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 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 526
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History
Re: Gun ControlPage 22 of 50    (10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50)
dbndon

In Kentucky (my home state) We call those types of marksmanship events "Turkey Shoots" (no turkeys were injured in the creation of this e-mail)
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 527
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 11:39:13 AM
The german tourists were driving a rental car that had HERTZ all over it.... they wandered into a rather unseemly part of town and apparently tried to get directions from the people who robbed / killed them. One of the radio station Morning Shows (Ron & Ron) kind of had a field day with it (which I personally found distasteful and as a result boycotted the station). One of their interns renamed his band "Dead German Tourists".
As a result of their deaths, all rental car companies in Florida are required to issue local maps with rentals, and are no longer allowed to advertise on any part of the car other than the keychain.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 528
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 2:41:26 PM
I'm sorry,...which part of their deaths was their fault again?

Renting a car?
which the company they rented from wanted to advertise while they were using it,..

their ignorance for not knowing which parts of the town are unseemly?
getting lost? or their stupidity
for thinking that you can just ask somebody for help and they will?

I guess they should have known before coming that in Florida it's tourists beware,...
They certainly won't be making that mistake again,....will they?

and just FYI to me which part of your explanation is supposed to make future tourists feel better if all of this happened before baby bush signs the new law?,....

PS I am soooo pleased to know Tim that you found some part of that distatefull,....
but why not their needless death?that's the part that other Germans found rather distateful to say the very least
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 529
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 5:06:05 PM
I have this conviction that gun ownership and support for that right predicates itself on the concept of the individual being more important than the society. That is an essential , almost archetypical, and uniquely American viewpoint.

The Canadian mentality, based on our European roots, is of collective rights being more important than the rights of the individual. That mentality makes us less likely to put ourselves in a position where we see ourselves as able to do whatever we want.

That carries over into the conduct of our daily lives - including criminality.

It's just quite fascinating that America is the exception to most of the world's western democracies in this regard. In some strange way, it's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness.

It's a yin-yang thang !
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 530
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 5:30:51 PM
That's not fair Monty, or accurate. There are egocentric people everywhere, and the viewpoint that you describe manifests itself in many ways... it's a wild overgeneralization to say "uniquely american," in my opinion.


The Canadian mentality, based on our European roots, is of collective rights being more important than the rights of the individual. That mentality makes us less likely to put ourselves in a position where we see ourselves as able to do whatever we want.
That is very common here, too, as well as Europe, as you point out...


It's just quite fascinating that America is the exception to most of the world's western democracies in this regard. In some strange way, it's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness.
Again, I think you overgeneralize. I don't understand your motivation.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 531
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 5:36:26 PM
dbndon

Same with Russell County. The event's were't advertised "open" events, they were limited to family reunions, church picnics etc. The only charge I can recall is $1 per shot for the church with the winner actually getting a turkey, and similar for the family renunions with the winner collecting the pot.
Thanks for taking me back to my youth!
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 532
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 5:44:26 PM

I know of more than a few Germans who re -considered going there on vacation after that couple were shot and killed their first day of vacation,....can't remember the details,...maybe someone else can,....

You just made an inquiry of the details, didn't know I was supposed to try to give you a warm and fuzzy about wanting to include Florida in your future travel plans. If you choose to exclude Florida as a vacation spot, it's your perogative... I see hundreds of Canadian plates a month and I don't even live in a "major" tourist area, so it would seem a very large portion of your population doesn't seem to view things your way.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 533
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 5:54:57 PM
Nit,

Here is my view.

The base concept of the "American dream" is that the individual is king. The justice system bows to the individual ( or used to). A man's house is his castle, he can have arms, he can ( and should ) compete to the maximum in the arena of capitalism. He doesn't need a social safety net - as winners never need anything, only losers do.

Welfare is bad, but not corporate welfare.

Trade unions are generally seen as a negative. Communism ( or extreme socialism) is seen as the biggest threat, and dealt with harshly. US government policy dictated that is would aid any political opponent in a country threatened with Communism - even if those self same juntas that came into power as a result were ruthless killers, and madmen.

