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 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 201
Is there a god?Page 11 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)

Also, to acknowledge that the Abrahamic god has foreknowledge is to assume he is malevolent toward us and had the intention to be so before he created us, since if he sees all things before and after they'll happen then even accounting for free will he still sees all things, including what we will do with our free will. This means he created Adam and Eve with the foreknowledge that they'd eat of the tree of knowledge. If he knew that given the chance to, they would do this and he also knew he didn't want them to do this, Why not put the tree of knowledge and the tree of life outside the garden of Eden? He had the ENTIRE REST OF THE UNIVERSE to put those two trees in. Sounds like that is a god that set us up to fail, knowing that we would do so, if he's true.


You know this story gets much easier to deal with if you know two important details. Firstly, it's not originally a story from the Hebrew Bible. It's a myth derived from earlier Sumerian and Akkadian stories. Second and most importantly, the concept of literal historical narratives is a very late invention, relatively speaking and even by the time of the collation of the Hebrew Bible, around the First Temple period, had not even been conceived of yet.

Anyone who tells you different is, frankly, ignorant of the history of the written word, both religious and secular and most certainly doesn't have a clue about Near Eastern religion and how it developed. Likely they are only basing their ideas on a "faith based" perspective...and gently put, that might wash around the table in Sunday School with fellow believers but in an actual discussion out in public, "that dog won't hunt."

The writers of religious texts wrote in a metaphoric, poetic style. Even those people conveying historical events did so for the longest time. The very idea of recording or documenting history in a detailed and scientific fashion is only a couple of hundred years old. Keep in mind you are dealing with mythic concepts that are shaped by groups of people who emerge from certain cultures, times, and geographies. Their beliefs will literally be shaped by the land, interaction with their neighbours, the weather, wtc. Perhaps for a inerrant literalist, this will be blasphemy...but then any discussion of this nature will so it's simply best to ignore them anyway as a rational discourse will not be possible.

As to Abraham negotiating with God in Sodom, one sees the very nature of God changing throughout the Jewish scriptures as the people change. The concept of God evolves from henotheism (the prime god among many and the only one worshipped) to pure monotheism by the time of the First Temple and the Babylonian Captivity.

Obviously by the time Christianity rolls around the Christians have changed the nature of God again by making a Trinity, and an incarnation of one element of it which does something totally anathema to the prior Jewish vision of God.

And then again, the Muslim view is yet another view of the Abrahamic God...

Glad that's not something I have to deal with except as an observer.

 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 203
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/3/2008 1:02:50 PM


The "Jehovah" god of christianity admits there IS other "gods". "Thou shalt have no other gods before me!" One of those pesky 10 commandments I believe. Notice the wording....he places himself FIRST...before other gods. So, as long as you recognize him as the primary functionary, everything is cool.
Ask yourself...why would anyone place themselves as first if there was only one? Hmmm....


Well if you saw my post, as religious historians have rightly observed, the view of the God of Abraham has evolved over time.

He wasn't always just the only game in town. Back in the very very beginning he was one of the Sons of EL and even EL wasn't the only game in town in a polytheistic universe. But henotheism is the progression of believing in the idea that your tribes' god is bigger and better than everyone else's.

Maybe you have a run of good luck in battle, good crop years, healthy births. Your god is clearly smiling on you and not your enemies. Therefore, he is clearly more powerful. The people of the Near East literally also believed that their gods dwelled on earth and that their power came out of their temple dwelling places. This also affected how their power could and would be perceived. As far as can be perceived historically, the god of Abraham has conglomerate origins in several deities that eventually converge into one single deity cult much much later in history, much like any other multifaceted complex deity like Brahma of Hinduism.

Later Judaism rejects this notion by portraying God as a single unified entity but the multiple names of God betray the original because hidden in those names are the original godnames of the origin deities. As well, in the mystical study of Jewish Kabbalah, the multiple emanations that reflect the multiple aspects of divine power in creation reflect the spheres of influence in nature that would ordinarily be assumed by the various gods or goddesses in a polytheistic pantheon of deities.

