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 that sam i am
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 132
What if Prostitution was Legal?Page 2 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
When dealing with prostitutes, men are not paying for the hookers to have sex, they're paying for them to leave after having sex.
 johnny7103
Joined: 4/1/2008
Msg: 134
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/15/2008 8:45:51 AM
Tourism from your neighbors would increase. Hookers would come to your country to get better workers rights and pay. All your drug dealers would hang out in the hooker district.
Local men would be happier. Local women would be itchier.
 jessikaowl
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 135
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:22:18 AM

When dealing with prostitutes, men are not paying for the hookers to have sex, they're paying for them to leave after having sex.

you got it, Chef

Prostitution is technically legal in Canada, although most don't know it since we just assume it's the same as in the states where it's illegal, and it hasn't made Canada fall into chaos.

It's been proven that making it legal doesn't really do anything, except make that whole process/job safer..... for EVERYONE who choses to be involved. But instead of saving lives, they pick to save so called "morals". I'm sure that really helps a poor beaten up hooker to sleep at night, having people think she's a sinner..... instead of regulating something that she was doing anyway.
 Ralph42
Joined: 5/27/2006
Msg: 136
Hookers are People Too!
Posted: 6/15/2008 11:11:31 AM
The initial question posed about the impact of legalizing prostitution seems trivial to answer and there is something near a consensus about it. The legal status of prostitution is not going to impact significantly on the dynamics of personal relationships. The implicit hoping that non-prostitutes would more willingly engage in sexual relations if prostitution was legal seems rather forlorn.

An issue about the legal status of prostitution seems to have permeated a number of the responses. Formally, prostitution is legal in Canada and in some parts of the US as well as some European countries and elsewhere. Certainly in Canada there are severe restrictions surrounding the legal status of prostitution and it is effectively illegal to engage in prostitution. Just to put a little perspective on this, in Canada, the laws dealing with prostitution make illegal not only solicitation, but the use of a place as well as living off of prostitution. While the various laws are not heavily enforced, they exist and they can be deployed when officials so choose.

The European experience of legal prostitution seems to have a few lessons. By removing the legal restrictions, the risk of engaging in prostitution diminishes and with it the cost. Legalization would likely reduce the price prostitutes are able to charge. At the same time, a prostitute is likely to face greater costs because the activity will at the very least be regulated in some way. Anyone who thinks prostitutes will somehow benefit substantially from legalization are probably mistaken. It is also unlikely that there would be any significant increase in the number of prostitutes or demand for their services. Relatively lower prices simply reflect the removal of the risk component.

The false analogies offered in this thread are painfully common. Prostitution is rather clearly distinct from other activities in which services are exchanged for money (like a job for instance). Thinking otherwise leads to some interesting issues that deserve further consideration.

Pretending that dating and marriage are really comparable to prostitution is rather difficult to maintain in any critical examination. Perhaps the most significant difference is the objective. There is a massive realm of human relations that still is outside the realm of economic exchange. Prostitution is an economically driven exchange of sex for money. If anyone feels that the objective of a date or marriage is to exchange sex for money, by all means try an reason this out a bit. This is not to suggest that there is no economic considerations in dating or marriage, it is simply to suggest that these relationships transcend such considerations. Attempting to equate personal relationships to prostitution is a reduction to absurdity.

It is also an open question as to whether prostitution is a victimless activity. I have no doubt that a significant number of prostitutes choose to enter into prostitution because they are lazy and greedy. Even so, I strongly doubt that this choice would be made if an alternative were available that offered them even a relatively small comparative income. Of greater concern should be the prostitutes for whom there is no rational alternative available. Exactly how many doctors and lawyers or even unionized autoworkers moonlight as prostitutes? My guess would be none. Why is that? Prostitutes are generally low-skilled individuals engaged in about the only activity that offers them anything more than minimum wage. (Please spare me the need to bring up all the so-called students who engage in prostitution. You can count them on one hand.) In addition to the very real possibility of the prostitute being victimized, the client is a potential victim (just like a gambler or drug addict), not to mention the social circle of both the prostitute and the client. Obviously not all prostitutes or clients are victims, but some just as obviously are victims.

