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 AUTHOR
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 476
Gun ControlPage 20 of 50    (10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50)
For what it is worth~ I recall hearing about a town somewhere in the USA where It became severely enforced law all MUST carry a concealed weapon!


an ya know what?
crime

and shooting incidents went way down

kinda brings to mind the expression, with appolgies to cat lovers the world over,
"There are many ways to kill a cat besides choking it with cream."
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 477
Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 7:14:29 AM
For what it is worth~ I recall hearing about a town somewhere in the USA where It became severely enforced law all MUST carry a concealed weapon!


an ya know what?
crime

and shooting incidents went way down
I believe it was proposed, but NEVER enforced, let alone severely.
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 479
Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 7:39:22 AM
sparkle, it wasn't enforced, thankfully. I agree with the tip-toeing... yikes!
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 481
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 7:49:03 AM
I was taken by surprise at your information on Switzerland so I decided to google,...
SWISS GUN CONTROL

Here is some of what I found out,....

Apparently the law there is that abled bodied males between the ages of 21 - 50 are in fact required by law to own a gun,...and to keep same at home,...these weapons are fully automatic assault rifles, which must be kept lockedup,...they are issued 72 rounds for this weapon, they are sealed and must be strictly acounted for,....the reason for this is that those males are required if needed to participate in the swiss malitia,....and that these assault rifles are difficult to conceal hence making their use in a criminal fashion very difficult,...

However since Jan 1999,...the countries restrictions on guns particularly hand guns has become very stringents and permits to cary concealed weapons are tough (if not down right impossible )to get and must fall within strict guidelines,....

despite these restrictions,....(and to answer your question regarding swiss crime),....switzerland has the second highest ratio of handgun deaths per population second only to,......you guessed it,....the USA,...amunition in switzerland also must be registered,...
Switzerland has been under considerable pressure from it's EU neighbours to tighten up controlls,...and permitts,....but has as yet not knuckled under,...

It has been determined that it is Switzerlands cultural thinking on gun ownership that prevents their use simply because of availability,...one stated that were that not the case, that virtually all domestic disturbances could result in gun use and this is in fact not the case,...although 1/5th of all suicides in switzerland are resulting from gun use but oddly enough the same numbers are for Japan which have absolute restrictions on all gun ownership to it's population,....

there are many sites available to verify this information,...


the site from which I quote can be found at

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-switzerland.html

The number on this site are not recent figures but,...revealing none the less,...

On September 27, 2001 a lone gunman,...shot and killed 14 members of Parliament in the cantonel, Zug, near Zurich,...

The then swiss justice minister Ruth Metzler, blamed the countries liberal gun laws for this incident and tightened laws regarding ownership...and registrations,...and seriously restricting CCW permits to the point where they are rarely issued,....

see also,... http://johnrlott.tripod.com/swissgunlaws.html

I personally was very interested in what I found out and thak you Norolim for putting the bug in my ear to check,...





 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 482
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 7:55:05 AM

your kidding right?,....well not only your cops,..but apparently your civilians too,...
.....and your point?
...................................
I believe each of those places, has a significant number of military personel too,....

So I say again,...your point?

Obviously you aren't grasping the meaning of the word DEPLOYED. It is illegal in the US to deploy military to aid in local law enforcement EXCEPT under extreme conditions where the national guard is activated to aid in what has been determined to be a threat to the soverignty and safety of the state. I happen to have military families living in my neighborhood, and none of them are authorized to carry weapons off of the military installation for use as supplimental law enforcement.
My "point" is that an inability to understand the issue is not an indication that the opposing position is wrong.
Just a list of things you don't seem to be grasping:

Structure and limits of OUR government
Belief in individual liberty
Preservation of Family and property
Philosophy of our founding fathers
and the last thing.... We are not Canadians... You have the right to believe your country is the greatest thing and place in the world and we won't argue with you about it. We don't try to improve or "enlighten" your values, would it not be common courtesy to recognize that we didn't ask for your opinion on our gun laws, you asked for ours...