This is NOT commonly accepted amongst Jews, nor even among Jewish Kabbalists and is noted as my opinion but is also the opinion of many scholars of Near Eastern Religion and Western Mysticism. Those seeking further information on sources can contact me offline.
 UnzippedPassion
Joined: 10/30/2005
Msg: 204
view profile
History
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/3/2008 9:31:46 PM
I believe in God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I've felt the presence in such an intense unexplainable experience that nothing could make me doubt it as truth. I don't need to see any scientific doubts placed before me because I have faith....and that faith will never be distorted for any reason.

We all know right from wrong and the choice is ours. God gives us free will to make those decisions and when that final day of judgement comes, we will be the only ones held accountable for them.

To anyone who isn't sure whether or not He exists, I'd certainly prefer to error on the side of believing...than not! Of course that's my feelings on the topic and as much as I'd love to lead everyone there, some times we have to let others find their own way. I'll not argue, nor flame....but instead show love and compassion....pray, and have faith that some day they will.

Amen
 dreamboat333
Joined: 2/13/2008
Msg: 205
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/4/2008 9:16:14 AM
romanticoptimist on 5/30/2008 wrote to me a very lovely message:


I asked: What does Jesus say about the claim that the Catholic Church is the only legitimate Church?


Bless your heart. I had almost forgotten all about you - but then I took a glance and here you were still announcing against me from the roof tops. I respect, if nothing else, your tenacity (If I may be so bold).

To which I responded most appropriately that Jesus said, as is detailed in the book of Matthew 16 "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church"

That is my answer to your request - plain and simple and drawn from the only source, which taken along with The Tradition of The Catholic Church, that I consider authoritative on the subject, "The Holy Bible".


Please speak plainly, are you claiming "the Roman Catholic Church is the only legitimate Church of Jesus Christ" or not.


You attempt to manufacture that my response is anything less than clear and well stated. So, to play into your arena - YES that is exactly what I believe. So flame on me brother, flame on me.


If you are, then we have nothing more to talk about and you have confirmed my suspicions that the core of ecumenism is elitism.


As I stated before, I will not change your mind - and you will not sway me from our faith, but if you feel better being the one who closes the door on communication, well then as much as I'll regret it - I guess you are going to have to stop communicating with me on this point.

Just understand "c l e a r l y" that the reason you give for your shunning me is not because of elitism so much as it is because in Roman Catholicism we believe that Jesus Christ (who is God incarnate) founded The Roman Catholic Church as mentioned above. Further, the position is clearly stated that The Roman Catholic Church acknowledges the legitimacy of The Orthodox Church as sister church and all Protestant and quasi-Christian Church's who have fallen away from The Roman Catholic Church are ecclesiastical bodies who are supportive to Christ's plan of salvation. However, The Roman Catholic Church is central to this plan of salvation.

I hope that was clear enough for you and the readers, because I stand in defense of this statement to the not-so-bitter end.


And that saddens me because for as long as one group of sibling believes themselves to be the "real" children, they consider the "others" to be "less than" and that will always prevent the oneness that Jesus prayed for in His High Priestly Prayer:


It wasn't Jesus who said that he was shutting the door to the dialogue, Brother, it was YOU. I'm sure that your faith encourages you to be accountable even to your God?


I asked: If you knew something that was harmful to the Catholic Church and was a crime or an immoral act, would you reveal it or not? What is more important, the truth and justice or the Catholic Church?


Why wouldn't I do the right thing, Brother? Because I am Catholic - isn't that a little cynical for you to imply in all your open mindedness?


And here is my problem because that group is then placed higher than justice and truth, and thus becomes an idol.


Well, you in all your exaltation are perfectly free to have your problem with me and my belief system and my Church and whatever else it is you want to point your finger at. I am not afraid, nor am I ashamed, God save us and will preserve us.

Again, you insinuations do not go unnoticed, but your worn out arguments merely do not warrant a dignified response.