Just look at Chile. Look at anywhere in South and Central America.

Look at American materialism, and it's "Great Gatsby" like fairy tale lifestyle. Look at the waste in American society, the energy inefficiency.

You are 5 percent of the world's population, and consume 45 percent of the world's oil resources.

That produces a mentality that places the ego of the individual as paramount. It is a "winner take all" mentality, and judges those who do not "make it" as being of lesser value.

That is great in one way, because it pushes people to do great things - but not without a cost.

Just ask yourself why the United States is ( I believe) the only industrialized nation without national health care - and with a heavily armed population ?

Those are two HUGE differences in a society, and the USA is exceptional when compared to the more typical industrial models of socialized democracies with extreme control over firearms.

Are all Americans like that ? Of course not.
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 534
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 5:57:41 PM
I guess the difference between your view and my view is that I see that the majority of Americans are not.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 535
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 5:59:25 PM
dare I state the obvious?.............ok Rusty,...I dare,....

You know what they say,...and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
leaves a lot of blind folks,...gummin' their food,....

not to mention the fact that it leaves absolutely NO room whatsoever for mistakes
you lop off someone's jewles I dare say an Ops my bad won't cover it
if you find out later that your wrong,....

As for instilling fear into your populace,....yo dude is that even possible?

 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 536
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 5:59:41 PM
Perhaps being an outsider/insider changes ones perspective on the concept.
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 537
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 6:07:04 PM
Well, I must say that while I only speak for myself, that the people with the "dreams," philosophies, and outlooks on life would be most familiar with their own, no? You're making some awfully big generalizations and it's not about being an "outsider" or an "insider," in my opinion.

You seem to be casting quite a few stereotypes lately, and that's unlike you (at least from what I've generally seen.) I am guessing from quite a few of your posts lately that you're bothered by very many "things American," but that doesn't mean a call for so many generalizations (in my opinion.) You're more familiar with Canada, and maybe that's appropriate for your country, if everyone's so similar. But I assure you, we don't fit into the mold you're trying to create.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 538
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 6:09:27 PM
Monty I have to agree with Nit...

I have this conviction that gun ownership and support for that right predicates itself on the concept of the individual being more important than the society. That is an essential , almost archetypical, and uniquely American viewpoint.

The US is actually a society of individuals, with each person afforded specific rights. The uniquness of our society is that we are not compelled to exercise any rights which we are in moral objection to. If I choose not to own a gun, I am not compelled by anyone or anything to purchase one. By the same token, if I choose, I do not need the blessing of ever changing current social trends to purchase one ... the truly enlightened founding fathers made sure that pop culture didn't impact the bed rock of our country. (Obviously this is only one of the rights afforded.)

The Canadian mentality, based on our European roots, is of collective rights being more important than the rights of the individual. That mentality makes us less likely to put ourselves in a position where we see ourselves as able to do whatever we want.

That carries over into the conduct of our daily lives - including criminality.

The philosophy of a democratic republic such as ours is just the opposite. The rights of the individual cannot be trampled by the majority, or "society". No doubt it's a delicate balance making certain one does not negatively impact the other, but I believe by and large we do a pretty good job.
If you take a look around, you'll notice that the majority of US citizens have a European heritage as well. I think you're considering this from the wrong vantage.... law abiding citizens do not "see ourselves as able to do whatever we want", rather we see ourselves as having the right to protect ourselves from the people who seem to do whatever they want AKA garden variety criminals.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 539
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 7:05:29 PM
You seem to be casting quite a few stereotypes lately, and that's unlike you (at least from what I've generally seen.) I am guessing from quite a few of your posts lately that you're bothered by very many "things American," but that doesn't mean a call for so many generalizations (in my opinion.) You're more familiar with Canada, and maybe that's appropriate for your country, if everyone's so similar. But I assure you, we don't fit into the mold you're trying to create.


Let me try and explain myself better then.

