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 mdew22
Joined: 11/23/2004
Msg: 711
Re: Gun ControlPage 35 of 50    (10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50)
i own a lot of guns. and im always going to. i want them for protcion and hunting. i have them all loaded too. so if you break in my house you are dead. period. killing ppl has been going on sence the stone age. and radicals are the ones that kill. if you dont like it in this country please move to irag or iran. you will be dead before sunset.

mdew22
 mikedanger
Joined: 4/13/2005
Msg: 712
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 2/20/2006 4:51:43 PM
i'm sorry jessi, my point was that LEGAL gun owners are much more likely to teach their children well....
 mycorosso
Joined: 1/11/2005
Msg: 713
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 2/23/2006 11:02:39 AM
Gun Control...?

Sounds to me that the "International Tell You What to do Division" should consider some electronic mouse and keyboard control. My goodness it is apparent some posters here were denied parental control on the common sense lessons of life. Register your computer with your favorite government so they can make sure ignorant statements and views are reported and delt with immediately.

OT: The only reason some people are alive is because murder is illegal. How's that for gun control?
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 714
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/19/2006 12:18:38 PM
It is the duty of the police to protect the public. However, the public is under the misconception that the police are always able to protect us. I agree with taurus-- the citizens also have to take responsibility for their own safety. That could mean an alarm system, a guard dog, a neighborhood watch program, and, as a last resort, a gun.

Criminals, in general, are not afraid of the police-- they are easy to identify and avoid. They are afraid of citizens who are able to protect themselves.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 716
view profile
History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 1:12:06 AM
Seriously though,Guns are not the problem.Criminals with guns are the problem.??????????
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Give me a break!!!! the easy availability of guns is the problem,....

because it isn't JUST the criminals who use them,....and kill with them,....
sometimes,...it's the stupid but law abiding people,...who grab their guns before dialing 911,....That kill and mame people too,.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a "CWP" (Conceald Weapons Permit)but i never carry my gun unless i'm going some where i feel uncomfortable....(Destryridesagain)????????????????
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the thing,...if you don't have a gun stapped to your hip,...to walk arround with,.....you stay out of places that make you uncomfortable,.....simple,....

It certainly seems smarter than the mind set that if someone even thinks of messin' with you,...you know you can blow them out of their boots,.... sheesh!!
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 717
view profile
History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 4:06:40 AM
We have rural areas, (which I have lived in,....and my comfort was in the fact I knew everybody)....
and parking duplexes,....and very big cities ( I have lived in Toronto,..Ottawa,..Hamilton,...and Halifax),...and even an unsavory and criminal elements,....
even in Toronto I never felt unsafe walking about at any hour of the day or night,....

but we also know since we don't all walk around with guns the chances of our being shot is not that great,...that's not to say there are no people who get shot here it just fairly rare,....

and we don't have to come accross people who have the mindset that shoting first is the best course of action,....

So while you shoot first,....and then figure things out,....

I will continue to feel a lot safer with my cell phone,...rather than a gun,.....
and BTW,...here pepper spay isn't an option either,....because non police can't carry it and if you are found to,...you get arrested,....

also in the 50 plus years I have been walking upright,...
I haven't spent much of it feeling that I am a target,....
and I do and have walked (or driven),...outside at all times of the night,...
I do most of my grocery shopping at 3 am,....when the store is nice and quiet,....

BTW I have been in a couple of near misses,...as far as bad situations to be in,....over the years,...but a gun wouldn't have made the outcome any better,....

and even in this Country you can get a permit to carry,...but,...before you do you either have to have a badge,...or have proof of threat of imminent danger,...nothing short of that gets you one,.....
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 718
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 6:32:37 AM
If Americans want to have free access to guns, it's their business.

We can get them here too, contrary to popular opinon in some parts of the USA. I could purchase a rifle or shotgun, and have it in thirty days, if I felt the need to have one.

I would not have access to rapid fire weapons, or handguns.

I would undergo a thirty day security check by the police, including talking to the people I work with - ( and within a certain time frame, any ex-wives or girlfriends). I'd be expected to take a course on handling weapons, and to keep the weapon secure.

My freedom to purchase a weapon exists, and I have a legal right to own one.

I don't have to have a 357 Magnum, or an assault weapon. I don't need to get a weapon in thirty minutes, with only the minimum research on my potential danger to society in having one. A firearm is an incredibly dangerous weapon, in the wrong hands. I don't think that the restrictions in place for ownership are too harsh.