Having dealt with those who have been abusers and abused in the Catholic Church, I can say that the most common excuse given for staying silent was to protect "the good name" of the Catholic Church.


There it is, Brother, you have cast the first stone - but I turn the other cheek and I ask you to deliver how ever many blows you feel will satisfy your God. Because indeed the accusations of the horrors of The Inquisition has not mitigated my faith in The Church founded by Jesus Christ and sustained by Pope Benedict XVI - neither will your attempt to cheapen and soil the merit and integrity of our Church.

Adolf Hitler was Lutheran - do I throw rocks at Lutherans and blame them for the Holocaust? Of course not because to do so would merely distract the readers, as your post attempts to do, from the reality of the facts.

Lutherans are no more responsible for The Holocaust then any of we good Catholics are responsible for the misdeeds of those who have been purged from The Church and who, now that Pope Benedict XVI has been installed, will continue to be ferreted out so that The Church continues to undergo it's cleansing.

We clear the way for a coming golden age wherein The Church will accomplish Her Mission more fully by the ardent and zealous believers who will seek to restore the world here and here again.
 dreamboat333
Joined: 2/13/2008
Msg: 206
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/4/2008 1:49:20 PM
Dear romanticoptimist:

Thank you for putting me straight. I guess, at the end of the long weary day - you told me.


And your sarcasm and patronising attempt to lord it over me is uncalled for. I simply didn't want to assume that what I thought you were saying was what you were saying.


Wait - you lunged at me friend. You have kept in on me, jibing and jabbing and all I have done is politely respond to your inquiries with my proclamation of faith.

Funny how when it is "one of us" speaking up it's "sarcastic and patronizing" and whatever other uppity things you want to lay on us. Whereas when it is you calling us rapists and baby killers, well you are stumbling down off the pinnacle of your mountain top to elevate the minds and souls of all us poor misguided fools.


A little clarity is always helpful. Clearly you have an elitist view of "your" church.


Friend, please try to refrain from making it personal. I don't know you and don't pretend to know what you do or do not think about God or the price of tea in China. But what I do know is that I have given you The Vatican's position on the matter.

Do I accept it as my own - after quite some research, yes I do - so if I am an elitest, then I am prepared to be forgiven for that as well.

{quote]So no stone throwing here.

You have repeated thrown stones over the hull while hiding behind your poxy sense of knowing it all. You insinuated repeatedly that to be a Roman Catholic is to condone molestation of children and to participate in covert efforts at silencing the truth and you should be called on it, again and again.


My Christianity includes all who call on the name of Jesus Christ for salvation without regard to any institution or denomination. Yours doesn't. So we disagree.


Despite how you attempt so painstakingly try to put YOUR WORDS into my mouth - any reader who wants to go back and reread my posts (the ones you haven't had deleted) will find I have never stated anything about who is or is not going to heaven and who is or is not "saved".

I have refraied from making this personal judgement because my understanding of the teaching of my Church is that this is not my place to assess, but only God's.


As for me, apparently I'm a "Heretic" according to your Church so I'm not sure if you should be talking to me or not.


You are a funny, funny guy. First you rail on and on about me and my Roman Catholic Faith - then you accuse through inuendo and insinuation that Catholics are guilty of conducting a clandestine effort at hurting children and hiding the truth - and when defeated you roll over on you back and act as though it is you being kicked.


By the way, Hitler was nominally a Roman Catholic, not a Lutheran. Not that it matters anyway, but it's always good to have facts instead of revisionist history in front of you when you attempt to defame a group of "other" Christians.


The point which I clearly made was that if we were to use the same logic with which you conduct your smear campaign against the Catholic Church then we would damn all Lutherans because Hitler belonged to the Lutheran Church.

I did not attempt to defame, nor as I stated do I consider it defamation (as you do) to say that so and so was a member of such and such church - that was the point I made.

Take you own advice when referring to The Roman Catholic Church friend. Hitler was not Catholic, he is well known to have been brought up in The Lutheran Church.

