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 AUTHOR
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 214
why do men think they can use women for sex?Page 4 of 51    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

I never implied anything towards the OP. I was countering what Libre was saying to the OP. Thre's a difference.

Ok, to me it seemed like you were addressing the OP directly in response to Libre talking to her, which basically had nothing to do with you. My mistake. I must have read that wrong.

Did you read the FULL definition? Did you not read the part where it als defined a whore as a promiscuous woman? Maybe you need another coffee?

Yes, I read the full definition, and right after I read your statement about it being an EXACT description of what Libre was selling to the OP. That makes that part of your definition (which you included) a valid part of that definition. So I repeat - had I seen Libre tell her to start turning on the red light (which you literally claimed she did with a definition you pasted) I certainly would have agreed with you.

Can you show me anyone who was born without feelings?

Can you show me that everyone was?

We all have them. Some people hide them better than others. Many are numb to their feelings--but they have them. Come on, surely you can come up with a better argument than that!
My argument wasn't about your topic, it was about your context. It was very "Obi Wan" ish. But I don't expect you to get it this time either, so nevermind.

Why is that not uplifting? Sorry, but I do not see the difference. I was saying that she deserves better. Do you also say that it is not uplifting to say to a person, "Don't turn into a hard-hearted, hateful person?" It is uplifting, because I see her as a woman with value, and who should strive for more than just being a man's sexual plaything. Please explain how that is not uplifting. Again, I was countering Libre's advice. Should a person only hear just ONE point of view?

It's not what you said, (is there an echo in here?) it's how you said it. And up until you posted your response, there had already been WAY more pieces of advice posted to the OP than just one. Obviously, to you that one was the only one that mattered, but to the rest of us, there were quite a few more.

I never claimed to be an expert. The Op posted her post because she was seeking advice, and like everyone else, I was trying to do that. So why don't you say the same thing to everyone else here on the thread?

Not literally, no. Because I didn't find anyone else's post insulting to a group of people, regardless of sexual orientation used in that manner to prove a point. If I witness it elsewhere I usually say something.

Perhaps it was annoying to you because you feel it was an attack on the way you choose to live your life?

If it was the issue, I would have directly said that. Since I didn't, it wasn't relevant. The point is this - regardless of how I live, I don't expect others to either believe, follow or care either way what I do. That's the point here.

Are you sure about that?

Yes, I am quite sure. I don't mix words, so if my life was of any importance to this thread - you'd have heard about it.

Aren't YOU the one being presumptuous? Women who become soulless whores do so because no one ever told them they deserve better, and they've been treated badly by men--and there are LOTS of women out there who will testify to that.

some don't want to hear it from someone they don't know or someone they didn't ask.

Telling them that they do deserve better is exactly what they need to hear. Why should you have a problem with that?

Because telling someone they deserve better assumes their life isn't better. Who's to say it is (unless, they tell you that)?

And what's wrong with telling someone to avoid becoming trash?

Because "trash" is an unbecoming term people use to describe human life that's highly judgemental.

It's because I see their value as a person that I say that. I am not attacking them, I am telling them that they are better than that. If a woman told me to not become a misogynistic scumbag, would I be offended? Not at all! Ya picking that up?

This is mainly about the context, again. What can I say, I spent over 20 years in a business that literally watched words, avoided offending listeners and gauged reactions based on the threat of giant lawsuits, so I know there's always at least 5 ways to get a message across, not all of em effective. But whatever, this is a thread, not the office of a life coach, so let's agree to disagree.

Yes, you did. You said that men are just dildos that walk. I am a man; therefore, you included me in that category.

They can be. Just because you don't want to be one doesn't mean it's not a possibility. So don't be - be different, break the chain and all that. No worries.

Perhaps not "bad people." Rather, people who are missing out on how great sex can really be when it is shared by two people who have a true love relationship--preferrably marriage. As I said earlier, even secular studies have shown that marital sex is better sex than one-night-stand sex.

Now that's wonderful; but outside of your personal preference to hold out for marriage and only have sex in that context, it's not relevant to you. What OTHERS do is THEIR business. For those who want that - they should have that. For those who don't, they should have what they want. We're all different...