Perhaps the greatest difficulty in any attempt at normalizing prostitution are the larger policy implications. If politicians come to accept that prostitution is a legitimate form of employment, it could also mean that engaging in prostitution is an acceptable alternative to government subsidies. So, taking that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, what happens to an unskilled laborer who is seeking government assistance through employment insurance (or more significantly social assistance) when a brothel is seeking more prostitutes? Certainly in Canada and the US, the attitude towards a person refusing an offer of work is rather harsh. What happens if prostitution is considered an acceptable form of employment? How many people here are okay with forcing an unemployed welfare mother into working as a prostitute? (If you think this is just idle speculation, think again.)

While legalization of prostitution might be beneficial to some and it might well resolve one aspect of a rather puritan social worldview common in Canada and the USA, it is hardly as simple or trivial as some here seem to project. There is a difference between prostitution and any other source of self-funding.
 Stajieenikkie
Joined: 4/29/2004
Msg: 140
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/15/2008 1:05:55 PM
Im not sure it would really change much I know plenty of woman that readily give sex out free of charge.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 142
Hookers are People Too!
Posted: 6/15/2008 11:49:40 PM

The false analogies offered in this thread are painfully common. Prostitution is rather clearly distinct from other activities in which services are exchanged for money (like a job for instance).


Apparently, you have not met any prostitutes. The only ones who make decent money are the ones who treat exactly like any other job by getting up and going to work everyday.


Even so, I strongly doubt that this choice would be made if an alternative were available that offered them even a relatively small comparative income.


Again, you speak from ignorance. The ones I've known who were successful did it precisely because it offered them better pay and more free time to raise their kids than any regular job would. You really ought to talk to a few before drawing conclusions about them.
 crayonzz
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 143
Hookers are People Too!
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:18:30 AM
It IS legal in several places, from Amsterdam, to Melbourne. In a great many more places it's illegal in name only but never prosecuted.

Places it's legal don't differ from places it's not.
 abbey74
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 144
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:27:43 AM
i think the men that dont visit prostitutes do so because its illegal,its because it costs a shitload.
 abbey74
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 145
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:42:30 AM
ill say this more clearly; the men that dont visit prostitutes dont do so because it is illegal,its because it costs a shitload
 jenni_ipswich
Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 148
view profile
History
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/17/2008 2:24:40 PM
i dnt agree with the reason why u think it should be legelised but i do think it should be legalised

i live in ipswich in the uk and bk in 2006 5 prostitutes got murded in the space of 2 weeks (one of which was less than a mile from my home!)

if this was legalised u wouldnt have problems like this if its legalised it clean and safe they would get regular checks pay tax n national insurance and would be kept an eye on from nasty punters who beat and prey on them !

im also half german and it is legal in germany if u go to germany and u see a love heart on the side of a caravan u know its a prostitute and you also have big houses(brothels)
which they do there buisness from and get well looked after!


xxx jenni xxx
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 149
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/22/2008 2:02:42 PM
seriously ???? you guys would do it if it was legal ??? dont you have standards ?have you seen the girls up close??


Not just up close, but up close and personal. Why do you ask?


why would anyone want to sleep with a prostitute.....im guessing its the kink ? the power?


Here are but a few reasons:

(1) convenience - getting laid is just a phone call away;
(2) no games to play - especially ``hard to get'';
(3) no ``what does it mean when...'' questions to ponder and post all over the internet;
(4) I've had sex without paying upfront before so I don't need to tell myself and everyone who will listen that I'd never pay for it. One way or another, men pay for sex and women pay with sex. If I want to pay upfront, with no hidden charges, I will;
(5) I'm not going to hurt the feelings of someone who expected sex would lead to a relationship if all I want is sex. I'm not too cheap to pay for that privilige and I don't have to use someone to protect my ego;
(6) I feel safer with respect to STDs than in a casual hookup;
(7) You can be as superficial in emphasizing looks as your wallet is fat. (see #2)
(8) It's far less expensive than you might think if you look past the cost upfront.
(9) Neither person wonders if it's too soon to call the other.
(10) You'll be less tempted to overlook a date's psychotic behaviour in order to get laid if you don't have to depend on your date for sex. In other words, you can go out on a date and always think with the big head.


i cant imagine having sex with a girl that didnt want to have sex with me ...why bother ?

You don't necessarily have to. Although that might be true if you pick different people at random each time, it's not necessarily that way. Think of it as having the potential for a paid friends with benefits, and - you might not always pay. Prostitutes are people, so it is possible to like them as people.


why risk ..lice , warts, herpes or anything else you can catch even with protection...


