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 sherilyn70
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 57
Dating and BankruptcyPage 2 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
Wrong. They go right back living beyond their means as soon as new credit is granted!! Trust me, I have seen some prime examples of this!

Yes, this why I have a house that I bought for 20% under market value at a prime interest rate and have zero credit card debt (even though I have multiple cards issued to me). I clearly went right back to living beyond my means (which wasn't beyond my means while I was married by the way). Are you really suggesting that people in a relationship plan for the inevitable divorce and never share a life together? We should have the "just in case we decide to divorce" fund? We should never buy joint items together with our income or live in the same house together? I'd have to guess you've never actually had to deal with suddenly having two rents to pay out of the same money pot and needing to turn everything you had into duplicates.

Now I agree with you that if you realize a paycut you have to adjust your living expenses, and in my case now that might include selling my house or taking on a roommate or two. But back when I used to make minimum wage there was no saving up for a rainy day. Many people do live paycheck to paycheck simply because there is no other option for them unless they choose to live on the street and beg for their food.


The bankruptcy laws changed a few years ago due, in part, to abuse. I don't think you can eradicate debt with Chap 7 like you used to be able to.

The laws made it so that certain types of debt were exempt for the filing. You can no longer default on school loans. Lawyers and doctors were abusing it by going to school, getting their good jobs and then filing to remove their hefty college bill. They made enough money to not care that their credit was destroyed for a few years.
 Dancing_4_You
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 61
view profile
History
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:26:19 AM
my ex came to me with a post bankruptcy situation but working. as the marriage proceded, he quit good jobs and always with some bizarre notion of becoming richer, as we became poorer. i wonder now if this was his way of dealing with anticipating being fired. i worked hard at getting us into a good financial picture. i had to stop working, but thank G-d i had paid dearly for private disability when i was working in my own business. i often had to support us in between his "schemes". we divorced "both" in good financial standing and now he is almost bankrupt again.

i would carefully scrutinize "why" someone is in their financial position. some truly are there for health reasons and due to prior marital situations. there are down economic times, but that is how you learn to deal with future issues and not repeat the same mistakes. however, many are spendthrifts and poor planners and irresponsible. also in the past, many took advantage of bankruptcy procedures--including our " good friend" donald trump (yik), who took many people down in nj when his "company" went bankrupt. he walked away scott free with the assets in his other "companies". this type of situation is not only horrific, but totally justifiable for those who entered into good faith business contracts and got totally screwed (aka bankrupted).

so, it really depends on the situation and it takes time to really know people and their "relationship" with money.
 sherilyn70
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 62
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 3:22:32 AM

Huhh? This logic makes no sense what so ever! If you get divorced, then you sell the house and split the proceeds. A divorce is no different from a pay cut. You have to adjust your living standard to your new circumstance. I completely fail to see how a divorce can cause bankrupcy unless you are trying to tell me that the littigation expense would burry you in a pile of debt. And frankly, if your can't afford littigation as a couple, then you simply just have to play nice with each other during divorce and minimize attorney involvement. Once again, its about personal accountability and a realization of what one can and can not do! What one can and can not afford!! Credit is not free money. It must be paid back. Ohh if you only knew how many people fail to undertsand that when they compare with the Johnses. Becasue that is truly where the real problem lies isn't it!!

Not everyone owns a house... so what is there to sell? What if they just bought the house as well? There may not be any equity yet in the house. What do you plan to do in that 6 months (average market right now) to sell your home? At 24 most people do not usually own homes yet.

It takes less than 6 months to fall to the point of bankruptcy, I know... I've been there. I went from great credit to no credit within months because I also unexpectedly lost my job in the middle of everything. I had very little in terms of credit cards or loans racked up, I just simply couldn't afford to live on my own in the apartment we had shared. We didn't have attorney's fees to pay, we actually didn't divorce for another 3 years after the split up because we didn't have the money.

Apparently you never had a job at minimum wage when you were younger? Be thankful that you never lived from paycheck to paycheck yourself when you were younger I guess, it isn't fun. Be sure to thank your parents for making sure you had everything you needed unlike the majority of America who gets out there and does it the hard way. My parents didn't help pay for me to go to college and kicked me out of the house at 18, I didn't have the luxury of increasing my income potential or time to save up money before I left the house.