Is sex better in a relationship? Sure. Does it work without one? Sure. Some don't want sex without commitment (and marriage, for those who still believe in that sort of thing), and for THOSE people that's absolutely their choice. Some don't see why they should only combine sex with commitment or relationships despite the fact that it may not be the same (not less or worse, just different) and that's THEIR choice. And for some marriage is too much of a headache just for some mindblowing sex...

I guess the way you're posting about it seems to be as if you're trying to convince people to do things one way or the other, and that's no one's place to really do. But if you're cool with leaving people to do what they want and respecting that, then let's call it a misunderstanding.

What I was saying is that it is views like yours that are the reason why men use women for sex, and why so many women wind up hurt because of it. Men meet women with views like yours, and assume that if a woman sleeps with him, she thinks the same way as you do. So in that respect, you indirectly contribute to women being used. That is what many are saying here. Men use women for sex because women let them. You may be okay with it afterwards because you have numbed yourself to your emotions.

Let's review here. The concept of anyone being used for sex can't exist if both agree to the sex, however both may have different expectations of what it means (or if it means anything). Let's face it, one stands are gonna happen - my perspective at least allows women to move on without torturing themselves over someone that wouldn't have called them whether they were around one day or one month - it's a realistic example of what to expect in order to protect yourself from further hurt should something like this happen. Ideally we should all avoid situations like that IF we want more (some don't). There's no way you're gonna pin how men deal with this on me or anyone else. These men are adults, and do what they do for a reason, just as women do. Your tone in the above quote suggests that men are predators and women are victims to an extent, and that somehow women are causing it...sorry, I don't buy that.

I truly hope that one day, you will know what true love is, But that is not likely to happen if you sleep around and think of men as "dildoes that walk."

Wow, that must have really done a number on you, that's twice you mentioned that - OK all men but you. Is that better? AGAIN, what I personally do or don't do has nothing to do with this...and I doubt seriously you hope I do anything, tho for the sake of reading it sure looks good to add to a post. You also have no clue who I am outside of this thread. PLEASE don't concern yourself with me, that's not the issue here.
 Boricua Papi
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 221
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/8/2008 6:43:37 AM
The fact that you "emailed him" and not "called him" represents the idea of just an "online" relationship. Why you didn't call him? Did he give you his number? Thanking some one you meet online for a "nice evening" of sex on an email does not warrants any favor in return. He did not use you. You accepted the conditions and so did he. That you fell for the man is another story, so stop blaming the guy for your own lack of self control and respect.
 wonwascallywabbit
Joined: 7/20/2005
Msg: 222
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/8/2008 6:47:11 AM
@ Santa-Then don't raise your daughters to believe she has to be inlove with someone to share her body with them.
Your words not mine. Not to many dimensions to be had there. It says tell your daughter its ok to put out for whatever reason you deem fit at the moment.

The troll like comments are what lacks depth. You-It is fact that men think in 2 dimensions, while women think in 3. Women listen to every word that a man says, and men pick and choose which words he wants to hear. Apparently that is also true while reading. For informational purposes, that is a generality, which does not apply to all men, just as the same as it does not apply to all women. I believe it's 63% of men 2d and 68% of women 3d are the accepted averages.

The topic was why men think it's ok to have sex and split. Many times the hurt is because many woman and men as well weren't taught this is a distinct possibility, and so even through experience, time after time, they are still left wondering what happened, simply because they think this shouldn't happen to them. There are men and women alike that think this way. Unfortunately many times while one is thinking great piece of tail the other is thinking this could be something. That in a nutshell is what my point to my daughters was. Before putting yourself out there, make sure you understand fully the situation you are in and the consequences thereof. Most of all, understand what people are like in all situations, especially a situation such a sex as, considering all the possible consequences, from bad reputations (albeit undeserved), to Stds, to unwanted pregnancy, to you might just be scratching someones itch. I see no way, any responsible parent could say, if you have an itch scratch it, where sex is concerned.
 jasmina
Joined: 10/20/2005
Msg: 223
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/8/2008 6:49:47 AM
Well said, sin2gether2. It had nothing to do with the sex, but with what happened afterward.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 228
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/8/2008 8:37:02 AM
I can't tell you how many men I chatted with and it was about 5 min into the conversation that sex came up. When I changed the subject from sex, they would say oh you don't like sex? I would tell them when I wanted to discuss sex, it will be when I am ready to. They usually do not like to wait and will often tell you, that they are looking to hook up with someone that night. Thats when I pull the plug on the call.