Let's look at some typical situations. When I see an American tourist in Montreal, I normally try to help them enjoy their stay by asking if they need help regarding places to visit or eat.

Almost all Americans that I have assisted have one thing in common. I would say 75 percent, with the exception being those who have a long history of world travel.

Where do they want to eat ? American restaurants. McDonald's or other chains. I have suggested some excellent french, oriental, and middle eastern places - and the reaction is always the same.

They seldom want to plunge into the culture. They want the "see Canada in 3 days" tours.

Why do you think the stereotypical American tourist is seen as loud and obnoxious ? They aren't really, that's a myth. They are "individuals" though, and acting as they would in their society. Outside of it, they are just contrasting with the "other" mentality.

It's a two fold thing. First of all it's like being in the center of the world. All our eyes focus on your country, thanks to it's media and entertainment dominance. You are in the center of that, and you ( like us) are dominated by that too.

How many Americans know a lot about other countries, including Canada - the one right next door ? I am not saying all are like that, but enough are to make it a very valid point.

Look at something as simple as the philosophy of regime change. You decide which governments people should have - which is in itself , quite un-democratic. What other country thinks like that ? There is little opposition to that philosophy there. There is some.

Take Chile. A democratically elected government under Allende was toppled by a CIA backed coup. A democratically elected leader was murdered.

Just read this:


VO: Gorbachev asked the Americans to help him negotiate a peace that would create a stable government in Afghanistan. But the hard-liners in Washington refused point-blank. They would continue to help the mujaheddin until the last Russians left, without any negotiation. The future of Afghanistan would then be decided, they said, by the freedom fighters.

VLADIMIR POZNER , Soviet Spokesman in the United States, 1987: I think that basically, we’ve asked the United States to help us get out, if you’re really interested in stopping the bloodshed.

MODERATOR : But can you get out and leave a government in Afghanistan that supports, that is a friend of the Soviet Union?

POZNER : I believe that we can get out, provided that no more aid is given to what people here call freedom fighters, and we call counterrevolutionaries. I believe that’s possible, provided that the United States is also interested in the same.

RICHARD PERLE , Assistant Secretary of Defense 1981-1987 : Well, it’s not very complicated. They arrived in a matter of days, on Christmas Eve in 1979; they could be home by Christmas Eve, if they decided to leave Afghanistan and let the Afghans decide their own future. If you leave, the problem of support to the mujaheddin solves itself.

VO: Gorbachev was shocked by the intransigence of the U.S. Administration. He sent a private message through the KGB, warning the Americans that if they allowed the mujaheddin to take control in Afghanistan, it would not produce democracy. Instead, he predicted, the most extreme forms of Islamism would rise up and triumph. But Gorbachev’s warning was ignored. As Soviet troops left Afghanistan, both the Americans and the Islamists came to believe that they had not only won the battle for Afghanistan, they had also begun the downfall of the entire Evil Empire.

http://web.telia.com/~u70316236/tpon/ABOUT/Transcript%20%20-%20BBC%202004%20The%20Power%20of%20Nightmares%20%20-%20The%20Rise%20of%20the%20Politics%20of%20Fear%20-%20Part%20II%20-%20The%20Phantom%20Victory.htm


Those people attacking the Russians are the same people attacking American forces now. They are doing the same thing as they did then. Americans had no problem with insurgents then. They gave them money, and politically supported them.

They were Islamic radicals, crazies, and your best friends - against Communist forces.

Suddenly, they are "terrorists" while doing exactly what you once trained them to do.

It's my opinion that one of the fundamental problems with the USA's Iraq strategy is that is was drawn up by people that had no knowledge of the culture they were going into. They presumed that people would act like Americans/European's would.

Big bad dictator. Liberation. Happy and joyful crowds like Paris in 1944.

Not the way it happened, not even close.

Why ?


I KNEW that my God was bigger than his," Lieutenant General William G. Boykin said of his Muslim opponent. "I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol."