Happy, have you ever actually lived with anyone before? It's not as simple as you make it sound when you split up. I have very peaceful break up with both of my exs but it still cost me a lot of money to do it. With my most recent ex I paid his rent ($610) for an additional year and had to replace over $3,000 in household items quickly. We didn't own a house together either. The average household income according to the US Census Bureau is $48,201.00 and we were a little bit above that with me being the bread winner. We never thought about the "how will he afford this if I leave him?" until the day it happened. He ended up having to move back home with his mother because he couldn't afford living on his own like I had the luxury of doing that time.
 texastigress
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 64
view profile
History
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 4:17:23 AM
Absolutely! I met a gentleman a couple of months ago who happened to mention during the time that we were having a drink that he filed for bankruptcy due to his divorce. For some reason he felt compelled to tell me this after I told him that I worked for the IRS. Go figure. Needless to say, a red flag shot up and I had no desire to see him again.
 ptice69
Joined: 8/3/2007
Msg: 65
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 4:35:43 AM
I am currently dating and just filed myself. The reason I filed was because the husband I was with for the last 11 years cost me alot. After a domestic altercation and alot of medical bills, I had no choice. I know I should have been more responsible with money, but he didn't want to work and used threats to keep it going. As far as dating and bankruptcy, at least I don't expect the next person to carry me through life. I am finally able to do it on my own. Most of those credit card bills were for food, hospital, doctors and medications. So, CONGRATS on the person for being upfront about the problems. At least the partner knows what they could be getting into and that gives them the chance to decide. Before you decide what to do, look at the reasons why bankruptcy was filed and go from there.
 roach808
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 67
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 9:32:48 AM
I've done this and am not opposed to it provided that they're really responsible about their spending choices and conscious of their past. It could present some issues for a long-term relationship, but it wouldn't automatically turn me off to them.
 sherilyn70
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 68
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 9:57:53 AM

I did not grow up wealthy, I worked minimum wage jobs in my youth and I always had to pay my own way! The big difference is that I stayed home studying while others were partying. I completed my bachelors and MBA while working to to minimize student debt. I made some massive sacrifices to get where I am today, sacrifices that few are willing to make.

I'm just curious... how did you pay for your college? Financial aid requires that your parents sign forms and submit data (or at least it did back in the late 80s) and my parents refused to do that. Did you work full time while going to college? Where did you live when you were going to college? You didn't actually say you had to pay rent, lol.

Did you miss the part that I filed myself 14 years ago? The only debt I have now is for a car and my mortgage.

You didn't answer the question though about have you ever actually lived with someone and shared expenses. If you'd ever done that I think you would realize just how much extra money is expended when you split a house in two unexpectedly.
 justwant2no
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 70
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 11:21:16 AM
In the 14 years I was married, my ex was unemployed (or 'self' employed) off and on for probably half of that time. . . he wracked up over $72K in debt which I had to sign off on and pay back! But I would not hold a bankruptcy against someone I cared about. There can be limitless extenuating circumstances. That being said - I would never co-mingle my finances again (even if they had excellent credit), but that's just me.
 oneofmany
Joined: 9/22/2004
Msg: 71
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 11:43:02 AM
What a commie... sounds like you like you life handed to you Zippy who need hard work or self achievement when your on the dole right zippy. stupid pommie.
as for the op. My x destroyed my finances. still trying to work them out. Hey at least the guy is trying to do something about his debt. Like mike said maybe he had no choice.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 73
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:13:19 PM
If I'm just seeing someone socially, not really "involved" then their finances are NOMB. When it comes to a more involved relationship, being there for one another,then I would want us to be reasonably on the same financial level( and yes that includes UPward, I just don't see myself being comfortable with a guy who has a way higher income than I do), but I wouldn't say bankruptcy was an automatic dealbreaker provided it was due to something out of his control. I would look more at how he was HANDLING it. If he's doing his best to move forward, to learn from the experience and rebuild,that's all good. If he behaves negatively, whines, blames, or is looking for a sugar momma, then I want no part of it.
Cindy O
 Calray
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 74
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:25:34 PM
Actually Gillmore, the more you respond the more you reveal that things have come together so well for you less because of your responsible actions, and more because of your good fortune. You've been very blessed as there have been many opportunities afforded you that aren't within the average person's grasp.


