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 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 451
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operative word is REQUEST not ILLEGAL


I didn't say it was illegal. I was using as a reference... But since you brought it up... Use of ACM's is a violation of the majority of the building codes throughout the US. Codes are ordinances, and can be considered criminal if willfully violated.
Can we agree this horse is dead and cease with the beatings?
 Herkimer
Joined: 5/17/2005
Msg: 452
Gun Control
Posted: 8/11/2005 6:00:02 AM
No because their is no law that states using ACM is illegal! The REMOVAL is the issue
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 453
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/11/2005 6:05:37 AM
Giddyup Dead Horse!
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 454
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Posted: 8/11/2005 6:42:45 AM
But what if guns were actually MADE from asbestos ?

Discuss.... ( makes circular motion with hands)
 Herkimer
Joined: 5/17/2005
Msg: 455
Gun Control
Posted: 8/11/2005 6:57:00 AM
LMAO
 stealth2
Joined: 7/5/2005
Msg: 456
Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 12:50:43 PM
The only way to stop death by guns is to totally remove them from society. THAT'S IT!!!!


---------------------------------------
BINGO! That's what I think we need to do, totally outlaw all guns, even hunting rifles.
That's the only way to change the senseless killings by punks who rob convenience stores, drug, gang related, mob hits, bank robberies. It would immediately cut down on crime by one-half to three-quarters. I lived in a country where there were no guns, only those carried by the police or the army.
 lola05
Joined: 7/1/2005
Msg: 457
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 1:40:10 PM

stealth2
" BINGO! That's what I think we need to do, totally outlaw all guns, even hunting rifles.
That's the only way to change the senseless killings by punks who rob convenience stores, drug, gang related, mob hits, bank robberies.


~ i agree... But at the very least ...Handguns.
...They are far.. too easy ..to steal and conceal.

~ Of course, there always will be some level of illegal trade, however it would be harder
for most, " punks ", ...who are not connected, ...to get a hold of one, when they can't
be easily stolen from say, ...i don't know.... (wild guess)..... every 4th house !!!

~ The more guns are around in a society, the more likely people are to run out
and buy more guns for protection, .....then a percentage of those guns get stolen,
...winding up on the street , ...causing more fear ... and more buying of guns... etc.

~ It Truly is a --> Cycle of Madness !!! ~



timpommell
" Can we agree this horse is dead and cease with the beatings? "


~~> !!! Tim, can i borrow that ? ~ (that was funny ! )



.... asbestos gun -> ( makes circular motion with hands)


~ ~ Monty, i can picture you doing that, and it's ......Hysterical !

( *runnin* ... for another rag ! ~ ~ )
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 458
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 1:47:46 PM
We actually do a pretty good job here in Canada. That's the strange thing. There has been a recent increase in shootings in the Toronto area - and it's getting a lot of press.

That means the police will crack down BIG time on anyone they think is a menace. It's a bit like what happened with the Hell's Angel's here in Montreal about ten years ago today. They were allowed to prosper and have stockpiles of weapons - until an innocent kid was killed in a car bomb attack against a suspected member of another gang. ( He wasn't , btw.) As long as they killed fellow criminals, the justice system let it slide.

After that, it all broke loose. The Angels were hit with every possible method the authorities could think of , and almost the entire membership had the book thrown at them. Most are in prison now, and there were so many that they had to build a special secure courthouse in a local jail.

It worked. The Angel's are still around, but everyone learned a really important lesson. Don't mess with the innocent.
 lola05
Joined: 7/1/2005
Msg: 459
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 1:57:19 PM

evanism
And you would suggest removing them, how exactly?
How are you going to remove them from the criminals?


uhhmmm, ... by removal of legal guns initially ?
. . . leading to a large reduction of the numbers of guns readily available to criminals




" The number one cause of death in the world today is people dying. "


Thankyou for that, ...evanism. ~ ~ Just, ... Thanks ! ~
 lola05
Joined: 7/1/2005
Msg: 460
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 2:17:45 PM


taurus516
" Someone may have mentioned this but it bears repeating.
. . History .. Hitler ..private gun ownership... "


~ Yes, taurus, ...that whole issue... has been raised on this thread.
You're welcome, to look back, ... and add something to that debate, if you wish.

<------ ( *doesn't* much care for " beating dead horses" today )
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 461
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 2:33:19 PM
Just make sure they are not loaded when doing that.
 lola05
Joined: 7/1/2005
Msg: 462
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Posted: 8/12/2005 2:42:52 PM
Monty, ...now be nice !