As I have said many times, I work with the police regularly, and respond to hold up alarms. Over my entire career, I have perhaps only seen a few occasions where a firearm was used. Normally it's a knife, baseball bat, or " finger in the pocket". You can kill a person with anyone of those things ( OK, perhaps not the finger) , but it's much harder and messier - and thus less likely to occur.

That tells me the system works exceptionally well here, and that I don't have to face the threat of someone with a firearm. That is about as common here as winning the lottery, or getting hiit by lightening.

Does it happen ? Certainly.

Just in incredibly small numbers, as our statistics show.

If Americans want to live their lives differently, it's totally their right to do so.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 719
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 7:53:12 AM
I told this story before of one of our employees in our Vermont office. He's an American, and shared it at a Christmas party one year.

He was driving along, going to a meeting. He had his pistol on the dash, and suddenly he heard a siren. A state trooper pulled him over, and walked over to the car to give him a speeding ticket.

He saw the pistol, and asked " Is it loaded ? "

My friend said " Is yours ?"

Then they talked about their guns for about ten minutes, and compared modifications, experiences, etc. At the end, no ticket was given...

For the Canadians present ( the majority) , that was just one of those "roll your eyes" type stories about living in the USA. For one, I could not even imagine driving around with a loaded weapon on my dash, nor making a comment to a police officer like that one.

It's like when I call an American client about an alarm. They go ( many times) , " OK, I'll get my gun, and go down there right now... "

Seen from our perspective, that's just so strange...
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 720
view profile
History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 8:23:52 AM
and when it comes to the waiting period and the background check,....

why aren't more people up at arms for not getting a driver's liscence with the vehicle,....
to drive a car,...also a deadly weapon,..we have to show proficciency in the proper use of the car,....

when you get a liscence for a gun,..how come this isn't the case too,...like proving you can take it appart clean it properly and use it correctly?

I just don't think that's such an unreasonable thing,...and you have to liscence your car every year why not your gun,....in my opinion since our cars have to be checked every year for road safety,...how about having to show the guns you own to verify you still have them and they are in proper working order and condition,...
OOOOHHHHH I bet I'm going to get a lot of boooohs for that one,.....
 mycorosso
Joined: 1/11/2005
Msg: 721
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 8:26:37 AM
No Boos here. That would prolly not be practical. Driving is a privelage. Having guns is a right! Big difference.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 722
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 8:36:51 AM
I agree it wouldn't be practicall,..but I disagree about the rights part,....

I mean you may have the right to have a long rifle as the writers of the constitution understood weapons,...but a magnum 45,...or an automatic assault riffle they could not have even in their wildest dreams have thought of nor condone for anyone who wants one by right,....
 mycorosso
Joined: 1/11/2005
Msg: 723
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 8:50:08 AM
You can disagree but I will direct you to our constitution and bill of rights, etc. It's in the second or fourth amendment. So you are wrong to disagree. Been a right for a long time. I hope you are aware of that and not just being like a school girl whom doesn't belive in Santa or somethin'. I do understand you may think it shouldn't be a right but to disagree that it is is a poor choice of words.

Ot/ Gun control- hold steady, breathe and just squeeze the trigger.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 724
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 9:14:26 AM
The type of firearm is immaterial. If one is not going to shoot you with a single-shot firearm, they're not going to shoot you with an autoloader.(MMMBaby!)

do you really think a ten year old is able to not only shlepp a long gun,..never mind reloding it,...to get back at someone who called him a bad name????????

have you ever checked how many gun death's have a child who got at the gun,...
something tells me an automatic 32 is a lot easyer to fire than what the old dead white guys had in their day,....trust me,..it does make a difference,...

Try hiding a long gun and gunpwder bag and bag of balls not to mention the long stick to shove it all down the barrel wit,....under your coat,...

and yes,......A 12 ga. shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot is more formidable than ANY handgun. Let's put an end to the fairy tales...(MMMBaby!)

however that's not really the inter city weapon of choice,...now is it?
and you might be surprised to learn also how many legaly optained guns are used in a crime,....sometimes even perpatrated against the guns owner,....
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 726
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/23/2006 9:53:42 AM

Canada

Low Range Estimates

= 2,400,000 firearms owners
= 7,200,000 firearms

Medium Range Estimates
= 3,100,000 firearms owners
= 9,000,000 firearms

High Range Estimates

= 3,800,000 firearms owners
= 11,000,000 firearms

http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/GunsinCanada.htm


Population of Canada ? Roughly 32.5 million people.




