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 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 76
Is there a god?Page 4 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)
The Universe has many physical laws. That is indicative of intelligence.

How so? Congress gives us laws and Congress isn't intelligent. Why should physical laws be any different?
 etherealone
Joined: 4/8/2007
Msg: 77
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/26/2008 1:02:11 AM
some one used the phrase, "faith the size of a mustard seed" to prove Gods existence.

for me, that just proves to me that humans have evolved into a herd mentality psychology. just waiting to be told what to do.

even better to believe in what we are told is the essence of perfection as our blind faith requires we ask for no proof or scientific evidence, and now that we have accepted that we require no proof, we are free and clear of expectations to challenge our faith. after all, we signed up to the biggest deity form on the planet!
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 78
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:15:22 AM

This statement is as equally valid as yours without the need to believe in magical beings.


A magician is only magical when his audience doesn't know how he did what he did. The moment the secret is discovered, he ceases to be magical.
That an eternal god brought the Universe into existance is pretty miraculous but that the universe brought itself into existance is a miracle of a miracles so I have to admit that the atheist has the stronger faith and belief in magic.
 etherealone
Joined: 4/8/2007
Msg: 79
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 6:01:30 AM
ekyro said:
The moment the secret is discovered, he ceases to be magical.

not true. the moment the secret is discovered, it becomes SCIENCE!
 dustinchicago
Joined: 3/14/2008
Msg: 80
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 7:59:10 AM
This would be a good place for a joke, but it's too early and I don't have one handy.

I subscribe to the belief that God IS.

Meaning, it can be considered a bit primitive to view God in terms of he/she/it, as a personality or deity, as a conscious our malevolent force. God is not separate, God is.

God is:
-the miracle that life and the universe exist
-the miracle that we are here
-the miracle that we know we are here
-the miracle that we are Reality Creators
-the shear beauty of everything when you stop to notice it
-the ability to feel
-everything in space and time

God is NOT:
-Judging you
-watching you
-aware of you
-separate from you or anyone or anything else
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 81
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 1:42:07 PM
Perhaps, you have boggle confused with baffle. Boggle, in the sense I applied it, means to hesitate or give second thought to something, whether it be moral, philosophical, ideological, or anything else. Whereas, baffled means to confuse or to astonish someone. Seems many people here have second thoughts or are hesitant in their beliefs, or why else post. If one is secure in what they believe, me included, they there only reason to post is to persuade someone to come to their point of view, the definition of preaching.

However, here, I believe we all have our points of views, and if open minded enough, we can see the others point of view while stating our own without, slander, without ridicule, after all the world is made out of opinions. Debating is fun; it is a sharing of ideas among a great diversity of minds. No one is a winner or a looser, rather all are winners having welcomed in new ideas, or ideologies.
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 82
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 3:10:48 PM

Really?? So HOW did the Christian god create everything out of nothing? Don't just say, "he's GOD", but explain HOW something came from nothing. In your own post you say it's a "miracle" *AND* you know how it was done. That's a good trick.


He spoke it into existence. Words have power.


Of course, if I ask how your god came to be, you'll just say it's always existed, which is a hypocritical argument at best (saying one thing HAD to have a creator but something else needed NO creator).


I don't see it as hypocritical at all but simply logic. The scientists say that the Universe is made up of a series of physical laws and they are still discovering and searching for more.
When something is subject to laws, that same something cannot be the lawgiver. That would be irrational. So therefore there needs to be something that is not bound by any law to create that which is.


I have to admit though, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by saying I as an atheist have a stronger faith and belief in magic. I readily admit I don't have a clue as to the nature of the universe and that "eternity" is to much to get my head around. It's just that there's absolutely no indication that an intelligent being created it all.


The more I see what science is discovering in this world of ours and the incredibly intricate ways it all is put together, the harder time I have in envisioning this Universe and world as being an accident or freak of the cosmos. To my mind it takes a lot more faith and belief that there isn't an intelligent designer behind it, then that there is.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 83
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 3:20:19 PM
Perhaps, you have boggle confused with baffle. Boggle, in the sense I applied it, means to hesitate or give second thought to something, whether it be moral, philosophical, ideological, or anything else. Whereas, baffled means to confuse or to astonish someone. Seems many people here have second thoughts or are hesitant in their beliefs, or why else post. If one is secure in what they believe, me included, they their only reason to post is to persuade someone to come to their point of view, the definition of preaching.