<---( luvs Hoochyman !
Honest, Happily married and Always ...welcome on PoF )

~ And add to that,

. . . . . . . Very Sensible about Safety ... in His Gun ownship ! ~
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 463
Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 5:05:57 PM


uhhmmm, ... by removal of legal guns initially ?
. . . leading to a large reduction of the numbers of guns readily available to criminals


You mean like what's been done with drugs? Or what was tried with alcohol in the USA early last century?
 lola05
Joined: 7/1/2005
Msg: 464
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Posted: 8/12/2005 5:41:33 PM
CountIbli ,

....clearly you missed my previous post ---> On the same page.
.... try scrolling up abit,... before you post.

~ To equate--> illegal drugs, or alcohol with handguns is...
~ well, ... quite... similar to ...most of your previous comparisons,
.... on this thread.

Must i state the obvious, that in regards to theft -> illegal drugs
. . are not known to be widely available in ....Most peoples homes ?

And, that neither illegal drugs nor alcohol are presently a ...
Popular choice as a weapon for killing another person ?

And that the only way to reduce a criminal's ability to get a gun,
is to drastically reduce the source of where most street guns are coming from ?
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 465
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Posted: 8/12/2005 6:51:07 PM

And you would suggest removing them, how exactly? How are you going to remove them from the criminals?


I say we set up a sting operation.... Perhaps offer them tickets to say a Celine Dion concert (that'll bring em out of the woodwork... GAAAAAKKKK)
I'm envisoning two lines at the ticket counter, one for legal gun owners and one for criminals. We get the cops to walk around with bushel baskets and collect the guns from legal owners, and we have another set of cops just open fire on the criminals.... That's about the only way you're going to get compliance from the criminal side of things. (Why don't people get that criminals don't play by the same set of rules as everyone else ... it's the essence of what makes them criminals?!?!?!?!?) Want to INCREASE gun crime? Send the message to criminals that law abiding citizens no longer have the means to shoot back, you'll see a tremendous escalation in gun related crime!
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 466
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Posted: 8/12/2005 7:42:27 PM

Must i state the obvious, that in regards to theft -> illegal drugs
. . are not known to be widely available in ....Most peoples homes ?


Are you saying that illegal firearms ARE available in most peoples homes?

Normally guns (and drugs) are not considered illegal UNTIL they are used or manufactured for use with specific criminal intent. I can have pain pills in my home with a prescription, but if someone steals them, they are no longer "legal" same drugs, just in the hands of someone other than the lawful owner.
Perhaps we should outlaw currency... without currency you couldn't buy illegal drugs or weapons...
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 467
Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 9:37:40 PM


~ To equate--> illegal drugs, or alcohol with handguns is...


I didn't equate them. You obviously missed my point completely. Making something illegal doesn't make it scarce. Illegal drugs are now more widespread and easily available than they were when they were legal. When alcohol was made illegal it did not go away. By making guns illegal you're just going to make the illegal trafficking of guns more lucrative. Just like what has/had happened with drugs and alcohol.

Disarming people will not make them safer from armed criminals. Disarming people will not keep criminals from buying guns on the black market. If disarming law abiding citizens is a good idea I say we start by disarming the police and military and see how well that goes.
 mycorosso
Joined: 1/11/2005
Msg: 468
Gun Control
Posted: 8/12/2005 10:27:49 PM
I find if I wrap my "gun" in an approved prophylactic it prevents the collateral damage from the crossfire that is oddly emminent.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 469
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Posted: 8/12/2005 11:20:34 PM
Disarming people will not make them safer from armed criminals. Disarming people will not keep criminals from buying guns on the black market.


Works very well here.

There are very few drive by stabbings, too.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 470
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Posted: 8/13/2005 3:50:08 PM
To suggest that befor we take away guns from law abiding citizens we should remove them from the police and militar,...is a rather ludicrous and week statement to make,...since these are the people that are meant to replace the NEED for law abiding citisens to arm themselves

I would much rather have those that are trained to protect me and mine,....
than to have to do it myself,.....or worse yet expect my son's to,.....

but you might want to check out the history of british police officers who untill not all that long ago NEVER carried a gun in their pursuit of criminals,....