Had to quote you and agree with this. In a sense women just need to own their sexuality...I don't meet men I don't know for sex, I don't have any interest in sleeping with a stranger - in my case, anyway there are too many more familliar places to have sex should I want to do so...a woman can be into sex without "resorting" and yes - I mean resorting to strangers. Maybe if we had less options we'd think more of it, but most of us just don't have that problem.

Men who test women they just met with the sex conversation to gauge whether or not they like sex don't get the way women think...they think a woman who doesn't stay with the topic doesn't like sex - however they could be missing out on one hell of a woman with a great sex drive who just doesn't have any interest in discussing it with someone she doesn't know. If a woman knows a man well, and trusts him, THATs what makes her ok with being sexual openly. Strangers online can't be familliar and trustworthy...so naturally most of us find it either offensive or just odd that men would want to know our sexual desires without knowing our first names. But I digress....

In my case, I'm not interested in discussing sex with anyone until I am ready to do so - it's not negotiable. If someone would leave me alone and allow me to bring it up in my own time, they'd not have to worry that I can comfortably discuss it. Most men however have no patience with that, and bring it up too soon, which just alienates me altogether. Sort of shooting themselves in the foot, but whatever.

Men can say it's an effective way to know if they're wasting their time with women, but in fact they end up putting off a lot of women that they would have otherwise done fine with had they allowed them to feel comfortable with it. It's sort of a counterproductive practice, and it's strange to me that they're trying to get the opposite reaction of what they're actually causing.
 spiritual guy
Joined: 12/6/2007
Msg: 234
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/8/2008 5:43:33 PM
DEAR VIXENETTE.

Shock horror! It works THE OTHER WAY AROUND ALSO my Darling..!
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 236
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/8/2008 7:43:44 PM
word1998

It is the pleasure factor that induces the male of the species to engage in sex and to convince the female of the species that it is the thing to do.


you are so wrong with that statement.. 100 years ago that may have be true,, today that should not be a mans way of thinking, Woman should be treated with respect, not manipulated, even though some woman fall pray to such tactics. If I know anything about woman,, I would say they have fooled you to believe you can seduce them in any from or fashion. The woman that you speak of, I'm sure let your believe they have been convinced, because we all have our own sexual desires and fantasies,, you just happened to find the right women to fulfill your ego..
 wonwascallywabbit
Joined: 7/20/2005
Msg: 242
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/9/2008 5:37:35 AM
@ ugly betty re post 217, You do have many valid points, and it's always refreshing to see someone who can add intelligent points of view to a discussion. The part about making a personal choice in having random sex for pleasure/ waiting for love is quite true. What one decides for themselves, between consenting adults as far as I'm concerned is very much their own business. From the original post though I didn't get that this was a person that made the choice you spoke of. It seemed more to me she was caught off guard. I would think too, that people who make either choice can be taken by surprise, the ones looking for a thrill who accidentally find themselves clicking on every level during one night stand thinking this could be more when it won't, as well as those thinking they found the one, only to find out it was the one night.
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 247
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/9/2008 2:20:35 PM

What century are you in???? It seems to me if SHE is "trashy," then so was HE. I have a strong feeling you have little to no education and are not particularly literate or sophisticated. Blue collar comes to mind.