Any time you have sex, you are taking that risk. The question is how to minimize it. I wouldn't trust anyone who would go home with me after meeting me in a bar. On the other hand, you won't get to visit an escort without her knowing something about you before agreeing to meet with you. Escorts can be pickier than you might think. Unlike girlfriends (if this forum is any indication), your visit won't last long if you have bad breath or haven't showered within the last couple of hours.

why take advantage of a girl whos suffering from a drug addicton and probably beaten and forced into it ...slave trade(eastern euro and chinese girls )????
for me its not much better than rape ...the pimp beats the girl unless she sleeps with YOU ..for cash ...shes having sex often because she fears of violence or for drugs ...


If you want to discuss prostitutes, you should stick to women who became prostitutes on purpose. Drug addicts resort to lots of things to pay for drugs. Prostitution is one of them. It's not the same activity. Sex slavery and prostitution are not the same, either. Using one to argue against the other is a fallacious argument. To answer the first part, why take advantage of a woman who expects to have a relationship if all you want is sex? Is that not using her?

each to their own ...i prefer a girlfriend i fancy the pants off and a real relationship!


Having a girlfriend might be ideal, but nothing comes without a price. Making the right decision requires being honest about what you want and not trying to get it the wrong way. If you want sex and don't want the responsibility that goes along with having a girlfriend, the wrong thing to do is string a woman along for sex and call her your girlfriend.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 153
view profile
History
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/23/2008 6:19:45 PM
I think if prostitution were legalized, not a lot would change overnight because there is still a moral stigma about it. There is no question that a lot of men would use the legal service, but many would continue not to. Perhaps legalized prostitution could reduce some sex offender stats, perhaps not.

In the long run, there might be some influence over the dating world as women would ultimately not be able to hold men hostage for the availability of sex, quite as much as they do now. But men are interested in more than just sex, so many of the same dating games would continue for quite some time, if not forever.
 scorpiocatch22
Joined: 7/16/2007
Msg: 158
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/24/2008 3:50:49 PM
Well Zipp look at it this way, if you take them out for food and drinks, a movie or whatever than back to the house and than you get some, you've paid for it anyway!!!
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 159
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:11:09 PM

i dont think anyone was seriously suggesting that they would ever use a prostitute


You don't think that list of reasons I gave was purely hypothetical do you? Girlfriends have a price. Prostitutes have a price. You get somewhat different things with each. The latter price can be paid in cash only. I've had enough girlfriends to know the price of a girlfriend. Choosing one over the other is a matter of what you want and what you're willing to pay at any given time. If what you want is sex, playing games and going out on dates in order to use someone for sex is not only unethical, it's stupid.


but when people have to resort to selling themselves just to make a living then its obvious that somewhere along the line our government


You assume that all prostitutes have ``resorted'' to prostitution. Perhaps they have in the sense of choosing a job based on the trading off pay rate, hours and the desire for that type of work, but in that case, most everyone ``resorts'' to the type of work they do.


And much like the guys who buy fleshlights, if you do use prostitutes and youre wondering why youre single then maybe you should question the whole "f*cking hookers" thing youve got going on


I'm not wondering why I'm single. I'm single because at this time, I don't want the added complications that go along with having to consider someome else's long term goals. Even if I wanted a girlfriend, my chances of finding one that is really the type of person I want will be enhanced if thinking with the little head doesn't get in the way.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 160
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:17:00 PM

I think if prostitution were legalized, not a lot would change overnight


One thing that would change is that the number of threads that start out with a complaint of being used by a guy for sex, guys pressuring women for sex, etc. would drop like a rock. On the other hand, the number of threads with women complaining that they have nothing else to offer or that their requirements are unrealistic would probably increase.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 161
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:19:54 PM

Sex without love is working pretty damn good for me compared to my marriage.


He he. Given that the majority of men who visit prostitutes are married, your complaint must be a common one.
 Sardonis
Joined: 9/28/2007
Msg: 162
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/24/2008 4:24:42 PM
It does not matter if it is illegal, prostitution is everywhere.

It's like the Matrix, you just have to open your eyes and learn to see it.