However, here, I believe we all have our points of views, and if open minded enough, we can see the others point of view while stating our own without, slander, without ridicule, after all the world is made out of opinions. Debating is fun; it is a sharing of ideas among a great diversity of minds. No one is a winner or a looser, rather all are winners having welcomed in new ideas, or ideologies.
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 84
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 3:30:03 PM

So then a legislative assemblyman, parliamentarian, or even a democratic population is not subject to laws it/they create(s)? Absurd.
Humans make laws and those same humans are subject to them.


The office or position of legislative assemblyman, parliamentarian etc, is not subject to the laws or it would not have the power to change, overturn or create them. The humans who fill those offices however are subject to them.
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 85
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:02:46 PM
Incorrect. The position of any of the above can be limited by the very law it helps to create, and subject to them. The position of assemblyman for example may not have the power to command the armed forces, as prescribed in a law it created. Nice try though....


That would only be because there is a greater authority to regulate it. That greater authority would then be required if the law needed to be`changed.


And what about the natural laws I mentioned?


What about them?

Nature is defined by the laws that bind it. It cannot create or make new ones. Therefore something else created and defined the laws.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 86
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:34:28 PM
When something is subject to laws, that same something cannot be the lawgiver.

Are god's actions random or governed by laws? If they are governed by laws then who created these laws? If random, then there are different kinds of random. Some random things have a Gaussian distribution. Others have a uniform distribution. Still others have a binomial distribution. Indeed, there are an infinite variety of random distributions. Who created these laws of randomness?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 87
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:36:28 PM
He spoke it into existence. Words have power.

How did god speak before he created words? How did he create before he had words and speech?
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 88
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 7:13:59 PM

I know, I know.... EVERYTHING needs a creator *EXCEPT* your god, right? He's existed for all of eternity and is exempt from laws such as old age, chaos theory, and disease.


Cause you keep thinking in terms of TIME which is a dimension of this Universe and subject to physical laws. "Outside" of the Universe is eternity. Something that exists in eternity always did exist because there is no time.


Why should people believe your version of a god over another god?


I haven't specified a particular god, James. I've so far only debated the necessity of an intelligence that created the Universe.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 89
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 8:38:17 PM
To me God is unknowable, is other than Its creation and therefore cannot be spoken about with any certainty. What is revealed to us, is through encounter with the inner self, the sub-conscious mind, and has been that way from day one. No one has seen the face of god and lived, neither, has anyone heard Its voice. Those who claim to have heard it say it is unrecognizable and is later perceived as thoughts. No one has been able to say, "Here, this is God! Let me show you. Proof is not in the offing.

To find God, the individual must look inward, and listen as to what the self has to say. Those who choose not to find God or believe in It, does not change the fact that the Deity exist. They just cut off their own nose to spite their face. The spirit of a person is eternal, whether one believes it or not. I believe one is doom to be recycled until they become enlightened. And if they never become enlightened, then they are sent to the garbage heap to be destroyed. Fear the one that can destroy both matter and spirit for we certainly cannot create either! If you have ears, listen to your inner self.
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 90
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 10:16:46 PM
Right. My point exactly... the UNIVERSE has always existed and always will in one form or another. No 'god' is needed for that.


Think again. All the evidence points to a dying expanding Universe (which the Bible predicted 3ooo+ years ago btw) which had a beginning.



You argue that there MUST be an intelligent designer because of 'natural law', but but, to quote a GREAT MIND:

"Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it fits its hole." - Douglas Adams


Neither he nor you seem to get it. The natural order of things is chaos, not fixed physical laws in whatever form they take.


In either case, I don't believe we have to resort to magical beings living in the sky to explain every last thing we don't understand.


Hark!! I hear the clang of a mind shutting its door!!


Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity, opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.
Albert Einstein
 TheLimey
Joined: 2/24/2008
Msg: 91
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/27/2008 11:31:35 PM

He spoke it into existence. Words have power.

In which case he was powerless as sound doesn't travel in a vacuum. (elementary grade physics)
 dustinchicago
Joined: 3/14/2008
Msg: 92
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/28/2008 10:18:49 AM
I read this all the time....

People confuse God (philosophy) with Religion (politics). They get pissed off, but they are pissed at Religion (and rightly so) because it, as an institution, invariably comes to issues of Control and Judgment.

Is it possible to have a purely philosophical discussion on what the nature of said divinity is? Obviously, you would have to agree there is (a) "(g/G)od" in order to have something about which to talk.