there is no reason to pick on us blue collar guy,, OK...we don't deserve that type of comment,, what did we do...
 Tailormadeforyou
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 251
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/9/2008 5:10:08 PM
By her saying "why do men think they can use women for sex" IS her blaming men for a mistake (presumably) that SHE made. I just get so tired of people blaming others for their mistakes; then to go on long tirades looking for people to help lift the blame or guilt she is feeling. THEN she gets upset because people "go off on her" or whatever it is she whined about when she made another choice....putting her very personal choices on display...geez, lord help me. If she is this naive she probably shouldn't be dating...I'm smiling, I'm smiling, I promise I'm happy!!
 Mer_mate
Joined: 8/19/2007
Msg: 254
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:28:15 PM
There's a really great song by The Eagles called "Get Over It"...The words are PURRRFECT for this ongoing battle lmao

From the album Hell Freezes Over (1994)

I turn on the tube and what do I see

A whole lotta people cryin' 'Don't blame me'


They point their crooked little fingers ar everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves

Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight
You don't want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it
Get over it
If you don't want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, Get over it

It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak


You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass


Get over it
Get over it
All this ****in' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit
Get over it, get over it
 IceStorminJune
Joined: 4/18/2007
Msg: 258
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:05:39 PM
So, my question is that? .... can we expect more, or should we expect to be treated like meat, when they suggest otherwise?

-C
 HeartofTxAngel
Joined: 8/17/2007
Msg: 260
view profile
History
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:18:48 PM
I have to ask are there any men out there who still believe in old fashioned romance with out expecting to end up in bed after a date????
 forum101
Joined: 2/5/2008
Msg: 263
view profile
History
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:22:49 PM
i guess you have proven you do put out on the first date. are we suposed to feel sorry for you? you made the rules, changed them midgame. You cannot blame this guy for your actions. you said casual, HELLO< he was casual. the only one to blame is yourself.
 Boricua Papi
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 264
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/10/2008 6:30:49 AM
Hey prairi princess you are kinda hot. I wouldn't mind you putting out in our first date. Of Course, I would have treated you much better.
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 269
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/10/2008 7:21:47 AM

I believe its the womens fault. Keep your damn legs closed!!!


Why would it have to be any ones fault? Both men and woman make choices, they choose to have sex with someone, as your friend did. Just goes to show, either she liked sex, or it is her way of trying to convince this guy to say around,, One or the other seems to be working.. I'm really not sure though how she dumps this guy friend of yours though. when he already assured this woman it's casual.. Hell they aren't dating they are just having sex,, good or bad,, win win for both. Also your guy friend may want a LTR, but not with this woman,, he may be searching for the right one woman for him, but along the way is having fun with someone who likes to have fun too...
 Miashakti
Joined: 9/11/2007
Msg: 271
view profile
History
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/10/2008 9:03:40 AM
because many (most) have not elevated themselves out of their instinctual nature...I refer to them as 'Neanderthals' (please forgive, it is an affectionate title..sort of)

It's all about the field you are playing in....

The less conscious a person is, the more likely they use others for self gratification

the more conscious, the more they will want to be honoring and uplifting, understanding that to give honor, respects and uplifts everyone and everything javascript:smilie('')

It's not the men, sweetheart, it's where you are looking

Check out David Deida

he Googles...The Way of the Superior Man

or any other of his books, and for god's sake girl.... don't give yourself away to the one's who would only take... it'll make you old and bitter..and no woman should go there.... Find another route to your happiness
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 275
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/10/2008 9:37:45 AM
Not for you

Ok, I concede,
as for the gold pot, gold ring,, she may come out of this with a golden shower,, translation,, being pissed on,,, Hey all gold right....
 Miashakti
Joined: 9/11/2007
Msg: 277
view profile
History
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:28:48 AM
and if you lay with dogs you're gonna get fleasjavascript:smilie('')

If all anyone needs is some genital relief, then impersonal sex will do ....... YUK

but if someone wants more...one has to look for it....and look deep...

Everyone seeks their own level..the playing field is open and vast

and everyone gets to choose where they playjavascript:smilie('')
 rdcnorm
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 278
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:48:46 AM

(if there are respectful guys out there, this is not for you but I have yet to meet you, but feel free to comment)


I have heard it said a few times, if the people we meet seem to have charistics that we find objectionable,, and this happens time and time again.. we then should look at our own habits, and where are we finding those men or woman that just don't fit into your life style, including our value system.. We then should look for other areas to hang out,, or possible change our own habits,,

A dog will chase a female dog in heat.. and many times,, the female will be doing the chasing...