As I said in my prevous post, I worked during college. I also had academic schoolarships!


Sure you worked, but those academic scholarships meant you had to work less than the average B-C student who has to pay full price. Now I'm sure you worked hard to earn the grades that got those scholarships, but there are many who with all the work in the world still wouldn't be able to get those scholarships. Which makes you fortunate.

In the dorms where I was an RA so its being paid for by the university!

More accurately it was paid for by the students who had to pay full price for room and board that you were "advising". Of course since only a small fraction of students can be RA's I guess that makes you very fortunate.

I dont know what state you were in but here it didn't.

I don't know how you managed it, but unless you were over the age of 24, or married, it should have been a federal requirement that you list both of your parents income as a resource to meet your expected family contribution. That is unless you didn't need financial aid.

I'm not going to discount your hard work for getting to where you are. Congratulations, I'm happy for you. But I think you're being unreasonably harsh on a lot of people who really had no way of avoiding a bad situation. The statistics are clear. Most bankruptcies are gennerally associated with devastating illness (more than half) and unexpected job loss (just under half). Sometimes both. In these instances, savings accountss dwindle, houses don't sell, and finally bankruptcy is itable. These people deserve the opportunity to do what they can to recover without judgement from you simply because you want to remain on your high horse.


Did you miss the part that I filed myself 14 years ago?

If it was 14 years ago and all is well now you shouldn't really need to feel any obligation to tell anyone. It's no one else's business. Not even a future SO.
 swingpup
Joined: 10/21/2006
Msg: 77
view profile
History
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:07:38 PM
I have met per my involvement in the legal profession a large number of individuals that have filed for BK. Situations that I become involved with are situations where personal funding were placed into businesses as well as business ventures via personal credit cards, signature loans, second mortgages, personal savings etc.

Some have been 500k to well into the millions upside down. To have the "balls" to do this as a sole proprietor or even as a partnership is something that I have always admired. Not that I would desire to be in a situation such as that, it of course does occur on a common basis.

Therefore to go upside down and file a BK in the above type of situations would not be a problem. Cut the loss to the bone, file and take a deep breath.

I have in fact dated a woman that was in this situation. Currently she holds a six figure income position as simply an upper level management employee for a large corporation. She can now sleep at night. It's been 2 years past her ordeal. There certainly is life after a BK, provided there is drive, desire as well as ambition.

As one well known entrepreneur once stated "If you don't file bankruptcy by the time you're 40 you're not taking enough risk."
 AdrianEsquire
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 78
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:12:08 PM
zippythehippy -- I don't envy you at all, bubb.
 AdrianEsquire
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 79
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:15:36 PM
No, it would not. There are many reasons to file bankruptcy, and it protects against living with debts that are impossible to pay back. Some people are just unlucky. It happens.
 Bikeman_
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 80
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:24:20 PM
This is analagous to asking someone who plays Texas Hold Em:
Q: You are dealt A-8 off suit. How do you play it?
A: It depends.

There's no one right answer here. Sure you might not want to date someone in debt and/or bankrupt. To me someone's lack of financial solvency isn't necessarily a relationship dealbreaker. Perhaps some or all of the reasons why someone isn't solvent would actually the dealbreakers (spendthrift, poor judgment, lack of responsibility, clueless, extravagant, inability to solve personal issues, etc).
 HereN916
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 82
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:42:11 PM
Omg I cannot believe some of the responses. Not everyone that has filed bankruptcy is trying to get a free ride, stiff someone else, or is just irresponsible when it comes to managing their finances.

That is about as valid as saying all homeless people are drug addicts.

I can't believe how quickly we jump and pass judgment.
 AdrianEsquire
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 87
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:36:09 PM
psssst -- You are quite mad. All sorts of people from all walks of life end up having to file bankruptcy, through no fault of their own. That's why the laws exist. Try getting behind on a credit card bill that's running 26% interest. If you can't pay it off, you suffocate.
 AdrianEsquire
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 92
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:53:15 PM
psssst -- "If you incur a debt which you are incapable of paying, then you are irresponsible and not a person with whom I'd be interested in dating.

