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Joined: 1/30/2008
Msg: 120
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?Page 8 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?

Fun Question !

The more I explore the realm of ancient culture, I find myself believing our history is a little more complex than, the standard time line of present day theories.

What do I mean –ok I’ll spell it out—I believe we’ve been ascending, not descending--from culturally significant societies for over 100,000 years. Maybe a little less or maybe a lot longer—

OPs question begs another,, why is it that, the world is segregated into features described as Arian, Asian, Negro –I know, I know—common theory is climate related characteristics.

But consider this—how long does it take to physically transcend from –say a
San bushman to a Norseman ?— If we were able to stroll out of Africa, then why didn’t we re-mix back and forth—creating a highbred --did we draw lines in the sand and stop reverse migration ?—Why are physical characteristics of people at the same latitudes with the same climate, different ?

There’s a problem here !!
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 121
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/15/2012 10:29:45 AM
The Aryan thing comes from ancient Vedic texts from about 1,500 BC unless I miss my guess. Those texts were describing events that occurred thousands of years prior to them being recorded. Sorting out the religion from the facts is an ongoing effort. I only did a cursory study of this stuff and that was a long time ago but my understanding of it is that the aboriginal peoples of India were essentially egalitarian agronomists with an earth-based religion. Then one day a warrior race descended from the mountains in the north and completely kicked everyone's ass. They took over and brought with them a celestial religion in addition to other nifty stuff like weapons and armour, etc. Over time, the cultures blended and formed the foundation of modern Indian culture. There was also a mass migration described where these "Aryans" from the north continued on their way in the four cardinal directions.

The group that went West would have hit Europe, in the Danube region, right about the same time as the earliest "Western" cultures started to show up on the scene. These are the groups that settled and became the early Gauls and Celts. I don't think there is any scientific evidence to link the stories with our limited understanding of population movements during those times but it is interesting none the less. I suppose Hitler liked these stories too. Aryan is a term used by ancient scholars to describe a fairer skinned tribe of technologically and culturally advanced invaders who transformed the lowlands of India. They were not, tall, blonde Norsemen out of Wagnerian operas however. Nor were they spacemen.

The notion that climate can explain everything in the ancient past is known as environmental determinism and it's a hallmark of lazy thinking. The environment is one factor to be sure, but to sit back and assume that this is what drives human diversity and can account for cultural diversity across the planet is just myopic. This is why you are having trouble reconciling the fact that populations at similar latitudes and climates can appear so vastly different. It isn't the environment that "determines" anything, it's just another factor in the development of human populations.

Another important thing to remember is that slavery was sadly, widespread and commonplace in the ancient past. With the taking of slaves, you also get the spread of culture, religion and DNA. The Gallatians from the Bible were a real group of people. Gauls who settled in the Mediterranean region bringing their culture with them. Archaeology has numerous examples of odd things that turn up where we would not expect them to be. Things like Norse metal ware in Thule villages, Egyptian chairs in Norse homes, obsidian from the Pacific Northwest on the other side of the continent, and many, many other examples. Early peoples were heavily involved in trade, just like now. So when we talk about massive migrations of human populations, we have to remember that this was always influenced by trade and culture. As much as people needed to find unclaimed territories, they also needed other humans to trade with so they could get the stuff they needed to survive and prosper.
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 122
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/16/2012 8:52:34 PM
Question: Don't these genetic tests on your dna history only give you half that history? If your woman, your mom's side and your female ancestors and if you are a man your dad's side and male ancestors? If your parents have differing backgrounds (that even they themselves may not be aware of) these tests don't give an individual truly accurate pictures of their complete background.

I think we need more data to come to conclusions if the above assumption is correct. There could be all kinds of hybridization going on that could lead to some answers.
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 123
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/16/2012 9:19:04 PM
The use of the word hybrid in this sort of conversation makes me very uncomfortable. A "hybrid" is something that you might find when different species find a way to mate and have offspring. All human beings belong to the same species, there are no hybrids, just more humans. Even with limited knowledge of the ancient past, we can already see that all notions of "purity" are total bunk. Humanity has already been proven to be a pack of mongrels who will jump on just about anything they can

If there was such a thing a "pure race" amongst us, they would have died off a very long time ago since any virus or disease that affected one would take them all out. Our genetic diversity makes us strong and keeps us safe. If you want to believe in "hybrids" then you must conclude that every one of us is a hybrid between nothing and nothing.
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 124
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2012 10:51:14 AM

Science recognizes varieties among homo sapiens. Same for dogs. If you think not, then
you should demand that Oxford, Harvard, Stanford, etc., close down their anthropology

Your vague insinuations and recycled wrong facts signify nothing.