But still the OP is a good question. I don't think it would change women so much. But it may help some guys be more confident if they are not desperate to get laid. As long as they don't begin to see relations between a man and a woman as just another form of prostitution. It's like a solution to it's own problem.

 newblue1970
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 163
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/24/2008 5:47:27 PM
I don't think it would change anything at all. Do you really think that horny guys would just go to a prostitute? And the reason that someone that might not go to one now is because it is illegal? Thats ridiculous. Men who are inclined to use a prostitute do it now and men that aren't won't be swayed just because of the legal issue.

I'm sure other guys must think like I do - that there's no way I would ever go to one. My partners excitement and pleasure have to be real - thats what excites me. They have to want me just as much as I want them. Being paid to be there makes everything an act - just like the porn queens who scream in ecstacy after the guys pulled out and she's not even being touched anymore. If I don't have an SO, I'd much rather take care of myself - that way at least I know those involved want to be there!
 leykis101student
Joined: 5/10/2008
Msg: 164
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/25/2008 4:39:12 PM
@Abelian- I salute you. Brilliant responses. Clearly you are an intelligent person. No doubt.

@zain- "Some people can separate sex from love, others can't. Sex can still be a very fun erotic sensual experience if you are not in love with the person. "

That was a superb comment. I can totally relate to that!!!!

I would like to add some points:

1> I don't know if its only me ......but I think its a boy's own childhood dream to see and have access to as many vaginas as possible in my lifetime. So we watch porn....we try to get as many poons as possible through dating. But why should other opportunities should not be explored? Somebody may ask, then what about rape? Well that involves coercion. Prostitution means that the women are doing it on their own volition.

So say if you out of a relationship and you need sex, you get it instantly! Just like if you are hungry you order pizza. People here seem to ask you to make the pizza yourself. Well guess what .....what makes you stop from ordering my pizza?? I am not stealing your pizza.

How great would it feel at age 70 to look back and see that you have penetrated 100 different and unique vaginas?? Huh. Now compare that to a single vagina of a 30 year marriage which you look back upon with derision. :)

2> Some fools conveniently compare prostitution with trafficking. Well guess what...is it my fault that some chick got through to this country via illegal means? Bottomline is a lot of people take up jobs which they don't like. But it gets them through. What about coal mining? Huh? Working in a radioactive plant?? Why don't the bleeding hearts talk about these professions? You may not like the working conditions, but did anyone hold a gun to the girls head and say "be a hooker". If that is a case, it is a coercion problem and should be treated as such. And these problems generally arise when banned activities like prostitution go underground. Its like betting. If it was legal, pimps would be out of business. Some say most prostitutes are drug addicts and thus by patronizing them, you are killing people. Tch tch. So say if Morgan Stanley hires an i-banker who is an alcoholic, then they are criminals too!!! What someone does with their bodies is their choice- their choice to sell their body...their choice to do drugs.

3> Some people try to appear supercilious by saying that "Prostitution is for losers". I simply have pity for such stupid people. I like ice cream. I go to free ice cream socials (read dating) and I also buy ice cream (prostitution). So if I am not invited to ice cream socials, I am a loser for buying ice cream. I see. The brilliance of stupidity!! Amazing.
Such people should realize that the reason why many guys don't want to do dating the society approved way is that they don't like talking with girls about shopping or stupid chitchat. But many of them immensely love the vagina. Immensely.

But the psychology of such persons are to be understood. So say some guy ABC scores on a lot of chicks by playing the dating game. He doesnt want other guys to get the same benefits by the biggest instrument of capitalism- money. Its a selfish attitude and one which has nothing to do with morality. :) More than anything, it is about options. Guys should watch porn, go to strip clubs, try to score chicks and date them....and when they are single or just out of a relationship....should have the option of using their OWN fing money to get a girl who is giving it to them on her OWN volition to get sex. W heather he chooses to exercise that option is irrelevant. But who is the society to put a barricade to that option? Practice sanctimony on yourself....not on others.
 CuterThanU
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 166
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/25/2008 8:30:33 PM
>

It wouldn't change a thing.
Most men want acceptance from a woman. Not sex. Sex is just the icing on the cake.
They consider "paying for sex" as a hit on their masculinity. However they fail to realise that taking a woman to an expensive restaurant, buying her expensive gifts, and taking her out with money from their own wallet is just as or even moreso pathetic than paying to get laid.
And THIS my friends is what's truly sad.
:modhammer:
 Ralph42
Joined: 5/27/2006
Msg: 167
Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:35:32 PM
So I'm checking back on this thread and some of the profoundly stupid comments that have managed to be posted...