That is one of your top military men. Highly educated. One of the leaders of this fight against terrorism.

He is also ignorant.


Few Christians seem to understand these things, and almost no Muslims seem to. Few Christians have a good understanding of the Trinity, and even they sometimes talk as though there are two or three separate Gods (a serious error, as there is ONE True God!). Muslims therefore believe that Christians believe in at least TWO separate Gods, and therefore (justifiably) express criticism toward Christianity. But Christians really believe in exactly One True God, the God of Abraham, the same God that Muslims call Allah.

http://mb-soft.com/believe/compat00.html


That shows the type of lack of knowledge of other cultures and religions I am talking about. That man is the product of your best institutions, and he can't even realize what Islam really is - and what it means.
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 540
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 7:08:50 PM
That shows the type of lack of knowledge of other cultures and religions I am talking about.That man is the product of your best institutions, and he can't even realize what Islam really is - and what it means.
Monty, seriously. WHAT is going on with you? You are not usually this judgmental.


???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????


Incidently, I'm relieved to know that there are no Canadians who are ignorant and with whom you disagree. Because that would be reflective of YOU, right?
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 541
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 7:22:19 PM
How many remarks do we see here in the forums re Canada, and world history that show a lack of understanding of basic facts.

"Guns are illegal here. "

"You are part of Britain."

"We won WW2. "

"FLQ terrorists existing" ( extinct since 1970 or so)

" You are not helping us in our fight" ( We lead the Gulf Naval force for awhile, and our troops are in Afghanistan as we speak - and have been since the invasion there. )

Etc, etc, etc.....

We have shared a common continent for about 150 years, had an border that has been unguarded. We are neighbors, and good ones.

I would bet the average Canadian here knows the USA better than the average American knows Canada. Right or wrong ? That's because your media is predominent.

When we decided not to go into Iraq, your Ambassador here "lectured" us on the wisdom of that decision publically - as if we were children, and not equals that had made a choice based on the facts as we saw them.

Our contributions in the war against terror were not even mentioned. Nor was the fact that 100's of Canadian families went to airports on 9/11 and brought American strangers into their homes. On their own.... Because we were family, and friends, and were needed.

When we were fighting the Germans for more than two years while you sat it out militarily - no Canadians were "lecturing" Americans on the wisdom of that.

Same thing in WW1 - we were fighting three years there before American forces showed up.

No one called anyone a weasel over it.

Nit,

A top general in the most important war we have fought since WW2 does not even know that Muslims and Christians worship the same God - and then shows that by trying to DEMEAN another's religion by an ignorant comment like that ?

You support this ?

JUst check out " Talking to Americans" to see what I mean.

http://home.comcast.net/~wwwstephen/americans/

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2001/june/talking_to_americans.php

"
A segment on This Hour Has 22 Minutes. Rick Mercer goes to parts of the states where supposedly intelligent americans can be found and asks them questions about Canada like:
Should the Canadian government ban the practice of Tête du Merde where senior citizens are placed on iceflows and left to perish?
Should the UN send peace keepers into Saskatchewan to protect civilians from the Russian Invasion?
Should the Seal Hunt on Saskatchewan's iceflows be stopped?
Should the Irish be allowed to vote in Canada?
Canada's Metric Calendar results in our New Year being on February 30, would you like to be there to celebrate a second time after celebrating somwhere else on January 1.

One day, Rick Mercer had people congratulating Canada on various things. This included:

FM radio for the first time!
Running water in all five states!
Canada's first volunteer fire station!
One of my other favorites was the time when he asked people about some fishing dispute, and whether the fish belonged to Alaska or Newfoundland. He got lots of "they should share them" type responses. It was great.

 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 542
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 7:43:57 PM
Thanks Monty,...I have brought up many of these points and never had anyone from the states respond to them,...

Here in Halifax,..almost all of the flights that were heared to Boston and New york were diverted here,...That was about 7000 people who were stranded here for up to 4 days,..

