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 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 101
Is there a god?Page 5 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)
What is the true beginning of all? What was the cause before God? What is the true religion?

What makes you think there was a beginning? Why not an infinite sequence of events? What does positing an eternal god get you that positing an eternal universe doesn't? What makes you think there is a true religion? Even if god exists, why would he/she/it/they want people to be religious? If god wants people to be religious why doesn't god tell us the true religion and make it completely unambiguous?
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 102
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/30/2008 10:24:02 AM
You know why God makes it ambiguous as to which religion is the true religion? There's NONE. NO one religion is the "true" religion. Instead each has an element of truth to it. We can learn from the teachings of different religions.

God is a loving Being of Light who doesn't belong to just one religion.

DW the Religious Mutt

WOOF!!
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 103
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/30/2008 5:55:41 PM

Posted by A Fortiori
There is no need for a greater authority to "regulate" as you put it. THE LAW regulates what the legislator, and the power of the legislative position can and can't do. Who creates the law? The legislator using the position to do so, and is as already shown, subject to the law it creates.


I think you confused yourself.
If a Legislator has the power to make a law that limits itself, it has the power to make a law to unlimit itself.


Let's take your angle on it. If god is not subject to any of the laws of the universe it created, then it is not subject to the laws of logic, as logic is a part of this universe and has laws that follow. According to you, as I see it, god is not subject to these laws of logic.


I was under the impression that logic was based on principles not laws.



Therefore god can exist and NOT exist in the same space and time (violating law of logic, an outright contradiction), because he is not subject to those laws. How can something exist and NOT exist at the same time?


From our limited perspective it would defy logic and yet according to Einstein, logic no longer seems logical as it approaches the speed of light due to time dilation. What other apparent "inconsistencies" have yet to be discovered?


Posted by TheLimey
In which case he was powerless as sound doesn't travel in a vacuum. (elementary grade physics)


The Universe is not a vacuum unless you're in a black hole which is more like a really big Filter Queen.
Elementary grade physics


Posted by seattlerain1

So after an infinity of time of just drifting around in the nothingness of nothingness your god got bored and created the entire universe just so he could put a man on a chunk of rock... and that man was bored, so he asked his god for someone to have sex with... and god screwed that up, so they threw her out of the garden and made a second woman more to God's liking?

And you say this with a straight face?


God screwed it up? Women need help with that?


Logic? Let's see...

ALL THINGS need a creator.
The creator doesn't need a creator because he always existed.

So I ask again... what created your god? It's just as likely the universe has always existed as your god has (other than one sentence in your religious book that was written by a bronze age man).


"THINGS" need a creator. God is not a thing. For all we know, this whole Universe is nothing more then a science project and outside of this one there are other science projects by other Gods but the bottom line is that this could only have come about by an intelligent designer, whatever you perceive him to be. The Universe shows signs of having had a beginning, and both the religious book written by the Bronze Age man and current scientific theory say that it will have an end. Therefore it cannot be eternal.
 Farve2009
Joined: 3/10/2008
Msg: 104
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/31/2008 1:03:42 AM
Its a nice thought and i hope its all true but i cant follow anything without a little proof. i just cant believe someones rightings and i cant stand going to church and seeing someone preach out of a book to me>I NEED PROOF. Scienece makes sense so til i see proof i have to go with the big bang theory. til then i have to say im agnostic
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 105
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/31/2008 7:46:39 AM
Seems a lot of people are hung up on this lawgiver, stuff. Humans make laws and principals. God created the universe, let us assume, its guiding principal are interpreted by the mind and the mind tries to makes sense of it surroundings. Mathematics, science, philosophies, religions are merely way of our senses to makes sense of our surroundings. In other words ideologies: second definition, "The science that treats the origin, evolution, and expression of human ideas.”

The Reader's Digest Encyclopedic Dictionary, p. 665.

The universe appears to follow certain laws and principal made by people in the third dimension, time the 4th dimension happens to us and thus is call the time continuum where we see slices of time in a continuous motions. A person in the 4h dimension would see a person life as a line, moving from point (A) to (B) or beginning and end. As scientist now understand things, there are eleven dimensions. A linear view, I believe, eclectically, dimensions are infinite.

http://www.fractalicawakening.com/11dims.htm

If God exists, and that is my contention, then It exist beyond all dimension and is other than his creator. According to this theory dimension start out a point, (infinitesimally minute and ends in the eleventh dimension that is also infinitesimally small; in other words a black hole of big bang proportions. God exist beyond dimension is, therefore, not subject to human interpretation of laws of physics. God, It, is other than existence. What we perceive, with our eyes are only light waves being reflected to our eyes, our eyes interpret this in the brain and present to us an image of what we think is real when it is only an illusion of the mind. A blind person perceive what they touch or hear, forming mental concepts of what is reality. To them the world appears in their minds eyes as something entirely different. A colorblind person see the world in a whole new perspective. They perceive only within their color range of the wavelengths of light their mind perceives