From a male perspective, prostitutes are just a poor substitute for a mate. They reproduce an act of mating without the benefit. I know a lot of guys out in the world don't quite see it that way but the base purpose of sex is reproducing so your genes survive. That is why we are all programmed to want sex. If reproduction is not involved in the sex you have, your genes don't survive and you are already dead -- you just don't realize it. Prostitutes offer sex, and only sex.

Of course, humans have moved on somewhat and have sex for pleasure too. Again, prostitutes offer a rather poor substitute for that purpose. Pleasure in sex is a lot more than just the act of sex. The pleasure of the act is derived from the interaction before and after. Prostitutes merely offer the physical act. Try as you might, you know that satisfying sex is a lot more than a physical act.

I find it difficult to fathom the males responding here trying to rationalize the isolation of the act of sex from the relational situation that encompasses sex. While it is certainly possible to do so (though not for all), it is effectively masterbation. For those gentlemen that have masterbated, do you really feel satisfied? All I can tell the sad souls that want to believe this nonsense is -- you're wrong. You probably know it but it would destroy your ego to have to confront that fact. Do you feel good after being with a prostitute? What do you do when your time is up?

All the jokes about paying for her to leave aside, the hard reality is that men want her to stay. That is the real ego trip. For those that have experience with prostitutes, just ask yourself, isn't it so much better when she goes above and beyond her role as a prostitute and does something like go out for dinner with you or spends more than just the allotted time with you without charging? If you've had the experience you know that makes the interaction so much better. If you're honest with yourself, you should now see that the very foundation of your claims about prostitution have disappeared.

Why would you all be hanging around a dating site if prostitution was such a panacea? Sure, there probably are a few prostitutes lurking here, but really. This is not the right place to be looking if you're looking for prostitutes. If your reduction of relationships to an act of prostitution had any validity, why would you possibly be here specifying desires for relationships you supposedly believe you can derive from prostitutes?

The fact that you are here, of course, leads me to suspect you feel the inherent contradiction of your position more than you care to admit. Deep down you want a relationship. So what's the problem? Well, as has been said many times in many places, if you are failing at relationships, the common denominator is YOU. Take a good hard look at yourself and you'll probably see what makes you unattractive to women for the purposes of a relationship. Don't pretend it is simply because you're not the best looking guy out there, or the richest guy out there, or whatever. A lot of ordinary guys can do it. YOU are your problem.

It never ceases to amaze me that there are such whiners in this world. Men singing the praises of prostitution come across as offensively as women that loudly pronounce their independence from men. It really is true that our society is choked full of lonely people of both genders. A place like this and a thread like this just makes it obvious.

Anyway, if you can't get dates with any decent women, that's your problem. Solve it. Or, accept the fact that you are a loser in the game of relationships. You might be able to fool yourself into believing that prostitutes are just as good but, somehow, the determined prostestations here seem a bit too much -- if you know what I mean.

Some of the specific comments on prostitution made here deserve rebuttal.


If prostitution were legal... we would pbobably see a lot less complaints from women about men that "only want one thing".


LOL! Wrong! Men do only want one thing. But the source of that desire is in the urge to reproduce themselves. I know most sex isn't just about having babies but without our brain feeling that this need is being met by the sex being engaged, a we won't feel satisfied.


The only ones who make decent money are the ones who treat exactly like any other job by getting up and going to work everyday.


But it isn't "exactly like any other job" and that was my point -- which you obviously missed.


The ones I've known who were successful did it precisely because it offered them better pay and more free time to raise their kids than any regular job would.


What is interesting about your comment, is the conditioning of your statement. Just how many "successful" prostitutes have you known out of all the prostitutes you have known?

Anyway, you might want to ask yourself whether your opinion of prostitution offering "better pay and more free time" is actually true? I mean, if it's such a good deal for the prostitutes, why is it that women aren't lining up to be prostitutes? Don't you find that a bit odd? I mean, if floor sweeper all of a sudden paid $100 per hour and required only 4 hours work per day, I get the feeling there would be a flood of job applicants.

