sexy friend, and soon to be lover, than all alone? Compare that to say, shopping all alone at Walmart at 2am.

I'd trade all my selfishness and self-righteousness for a sweet woman right now. Whats a month or two (my timeline) of getting to know each other? I can still shop at Walmart all alone and live in my stinky lonely house in the meantime.

I know, the price is huge.....the work is hard, I might have to walk across a street to meet her.
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