The call came out about 10 am that they were needing families to open up their homes and take in these stranded travelers,....before noon another call came out over the radio to stop calling,...that they had more than enough homes,....

We have done that a number of times over the years and without hesitation,...
the same result,..the time priorto that was when the swiss air jet crashed near our Peggy's cove,....we took in the families of the the people who died in that crash,....

No one asked for a police check for the people they brought into their homes,...most people are nice descent folks but I'm guessing killers,..and rapist have been known to fly too,...
and since that was befor all the restrictions imposed on travelers, so some of them might even have had,...nail clippers or knives or whatever weapons,...on them

we housed them, fed them watered them and showed them around,....
without expecting anything in return,....
I was very proud both times to be a Canadian and a maritimer,....

and you are right about our knowing more about the States than their citizens know about us,...Rick Mercer's,..."Talking to Americans" proved that time and time again,...

As Canadians we are hospitable, generous, peaceable and rarely do we toot our own horn,...
but occasionally it's called for,....


 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 543
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 7:44:07 PM
Monty

There are "versions" of history. People report what they see, and cling to what is taught to them. Here in the US we have a division in public schools between what is taught in the North with respect to the Civil War, and what is taught in the South. Ironically, all historical accounts are accurate ... from a particular philosophical / political perspective.
If you feel we are somehow ignorant of Canadian contributions it certainly wouldn't hurt to try to educate us. I admit I know very little about Canada, and yes I have been there and noticed a distinct difference in attitudes when I crossed over the border. That is not to say that my experience was unlike anything I'd encountered in the US though. I'm from a small town in Kentucky, and to be perfectly honest what I encountered was nothing more than "my hometown" with an accent, 10 degrees colder.
I understand your passion for your country, I feel the same for mine ... just a little tip though, informing us with your version of the facts would likely be much more effective if your attitude didn't suggest the need to be praised for contributions rather than simply recognized. Remember we Americans are the most arrogant nation in the world...
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 544
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 7:54:08 PM

Nit,

A top general in the most important war we have fought since WW2 does not even know that Muslims and Christians worship the same God - and then shows that by trying to DEMEAN another's religion by an ignorant comment like that ?

You support this ?
Monty, don't put words in my mouth.

So, compiling a list of misstatements and errors about Canada shows ... what, exactly? Someone on another thread gave a wildly inaccurate number for the population of Canada, and when called on it, he said he was just quoting you. So... perhaps not everyone is as perfect as you'd like. Even you. (Although you're on an awfully high pony about Americans, lately.) I really don't get exactly what you're out to prove. seriously.)

You're turning into they guy that you used to keep in line.

Ciao
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 545
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/16/2005 7:58:26 PM
I guess two great minds think alike eh? Monty

I was writing my response at the same time you added the Rick Mercer part,...

My personal favorite was when he went to Washington DC to let them know about our new Ice Parliament buildings',...upcoming grand opening,....sheesh



Also just for fun sometimes ask somebody (Canadian)to name you all the
American presidents since JFK,...and to name you all the prime Ministers since Diefenbaker

Sometime we know more about Americans than even we know about our own country...
let's keep that our little secret though ok?
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 546
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/17/2005 6:45:06 AM
The funny thing is that you missed an important part of my viewpoint. It was not a negative thing, it's natural and it's also your strongest point as a nation.

That is what has allowed you to achieve so many great things. All you have to do to solve a problem, is tell an American that it is impossible.

It's natural. I would even go as far as to say that if you asked most Canadians what their legal rights were if stopped by a policeman - they would probably recite Miranda.

Your nation is like this beacon that beams itself around the world. It overshadows most other cultures. Most of us watch your media and love it. You love it too. That gives us a huge advantage over you, as we sit in this cultural shadow watching the show.

We know a lot about you, but our news and media is nowhere near as powerful and attractive as yours. That leaves you at a severe disadvantage.

You have to admit, it's hilarious to have this nation sitting to the North of you for as long as we have - and we are almost in a black hole, as far as you are concerned. The strange thing is, in recent polls, Canadians and Americans matched very closely in their views. That surprised many here, but it isn't that surprising.