I realize that there's a social stigma to being a prostitute and in North America it is more-or-less illegal. Even so, there seem to be plenty of illegal workers in a host of industries with no skill requirements. If prostitution is just another job, why doesn't it manage to achieve the same or even more given the "better pay and more free time" it offers?


if prostitution was legal you ladies would be here by yourselves asking "where have all the men gone?"


Since we have countries in this world where prostitution is legal, and the evidence I'm aware of doesn't support your claim, I'd say it would more likely have little or no impact on relationships as such. Honestly, it surprises me that there are single males arguing the case for prostitution.


If you want to discuss prostitutes, you should stick to women who became prostitutes on purpose. Drug addicts... Sex slavery and prostitution are not the same...


Doing so would reduce the discussion of prostitutes to a handful of women. The incidence of drug use among prostitutes is overwhelming. In part that becomes a necessary means to dissociate while engaging in sex with average guys whom the prostitute would likely not have sex with otherwise. Likewise, some level of coercion is common in all prostitution. If market economics are considered, effectively all prostitution is coerced. Trying to restrict a discussion of prostitution to the tiny number of up-market escorts choosing to prostitute themselves is foolish at best but more probably disingenuous.

I have to wonder out loud whether you're trying to convince the readers that the prostitutes you use are making a free choice or whether you're trying to make yourself feel better by holding on to that claim.


...if the woman is a prostitute by choice?


The more honest question would be: How many women are prostitutes by choice? The few serious studies that have been done do not suggest there are many who enter prostitution by choice and there are even fewer that remain a significant length of time through their own volition.


When you are looking for work you are selling yourself to an employer. People sell themselves everyday in a myriad of ways.


Non-sense! By expanding the meaning of "selling yourself" to this extent, you effectively make it meaningless. When is the last time your employer asked you to give him a bj -- and mind the teeth? Seriously, "selling yourself" as a prostitute just cannot compare to "selling yourself" as floor sweeper.


If it were legal, there would be higher rates of STD's in the home, illegal drug use would also increase


Probably not.


Some people can separate sex from love, others can't.


Have you considered that this point applies to a lot of prostitutes and that is one of the reasons that drug use is common? Have you thought about the kind of person that can separate "sex from love"?


If what you want is sex, playing games and going out on dates in order to use someone for sex is not only unethical, it's stupid.


Of course, preying on a prostitute that has little or no choice in having sex with you is probably at least as unethical if not more so.


I think it's an even sadder and more pathetic state of affairs when the guy spends spends and spends and still doesn't get any.


Anyone facing such a situation ought to give serious thought to their relationship choices. The problem is YOU and only YOU can solve it. If you are not getting what you want out of a relationship you ought to be able to either exit it or change it before you feel like this.


How great would it feel at age 70 to look back and see that you have penetrated 100 different and unique vaginas??


I'm quoting this sentence because, with all the absurdity presented in this thread, this has to rank as the most absurd thing written here. I can only hope that the goal is not merely to have sex with each of those "vaginas" just once. Because if it is, that's a really, really, really, tiny number of times to be having sex in a lifetime (if we can count "age 70" to be a lifetime). Anyway, if you set your mind to it, you could probably accomplish that goal in 4 months -- tops. Of course, if you seriously are just thinking of penetration you might be able to do it in a day. Good luck with that.
 mthomjmark
Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 169
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:10:56 PM

How would relationships be different if prostitution was legal? This is not meant to be a debate about whether or not it should be legal (please don't talk about that here). I just want to get everyone's opinion on how the male/female dynamic would change.

Personally, I think that if prostitution were legal we might see women rely a lot less on withholding the promise of sex for their men in order to get what they want, since an unmarried man could easily get laid no matter what his condition.


I personally would NEVER go to a prostitute. Just not my thing. I dont have a problem personally with it being legal. Not a big issue I dont think.
 Barry1919
Joined: 11/21/2007
Msg: 170
What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/27/2008 3:47:27 PM
If a woman's not going to give her man sex then why not be able to go to a prostitute? Women hold off sex and give it as some sort of reward. What's the difference between a prostitute and an affair?? To me nothing. If a woman kept her man happy at home he wouldn't look elsewehre. Men straying is the womans fault.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 172
Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/28/2008 12:23:12 AM
The fact that you are here, of course, leads me to suspect you feel the inherent contradiction of your position more than you care to admit. Deep down you want a relationship. So what's the problem?