Law is from the same root of lie, [A Sax, lagu or lay, low; cog. SW, lag. Iccl. lag, log, Dan. lov, a law; the root is also in L. lex, a law (whence legal). LIE.] ... "The Law, theol. the code of Moses, or the books containing it: the perceptive part of revelation in contradistinction to the doctrinal,that is, to the gospel." Theological law is interpretation of humans and that is that. The New Webster Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language.

Some people get nature mixed up with God. True God is all aspects of Its creation, yet; the laws of nature are again human interpretations of what it perceive to be reality. When in reality we are all expanded points of infinity. A projection of the Creator thoughts. Time has no meaning to God who created it. Infinity is forever and nothingness at the same time. We are a part of that point.
 Farve2009
Joined: 3/10/2008
Msg: 106
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/31/2008 8:57:52 AM
I just need some type of proof.All you have have done is inforce the big bang theory which makes a lot of sense.
 Sckoul
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 107
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/31/2008 10:41:45 AM
Sage: You ask what is certainty. Ok For everyone. Certainty is what happened then and there. In life there is only one truth to true events. Truth equals certainty to any rational human who was there to view it or a human who has seen physical proof! The truth is the Twin Towers fell and I am certain that happened. I am not in NY but I seen physical evidence. I am certain that Dinasours were on the Earth cause the truth is we found physical evidence. Now I can admitt unlike most of you that I dont know what happen then but I do know something happen. If you can agree SOMETHING happen then there is a truth to be found. We know as humas that there is only one truth to what happens to anyone. Now about this God thing. Then please someone explain to me how this all happen? Was the Earth created in 7 days like the Christian God or did it do what the Muslims think it did (which is not the Earth being made in 7 days) lol tell me. Someone tell me what God looks like? lol you cant. People just argue that "they know he is real" when the truth is there has been no physical proof that there is any higher power of any sort. Now I am not asking you to believe me but to do some homework past your personal belief.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 108
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Is there a god?
Posted: 3/31/2008 5:10:32 PM

And one day, the study of God won't be religion, it will be science


That my friends is the very foundation of my belief in God--Something had to trigger the Big Bang and get this universe started. Logic dictates that the Big Bang could not have just come from nothing. Something can't come from nothing. Logic, science and reasoning have confirmed my faith in God, and His existence. I have no doubts not because a preacher told me so, but because of scientific reasoning.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 109
Is there a god?
Posted: 3/31/2008 6:40:51 PM

...other than his creator.


A Fortiori,

Okay, you caught me in a typo, err... should read is "other than his creation." However, to argue a point. What is to say that whatever we perceive is nothing more than an experiment in a petri dish, but; still one would want to argue, then who is the creator of the creator. If you ascribe the universe is eternal, than you give it as having the qualities of the god. Perhaps, it has intelligence. Perhaps this eternal universe you harp about is your creator. Might be you are correct, there is no after life and this all you have. Then again, perhaps you are wrong. Only a lonely atheist would make a religion our his atheism, or perhaps, just perhaps, he is really an agnostic. By the way the Greek word for γνόσίς meaning knowledge and in the early Christian tradition applied to those who believe you could have a personal knowledge of God. God is a personal experience not, an outer construct to be debate. God is to believed, or not believed. An agnostic person is mere one who has no personal knowledge of God. I think, thou, protest too much.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 110
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/1/2008 10:04:29 PM
I like this Hindu quote, coming from the Upanishad says, "Now there was Shvetaketu Aruneya. To him his father said, 'That which is the finest essence---this whole world has that as its soul. That is Reality. That is Atman. That art thou, Shevetaketu.'
'Do you, Sir, cause me to understand even more'
"So be it, my dear,' said he. . . 'Bring hither a fig.'
'Here it is, Sir'
'Divide it.'
'It is divided, Sir.'
'What do you see there?'
'Those rather fine seeds, Sir.'
'Of these, please divide one.'
'It is divided, Sir.'
What do you see there?'
'Nothing at all, Sir?'
Then he said to him: 'Verily, my dear the finest essence which you do not perceive---verily, my dear, from that finest essence this great Nyagrodha (sacred fig) tree thus arises. Believe me, my dear.' said he, 'that which is the finest essence---this whole world has that as it soul. That is Reality. That is Atman. That art thou, Shevetaketu.'"