Performance differences along make it interesting. How many White
running backs in the NFL*. Nuture or nature?

What do your fantasies about homo runningbackus have to do with the thread topic?

Why do Blacks continually test at lower intellectual
levels then Whites or Asians? It is suggested that "racism" is a reflection of a groups tendency to
mate with similar types therefore protecting those attributes that made them successful. Inherent.
*google Jon Entine's acclaimed book on sports performance, "The Last Taboo".

If there's a relationship between between vaguely racist 'suggestions' that ignore all other possible variables and rhetorical questions about undefined ethnic groups and the thread topic, perhaps you could spell it out.

Though I suppose the nonsensical gibberish you spew onto the forums might all just be camouflage? Perhaps the real point of your post is to promote a poorly researched book that reaches fallacious conclusions based on selective highlighting of erroneous factoids.
Joined: 6/23/2008
Msg: 125
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2012 12:08:20 PM
"Your vague insinuations and recycled wrong facts signify nothing."

Lyingcheat I really dont understand why this guy keeps trying to debate his nontheory with you and the other educated guys on this forum. You are running circles around him. His mind is too blocked with darkness and hatred to listen to you. You cannot penetrate hatred. Its malignant and necrotic. Thats the best way to describe his character. The sad thing is there are so many people who would still agree with him to satisfy their own racists desires about race, denying the fact that we all are connected to a common source. Its really sickening. What an idiot.
Joined: 6/23/2008
Msg: 126
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2012 12:12:42 PM
Fredforties and Lyingcheat. I love the way you beat down ballard with educated facts. Its such a joy to watch the ignorant be defeated.
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 127
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2012 10:52:04 PM

Recall just a few years back when the medical community admitted it made a terrible mistake when they
did not develop race-specific treatments.

Do you have a meaningful citation for that?
By meaningful I mean not some terrified bigots book, an article off stromfront or majorityrights, or an opinion piece you found on
You know, an actual authoritative statement by an official body that represents the diverse global "medical community", seeing you are implying that's who "admitted" its 'error'.

our genetic diversity keeps the h.sapiens line safe...ish on the assumption that a disease may not wipe us all out. there cannot be any doubt that certain races (i am really happy with the term) are equipped differently when it comes to resistance to disease - a product of diverging evolutionary pathways as we separate and head in different directions... geographical separation.
(my emphasis)
I'm not 'happy' with the term since the implications of it are unsupported and other, less loaded, terms are more factually accurate. No one is denying that different ethnic groups exist, but no one has yet shown these amount to separate 'races' of the species homo sapiens. 'Geographical separation' has been a factor in the past as well, and still is for some groups through reasons of either remoteness (Amazonian jungles) or choice (Japan). Though 'remoteness' is not always necessary to produce 'separation' - the Old Order Amish are a self-selected breeding group living within a much larger population.
Does that mean each Amazonian tribe is a separate 'race'? They're collectively a separate 'race' even though they don't seem to have mixed with each other for very long periods of their 'separation'? The Japanese are a 'race'? The Old Order Amish are a 'race'?

If one tries to answer the above questions one is led to the conclusion that a (taxonomically precise) definition of 'race' is required. One then encounters the difficulty that either no grouping of homo sapiens fits it, or so many do that one is forced to conclude that every family is a separate race.
Both conclusions are obviously nonsensical and meaningless.

lets get over any queasiness about race. it is a very different thing from racism. speciation is a difficult subject in very closely related 'species'... at what point does a species become distinct? the high school answer is when they cannot interbreed and produce viable offspring - well sure, simple enough but nothing is actually ever that simple. i know bats and badgers cannot interbreed but consider the arctic herring gull.... starting from greenland, working west, there are, if you like,a number of herring gull races, each slightly different as you head round the arctic circle. each is fertile and viable with its neighbour and perhaps with the neighbour's neighbour until you get all the way round to norway... then the norwegian and greenland gulls cannot produce viable offspring - yet they are related all the way back round the circle...

The historical willingness to divide up animal species using dubious labels is not a good reason to extend the practice, considering that we now know, and can know, much more about the minutiae, and significance, of 'difference'.
Gulls (or 'breeds' of dogs, cows, sheep, etc etc) are not people. Isolated populations of salamander living in remote pockets of water along ancient creek beds are not people. None of these analogues are truly analogous, for various different reasons, to the biological reality of being human.

the nonsense about blacks being somehow inferior smacks of ignorance beyond belief.