Just like you have the choice of applying for that exorbitant credit card, I have the choice of avoiding people who use them.

Isn't the freedom of choice grand?"

That's not true. You're quite mad. You can incur a debt that you are incapable of paying through no fault of your own. It does not mean you are irresponsible. That's why bankruptcy laws exist.

You are extremely naïve.

The credit card companies are vicious greedy bastards who penalize the poor sap who gets behind with higher rates and penalty amounts that add up and up and up. These measures are intended to force you to declare bankruptcy. They are insured against such losses, and if you declare bankruptcy they are actually better off than if you don't.

Declaring bankruptcy can be a very responsible act, in fact it is, otherwise you may never get out of debt and you might end up paying out a very large proportion of your income indefinitely.

That's why the laws exist.

psssst: You're just ill-informed and vile.
 sherilyn70
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 96
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 3:05:00 PM

I have a friend who sold his car to pay off debts rather than declare bankruptcy. Why not get a 2nd mortgage to pay off your debts or get consolidation loan instead? Or as I said earlier sell your car or just live withing your budget

How can you get a second mortgage if you don't own a house already? Or if the house has no equity? How can you get a second mortgage or a consolidation loan if you have no job because you lost yours? How can you sell a car that has no value higher than the loan payoff? I was only 24 when I filed and I was about to get evicted and all of my utilities turned off. I had no medical insurance and was eating saltine crackers that I'd snagged from going inside Wendy's too keep from getting hungry at night.

I find it amusing that you get upset that women won't date you because you don't have a car and drive (god knows you whine about it constantly) yet you're willing to exclude someone that fell into a bad moment financially with no questions asked. You have no room to complain the next time a woman turns you down because you don't have drive.
 sherilyn70
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 97
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 3:06:24 PM

You tout me as being mad yet you claim that welching on a debt is good for the credit card companies?

Actually it is to some degree. They can use it as a tax write off. If you don't file bankruptcy they can't write off for much longer because they have to try and collect.
 sherilyn70
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 101
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 3:40:04 PM

I'm one of the luckier ones in life where i had a good financial mentor, I have 2 credit cards ( visa and master card , no department store cards)with next to nothing balances, I don't carry a balance they're paid every month, just to maintain my high FICO score and own my own place not the bank, im doing well enough in life, but if I had followed the herd, I would be in debt, scrambling, bit ching about the government, taxes, inflation, credit card companies and so on and so on.

I've always been the same way myself. I had top notch credit until right before I filed. I didn't use my credit cards to buy nice things. I did however end up running up my cards by trying to keep from filing for bankruptcy, I used them for gas, job hunting, food, utilities... and in the end I failed to keep from filing. Ironically I was a mortgage loan processor at the time I had to file. I knew all about credit and how to keep my scores high . The bottom fell out on mortgages back in 94 when interest rates started raising and people stopped buying. My paychecks started bouncing and eventually I found myself jobless.

I have never been in the habit of using credit to buy things like vacations or toys unless they offered me 18 months same as cash. I bought my appliances that way and did get them paid off before the time was up and currently my TV is on that plan as well. My only other debts are my mortgage and car.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 106
view profile
History
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 5:01:46 PM

If you are on welfare, you don't pay for bread, milk, cheese, fruit and veg, honey, housing, cars, road tax and insurance, mortgages, life insurance, solicitors (pro bono), musical instruments, sex with a professional (who is registered with the national street walkers union), heating and children and all local attractions.

Have fun in America. It's not so independent now is it!


Actually, you have just demonstrated that we are independent. Free to choose to spend our money on health care or not. If health care is paid out of our taxes, then they would have to be raised much much higher percentage - as they are higher in socialized medicine countries. We would lose much of our freedom of choice about how and who and when our medical care is done. Governments choice of health care would be imposed on us. There is the loss of independence.

Now, I am not saying that is a bad thing. Personally, I don't think medicine should be "for profit" I'm all for good wages for the workers and researchers ... just not for corporate profit.

