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 justwant2no
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 76
Dating and BankruptcyPage 4 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
In the 14 years I was married, my ex was unemployed (or 'self' employed) off and on for probably half of that time. . . he wracked up over $72K in debt which I had to sign off on and pay back! But I would not hold a bankruptcy against someone I cared about. There can be limitless extenuating circumstances. That being said - I would never co-mingle my finances again (even if they had excellent credit), but that's just me.
 oneofmany
Joined: 9/22/2004
Msg: 77
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 11:43:02 AM
What a commie... sounds like you like you life handed to you Zippy who need hard work or self achievement when your on the dole right zippy. stupid pommie.
as for the op. My x destroyed my finances. still trying to work them out. Hey at least the guy is trying to do something about his debt. Like mike said maybe he had no choice.
 shari1968
Joined: 3/3/2008
Msg: 78
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 11:48:38 AM
Not weird- it's legitimate. And yes it can make a difference- it would really depend on the reason and the type- AND what the guy is doing now to make things different. I have dated a couple guys who are hard workers and great guys, but after divorces left them paying high child support and with high debt they just couldn't make it without filing. Would I date either of these guys again- most certainly.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 79
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:13:19 PM
If I'm just seeing someone socially, not really "involved" then their finances are NOMB. When it comes to a more involved relationship, being there for one another,then I would want us to be reasonably on the same financial level( and yes that includes UPward, I just don't see myself being comfortable with a guy who has a way higher income than I do), but I wouldn't say bankruptcy was an automatic dealbreaker provided it was due to something out of his control. I would look more at how he was HANDLING it. If he's doing his best to move forward, to learn from the experience and rebuild,that's all good. If he behaves negatively, whines, blames, or is looking for a sugar momma, then I want no part of it.
Cindy O
 Calray
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 80
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:25:34 PM
Actually Gillmore, the more you respond the more you reveal that things have come together so well for you less because of your responsible actions, and more because of your good fortune. You've been very blessed as there have been many opportunities afforded you that aren't within the average person's grasp.


As I said in my prevous post, I worked during college. I also had academic schoolarships!


Sure you worked, but those academic scholarships meant you had to work less than the average B-C student who has to pay full price. Now I'm sure you worked hard to earn the grades that got those scholarships, but there are many who with all the work in the world still wouldn't be able to get those scholarships. Which makes you fortunate.

In the dorms where I was an RA so its being paid for by the university!

More accurately it was paid for by the students who had to pay full price for room and board that you were "advising". Of course since only a small fraction of students can be RA's I guess that makes you very fortunate.

I dont know what state you were in but here it didn't.

I don't know how you managed it, but unless you were over the age of 24, or married, it should have been a federal requirement that you list both of your parents income as a resource to meet your expected family contribution. That is unless you didn't need financial aid.

I'm not going to discount your hard work for getting to where you are. Congratulations, I'm happy for you. But I think you're being unreasonably harsh on a lot of people who really had no way of avoiding a bad situation. The statistics are clear. Most bankruptcies are gennerally associated with devastating illness (more than half) and unexpected job loss (just under half). Sometimes both. In these instances, savings accountss dwindle, houses don't sell, and finally bankruptcy is itable. These people deserve the opportunity to do what they can to recover without judgement from you simply because you want to remain on your high horse.


Did you miss the part that I filed myself 14 years ago?

If it was 14 years ago and all is well now you shouldn't really need to feel any obligation to tell anyone. It's no one else's business. Not even a future SO.
 Medina49
Joined: 12/17/2007
Msg: 81
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 12:48:21 PM
it tells me that they're not very financially responsible


fairly broad brush we're painting with eh?

Chap 13 is quite a bit different than chap 7.

