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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > The infamous "NICE GUY" rant      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Pandy
Joined: 11/11/2006
Msg: 26
The infamous NICE GUY rantPage 2 of 38    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38)
excellent points, Deagle...
and kudos for the OP Zoot....
When I see another "I'm such a nice guy...why do women crap on me" thread, I"m soooo posting a link to this thread for 'em.
 magicfingers1
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 27
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 6:00:38 AM
We've all run into them at one time or another -- the "Walking Wounded" -- women who've been hurt by men in the past and carry psychological damage and unresolved anger into present relationships.
Sometimes these women are still reeling from a nasty break-up or a recent negative experience with a man; sometimes the hurt is worse -- the aftermath of abuse.

No matter what the cause, the romantic lives of the Walking Wounded are steered by their damaged psychology -- they live in worlds of chaotic emotion where logic has no place. The best of them need time to heal and regain their equilibrium and trust; the worst are experts at self-deceit and self-sabotage, often absolutely blind to their behavior and its consequences on their lives.

Here are a few telltale signs that you're dealing with one of the Walking Wounded:

1- She's on emotional roller coaster
One day she's your best friend, the next she won't even speak to you; one night she's a sexual animal, the next she's as cold as January in Siberia. And all -- from your point of view -- for no apparent reason.

2- She constantly evades you
With women like this, it's always one step forward and 10 steps back. She will show interest -- even extreme interest -- and then suddenly and inexplicably become unavailable. No matter what you do, no matter how often you call her, she's gone -- and you won't see her again for weeks or even months.

Then out of the blue, she'll reappear with a big smile on her face, ready to go. And the whole vicious circle will start all over again, leaving you perplexed and bewildered.

3- She wants what she can't have
She reacts emotionally to the hurt in her past. She has all the normal biological urges to be with a man, and genuinely wants to have a successful relationship, but the very second her emotions are aroused, the lurking demon of her buried hurt rears its ugly head and she runs away.

In her psychology, relationships equate pain. The sad fact is, the nicer you are, the faster she'll run. This is why many of the Walking Wounded seek out emotionally unavailable men.

4- She doesn't do as she says
She'll tell you she loves you and wants to do everything in her power to make sure the relationship lasts. Then she'll start treating you like crap.

She'll tell you she's wants a commitment, then she'll cheat on you.

Don't take her at her word; instead look at her actions and judge her on that instead.

She's mad at men in general and someone hurt her badly
 FrenchGiant
Joined: 8/2/2006
Msg: 28
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 10:00:35 AM
I thoroughly agree with you here, Zoot--well written article!

My two cents have to get thrown into the mix as well, though...I have a female friend who taught me NOT to act like this because she was married to one of these linguini-spined Nice Guys. While he was a Nice Guy, he also literally smothered their relationship. When she heard me repeating the same rhetoric her hubby used, she stopped me right there and taught me a few well-needed lessons. Particularly thinking that if I could find someone to love, I'd be happy. BOY, was I wrong!

But here's the flip side--I can see where they're coming from as well. The key is to love yourself first; only THEN can you love others. Well, they can't find anything about themselves to love, hence the severe insecurity. They can't see the good in their life through the failures. It reminds me of old jocks that remember that one moment in the big game where they failed and can NEVER get past it. Imagine waking up every day and hating your existence because you can't let go of the past. I've been there a few times.

I realize I'm just re-stating the point--that Nice Guys have insecurity issues--but I'm more trying to allow others to see life through the dark-colored glasses they look through....unless you already could. :)
 swimsalot
Joined: 8/6/2006
Msg: 29
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 10:09:26 AM
A lot of "nice" guys are just doormats who will do anything a woman even hints at... nobody likes a pushover... would you date a girl who couldn't hold her own?
 MustLuvCats
Joined: 8/3/2005
Msg: 30
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 10:23:53 AM
Wow, love the "walking wounded" descriptor. I know a couple of women that fit your definition almost exactly.

As far as nice guy thing goes, it seems like too many "needy guys" are considering themselves as "nice guys"

Sooooo....being a self proclaimed genuine "nice guy", let me tell you what I think a "nice guy" is, right after I strap on my flame proof suit.