The problem is that you can't conceive of anyone who doesn't want what you want or the possibility that at any given time, one might have to choose between two mutually incompatible desires in order to eventually succeed at both. At this time, I do NOT want a relationship, deep down or otherwise. The only way I would get into one right now would be on my terms, period, which anyone ought to realize is NOT going to lead to great relationship. It's MY choice, not yours.

The most casual reader can deduce that by reading my profile. I will want a relationship at some time in the future but right now I have a business that requires the kind of specialized knowledge I spent years in graduate school to attain and I have no intention of throwing that away to accomodate a relationship. Yes, the common denominator is ME. I have a particular set of goals and I have limits on what I'm willing to let stand in the way of those. On the other hand, a lot of the posts I've read haven't suggested that this is the best place to look for a relationship.

Well, as has been said many times in many places, if you are failing at relationships, the common denominator is YOU.


As far as failed relationships go, I suppose you could say everyone that doesn't end in marriage is a failure, in which case, I've had a number of those, including several live ins. However, I've never had the ultimate failure of a divorce or left any children to pay for those ``failures.'' From where I stand, I've done a better job of figuring out what I really want than most. You don't even seem to comprehend the idea that to have a relationship the relationship can't be just about you.


From a male perspective, prostitutes are just a poor substitute for a mate.

And a mate is a poor substitue for a prostitute. I don't get your point.

Of course, humans have moved on somewhat and have sex for pleasure too. Again, prostitutes offer a rather poor substitute for that purpose.

The majority of men who visit prostitutes are married. It would seem at least those men choose the ``poor substitute'' in preferene to their mates. I'll skip the potentially lengthy digression regarding the obviously poor substitutes a spouse has been for a mate where those who have been divorced are concerned.
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LOL! Wrong! Men do only want one thing. But the source of that desire is in the urge to reproduce themselves. I know most sex isn't just about having babies but without our brain feeling that this need is being met by the sex being engaged, a we won't feel satisfied.


That has to be one of the most sexist and unenlightened remarks yet made. Let me see if I have this straight. A man who has sex with a prostitute will not feel satisfied because deep down he knows she won't bear his offspring. OK, a man who has sex with a woman who had a hystorectomy knows deep down she won't bear his offspring either. I suppose you could ague that the guy can look elsewhere and I'd rather let the women deal with that one. So, if a man has a vasectomy, does that mean he can't ever have a satisfying sexual relationship because deep down his brain knows he won't be making babies? You can't have it both ways. Since I haven't been snipped, I'll let those who have weigh in on that one. Who woulda thunk?



If you want to discuss prostitutes, you should stick to women who became prostitutes on purpose. Drug addicts... Sex slavery and prostitution are not the same...

Doing so would reduce the discussion of prostitutes to a handful of women.

That is a strawman. Your own personal beliefs are not synonymous with facts.

Of course, preying on a prostitute that has little or no choice in having sex with you is probably at least as unethical if not more so.

A strawman. Preying on anyone for any reason is unethical. But I never suggested that anyone do that and your attempt to portray me that way for lack of a real argument, is, well, unethical (apart from being fallacious reasoning.)


Anyone facing such a situation ought to give serious thought to their relationship choices. The problem is YOU and only YOU can solve it. If you are not getting what you want out of a relationship you ought to be able to either exit it or change it before you feel like this.


Uh, I thought that was the point. I've thought about it and I've concluded that if I don't want everything else that goes along with a relationship, I shouldn't seek one out just for the parts I do want. Women don't seem to like that (if the threads on this forum are any indication). I'd also rather not waste my time in bars and risk my health looking for women in bars. My time is worth something to me. What part of that isn't crystal clear?

Have you considered that this point applies to a lot of prostitutes and that is one of the reasons that drug use is common?

Another strawman. You're opinion about prostitution and drug abuse is not fact. Given data which show drug use is higher among prostitutes than the average person does not imply that prostitution causes the drug abuse. Anyone familiar with elementary statistics knows that correlation does not imply causation.
You've gone beyond that mistake however. You've added your own personal belief that prostitutes use drugs because they just can handle the sex. It probably never occurred to you that drug addicts often become prostitutes because it's quick money or that having a lifestyle that gives someone access to lots of cash is a reason they might use drugs. But, let's apply your theory to lawyers:

According to the Michigan Bar Association, lawyers are more likely to have problems with drug abuse than the average person, so does that mean the legal profession is so terrible that lawyers are driven to substance abuse and it's unethical to hire a lawyer?