Gandi
 alwaysme2
Joined: 5/2/2007
Msg: 108
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 5:15:36 PM
Wow, these replies amaze me.


Some of them amaze me to.

Obviously there is difference betwee the US and Canada when it comes to what is covered by the government and what isn't. It is also obvious that for some debt is a deal breaker. To each his own.


All your statements have merit and except the "natural disaster" and "downsizing statements". For them to hold true, that means that the person in question was underinsured in the first case and lived at their means in the second case (meaning no rainy day funds or alternative savings). Remember, you can tap 401k's or IRA's during times of economic hardship. You can sell your house (assuming you haven't tapped the equity to go on that trip or buy that car etc).


80 percent of my family lives in Mississippi and New Orleans. My family luckly had insurance but it still didn't pay all of the costs from the storm. Even the insured had to pay a ton of money... for people like my Aunt who lives on Social Security and wasn't able to put alot away for retirment that was a hard blow to her savings.

Many people just couldn't afford flood insurance. Do you know exactly how much flood insurance costs in certain regions? Even if it doesn't sound like alot to people who make good money it was expensive to the blue collar worker. I am not just talking about low income people either but a lot of people just couldn't afford it and dropped that first in order to pay other bills like their morgage and utilities. Not to mention putting food on the table and paying for gasoline to get to work everyday.

And not everone has 401k's or IRA's and how do you sell a house that has been hit by a natural diaster to get the equity. I don't think my cousin could have sold his house considering half of it was sitting two blocks away.

I went there for my Aunts funeral a month after Katrina hit. It was a nighmare and if anyone wants to see pictures of the destruction I will gladly send you some. They were stuck with having to relocate, find new jobs and STILL pay a mortage for a house that was no longer even standing on the foundation in some cases . In that case, I think I would be a little understanding of the circumstances and maybe even date that person if they filed bankrupcty...God for bid!

Like I said, to each his own, people have preferences of what they will look for in a relationship and for some debt is unthinkable. That's the way it is. Date someone who shares your believes and has the same ideals.

For me I couldn't date anyone who at least could not take certain circumstances like medical bills, ex spouses debt you got stuck with, or natural disasters into consideration. Not because I have ever filed but just because I like a person who has a little empathy when it comes to life. There is debt that is caused by financial studity and some that is caused by circumstances that are not their fault. That is my opinion at least...but everyone is entitled to an opinion and what they are looking for...nothing wrong with it.

After reading all of this though, I think some people honestly walk around with the attitude "That could never happen to me!" and those are the ones I feel sorry for. You never know what life will bring you. Or they don't live in a country where they could understand how one surgery (for you or your children) without health care insurance could put you over the top for many many years.

And for the person who posted about life insurance, disablitity insurance etc. etc. Not all companies provide that or even pay for any portion of it...especially if you work part time. Guess maybe that is paid for or at least affordable in Canada too...you should feel lucky if it is.

Again, when having to make a choice as to whether they should keep their electric running, food on the table, or paying for gasoline to get to work..they will choose that over "extra" insurance even though it isn't a wise choice.

I worked on an ambulance for years. Do you know how many times a week I would hear "I can't believe this happened to me!" That is why it's called an accident and you don't usually plan in advance for them to happen....and sometimes you don't expect your ex to be a financial nighmare either lol.

Either way, I think there are some cases I would take into consideration.
 alwaysme2
Joined: 5/2/2007
Msg: 118
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 5:57:32 PM
I agree with you wholeheartedly that one must look at the individual and not just the act.


Thanks TB...I'm glad someone got my long winded post

I have writers cramp now!


think what this guy was saying is you just don't run away from someone because they are having a little trouble.


I thought the same thing...maybe I understood it wrong?
 sherilyn70
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 119
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 7:19:07 PM
5 cases where bankruptcy either happened or will happen. Now is there a common denominator here? What triats are the common denominators here?

I hate to say it... but the common denominator is you. I could give you 5 cases that weren't based on greed and high income people. Maybe you need friends with better ethics and that are less materialistic?

I don't have a single friend that owns a fancy car like yours do. I own the best car out of everyone I know and all I have is a 2007 Chevy Impala.
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