It certainly does, on more than one level, since no definition of what a 'black' is is generally offered.
'I-know-one-when-I-see-one' isn't a valid criteria in science, which is what is required for a division of homo sapiens, first into sub-species, then into 'races' below that level.
Considering the above then - how does one go about defining a 'black'?

Have a look at these families and apply your definition of 'black' as an aid to spotting which of them are -

Further to that ^^^ point, if 'black' is a 'race', how can it be conveniently or meaningfully defined to include Pacific Islanders, Australian Aboriginals, Southern, Eastern, Western, and Northern Africans, people from the Caribbean, some Southern Europeans, some South American indigenous people, etc etc along with the children of any two people from either of these groups or children from any of these groups plus a 'white' person (whatever that is) from any of the geographic locations where 'whites' live?

...unless you are an askenasi jew, you, like me, are not one of the most intelligent 'race' on earth.

Once again, the fact that there are significant numbers of Ashkenazi Jews who are of average or low intelligence (as measured by IQ) combined with the fact there are significant numbers of non-Ashkenazi Jews who are of high or exceptional intelligence (as measured by IQ), makes classifying a 'race' by IQ fraught with difficulty.
One might end up concluding that significant numbers of 'Asians' are really Ashkenazi Jews.

of course there are races - but there is no such thing as a master race. if there was, it certainly would not be that white race that sometimes thinks it is...

This ^^^, without supporting evidence, is a series of non-sequitur's.

What exactly are the defining characteristics of the 'white' race? Where are the geographical, and what are genetic borders, that define this alleged 'white' race?

Does it include Basques? Inuit? Seventh generation Maori/Pakeha children?
Recall that 'I-know-one-when-I-see-one' isn't a taxonomically valid criteria for defining such things. Nor is the ability to run fast or do well at individual regional sports.

The fact is we all descend from a group of homo sapiens that migrated out of Africa within the last 70,000 years or so. It is therefore possible to create a genetic genealogy for every individual alive today and demonstrate we all are related to each other.

The Genetics of Humanness: Ed Green - The Neandertal and Denisovan Genomes

From 8.20 minutes/seconds to about 11.03 minutes/seconds listen closely to what Ed Green says. He doesn't mention 'race' at all but he explodes the concept nonetheless as he describes the human (homo sapiens) genetic mosaic.

He first (briefly) explains genetics and inheritance and points out that only 30 generations ago, which according to him is about the middle ages, we all will have had more ancestors than there were people alive. What that means, in his words, is that " coalesce with every other person on the planet you might imagine at some point on your genome".
He also says, within the time frame referred to above - between 8 and 11 minutes, that -
" turns out that you can reconstruct genealogies of any particular haplotype, any particular region in our genome, amongst all people who are alive today. And... in some sense this must be true, there must be this genealogy that unites everyone, you can take any two people (in this room), find the haplotype at some place in their genome and find the time that they had a common ancestor".

So, "Are Caucasians Descendants of Arabs"? Presumably some are, just as some 'Arabs' are descendants of 'Caucasians'. There is no place for erroneously divisive concepts of 'race' in the mosaic that describes the genetic history of homo sapiens.
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 128
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2012 11:00:47 PM
Ballard, isn't there a Klan meeting you should be attending or something? Listening to people like you makes me wish you were right. Saying you are an entirely different species than me might make me sleep better at night. Sadly that isn't the case.

Our species is homo sapiens sapiens and it includes everyone from Inuit hunters to Masai warriors to naked Swedish volleyball players. Humans have the ability to adapt to their surroundings which is why we have successfully infiltrated every part of the globe. Populations that spend time in a particular environment develop resistances to diseases and such in the region. This is natural selection and evolution at work. This is not evidence that any one group is somehow less or more of a homo sapiens sapiens. We are not "evolving" into different species, we are adapting as a species together with all of our strengths and weaknesses.

The syphilis thing isn't nearly as clear cut as some would think either. Anthropology, more specifically archaeology, shows us that syphilis was already in the Old World long before Columbus sailed to the Americas. Science has no conclusion on this question because we don't have enough evidence to say where this disease developed and when. It's being looked into as we speak. What we already know is that syphilis comes in different forms, only one of which is sexually transmitted. Skeletal remains turn up all over the place with hallmark indications of the damage this disease does to it's host.