You can see one example here in Quebec, with our language laws. These were put into place to protect the French language. French Canadians ( we have a legal system in Quebec based on the Napolianic code, btw. Unique in this country.) saw little problem with it, thanks to their base in a mindset of collective rights over individual rights.

English Canadians had a HUGE problem with it, partly because of the influence that the American model of individual rights has had on them. The French have not been exposed to that in quite the same way as a group. That is just one example. I could quote more.

During the referendums here, American media gave it almost zero coverage. Thank God for Peter Jennings. A country, right beside you, nearly split in two. It would have been nasty, and the repercusions would have been very large.

It got perhaps three minutes on one newscast ( aside from Jennings) .

I am just surprised that you see this as an attack on your country - because it really isn't. It's an example of cultural filters at work - and we have them too. It was not said in a statement of superiority at all, yet it was taken that way.

I am a very big fan of the USA, and there is a lot of good there. Canadians could learn a bit about pride of country from our neighbors to the south. I am very " American" in my patriotism for my country. I wear my flag proudly.

That is very unusual here - especially in Quebec.

Getting back to the original topic, that is why very restrictive gun control is impossible to imagine in the USA. It's those filters at work again. The individuals right to have as much of an a***nal as they want ( with certain restrictions legally) is seen as far more important than the society's right to be protected from the abuse of firearms.

That is the Canadian viewpoint based on OUR cultural filters. We both see each others laws on firearms as absurd - when taken to the extreme. No one is right or wrong - it's those darn filters that make us see the other guy as wrong.

Hope this clarifies things.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 547
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/17/2005 9:32:44 AM
Monty

Not trying to pick a fight, but "WE" don't see your firearm laws as absured. I understand your type of government to be more or less a democracy, with the emphasis on, as you refer to it, "collective rights over individual rights". The absurdity comes into play when you can't seem to acknowledge that we are not like Canadians. We do not have the same type of government, the same type of mentality, or the same type of culture. You went on a serious rant several posts back about some US citizens / officials not understanding foreign culture, and to be quite honest, I think you're suffering from a mild case of the same affliction.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 548
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/17/2005 10:00:46 AM
^^ This is a really odd attitude for a "free thinking" American to have and the double standards never cease to amaze me. What I find most odd is how protective American people get of their laws and way of life when outsiders try to tell them what is right for them and what is not. I suppose given the examples here one could also apply that to how some people living in third world nations must feel when American customs and ideologies are being imposed on them. The bottom line is no ONE likes an outsider telling them how to run their own family. This example should be kept fresh in our minds when "we" cry "murder" everytime "we" don't agree with other nations' politics.

As for the "generalizations" Montguy has made re American people I have to admit I have had very similar experiences as he has and it's hard not to form a general impression of a social group when you keep meeting memebers of it that paint a very consistent picture of how they are.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 549
view profile
History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/17/2005 10:11:02 AM
excellent points,...and I agree,...

I remember when the us dropped these yellow boxes of food on Afganistan,....

inside there were among other things packages of peanut butter and crackers,....
now I'm sure they meant well and I know peanut butter is nutricious,..but,...

if you had never even heard of the stuff and you open up a package
and see it for the first time,.....just imagine what must be going through your mind,...

good for you or not,..let's face it,..it does look like sh*t,...

The good will gesture would have been better if they had looked into the diet of the people and dropped food they actually know,...and eat,...I'm sure it could have been done

sorry for the side track,...but I couldn't help it,....



 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 550
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/17/2005 4:42:38 PM
Gotta make a quick comment here: the whole idea of a civil society with government and laws and all that is a surrendering of individual rights to collective rights. The reason you can't go to your neighbour, bonk him on the head and take his plasma screen TV and his wife is that you have surrendered your individual right to do that, so your neighbour can't do that to you. It's just weird that the government has the right to see what books you take out of the library, but the same branch of counter terrorism isn't allowed to see what weaponry you've bought.
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