If a honest man were to answer your question,, How would you know if he were honest or not,, because wouldn't a dishonest man answer the same question in the same way..

However, wouldn't you agree it is our choice that effect us,, to be naive after the fact,, I just don't buy that,, may be as a young adult, sure, but other than that,,

again, lets start taking responsibility for who we are...
 ummagumma
Joined: 4/25/2007
Msg: 280
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/10/2008 1:56:07 PM
Vixenette,

Seems to be a sign of the times and it isn't only a men thing. Until I learned how to pick and chose, I was used more than a portable toilet at Mardi Gras.
 Miashakti
Joined: 9/11/2007
Msg: 281
view profile
History
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/10/2008 4:25:51 PM
Ten to 15 percent of American women have never experienced an orgasm. Only 35 percent of the female population will orgasm during intercourse. ...
www.drphil.com/articles/article/371 - 9k - Cached - Similar pages.


In ancient tantra the men loved the woman open for 24 hours before he'd even think about penetrating her...

And orgasm wasn't the point...it was the presence, the communion...the becoming as one heart, one soul...

Has everyone forgotten why they crave sex???

An orgasm is the same as a sneeze..exactly...You stimulate the nervous system to a certain point and it spasms...it is NOT rocket science

Good sex has little or nothing to do with how many orgasms one has...but more to do with how loved one feels...
javascript:smilie('')
Let's return to what's real, huh?

I had a relationship with a Rebirther..a breath therapist...he would entrain his breath with mine and we orgasmed together almost every time... He wasn't my most rapturous lover, because the heart connection didn't go as deep and with another...but he was good...very good, in fact.

javascript:smilie('')
Do yourselves a favor and learn about tantra

It's an awesome spiritual/sexual path
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 290
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/12/2008 9:37:22 AM

Then, there comes tired and worn-out “self-respect” stuff. “A woman who jumps into bed without commitment has no self-respect”. According to this line of thinking, self-respect means “denying sexual needs to yourself”. I stress the word yourself– because, when you want sex and yet say no, it’s yourself you say no to, not the guy. Am I the only one who sees the absurdity of this way of thinking?

No, you're not. I agree that if either one wants a relationship with someone they have interest in, they BOTH should probably wait on sex to see if the other person's got anything else of value besides lust to get involved with - as in the sex should be more the dessert, not so much the appetizer; but a woman certainly can have sex with a man she barely knows AS LONG AS she recognizes and enjoys it as such, and of course is safe about it and protects herself. There's no lack of self respect in knowing you like sex and can enjoy it.

I think in the case of the OP, yes she did send a mixed message - but the bottom line was the guy was most likely not a master of communication generally, and because she didn't know him well, she couldn't really predict it. I'd bet he's got ex girlfriends who didn't hear from him either at some point.
 forum101
Joined: 2/5/2008
Msg: 296
view profile
History
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:54:38 AM
Op is trying to place the blame on him for her own actions. She slept with him, without any strings, even though she said she wouldnt. she lied to him, tried to use sex to keep him, but he didnt fall for it. He saw through the lies and games. Why wouldnt a guy think she would put out for everybody? She came on here boohooing, trying to get sympathy for him not calling her. She is a player. She said she was a certain type, eg, not looking for serious, or ONS, but that obviously wasnt the case. He found her out pretty quick.
What is wrong with any person having self respect, Libre? I, as a woman, judge the actions on a first date. If he's more interested in bedding me, or talking sex, than getting to know me, I move on. Simply because that is a red flag, USER, to me. I dont want a man who has slept with every woman he comes across. It speaks volumes on his self control. Op was trying to play the victim here, when she was actually trying to manipulate him. Using sex to land a man. But it backfired.
 cooldude
Joined: 4/26/2004
Msg: 301
why do men think they can use women for sex?
Posted: 3/12/2008 8:57:12 PM
You had sex on the first date when he promised you a relationship? Yikes!

You used his body for sex too, so its not about you getting used.
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