So, probably no conversation of that kind will happen, so now I ask myself "what kind of religion systems might we have if a majority of people, in this country, ascribed to the "God IS" philosophy?" For sure there would be a lot less focus on sin and guilt, and more focus on beauty and community.
 TheLimey
Joined: 2/24/2008
Msg: 93
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:42:25 PM

Now I haven't been a church goer for my entire adult life...but just recently after seeing the movie I read the book "The Davinci Code". And I feel like I've been a naive moron for this entire time!

Give "The End Of Faith" by Sam Harris a read...
 Sckoul
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 94
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:44:35 PM
Is there a God. No one truely knows. No one on this earth anyway. While people tell you that they have seen God or felt him, all that is is usuing Gods name for what you cant explain. The truth is if there is a God what God is up there? The Muslim God. The Catholic God, the Chritian God? No one knows. People will even go as far as saying there is only one God. How do you know? Christianity was made in Rome where they believed in many Gods. Whos to say they were wrong? My thing is the only thing on this world that is true is you. Your brain! Its everything. Its your personal God. When you make a bad decision, God didnt do that, you did. On the other hand when you make a good decision you did that not God. Take credit for yourself and the great things we do as humans. People who started religion wanted to use this for minipulation(which they have done well) to run people. Making people give credit to something they know they have never seen beofre. lol Take credit away from yourself so that you lack confidence. You know why cause the brain is the most strongest thing a person will ever have in life. Look at your brain....see how easily munipulated you have been. Be for real with yourself. Have you ever seen God or Jesus? At least the Muslims know Alijah Muhamid lived. lol
 Sckoul
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 95
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:47:21 PM
Also if you know astrology you will find out that the God in the Bible is the Sun. You will then know who the 3 wise men are and you will understadn why we celebrate Christmas and Easter. Its all in the Sun. Do your homework!
 Sckoul
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 96
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/28/2008 3:18:17 PM
Man people are killing me. No one knows if there is a God. No one even knows if God is a Spirit. lol That is a word that was given to us. a spirit. We dont even know if Ghost are true. lol We know nothing accept what we physically go through. If you cant explain something dont say it was God, say you just dont know how that happen. this is the problem. God is suppose to be the Overall Ruler of everything. So if there are spirits, God run them too. If there are Ghost, God runs them too. If there is a high almighty power then we wont know because like you last 2 people have said to know of God you have to be a God. If your a God, why praise another? If your not a God, please be honest with yourself and just say you dont know what is up there if there is something up there in the first place.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 97
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/28/2008 5:48:24 PM
Not that I completely agree with the book or movie, just that the possibility is certain that Jesus was actually a human being.

Actually the most likely possibility is that Jesus never existed. Search for the Historical Jesus thread to see what I mean.

I sympathize with you. I too was raised Roman Catholic, went to Church every Sunday plus the 7 Holy Days, and never question the Church or Bible until my 20's.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 98
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/28/2008 8:03:24 PM
YUP! There had to be Something to trigger the Big Bang and get all of this started
 Sckoul
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 99
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/29/2008 4:31:35 PM
Wait you say our existance is proof there is a God? What are you guys talking about. Who is God then? Please some one tell me. Since people say they know it is a God tell me about him. Dont read me Bible scriptures cause the truth is we dont know if God is Christian or Muslim or anything cause religion is a belief in the messenger. Now I need someone to tell me when they seen God knowing God said he wouldnt be back until the end..........I guess. lol No sence has been made of this except for you people who call God the things you cant expalin in life. Humans cant imagine them not knowing something so when they dont know, they say God did it. Why didnt God do Hurrican Katrina? Why is it only Nature did it? Cause you can explain it. Now if the Sun burns out are you gonna convince me God did that cause you dont know how the sun can burn out? What does God look like? Is he of Human form or is he able to transform into many things like comic book heros we make up in books? Please someone tell me how they TRUELY know there is a God. If you havent died before how you know there is a Heaven, a God, a Devil, or anything? All you know is what physically you exsperince on this earth. Thats a Religious book (The Bible) If there was no Bible no one would believe in God. I say that cause there was a time on this earth where there was no Jesus or Bible or Christianity and peole lived fine. Let me ask.....did Alexander The Great go to Heaven? Think about your answer!
 Sckoul
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 100
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/29/2008 4:38:19 PM
Certainty does exist. for you to say that is crazy. in the world there are a million opinions but only one truth. The problem is I dont think people are searching for truth. I say that cause people belive in a God they never seen but dont believe in there own parents who birthed them People believe in a human named Jesus more than a school teacher who teaches people things that they probably wouldnt learn outside that person. Now are we gonna find truth in God and Jesus...yea we will once we are done with this life. Until then we dont know.
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