I am about to agree with another post and simply say that since you aren't US citizens you don't understand why we value these rights and probably never will.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 483
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:13:16 AM
Again, I return to my question of why Americans are the exception in all western democratic countries. Gun deaths are the highest there, and you have more criminals incarcerated than almost any other nation on Earth.

Yet, it continues.Americans kill more Americans than Al Queda could even dream of. That's fascinating to me, and telling.

Gun massacres occur everywhere, I mentioned one that happened at a university near my home.

They happen in much greater numbers in the USA.

Let me ask you another question, about those Columbine type incidents.

Take each one of them, and make the shooter(s) extremist terrorists instead of school children. Imagine Bin Laden had set up sleeper cells in the USA, and had ordered an string of attacks every few months at a public schools, or post offices, or McDonald's.

How long would it take to crack down on the " danger" ? Why is it not perceived in the same way ? To me, it's exactly the same.

I asked this on another site, and an American replied. " That's different, they are foreigners attacking us, in your example. "

I guess WHO kills you is far more important.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 484
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:17:18 AM
your right about one thing anyway,..I don't understand how walking around afraid all the time makes you free,....I don't get that at all but as long as you do,..knock yourself out,...

And I don't just have military people living near me,...I have them right in my own home,...
My ex and I both were military,..and our sons all are today,...

Perhaps my lack of understanding has as much to do with the fact that
"I AM NOT A US CITIZEN,.."as you put it,.. AS YOUR INABILITY TO EXPLAIN,...

you weren't implying that the British military is deployed all over GB,...are you? and if you are where are you getting your information from?

I know that there is a contingent of military deployed in Northern Ireland,...
do you know something different?,....I am always eager to learn,...

My grasp of the concept of belief in individual freedom is based on the fact that I feel free,...
I don't think there is a boogey man around every corner,...I don't need to sleep with a loaded gun under my pillow to feel safe,...or keep one in my purse,...just in case,...

Perhaps because you ARE an American you can't understand THAT concept,...

Just a thought,...Tim
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 485
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 1:02:17 PM
Gee I'm not sure which is worse,..fear or complacency,.....

fear can lead to anger which can lead to action,....
but complacency, acceptance,.....that's the end of the line,...
that's sounds hopeless,....and that's sounds so sad to me,...
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 486
Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 1:14:02 PM


I would much rather have those that are trained to protect me and mine,....
than to have to do it myself,.....or worse yet expect my son's to,.....


I don't know how it works up in Canada, but in the US our police don't protect us. They can only respond after a crime is committed. It's pretty rare for the cops to show up during a crime (maybe Canadanian cops are psychic) and even more rare for them to actually prevent a crime. Some times they lock people up, but these people just end up going to jail where they can learn more tricks of the trade and then are on the street again in a few months.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 487
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Posted: 8/14/2005 1:18:41 PM
Here is how it works here.

Very few criminals have guns ( I wonder why) up here, so you do not need one to defend yourself.

As I have posted before, I have a Louisville Slugger at home - and I don't play baseball.

That's all I need to defend myself against 99.99999 percent of the criminals I am going to encounter.

Police are fairly efficient in home intrusion situation, and based on my experience as someone who works with them all the time - I can expect a patrol car at my house in perhaps 5-10 minutes for a high priority situation like that.

That's all the time I need, and I will be pretending I am Hank Aaron until they arrive.

I also have a "Bride" sword from "Kill Bill" purely as a decoration hanging on my living room wall ( Orientally themed , btw) . It's not sharpened, and just for decorative purposes. It looks great, supported by two black cast iron candle holders, with black candles.

I don't have to mention that to anyone breaking in to my apartment at 3 am though. It's solidly built, and an excellent deterrent.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 488
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 1:39:12 PM
I wonder why no one get's that Montreal guy?,...

Oddly enough I too have several purely decorative swords on my son's walls,...
mine are the LOTR kind,...and an added bonus of 2 dogs,...

suits me just fine,...and with his yappyness patrolling the halls at night no one can sneak in,...not even the son's who live there,...without my knowing it,...lol

 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 489
Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 1:58:24 PM
Why do you need swords, dogs, and baseball bats for protection when you have the police who are only 10 minutes away?
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 490
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Posted: 8/14/2005 2:04:52 PM
I think you missed the point,...the swords are on the wall for decoration,...the baseball bat I'll let Montreal guy speak to,...as for the dogs,...and I actually have 2 but the little miss is onlt a toy yorkie,..so she doesn't count except in the noismaking department,....