MAN'S RELIGIONS, by John B. Noss, p. 100, Macmillan Publishing Co. Inc. New York, c. 1974.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 111
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/2/2008 12:39:38 AM
They had a concept of the atom, so why not more knowledge, they were great philosopher. Perhaps the Aryans, t o thenorth who invaded India, had even greater knowledge. Recent digs in Russia suggest such knowledge, as cool and heating system that, we as modern humans do not know how to replicate. Maybe we originated from a very advance civilization yet to be reveal and only a great dark age erased much of such knowledge. We do not know everything of human civilization. As we speak, Nation Geographic has given it support to help dig in Bosnia to determine the age of their pyramids, estimated to be twelve thousand years old. About 17,000 years ago a great rising of the oceans flooded may civilization that are now under water on continental shelves. We do not have the complete picture. Indeed, that is the fault of humans to make assumptions on partial data. We often say, "This is the way it was, only ten years later having to revises our conclusion. That is not logical. Science itself is away subject to change by it pure definition. As new data is received, new theories have to be formulated.

I believe human civilization has uneven rises and falls, much like tidal currents, only in slow motion. The idea, that we are the most advance civilization is premature. Maybe, we are indeed the ancestor of ancient astronauts. Only in the last 100 years has the human race even come close to prior civilizations. The Hindu knew of the atom as the building block of all things. DNA is no more that what make a seed a fig, or a mustard plant. We do not give ancients the credit they deserve. Greek civilization borrowed must of their know from the Hindu/Aryan races. These people were not stupid, they were brilliant and would hold their own with any modern age human. Things are alway more complicated then they seem, even the search for God.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 112
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/2/2008 11:07:25 AM
chelloveck,

We could dispute the existence of God to the end of time, and perhaps we will, if reincarnation is true, yet; either way a non belief in God is a valid as a belief in God. My question to you is where did matter come from? And do not give me this theory that it as always been, because then; you are ascribing the same properties to matter as you would a God; it is eternal, it has alway been and will alway be in exist. It created itself out of nothing and it is the prime mover.

On the contrary, I say God is the prime mover, the creator of matter and anti-matter, time space and etc. How we came upon this planet, who knows. Perhaps we Mars could no longer sustain us any more and we had to move. Or perhaps greated DNA and seeded the universe.

 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 113
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/2/2008 12:50:25 PM
Debating is fun, for most people; I do not see it as arguing. It is a way of getting our point across, and for some it is a competition, as to I win debating points. No correct answer exists as to believe in an eternal God or eternal matter is a stalemate. Christian want to persuade others in believing by quoting scriptures. Scripture of any type is not proof. It is a matter choice in what you believe. Some want to save your soul from hell, I do not believe in hell. I believe incarnation; you keep living repeatedly until you become enlightened. It does not matter if you agree with me or not. In the end, it is either nothing, or more life.

I believe the spirit is just as real as the physical, or I believe in the Meta physical, that which lies alongside the physical world. To Plato, in the allegory of the cave, we are mere reflections of the "ideal"; that out there, somewhere is the perfect model of everything, and we are mere shadow, or imperfections of the ideal.

Most people have to ascribe to the idea that there was a beginning and there is an end to matter and the only reality is the spiritual. To express you ideas is a way of confirming you belief system. I personally have been dead and have been to the other side. I have a personal knowledge that only few experience. I am not here to convert anybody. My views have changed greatly over the years as I have matured. I was an existentialist, now I am more Kantian and Jungian in my beliefs. One experiences the world from the only reality, the self. To say I think, therefore I am, is inadequate; I think, I experience, I perceive; therefore, I am.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 114
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/2/2008 3:32:57 PM

"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)


Yeah, and it turned his hair white, huh, so that what wrong with my hair.
 Sckoul
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 115
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/3/2008 2:55:47 PM
Thank you Guy named Ray. The point is your mind is the God if any. A persons whole belief in religion is in there head. People like another has said, just dont learn your God but learn about yourself. The truth lies there!
 Sckoul
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 116
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/4/2008 2:15:55 PM
If God is real to you and your story of belief is the Bible then let me ask you this, why is everything about Jesus the exact same thing as Horus the Son god of Egypt did before him? Please study up I am passing education out. lol I can give you more charectors in the world who share Jesus story if you need be.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 117
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/6/2008 4:08:05 PM
sckoul,


If God is real to you and your story of belief is the Bible then let me ask you this, why is everything about Jesus the exact same thing as Horus the Son god of Egypt did before him? Please study up I am passing education out. lol I can give you more charectors in the world who share Jesus story if you need be.