Kind of like that fat (yes, I said fat, not thick) person who lost a fair amount of weight. Now the guys are fawning over her, yes the same ones that were pricks.
A vicious spouse can force someone into bankruptcy. Many states the law is if one spouse buries them both financially, that one can declare bankruptcy and walk away! Leaving the burden of debt on the dumb trusting spouse left behind. What was stellar credit only one year ago is now piss poor is different story than one who racked up thousands and thousands on unsecured debt. Divorce can ruin some, make some stronger.
I'd be more interested in taking someone in those situations case by case vs. lumping them all into the same bucket.
 perfectredsky2008
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 82
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:05:40 PM
Yes, it would change my mind. I work hard at making sure my bills are paid and that I live within my means. I want an equal - I don't want another child to teach. Please don't anyone take offense, it's my opinion and how I feel.
 swingpup
Joined: 10/21/2006
Msg: 83
view profile
History
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:07:38 PM
I have met per my involvement in the legal profession a large number of individuals that have filed for BK. Situations that I become involved with are situations where personal funding were placed into businesses as well as business ventures via personal credit cards, signature loans, second mortgages, personal savings etc.

Some have been 500k to well into the millions upside down. To have the "balls" to do this as a sole proprietor or even as a partnership is something that I have always admired. Not that I would desire to be in a situation such as that, it of course does occur on a common basis.

Therefore to go upside down and file a BK in the above type of situations would not be a problem. Cut the loss to the bone, file and take a deep breath.

I have in fact dated a woman that was in this situation. Currently she holds a six figure income position as simply an upper level management employee for a large corporation. She can now sleep at night. It's been 2 years past her ordeal. There certainly is life after a BK, provided there is drive, desire as well as ambition.

As one well known entrepreneur once stated "If you don't file bankruptcy by the time you're 40 you're not taking enough risk."
 AdrianEsquire
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 84
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:12:08 PM
zippythehippy -- I don't envy you at all, bubb.
 AdrianEsquire
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 85
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:15:36 PM
No, it would not. There are many reasons to file bankruptcy, and it protects against living with debts that are impossible to pay back. Some people are just unlucky. It happens.
 Bikeman_
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 86
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:24:20 PM
This is analagous to asking someone who plays Texas Hold Em:
Q: You are dealt A-8 off suit. How do you play it?
A: It depends.

There's no one right answer here. Sure you might not want to date someone in debt and/or bankrupt. To me someone's lack of financial solvency isn't necessarily a relationship dealbreaker. Perhaps some or all of the reasons why someone isn't solvent would actually the dealbreakers (spendthrift, poor judgment, lack of responsibility, clueless, extravagant, inability to solve personal issues, etc).
 rjb888
Joined: 4/4/2007
Msg: 87
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:33:20 PM
Yes we are all entitled to our opinions and what it is we want in life. But sometimes life has a way of throwing a huge shit pie in your face.

I live in Michigan highest unemployment rate in the US, 3rd in forclosure. Due to mostly job loss. Can we say the BIG THREE and their suppliers. What a domino effect it has. I know a few people that had NO choice but to file trying to save their homes. And most of them have lost their homes anyways. These were hard working families, owned their homes 15 years or more. They have NEVER asked for a thing from anyone, now they have nothing.

While higher education is great, what we all want for our children it still does not give finanicial security. How many wealthy people have filed? Tons yet for some reason they aren't looked down on as the "everyday" man or women that has to file. The auto mechanic, grocery store clerk, production line worker, day care employee, these people wanted the american dream also. Most people do not want to file bankruptcy, they want to pay their bills. They feel ashamed, less than having no other choice.

My neighbor who is in this situation said to me," I'm worth more dead to my family than alive." I was shocked, I went home and cried.

So while in the past I would have said NO WAY I wouldn't date someone that filed bankruptcy, now I would take a second look at the person to find out why before I would cut them loose.
 HereN916
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 88
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:42:11 PM
Omg I cannot believe some of the responses. Not everyone that has filed bankruptcy is trying to get a free ride, stiff someone else, or is just irresponsible when it comes to managing their finances.