They do now I think but I'm not sure when that changed or even why,..
I'd be interested in someone telling me if they know,.....
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 471
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Posted: 8/13/2005 8:19:52 PM

but you might want to check out the history of british police officers who untill not all that long ago NEVER carried a gun in their pursuit of criminals,....

Cracks me up when people compare the US to Great Britain and suggest that the fact their police weren't armed is somehow a tribute to the "civilized" society they live in. First off it's about the size of new england... Secondly, their military is actively deployed in all sections of the "British Empire"... what cop needs a revolver when he has the army looking over his shoulder with machine guns? Thirdly, Great Britain has been involved in a civil war of sorts for countless years... Not quite the peaceful land of tea and crumpets if you actually pay attention to what's actually taking place over there.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 472
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Posted: 8/13/2005 9:40:38 PM
what cop needs a gun when he has the army looking over his shoulder?

your kidding right?,....well not only your cops,..but apparently your civilians too,...
.....and your point?

BTW,...I never once suggested or even hinted at GB being a peacefull land or even more,... less or differently civilized than the States,....God knows what you said is absolutely true and you don't have to go far to verify this just ask any Irishman....Not only that but they have an even more extensive record of wanting to fix (or at times take over) other countries (for their own good),...than the US does,...

feel free to re-read what I did in fact say though,...which is;

that the British police,...to MY knowledge,....NEVER carried a gun until recently,....
I aslo asked for anyone knowing anything different to feel free to correct me,....

exactly which portion of your comment Tim,....changed, corrected or in any ammended my statement?...

I also am unclear as to what difference the size of the country makes with regards to their police not needing to carry side arms?,...

If you went by size of a place try comparing apples to apples rather than to oranges,...like for example,....someplace that is closer in population,...rather than just square footage,......
perhaps,....New York City,....Lost Angeles,....or,.... well you get my point,....

then tell me if your police in those places don't need guns to catch the bad guys,...

because I believe each of those places, has a significant number of military personel too,....

So I say again,...your point?




 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 473
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Posted: 8/14/2005 5:31:39 AM
I don't think any of us are saying that you should not carry a gun. As I have said before, that concept is now deeply embedded in many American's DNA - and it can't be removed.

I am more along the lines of asking American's to "imagine" a different world, the one most of us in western democracies live in comfortably, without danger, and without a constant fear of having to protect ourselves against criminals or " men in black " taking over our countries.

Only America is like that, and you have to ask yourself why. That is what we are doing here.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 474
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Posted: 8/14/2005 6:14:18 AM
well said Montreal guy,...

j David,...if you re-read some of the past postings you will know that your impression of our rights here in Canada to own a gun are way off,...we do have pretty much the same right to own them that you do,....our controlls over them are more stringent,...with waiting periods,...and licenses,...and permits to carry concealed weapons,(which for the most part are so limited, that I don't feel that everyone on the streets has one and is prepared to brandish it against me at any moment,.....hence I have no need to carry one either,...

I feel safe and secure with that knowledge,.....

what some of us are saying,...or at least I am saying,..is just how free are you if you think there is constantly someone out there you have to defend yourself against,...and that you personally have to do this fending off because you can not trust your law officials to be there for you?,....Somehow I find that very sad,....

I'm not saying that there are no criminals here who could come at me with a gun,..but the chances are so remote,....I don't have to worry about it,...and don't

And the debate is gun CONTROLL,....not gun elimination,...there's a big difference,....

 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 475
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Posted: 8/14/2005 6:24:59 AM
The only Canadian I have ever known, that has recounted a personal tragedy involving weapons ( aside from a friend of mine whose father shot himself) is Lola. I have never heard of anyone using a gun in self-defense either. ( I work in the alarm business, so I see a lot of situations like that. Our American clients are different. They grab their handgun and respond to alarms like police....sigh.)

I am 48, and that simple fact tells me that our system does work very well. I live in a "disenfranchised" area of Montreal, and there is no gun problem here - and little crime aside from the occasional car that has it's radio taken.

I have been here now about a year and a half, and there have been two incidents involving police response.

1) A neighbour had his girlfriend try to strangle him on the street. ( She has mental problems, and wasn't taking her medication.

2) A man barricaded himself in his apartment after a domestic abuse incident, and held police off with a shotgun ( legally owned, btw - although not any more.)

No one was hurt in either of those incidents. Montreal police seldom use deadly force, unless REALLY in a position of danger. They do not even draw their guns, unless a reasonable suspicion of danger is present.

I have never heard of, or seen,anyone armed here, except the police.
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