No doubt, you have a point: Isis as Mary, Jesus as Horus, both born mystically and having no father. At first, Christian were as a small sect of Judaism, and when the gentiles who were converted over to Christian found not problem incorporating Egyptian beliefs, and Hindu beliefs of incarnation of God as human, in order to make the religion more acceptable to the Romans. The Romans would never accept the King of the Jews unless he was the Son of God, which, by the way, Jesus never claimed to be, other than as we are all sons of God. A Jewish messiah would never have gone over in Rome, so the early Christian had to deify Jesus as more that merely the Messiah, the Son of Man predicted in the Old Testament.

What was give to the Romans was a new religion with a combination of ancient concepts, a blending if you will. When Rome found out that other Gospels existed, which went counter what “bill of goods” they were “sold”? They met at Nice and ordered all the other Gnostic gospels to be destroyed. The apostle Paul found no problem to represent as Love, in Corinth, the site of the goddess of Love Aphrodite. What the church Universal or catholic has given us is a blended, washed down view of the history of the man Jesus. I believe Jesus is a son of God, and he did many things to amaze the peoples, perhaps even over coming death itself. Yet, I am a mystic, a spiritualist and to find God you have to search your soul for you will not find God in facts. Every fact has been distorted, by the brains, which have interpreted what they have discovered, me included. God speaks to us, in small, calm voice, through your subconscious mind. It is in your mind you will find the truth. Anyone, who says they know God exist out there somewhere, is correct and wrong, for you can find God in every living and non-living thing. God is all things, God is greater than all things and God is beyond all things. God cannot be understood or grasped, It is a thing sought after through your thoughts.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 118
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/6/2008 8:21:15 PM
You know very little about the early Christian era, and the mad rush to crush the gnostic movement by the Catholic Church, it was a threat to the emperor himself. All we have of the New Testament are the books they approved at the council of Nice in which the Bible was canonized. A few monks and priests felt this was wrong and buried their gnostic gospels in stone jars. Some of these gospels have since been unearth. Too, late, the church Universal got it wish, a long line of believers who have only part of the story. I have a Bachelors in Bible and it took me years of study to undo the brainwashing. In order to know Jesus, one must have all the knowledge, including the gospel according Mary Magdalene.

The church built was never the one Christ established. What we have is continuation of the Roman Empire, whether Catholic or Protestant. Instead of an Emperor, you have a Pope. To find the true Jesus, one has to look and discover what is not in the Bible. I consider Jesus as an historical figure who came closer to understanding God and reality more than any other man. Life is an illusion, an apparition for our senses; therefore, he knew that he could walk on water, heal the sick and change water into wine. When we realize this, we too, can say to the mountain, get up and jump into the sea. Olan
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 119
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/7/2008 11:34:29 PM

As for your reference to monks and priests burying gospels in stone jars, are you referring to the Dead Sea Scrolls? If you are, you'll want to check out various academic sites to see just how "unhistorical" your version really is!{\


No, I am referring to the few Gnostic gospels that have survived the purge by the Church Universal. As for Constantine, he was only interested in preserving the remnants of the falling Empire of Rome. He saw a good thing with the Church; Constantine was not even a Christian until his death, when he except Christ as his savior. His motivation is open to discussion by many historians. What has happened is we have a watered down, not my opinion alone, of what Christianity was truly meant to be. With Easter, Christmas, Corinthian's Thirteen calling God "love (agape)" was I direct result to convert the Aphrodite community in Corinth. The Christmas tree is a part of the worship of the Tree god of the tree found in German pantheism.

Whether, the canonization occurred in Nicaea or later, it was a result of the Romans to wipe out all other sect of Christianity, which existed from the time of Christ. Read the Gnostic works, and you will find a different view of Christ. Anything, written which took away from the divinity of Christ was destroyed, or anything, which said, you can find God through self-experience was destroyed and if it not for he priest and the monks work to save these gospels we would know nothing about it. And by the way, I have 34 years of study and ministry. Open your mind and read more than what the Church has to say about the gospels. They wanted power; power over
the people, and all that they had. For the worshiper to have knowledge of the Bible was taboo.

What the church was, in the first century is unknown, we do know, it was much different than it is to day. What happen in Rome was a tragedy, the Peterist's of the world are very mistaken. God is not through with his revelation. Not until the end of time. Not all things have been revealed, Christ has not returned in the form of the church, nor in 1914 as the Jehovah's witnesses believe. No one knows the hour or the day he will return.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 120
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/8/2008 10:14:13 AM
Who knows what John was revealing to use in revelations. Some people are pre-millennial , other are post. What John experience was what is called a hypnopompic encounter, common among eastern religions. He wrote down what he saw and related it to the ages and asked that no one to add or take from it. The Hindi, also used this technique to find God, and many others have these visions. These visions, I believe, are of God, and if God is finished with his revelation, then why is God still sending visions of enlightenment to those who listen and are open to his being.