I have them because my husband took the other three in the settlement,...
I happen to love dogs,....sometime even more than people,...


but they are also purely decorative,...
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 491
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 2:07:22 PM
a better question would have been who in the heck needs 20 or 30 guns,....

Unless of course you are an arms dealer,...

isn't that sort of ( punn intended) overkill?
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 492
Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 2:29:00 PM
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 493
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Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 2:37:10 PM
Perhaps we should introduce you to TIM HORTON"S,....

you can't swing a dead cat by the tail around here without hitting a Tim's (do nut shop)

when you live a stone's throw away from a Tim's,...the cops are always handy,...(lol)
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 494
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Posted: 8/14/2005 2:51:51 PM
Hey Mary,..thanks for clearing that up for me at any rate,...

Maybe that's the reason some of the police who did have a weapon issued to them that day,...overeacted because of the novelty of having the side arm,...

I don't know,...just a thought,...

I love reading your accent in your posts BTW but what in the heck is a Trunchion?,...
That one's a new one for me,...

I also am ashamed to admitt how little I know of Britan,...like the population,...

Which is in fact double ours,..and when you compare the size of the countries (yours and mine) it's amazing to me that you don't have more crime,...

Actually according to the web sites I checked they stated specifically that Northern Ireland has a military presence regularly patrolling the streets,....so you never know what information is accurate,....since you live there I'm going to take your word for it as gospel,...

be safe,....
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 495
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:08:35 PM
Does put a whole new spin on the incident,...now doesn't it Mary?

and no wonder,.... is right
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 496
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Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 3:41:31 PM
Hey there DBNDON,...
thanks for so eloquently making my point for me,...
Oddly enough I probably wouldn't feel safe walking the streets of Detroit either,...

But my question to you,....would you feel as unsafe walking the streets of Toronto?
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 497
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Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/14/2005 4:56:28 PM

Let's let these naysayers walk the streets of Detroit unprotected. Here, in the most violent city in the nation (according to the FBI), you go walking down the street looking like a pacifist, the street punks will rob you every second or third block. They all have guns, of course.


Funny how it is so unsafe, given all those guns around.


Sigh....

As to the baseball bat, and it's purpose, it's defensive only. If someone breaks into my home, I always have my cell phone within reach.

I programmed 911 for voice, and all I have to do is say "emergency" . About 5-10 secs later I am online with a 911 operator, most of whom ( in Montreal) know me, as I work with them four nights a week. They know my voice. I frequently crack them up by telling them I am the worst person in Montreal to make an anonymous bomb threat. One of them I reduced to tears of laughter by doing that, she literally had a hard time finishing the call.

Tha baseball bat is there to give me the five or ten minutes of protection I need before the squad car pulls up at my door. It is not there to attack with, it's purely defensive. My first goal is to dissuade the criminal from staying, the second to make sure he is not going to have much of a chance to hurt me.

The most I expect to see coming at me ( realistically) is someone with a knife. Given that, a baseball bat is enough protection - at least for the ten minutes I need.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 498
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Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/15/2005 5:36:42 AM
Monty

Tha baseball bat is there to give me the five or ten minutes of protection I need before the squad car pulls up at my door.

Monty, go outside and swing that bat defensively for 5 or 10 minutes.... I'm betting you don't make the two minute mark before hitting the ground all by yourself.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 499
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Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/15/2005 6:03:25 AM
Try coming through my living room window at 3 am without an invitation.


Batta-Batta-Batta.....
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 500
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Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/15/2005 6:35:49 AM
I think my .45 is a better defensive weapon than your Louisville Slugger, and gave you an opportunity to prove me wrong. Typical liberal rhetoric though, you want to share your enlightenment ... in fact, set it as the standard, without actually testing the theory of enlightenment first.
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