In Hitler’s words “the heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Catholicism” (Hitler, 1953, p. 6). The Jesuits were “swine,” and all of Catholicism was “Jewish Christianity” which was comparable with “Jewish Bolshevism.” Hitler concluded that both were evil and both had to be destroyed (Kershaw, 2000, pp. 330, 488). His reasoning was based on his belief that The Catholic Church was an “illegitimate” Jewish child and, as a Jewish child, was swine like its parent that must be eradicated.

The head of the Catholic Action organization, Dr. Erich Klausner, was murdered by Hitler’s stormtroopers. In an attempt to discredit the Church, monks were brought to trial on immorality charges.

Imagine, Catholics being brought up on charges of immorality - sound familliar?
 Jacobus101
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 208
view profile
History
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/4/2008 4:32:04 PM

lashandra777:
...kind wierd that both Martin Luther and Hitler were Germans with strong anti Catholic opinnions that frequently interfaced with pro German xenophobia.


Well, technically, Hitler was an Austrian. I don't think the Nazis considered him the ubermensch (since he was Austrian and dark-haired), but rather, the Herald of the ubermensch, if that makes any sense. That being said, I love Austria and their culture. The last Emperor of Austria, Blessed Karl V, was in my opinion the greatest ruler of the 20th century.

Anti-Roman and anti-Catholic sentiments have been in place in Germany for a long time. I'd add Bismarck, the founder of modern Germany, to that list. His kulturkampf program was, among other things, an attempt to marginalize Catholicism in modern Germany.
 dreamboat333
Joined: 2/13/2008
Msg: 209
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/4/2008 4:45:18 PM
abc writes:


Many scientists I know feel that faith and sience are two fairly independent cognitive processes...


They would seem to be. But as you have pointed out we are limited in our scope so we must remain the student seeking the light.


would be nice to connect them together some day, but then, it would be nice to connect Gravitational, Electromagnetic and other fields together, too.


Doesn't Kabballah shed light on such a marriage of forces?


I believe that whoever comes up wtih the Great Unification Theory will also come very close to proving the existence of God


Albert Einstein commented on The Unified Field Theory which Kabballah terms Asiah?


Of course, this God might turn out to be quite different from all we could imagine..


Doesn't He always.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 210
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/4/2008 8:52:47 PM


Doesn't Kabballah shed light on such a marriage of forces?

Albert Einstein commented on The Unified Field Theory which Kabballah terms Asiah?


You are dealing with two very different worldviews here. Asiah is not really a descriptive of the "unified field theory" but just a term to describe the material realm. It would be a pretty big leap of semantics to say that it specifically implied "the sticky forces that holds all reality together" when there are more specific ideas about that in Kabbalah but that is well beyond the scope of this thread and most of the readers here I dare say.

And really guys, discussions of Hitler's Christianity or lack thereof...talk about regurgitating the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. In any case, this secular site does a much better job of disseminating the history of Hitler's beliefs, warts and all, including a thorough examination of the "Table Talk" references and how this has been misconstrued in discussions of Hitler's beliefs.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Hitler was born a Catholic and was baptised as such. He was never formally excommunicated, sadly, despite the conference of German bishops excommunicating all Nazis in 1930 and his technical excommunication via breaking canon law. Much of his ideas on anti-Semitism however DID come from Luther's "On The Jews and Their Lies" as I am sure it did for many other Germans and other Europeans, and in general two millenia of general anti-Semetic hatred and blood libel against the Jews for the supposed crime of deicide. Basic hatred of Jews and the blood libelling of them is however a feature of "any" Christian theology so I guess you can both point fingers happily at each other for history's sins...but...

THIS IS WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE Can we all bloody well move past this nonsense now? I don't think there is anyone who can admit to being free of guilt in this regard. It is time to move forward past the bickering. It really really is tiresome, not to mention factually incorrect. But it is well and truly in the past and not worth talking about now is it???
 dreamboat333
Joined: 2/13/2008
Msg: 212
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/5/2008 6:42:18 AM
I am honored to finally be addressed by the one, the only, Plenty of Fish's Preimier Sensation (hows that for an intro) The Mad Fiddler!