The early Christian believed the end is eminent, yet; they measured time differently than God. God created the universe in stages, not days. A day is but a 1000 years unto the Lord is just a way of saying, God does not measure time the way we do. To be omnipresent is to say God lives outside our three dimensions and can view time in the fourth dimension. In the fourth dimension a life is view as a line, from beginning to end. In the fourth dimension time has no meaning, everything is displayed at once. We live in what is call the time-continuum, where we only see slices of moments, called the present. So, the early Christians saw only slice of what is, and assumed the end would be near. When some of them began to die, they had to account for that.

Roman was quick to pounce on this by saying that Christ has come and he is represented by the Pope, and to be fair, so have many other protestant religions. I believe that Messiah of the Jews, presented to the world was washed down version of what the Christ intended. Firstly, the Jews, then the rest of the world. I compare the world today as Pharisees and Sadducees, those who live their lives with blinders (Sadducees ) and those with their eyes wide open, (Pharisees). To much of Christianity is dead to the world because, outsiders looking in, see a close minded and narrow minded people. Jesus did mystical things and would be consider a mystic in todays world. The path that leads to heaven is lightly traveled, and God has revealed this to me in a dream. Many others will reach heaven before the Christians, I have seen this and know it is true.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 121
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/9/2008 10:10:28 AM
Authority comes for knowing your history, not being able recite others. Be brave and thing for yourself. Read and make knew ideas; that is what the world needs, is thinkers, not people who are able to regurgitate what they have read. What the world needs are thinkers, people who are able to adventure out on the narrow and untrodden pathways. If I speak with authority, then it come for God, not me.
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 122
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Is there a god?
Posted: 4/9/2008 12:47:00 PM

Wow. If that isn't one of the scariest, egomanical things I've ever read here.... and I've read A LOT. Do you honestly believe that, or did it come out wrong?


Lol, it's actually a very humble thing to say.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 123
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/9/2008 12:52:57 PM


If I speak with authority, then it come for God, not me.


Wow. If that isn't one of the scariest, egomanical things I've ever read here.... and I've read A LOT. Do you honestly believe that, or did it come out wrong?


Lol, it's actually a very humble thing to say.

The hell it is. It implies the speaker knows intimately the will of God and can speak with their authority. Utter nonsense at the least, meglomaniacal delusion of grandeur and potentially dangerous at the worst.
 E.Kyro
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 124
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History
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/9/2008 1:07:56 PM

The hell it is. It implies the speaker knows intimately the will of God and can speak with their authority. Utter nonsense at the least, meglomaniacal delusion of grandeur and potentially dangerous at the worst.


No fiddler, it means that the speaker acknowledges that if he said anything of value, it was God speaking through him. If not, then it came from his own opinion. When God is within someone, that becomes entirely possible.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 125
Is there a god?
Posted: 4/9/2008 1:17:44 PM
Everyone is a son of God, and he who believes in God is a messenger of God. If you are a mystic, spiritualist then you know of Gods works in all religions, not just one. Every religion has it source, yet; if they say their way is the only way; then they are not of God but of man. Jesus can to the Jews as their Christ, anointed one. He spoke to the Jews and ministered to the Jews. For him, Judaism was the way to God. If you do not believe in yourself then you should not be giving opinions. God speaks through all of us, in different ways. God is not through with his work, his revelation, and we need to speak about our beliefs with conviction. It is up to the listener to accept or reject what the messengers of God speak.

If I have written anything, which is unacceptable to you, or as not coming from God, then reject it. All I have said from the beginning is there is more than one way to find God, to go heaven and we as a world need to pull together and except our differences or perish. The killing in God's name is wrong and it must stop. If you kill in God's name, you are profaning God and Its existence. We need to get our act together, and soon. The killing must stop. God exist, it matters not whether someone chooses not to believe, and it does not change the situation of creation. I preach no new religion, only that we need to accept our difference and learn to live in peace. My authority is not my own, because I could not do this on my own, neither can any preacher, nor can any messenger claim he is speaking on his own authority. Rise up and preach peace among religions. Look for what is right in the world and not what is wrong. Find similarities, not differences. For the time is coming when all the countries will have to fight a common enemy, whether it be famine, plague, global warming, asteroid strike, or some altogether unforeseen.
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