That is about as valid as saying all homeless people are drug addicts.

I can't believe how quickly we jump and pass judgment.
 psssst
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 89
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:54:50 PM

Ok, so someone who is in financial trouble, doesn't have a heart?
It's not the lack of a heart that's being discussed...

It's the lack of a brain...
 outofthedesert
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 90
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:01:17 PM

I work hard and am responsible with my money.



It's the lack of a brain...


Tell that to people who were responsible with their money and had to deal with a spouse that wasn't. Tell that to the person who was responsible with their money and their company closed, they lost insurance and had tons of medical bills to occur. Tell that to the person who was responsible with their money and the major breadwinner suddenly became disabled.

Bet they wish they too were perfect.
 ~transparent~butterfly
Joined: 5/12/2007
Msg: 91
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:23:16 PM
Regarding message 72
Just wanted to clarify ~


The laws made it so that certain types of debt were exempt for the filing. You can no longer default on school loans.


You could never "default" on government funded student loans. They were and are considered a non-dischargeable debt, just like taxes. However, the penalties are dischargeable, thereby reducing the amount owed on the loans.

There are many reasons for a person to file bankruptcy. Not all are good reasons, but the laws allow it under certain circumstances. With the changes in the bankruptcy laws, it is now harder to file a Chapter 7 than it was in the past.

~tb~
 psssst
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 92
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:32:53 PM

ok, then so things that come up unexpected and ex's that ruin your credit,
causes brain damage.

Interesting...
Poor choice in trusting someone too much ~ not my issue to deal with.


Tell that to people who were responsible with their money and had to deal with a spouse that wasn't.
See above response.


Tell that to the person who was responsible with their money and their company closed, they lost insurance and had tons of medical bills to occur.
I'll once again play the Canada card on this one...


Tell that to the person who was responsible with their money and the major breadwinner suddenly became disabled.
I carry disability insurance, life insurance, property insurance for accident and damage ~ doesn't everyone?


Bet they wish they too were perfect.
Not perfect... I simply practise common-sense and would not wish to become involved with someone who doesn't.

Cheers...
 AdrianEsquire
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 93
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:36:09 PM
psssst -- You are quite mad. All sorts of people from all walks of life end up having to file bankruptcy, through no fault of their own. That's why the laws exist. Try getting behind on a credit card bill that's running 26% interest. If you can't pay it off, you suffocate.
 psssst
Joined: 6/4/2007
Msg: 94
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:39:49 PM
psssst -- You are quite mad. All sorts of people from all walks of life end up having to file bankruptcy, through no fault of their own. That's why the laws exist. Try getting behind on a credit card bill that's running 26% interest. If you can't pay it off, you suffocate.
If you incur a debt which you are incapable of paying, then you are irresponsible and not a person with whom I'd be interested in dating.

Just like you have the choice of applying for that exorbitant credit card, I have the choice of avoiding people who use them.

Isn't the freedom of choice grand?
 HappyGilmore2
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 95
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:45:47 PM

Which makes you fortunate.

Calray. The more I work, the more fortunate I got! And that is a universal truth! But in your eyes, it appears that I was plain old lucky. Was I just as fortunate when I could not go out with my friends since I had to stay in Saturday nights to study to keep my schoolarship? Was I fortunate when I applied to that RA job and got it since no one else applied?

But I think you're being unreasonably harsh on a lot of people who really had no way of avoiding a bad situation.

There is an interesting phenomenon happening when people go from nothing to something through hard work. They become very unempathetic towards financial mismanagement and people failing to take personal accountabity. I'm in the financial field and can with 100% accuracy tell you that 80% of the bankrupcies could have been avoided with basic financial responsibility. Hence, I know that the bulk of the responses in this thread are selective at best and does not reflect reality! Instead what you see here is the classical "I am a victim" of circumstances defense. Which in turn is an admission on the behalf of the writers that they have not accepted personal responsibility. And you buy those stories hook line and sinker!!!