Where you wrote:



Doesn't Kabballah shed light on such a marriage of forces? Albert Einstein commented on The Unified Field Theory which Kabballah terms Asiah? - - -
You are dealing with two very different worldviews here. Asiah is not really a descriptive of the "unified field theory" but just a term to describe the material realm.


You are absolutely correct. I realized it once I had posted it -but you can't unring a bell.

I was posting in something of a hurry and mis-stated myself. In fact it was Ain which I was thinking of. And in fact Ain Sof Aur (Limitless Light) was more true the my thought.

Whereas the Ain Sof Aur or Limitless Light prospoes that the creative element and indeed the creator Himself is exenteded throughout all of creationg (thus a unified or unifying field) it is the Ruach (meaning "spirit", "wind", "breath", or "air". The Greek equivalent is "pneuma" and the Latin is "spiritus" the word used to refer to what sustains the life in a nephesh.) which actively asserts this action.

The challange that believers of all eras have come up against in trying to express their transcendental experiences to others is that these experiences lie beyond the bounds of the rational (and even intuitional) mind on which human written and verbal communication is based. Countless methods have been tried, including allegory, antinomy, poetry and mundane approximation; but all on the fact that transcendental experience cannot be adequately conveyed through sub-transcendental means of communication.

This challange occurs in Kabballism especially in discussions of the higher sefirot on the Tree of Life, and becomes insurmountable in discussing that which lies beyond or above the Tree. The Tree of Life (indeed the floor-plan of the unified field theory) expressed through the sefirot in the Four Worlds is as much as can usefully be conveyed to the human mind through language, and Atziluth and even Briah are really beyond human conception, their "structures" being hinted at through the tangible expressions of the sefirot in the lower worlds.

Ain (nothing)
Ain Sof (limitless nothing)
Ain Sof Aur (limitless light)

To define negative existence clearly is impossible, for when it is distinctly defined it ceases to be negative existence; it is then negative existence passing into static condition. Therefore wisely have the Kabbalists shut out from mortal comprehension the primal Ain, the negatively existent One, and the Ain Soph, the limitless Expansion; while of even the Ain Soph Aur, the illimitable Light, only a dim conception can be formed.



And really guys, discussions of Hitler's Christianity or lack thereof...


I hear you, I hear you loud and clear. I made a passing statement based on factual data and the which I never intended to illustrate more than the fact that religeous tolerance is more that another glib cliche. Then my good brother took hold of it and lost his mind - bless his soul.


Much of his ideas on anti-Semitism however DID come from Luther's "On The Jews and Their Lies" ...THIS IS WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE Can we all bloody well move past this nonsense now? I don't think there is anyone who can admit to being free of guilt in this regard.


As I have stated, re-stated and am stating again, my pointing out Adolf Hitler's active involvement in The Lutheran Church was intended solely to convey the necessity of religeous tolerance. As I stated, nobody would dream of pointing the finger at Lutheran's for the Holocaust simply because Adolf Hitler was a registered, card carrying, Sunday service attending member of the Lutheran Church.

HOWEVER - no good Catholic should ever be expected to have someone make such insulting accusations that by merit of involvement in The Catholic Church we are somehow prone to hurtful behavior or clandestine cover-ups/

The point you refer to would have been dropped immediately, had it not been for my brother's need to further exume the matter for examination in an failed effort at support for his slur on The Roman Catholic Church.

I certainly won't be revisiting it as I am certain there will be bigger fish to fry presently.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 214
Is there a god?
Posted: 6/5/2008 11:51:40 PM


I am honored to finally be addressed by the one, the only, Plenty of Fish's Preimier Sensation (hows that for an intro) The Mad Fiddler!


Now I can't get my head through the forum door...just a second *poke BLAM hisssssss* there we go



You are absolutely correct. I realized it once I had posted it -but you can't unring a bell.

I was posting in something of a hurry and mis-stated myself. In fact it was Ain which I was thinking of. And in fact Ain Sof Aur (Limitless Light) was more true the my thought.