Year ( 1998)

Canada US US/CAN

Population 30.2 m 270 m 8.9x


Number 7.4 m 222 m 30x
of All
Firearms

Handguns 1.2 m (restricted firearms) 76 m 63.3x

Guns per capita .25 .82 3.3x

Firearms Death
(Rate per 100,000)* 0.2 0.3 1.5x

Suicides 3.4 6.4 1.9x
with Firearms
(1998)

Total Firearms 4.3 11.4 2.7x
Deaths
(1998)

Crime Statistics
(Rate per 100,000)

Murders
with Firearms 0.5 4.4 7.9x
(1998)

Murders
with Handguns 0.23 3.3 14.5x
(1998 )

Murders 1.3 2.3 1.8x
without Guns
(1998 )

Robberies
with Guns 18 63 3.5x
(1998 )

Roberries 78 102 1.3x
without Guns
(1998)

Overall Homicide 1.83 6.62 3.6x
rate per 100,000
(1998)

% of homicides 27.3% 66% 2.4x
with firearms
(1998)



% of firearm 46% 75% 1.6x
homicides
with handguns
(1998)





Canada has always had stronger firearms regulation than the United States, particularly with respect to handguns. In Canada, handguns have been licensed and registered since the 1930’s, ownership of guns has never been regarded as a right and several court rulings have reaffirmed the right of the government to protect citizens from guns. Handgun ownership has been restricted to police, members of gun clubs or collectors. Very few (about 50 in the country) have been given permits to carry handguns for "self-protection." This is only possible if an applicant can prove that their life is in danger and the police cannot protect them.

As a result, Canada has roughly 1 million handguns while the United States has more than 76 million. While there are other factors affecting murder, suicide and unintentional injury rates, a comparison of data in Canada and the United States suggests that access to handguns may play a role. While the murder rate without guns in the US is roughly equivalent (1.8 times) to that of Canada, the murder rate with handguns is 14.5 times the Canadian rate. The costs of firearms death and injury in the two countries have been compared and estimated to be $495 (US) per resident in the United States compared to $195 per resident in Canada.


http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm


Just a side by side comparison shows the value of our system, and how it suits our culture. As I said before, if Americans want to all walk around with guns, that should be no concern of ours - until those guns get shipped illegally across the border.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 728
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History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/24/2006 4:05:23 AM
First of all,....thank you oh so condescending one,....( MMMBaby!),...
but as it happens had you checked you would have found out,..I too am a Canadian,....

and I too have wandered through the web site you listed,....

Certain handguns for use in international sporting competitions are excluded from the prohibition affecting the short-barreled and 25 or 32 calibre handguns. These handguns therefore are considered restricted firearms under the Criminal Code.
***( restricted doesn't mean you can't purchase one,....if used for the above)***
It's because of our strickt restrictions with fire arms,...that I feel safe,...not in spite of them,...

My previous comment was actually referring to our neighbours south of the border,....and incidents of deaths involving guns and children's access to them are not nearly as rare as here,....

I agree with our laws,....and their restrictions when it comes to guns,....
and God knows we have as many of them as a Nation as Americans do,...per capita,....but even though we do have people shot and killed every year,....we don't have anywhere near the numbers our neighbours have,....actually I think it may even be possible that combined they have more gun related deaths every year that all the countries combined on which we have stats,....(just a guess)

another guess is my reason for the no handguns in the forrest rule,...
I suspect it's because permitts to transport are not handed out to anyone who wants them,...in fact they are about as rare as hen's teeth to get,..unless your in Law enforcement,...security,..a buisiness owner,....or your life has been threatened,....

otherwise you can only take a handgun from your home to the firing range and back,....
and that's straight there and straight back,....no road trip detour,....

 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 729
view profile
History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/24/2006 6:53:18 AM
Actually, just to really point out the differences in Canadian and American viewpoints on weapons, here are some facts that might really "freak out" some of our friends to the south.


It is a criminal offence to transport a loaded firearm in a vehicle [OIC JUS-92-193-02 9, 10, and 11 and Criminal Code s. 86(3)].