Have you thought about the kind of person that can separate "sex from love"?


Yeah. I have and I concluded that the kind of people that can separate sex from love are the majority of people who post here. What, you say? Yes. How many threads have you read in which most people consider having sex to be less serious than using the ``L word?'' It seems that lots of people think using the ``L word'' inside of a few months into an exclusive relationship is rushing it. Sex, on the other hand is considered premature by most if done on the first date, but after that things get iffy and opinions diverge rapidly. Guys don't seem to have a big problem with sex early on and women don't either if they ``like someone enough'' (whatever that means.) Unless you think the majority of people say ``I love you'' before hopping into the sack, you couldn't conclude otherwise.

Thank you for bringing that up. I didn't get to all of the hypocrisies.


I have to wonder out loud whether you're trying to convince the readers that the prostitutes you use are making a free choice or whether you're trying to make yourself feel better by holding on to that claim.

You'll have to keep wondering since you are determined to put words in my mouth regardless of what I say.



The only ones who make decent money are the ones who treat exactly like any other job by getting up and going to work everyday.

But it isn't "exactly like any other job" and that was my point -- which you obviously missed.


By the same token, neither is underwater welding or any other job ``exactly like any other job,'' so you've stated a tautology that applies to any job, not an argument.

Seriously, "selling yourself" as a prostitute just cannot compare to "selling yourself" as floor sweeper.

Only because you equivocate ``selling yourself'' with prostitution. I'm not going to play semantics games here, so if you want to use the term ``selling yourself,'' make it clear whether you mean in the literal sense of being paid to do work you wouldn't do for free or selling out one's ethics for money or whatever you would like it to mean so that the meaning remains constant and I know what it is.

The more honest question would be: How many women are prostitutes by choice?


Define ``by choice.'' Does a prostitute who looks at her options for employment and decides that the job which best fits her expenses and time constraints is to be a prostitute, choosing? If so, then I can safely say, everyone I've met, although I'm sure there are those forced into it. A woman in New York was just sentenced to prison for keeping her houskeepers in slavery under wretched conditions. Does that mean hiring a housekeeper is unethical?

Look, if you're going to argue against something I've written, try creating an argument which doesn't begin with your personal assumptions about what I want, my motivations, and the way you think the world works.
I'm not you and though you might find this hard to understand, but I find your views regarding a person needing to know the possibility for procreation exists in order to be sexually satisfied to be bizarre, to say the least. I've spent my life getting out from under the kinds of preconceptions you seem to see as invariant truths, so it's highly unlikely that you can assume anything about the way I think and be correct.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 173
Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/28/2008 12:58:57 AM

It never ceases to amaze me that there are such whiners in this world.


Me too. You'll never hear me whining about anything (except perhaps fallacious logic.)


Men singing the praises of prostitution come across as offensively as women that loudly pronounce their independence from men. It really is true that our society is choked full of lonely people of both genders. A place like this and a thread like this just makes it obvious.

I'm not singing the praises of anything. I'm pointing out the alternatives to not getting into a relationship for those people who really don't want a relationship. There would be a lot LESS whining if people were honest with themselves about what they wanted, made a realistic assessment of what they were willing to do get it and then acted accordingly.

Anyway, if you can't get dates with any decent women, that's your problem.


Trying to address this would only lead to a pissing contest, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Elliot Spitzer was paying thousands of dollars to prostitutes because he couldn't find a women to have sex with him for free. Apparently, there are more factors to consider than just the old standbys. Anyone who can pay upwards of $1500.00 for a night with an escort is going to be able to get a date and $1500.00 is not anywhere near the high end.


Solve it. Or, accept the fact that you are a loser in the game of relationships. You might be able to fool yourself into believing that prostitutes are just as good but, somehow, the determined prostestations here seem a bit too much -- if you know what I mean.


You seem to be missing the big picture here. The point is not whether or not prostitutes are a better or worse choice than a relationship. The point is that either one is not a substitute for the other. Most people simply never consider the possibility that what they want isn't a relationship and a relationship is not a substitute for what they want. And no, I don't know what you mean. I'm not going to buy into being labled as an advocate for anything just because I can see a rationale for it. I can see a rationale for owning a gun and I would defend someone's right to own one, but I don't own one or have a desire to own one.
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