Nae bother! And some good information on the Kabbalah which hopefully will spur others to at least give it a look. It is, imho, one way that people have tried to puzzle out the Great Mystery by overlaying it with a deep symbolic framework. When I first began to study it, I had no idea how thick the brush was...now of course I have hit the first roadblock which is not knowing Hebrew.

Now there's a bit of work to get at...
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 215
Is there a mod?
Posted: 6/6/2008 9:44:38 PM


Well sir, that was a seus of a comment if I ever saw one myself..


Seus?? I'm gonna regret it but....what is a seus? Here it comes...LOL
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 216
view profile
History
Is there a god?
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:15:59 PM
there is a higher power, some force greater than you or i. for me, that's enough. i have had signs of this to assuage my own need for proof, but these are totally personal. to me, different beliefs are the same as different languages. the latter allows our communication with one another. the former allows us to materialize and imagine or put to image, a very complex energy field or many fields in concert with one another in infinite varieties. in addition, there is a yin /yang to all things. order. balance. out of chaos comes order. order disintegrates to chaos. thus, energy.

feel any better? better still, think any better?
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 217
Is there a god?
Posted: 7/14/2008 8:16:00 AM

feel any better? better still, think any better?

serenity: ^^^^I do ~ made good sense to me! I tried to email you direct, I'm not seeing it in sent mail, you can email me direct now.

~OT~ Exactly as was stated, different beliefs are just that. They should be acknowledged, respected and encouraged. I'll never understand those who view life as "my way is the only way" and that includes religions/spirituality/sexuality/etc. Closed minds breed contempt.
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 218
view profile
History
Is there a god?
Posted: 7/15/2008 10:11:07 AM
i see. you want an answer that appeals to your cognition or five senses? i suppose if you've ever been really down and didn't think you would make it--and then, w/o reason or beyond coincidence, you were bailed out--bigtime-- by something that is tangible but very unlikely to have happened OR you "suddenly feel" you have the resources, both internal and external, to go on---you will EXPERIENCE something greater than JUST YOU.

the Higher Power that is an umbrella "concept" over all of these different opinions, is above and beyond "just you". that is why they say that G-d or HP, speaks through people. if s/he were a person, then HP would be "limited". we are limited with souls or energy that is contained by physical structure ( thus the brain and conceptual ablity is limited) and our own five senses (limited). this gets us by in a material world.

if G-d or HP took material form, there would be severe limitation. HP is all of it, beyond it, w/o time. it is the underlying cause of what makes it happen and keeps it all together. if we did not evolve, we would explode. yet, in each explosion or fire or decay or death is a contribution to fertilizing what will come next. if it takes eons, it does not matter. the energy or force finds something else to cleave to. it can be dormant for whatever period.

so, despite how brainy we all may or may not be: it's insufficient to explain HP. the fact that you cannot explain it, explains your limits. thus, HP. HP is the only explanation. why the big bang? you can ask why until you die. it was the first word out of my mouth, according to my poor mother, and it will probably be the last one.

i suppose to keep it simple, you can just respond: why not?
 qriosity
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 219
view profile
History
Is there a god?
Posted: 7/15/2008 5:09:09 PM
what came first?

Humans or god?

Hypothesis #1: we exist *because* god exists. We are proof of god's existence

Hypothesis #2: god exists *because* we exist. God is proof of the human's abstract mind.

Occam's razor, if applied, Hypothesis #2 is left standing.

Would god ever have been thought up if humans didn't have a critical, abstract mind?
 qriosity
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 220
view profile
History
Is there a god?
Posted: 7/18/2008 2:35:00 PM

since these are the ramifications of the devil not being real, are you prepared for the ramifications if God doesn't exist?


Pascal's Wager - this is an appeal to selfish self-interest....not a 'good'/pure reason to thus, believe in god.
 WeAre1
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 221
view profile
History
Is there a god?
Posted: 7/24/2008 5:46:37 PM
Consider the word God to be synonymous with Spirit, Great Spirit, divine nature, love, light, energy, peace, consciousness, essence, higher self...highest self :)....