In Canada following regulations apply:

* A gun is classified as a firearm, if its velocity is high enough for a fired projectile to penetrate the eye of a pig (grievous bodily harm). Using this test, it has been determined by the RCMP, that Airsoft guns firing under 407 ft/s (124 m/s) are not firearms.

* However, Airsoft guns that closely resemble Real firearms are classified as Replica firearms and can only be imported by companies possessing a Business Firearms License. It is unlawfull to sell or transfer Replica Firearms without this license.

* Airsoft guns firing between 407 ft/s and 500 ft/s (124 to 152 m/s), are classified as Uncontrolled Firearms and do not require licensing. Above 500 ft/s and 5.7 joules, Airsoft guns are considered Controlled Firearms and must be registered.

* Airsoft used to commit a crime is treated as if you had the real gun, assault weapons carry an extra mandatory sentence in addition to the regular punishment for the crime committed.


You can't buy ammunition without a firearm permit. ( That actually surprised me...in a good way. )


Since January 1, 2001, individuals who want to buy or receive ammunition must have a firearms licence.

This includes:

* a valid FAC
* a possession-only licence
* a possession and acquisition licence
* a minor's licence
* a non-resident's temporary borrowing licence
* a non-resident's confirmed declaration



Storing Firearms
Non-Restricted Firearms

Non-restricted firearms must be stored:

1. unloaded; AND
2. - unable to be fired (by using a secure locking device or by removing the bolt or bolt carrier); OR

- locked in a sturdy, secure, container or room that cannot be easily broken open or into; AND

3. in a place where ammunition for the firearms is not easy to obtain. Ammunition can be stored with the firearm, if the ammunition is stored in a securely locked container that cannot be easily broken open or into.

Number 2 (above) does not apply if the firearms are being stored TEMPORARILY for predator control, in an area where it is lawful to discharge firearms.

Numbers 2 and 3 (above) do not apply if the firearms are being stored IN REMOTE WILDERNESS AREAS. Firearms must still be stored unloaded (number 1).



POSSESSION AND ACQUISITION

1. The applicant and one other person who has known the applicant for at least 1 year must sign a statement confirming that an accompanying photo (of the applicant) accurately identifies the applicant.
2. Two people (other than a spouse) must sign a statement confirming that they have known the applicant for at least three years and to the best of their knowledge and belief:

* the information in the application is true;
* the applicant does not pose a threat to public safety.

3. The applicant must provide the name, current address and telephone number of every spouse or common-law partner with whom the applicant has lived during the past two years. If their whereabouts are unknown, the applicant must make a written statement (on the form) to that effect. (Spouses and common-law partners will be notified about the application.)

4. There is a minimum 28-day waiting period unless the applicant has a valid FAC or licence.

5. Applicants must show proof that safety course requirements have been met.

There are additional requirements for restricted and prohibited firearms.




Canada allows the import of ammuntion for personal use. The import of hollow-point ammunition labelled for use in handguns requites written authorization from Natural Resources Canada. It's a safe bet that Canada Customs will consider any hollow-point ammunition in a caliber used by handguns (including .22!) to fall under this, even if you are using it in a long gun.


Section 87 of our criminal code makes it a crime to even point a firearm at anyone, including things like replica weapons, and airsoft/air rifles. Even a gun which cannot fire any ammunition still would break the law.


Technically, paintball is a criminal act here in Canada ( although no one enforces it...)

If you want to know some of the reasons why our gun related crimes and deaths are so low - that's just a few of them.

Firearm deaths here are primarily suicides, accidents, criminals shooting other criminals, and the result of domestic/family violence. Sometimes an innocent person is shot accidently ( most typically in gang related shootings) , but that is rather rare - and headline news.

Stranger on stranger firearm homicides (and even non-firearm homicides) are almost unknown here.

As far as I am concerned, it works quite well for us. One can still have a firearm, if you are willing to prove capable of accepting all the responsibilities it implies.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 730
view profile
History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 5/24/2006 11:31:57 AM
Thanks I stand corrected,....

 sd_matt
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 731
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/19/2006 5:37:44 PM
Before people propose solutions to gun crime they should get a reality check. Get it from the horses mouth. Ask a police officer who works the street if he thinks that illegalizing all firearms will stop gun crime. I have but Im not going to tell. You all need to ask for yourselves.