I've seen reality and it is nothing like what is being described here in this thread! If the entire story were communicated correctly, then the "victim" defense would loose credibility in a hurry!
 HappyGilmore2
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 96
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:51:25 PM

Not perfect... I simply practise common-sense and would not wish to become involved with someone who doesn't.

Well there it is folks. The real answer that we are all scurting around or try to sugarcoat!
 outofthedesert
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 97
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:51:41 PM

If your spouse is a spend threft...you should have got to know that before you married them


Not every flaw if evident before marriage..................if they were--------voila', no bad marriages leading to divorce.


I have disability insurance, doesn't everyone?
Not everyone can qualify.

Life is so easy to armchair quarterback.
 AdrianEsquire
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 98
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:53:15 PM
psssst -- "If you incur a debt which you are incapable of paying, then you are irresponsible and not a person with whom I'd be interested in dating.

Just like you have the choice of applying for that exorbitant credit card, I have the choice of avoiding people who use them.

Isn't the freedom of choice grand?"

That's not true. You're quite mad. You can incur a debt that you are incapable of paying through no fault of your own. It does not mean you are irresponsible. That's why bankruptcy laws exist.

You are extremely naïve.

The credit card companies are vicious greedy bastards who penalize the poor sap who gets behind with higher rates and penalty amounts that add up and up and up. These measures are intended to force you to declare bankruptcy. They are insured against such losses, and if you declare bankruptcy they are actually better off than if you don't.

Declaring bankruptcy can be a very responsible act, in fact it is, otherwise you may never get out of debt and you might end up paying out a very large proportion of your income indefinitely.

That's why the laws exist.

psssst: You're just ill-informed and vile.
 plumpassion
Joined: 1/20/2008
Msg: 99
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:57:55 PM
I dont think I would be able to date someone that is so finanically irresponsible. If they cant be responsible with money what else are the not responsible with?
 ~transparent~butterfly
Joined: 5/12/2007
Msg: 100
Dating and Bankruptcy
Posted: 3/18/2008 3:01:03 PM
psssst,

While I agree with your thoughts, which work in theory, I think you are overlooking a few issues.

In my many years in the legal field I have prepared countless bankruptcy petitions for individuals. I have seen people who simply had poor money management skills file.

I have also seen individuals who were involved in an auto accident with an uninsured motorist file because they were seriously injured and even after the health insurance paid their share of the medical bills, the remaining 20% was overwhelming and even the uninsured motorist insurance was not enough to cover the expenses and lost wages.

I have seen individuals who lost their home and job in one simple natural disaster file bankruptcy, because even though the house was gone, the creditor still wanted paid and the insurance would only pay so much for the home, leaving the individual with a large balance to be paid, no home, no job and a plate full of bills.

I have seen young folks with no health insurance have to file because of a medical emergency.

I have seen parents have to file bankruptcy because their child had a serious illness which the health insurance would not pay for and the medical bills were astronomical.

I have seen elderly individuals have to file bankruptcy because of a medical condition, illness or accident because, even though they had insurance and savings, there was not enough money to pay the bills after the insurance.

I have seen individuals with good paying jobs which they have had for years, suddenly find out that their company is down sizing and they are unemployed, but still have all of the debts from when they were making good money. Once they have gone through the savings and assets, they are still left with bills that need paid and no money to pay them.

The reality is, that while you carry a great deal of insurance which is great, many people do not carry all of these insurances because they simply cannot afford it. When it is a choice between food on the table and insurance, food usually wins. Insurance is looked upon as a necessary evil when one has money, but when one is in a financial bind, many times it is one of the first things cancelled.

There are many, many reasons why people file bankruptcy, and I have seen them all. Some are justified, others are not. Each should be judged on a case by case basis as each bankruptcy is as unique as the individuals involved.

~tb~
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