Consider the word God to mean everything - really everything in the universe...including all the solar systems, galaxies, planets, stars, moons, and all that resides on and in all planets - plants, trees, animals, mountains, seas, lakes, even guns, bombs, genuises and those slower of learning too, wonderfully compassionate people and closed minded angry and bitter too....

Consider God to be One with everything, with everyone, and eternal. (And not to confuse too much, but some then take that in all ways and say God is the Everything, which means it's the Nothing also.)

There are so many ways to consider God.....perhaps just consider it at all and something might come to you that makes sense.....or nothing will come to you, which will mean perhaps 'there is no God' makes sense to you.

I know, for me, I had such a blockage with the word - I used everything but, until I read the Conversation with God books and suddenly it's almost like they gave me permission to really let my blockage go and let in that word....finally. It did not change my ideas that go with the 'One with everything and eternal concept'....but now I could actually use the word.

Do I feel it in a religious sense? Well, I feel it in a spiritual one and who I am to say what is right for another? I can only feel what is right for me.

You want proof, OP? Well, that's like asking for someone to prove what's reality and what's illusion. We can't prove anything, but we know it exists.... (though I imagine there will always be the potential of total disagreement on which is which :) !!
 Wiccanwolf
Joined: 11/11/2007
Msg: 222
Is there a god?
Posted: 8/31/2008 7:02:02 PM
Yes there is and her name is Alanis Morristte. Seriously i believe god is a woman.
 THE-SELF-FISH
Joined: 8/21/2009
Msg: 223
Is there a god?
Posted: 8/24/2009 6:37:35 PM
Oh lord...thank you...the tears are rolling now...a million thank yous xxx

I am sooo happy...ah gad...i mean it!
 Inicia
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 224
Is there a god?
Posted: 8/27/2009 9:34:29 PM
IMO-- We have a deity when we have faith and not so much if we don't.


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
from epicuras(sp?)

further humble opinion---Just a response to epicuras' age old questions...
IF a deity is omnipotent it creates everything---would such a deity create lessor states of being-- to be "prevented"? or would every state of being be equivalent--- are we as humans with our societal beliefs capable of removing said deity from the box of binaries....good and evil? Would an omnipotent, creating, "SOURCE" differentiate between its creations allowing only favorite good ones or good behavior and squashing prejudged evil ones and evil suffering? If the deity differentiated wouldn't that make the deity unfair and unjust? or malevolent.. only an unbiased fair/just creator deserves the name God/ess .
 Inicia
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 225
Is there a god?
Posted: 9/5/2009 5:20:41 PM
as we consider the purely "lame" choices that may or may not result in suffering>>> other suffering must be considered....when we see the suffering of the innocent do we say to that?? Amen>>>or do some find a way to accurse the victims of such suffering as willfully choosing there plight??
when there are starving(War, disease or starviation) orphans in Africa sent to the back of the line after waiting in line for several hours to recieve food>>and mind you they are not fed before being returned to the back of the line. and each time they make it to the front of the line they are sent to the rear by the Aid workers so that they starve to death because they do not have parents anymore. When we see a person born without limbs due to a non preventable birth defect or a soldier who comes home and is denied decent care and services after being handicapped by war>>> to what do we say of this suffering???
 Inicia
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 226
Is there a god?
Posted: 9/9/2009 4:12:12 PM
while I appreciate that a BS in Education may be a good thing if one is to live in mainstream industrialized capitalistic societies>> if one is to continue living in the jungle there might be other qualities more necessary than keeping house, dressing in the latest fashion and a BS in Education>> that mind you are no less valid, important or impressive and are not indicitive of laziness or slipshod character and have nothing to do with selfishness or whether or not there is a god.
the aforementioned do have a geat deal to do with the nature of our society and what each society finds value in and VVendy's post demonstrates a great deal of ethnocentricity and very little cultural relativism.
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