I strongly encourage Ballard to go and get a DNA analysis done so he can see the evidence of what I'm saying for himself. You will find Native American, African, Asian and all sorts of other wonderful things in there. What you will not find is "pure" anything at all.
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 129
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/18/2012 4:39:44 AM

Wimpy replies and mangled attempts to thwart the impact of reality has reached pathetic levels. Reads like the effusions from clapped-out Kumbayaists sitting around a coffeehouse trying to appear intellectual.

Translation ^^^ - No I can't back up any of the claims I make so I'll babble irrelevantly instead.
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 130
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/20/2012 12:15:22 AM

That will transfer into violent social instability.

Somehow, I get the impression that nothing would please you more.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 131
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/20/2012 5:33:53 AM
@ ballard3240

Blacks are a problem population, here, there, and everywhere. Central African IQ average 75, total instability as in Haiti. Solutions? The only hope for the Black community is for real leaders to appear. No more preachers, activists, etc. Problem is that jobs paying decent wages for low-ability types have vanished. No shipyards, no steelmills.
Doomed unless a radical type of Black leadership arises to pound sense and rules into the community. Better yet
would be a Black Authority to "cleanse" the hood. Would have extraordinary police powers. Not gonna happen yet.

There are too many unstated assumptions with respect to your position on blacks. In the first place, IQ is no indicator of stability within the appropriate social context. Were it so, the only "stable" species on the planet would be perhaps half of the human race and maybe the porpoises, who, owing to their brain volume & complexity are arguably more intelligent than we are (and definitely more "stable" as a species). I think you are assessing central africans & Haitians against white European social structure. Obviously this would be a bad fit, as the socially biased IQ scores would indicate.

Notwithstanding the disadvantage in the cultural setting that has been thrust upon them through colonialism, black leaders have arisen who are entirely competent to lead people even by European standards. Martin Luther King stands as an excellent example of black leadership. In terms of political leaders, in Haiti in particular, there have been great ones, but the imperialist/colonialist mindset (foreign policy) of countries like France, The US and Canada virtually assures that competent leadership will be toppled in favour of corrupt puppets of the conquering regime. A perfect example was the ouster of Aristide in a multinational coup plotted and executed by Canada, France and the US in 2004.

You will never have a "stable" population of slaves, black or otherwise, because even those with a 75 IQ will be well aware of the injustice done to them and resent it to the point of armed rebellion, which is bound to occur sooner or later.

We could end such social instability in an instant if the political will existed to simply respect the sovereignty of foreign nations and treat everyone everywhere as equals under the law. A good start on social justice might be achieved by leaving africa to the africans and Haiti to the Haitians, as opposed to sticking our imperialistic/neo-colonial noses where they don't belong. In fact, that policy should apply to everyone ("Arabs" & Muslim countries included), not just blacks. That would be my suggestion anyway.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 132
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/20/2012 9:56:56 AM

Guess who has the brains, the money, and the weapons?

My guess would be the people who brought them here for the purpose of dividing and conquering the people already living here. Am I right?
Joined: 12/26/2011
Msg: 133
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/20/2012 12:25:19 PM

Race war is so much better then the rot-down engendered by a flood of third worlders. Guess who has the brains, the money, and the weapons?

Not you, on all counts. The worst "rot" of all is willful ignorance and hatred.

Ballard, you have taken up enough of my time. Your desperate need to get attention is tiresome.
Joined: 6/23/2008
Msg: 134
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/20/2012 5:06:25 PM
ballard3240 your brain is rotted and so are the people who think like you. You are full of hatred and you are a disgusting low down human being with no self worth. I dont care what you say about the black community and the problems we have, we get through it all. You couldnt handle an ounce of what people of color have had to deal with at the hands of people like you. You havent done anything in this world. No contribution except the pollution coming out of your sour mouth. What I dont get is since you feel you have the brains, the money, and the weapons, why do you spend so much time worrying about our black asses? Why do you care so much about us and keep spending so much time on people you feel are inferior to you? You sound insecure and afraid. You are a weak human being and I hope you get all thats coming to you. You lousy bigot.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 135
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/22/2012 2:15:29 PM
Pathetic wimps & gimps? Now there's a truly bright, rational and unemotional response! When one resorts to ad hominem labelling of his opponents, it is because he is unable to support his argument and has already lost the debate.

Sorry ballard…You lost, but thank you for your participation.
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