By the same token go and sit in on an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting or a Narctotics Anonymous meeting and ask them just how dangerous pot is. Ask them what their "gateway" was into drug/alcohol abuse was.

Gun Control, War of Drugs=divide and conquer.
 ransaktank666
Joined: 8/4/2006
Msg: 732
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/19/2006 5:58:40 PM
That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard come from somebody, let alone someone who purports to have a keen insight on self protection techniques. Suicide?.......obviouslly you aren't the smartest person on the block on that subject either, drugs would be alot better way to go, just go to sleep. Nice try at the guilt trip throwing the kids in the mix I almost got a tear in my eye. hahaha
Truth....When I was in grade school we took guns to school for show and tell. Not one person was even shot by accident. Go figure. Reason...... We were taught about guns and gun safety, we didn't have a long haired hippy flashback from the 70's acid trippin' dad that didn't even know how to discipline his kids let alone teach us something about life and death. There are better ways to protect yourself, but if the criminal knows I have a loaded and****d gun under My pillow and in the waistband of my pants, and 1 in every room in the house, I wont have to protect myself, he's not going to take the chance of getting killed over a 50.00 dvd player, no he's going to your house and taking anything he wants, including your life, if he wants.
 ransaktank666
Joined: 8/4/2006
Msg: 733
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/19/2006 6:03:23 PM
Canadian? your probablly french also, Preach to your government we have a different COSTITUTION than yours. Don't like it? stick your head in the sand like the real french do....maybe it will all go away, More likely a group of 30 thugs will hold your city at bay. that sort of thing would never happen here.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 734
view profile
History
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/20/2006 5:38:53 AM
There are better ways to protect yourself, but if the criminal knows I have a loaded and****d gun under My pillow and in the waistband of my pants, and 1 in every room in the house, I wont have to protect myself, he's not going to take the chance of getting killed over a 50.00 dvd player, no he's going to your house and taking anything he wants, including your life, if he wants.


That's why, with more prisons, police officers,handguns and automatic weapons, a right to carry concealed weapons (in many states), and easier use of deadly force under the law....you still have a 250 % greater chance of being killed by someone.


Country Homicide Rate (per 100,000)


Britain 1.6 (2004/05)

Canada 2.0 (2005)

Scotland 2.7 (2004/05)

United States 4.8 (2005)

Russia 19.0 (2003)

Columbia 39.0 (2005)


Montreal's homicide rate ( they speak French a lot here, btw...) was ..... 1.3 , which is insane, considering how we are only able to defend ourselves against the raging hordes of barbarians by throwing our stale croissants at them, n'est pas ?

Strangely enough, three entire nations with strict gun laws all beat the mighty USA in having less murders per capita - but I guess there's no connection at all in those facts.

As I've said many times in this discussion, if you Americans all want to carry Desert Eagles around, and it makes you feel better...feel free. Just make sure they stay within your borders, and effect only US citizens, and I won't have a problem.

It's your country, and yours to run the way you want to.

I'll feel safer here, while you do that.


Compared to the United States Canada has lower rates of violent crime such as murder and rape, but a higher rate of assault. Through the 1990s, the homicide rate in the United States was three times higher than it was in Canada, while the American rate for aggravated assault was double the Canadian rate. The rate for robberies was 65% higher in the United States.

Rates of property crime are more comparable with higher rates of motor vehicle and bicycle theft in Canada and similar rates of shoplifting. Canada also has a higher rate of arson. Some of this may be connected to Canadians being more likely to report property crimes to police than Americans. A 1995 survey by the International Crime Victim Survey found the gap between the countries shrank when the population was directly surveyed about their experiences.

The United States has about triple the per capita number of arrests for drug related crimes. Actual rates of drug use are quite similar however, but in the United States far more law enforcement resources are dedicated to the War on Drugs.

Other countries

Canada's crime rate is close to the average of Western Europe, lower than some nations (United Kingdom, Sweden) but higher than others (Spain, France). Canada has several times more crime per capita than Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada



More likely a group of 30 thugs will hold your city at bay. that sort of thing would never happen here.


Something like....New Orleans.... during Katrina ?
 sd_matt
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 735
Re: Gun Control
Posted: 8/20/2006 7:46:38 PM
Horde running around in New Orleans after or during Katrina? I heard on a radio talk show that that turned out to be false. Cant remember which one though.

For Britian there are studies from the government and universities that contradict each other.
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