The Genuine Nice Guy: By me

He is equally kind to all around him. He doesn't show favor to the wealthy, the strong, or the good looking. The nice guy will give the bum a dollar, just because he has one to spare and would never make a snide remark about not spending it on booze. The nice guy is polite, and chivalrous. He is the guy who holds doors open for others, does not mind taking a moment to help a stranger jumpstart their car, or help someone carry their packages regardless of age, gender or looks. The nice guy is kind to children and animals, and treats everyone from his boss to the janitor with equal respect. The nice guy chooses daily to choose right over wrong, and is deeply offended by people that use and step on others for selfish gain.

The nice guy is definitely not needy. The nice guy may be lonely at times, but he has the inner strength of charachter to face the world alone, if that is his lot. The nice guy stands up for what he believes in and will fight to the death to defend the people and principals that he truly loves. The nice guy is patient and can find many ways to entertain himself without depending on others. The nice guy has a genuine sense of humor, and love to laugh at himself.

The nice guy truly does appreciate a beautiful woman, but knows that the body will age and it is the soul of a person that we truly fall in love with. The nice guy is a hopeless romantic, but doesn't go running around trying to re-create romance movies in his life. To the nice guy, chemistry is more important than physical beauty. The nice guy truly does want to be friends first, and is not looking for a quick lay or one night stand.

The nice guy is not flashy, so in the world he tends to blend, kinda middle of the road. In essence the nice guy is completely average and forgettable. The nice guy keeps himself busy with the things he cares about. You find the nice guy volunteering at church, at shelters, or wherever he truly feels he can make a difference in the world. He does this not to proclaim to the world how much of a "nice guy" he is, but because it is his heart's passion. You will most likely not find the nice guy at nightclubs or bars or any other "meat market" type environment.

The nice guy wants a nice girl. He knows that the vixen, the temptress and the cheat, despite how intoxicating they may be, will only lead to inevitable heartbreak.

Ok, that's my self proclaimed drivel. Take it as you see fit
 alonebutnotlonley
Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 31
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 11:08:39 AM
Mustlovcats

Couldn't have said it better. If you were in Michigan your statement would have gotten you a beer on me. My only comment would be you didn't describe a nice guy. You described a man.
 yankeeinnc
Joined: 8/2/2006
Msg: 32
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 11:34:41 AM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry but I stopped reading when I got here . I am a nice guy and I got a super analytical personality, especially to do with human interactions. Well you started out Ok but rapidly went to speaking out your.... Were you dumped by a nice guy or something. Nice guys don't possess all those things you clumped together, your describing a ****whipped, masochistic, wimp, with every negative trait the female mind can conjure up.
 Ratero-park-man
Joined: 2/2/2006
Msg: 33
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 11:36:31 AM
Well..... the OP appears to be gone, so it will be ok for me to 'respectfully' say to the OP post that most of it is rubbish, SOME of it makes sense and is right, but alot of it, (like most of the stuff I find on these forums) is a cheap way to overlook an opppression of others with clever language they TRY to make us think that they make sense when they only make it worse by hardening their hearts to the matter even deeper by their denial.
 angelab
Joined: 2/16/2006
Msg: 34
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 11:45:14 AM
Yes, that article is fantastic and the reason why I don't date men who constantly refer to themselves as "nice guys." I've been there and done that and it always ended up with me running away screaming from a clingy, insecure person with pitiful self esteem who was a master manipulator.
 Ratero-park-man
Joined: 2/2/2006
Msg: 35
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 12:02:34 PM
I want to see myself as more of a GOOD guy then a nice guy. I mean I am nice too, but I am NOT a push over and I stand up for what I beleive and whats right. Thats one of the things that makes a person good. I'll get in your face if there is a disagreement or conflict but I also like using rational thought and reason when confronting a person on an issue.
 calaf
Joined: 2/27/2006
Msg: 36
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 12:02:37 PM
Sometimes people mistake me for a nice guy. But I assure all you women out there - I am a pig!
 yankeeinnc
Joined: 8/2/2006
Msg: 37
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 12:15:48 PM
The nice guy that has all of the characteristics listed in this thread would mingle perfectly with a girl described in "The infamous B.... rant", if it existed. Some women just cannot be pleased no matter what.

Open the door for her.
I can open my own f'in door, thanks.
Don't open the door for her.
You crude sob.
 Jarbarian
Joined: 2/9/2006
Msg: 38
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 12:38:38 PM
Please search first before posting. These nice guy threads show up once a day:

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts4825355.aspx

What you are describing is a "DOOR MAT" but most people who are door mats don't understand. They think they are being "nice guys" but deep down they are just insecure men who trade their self-respect for love and affection.

Read the like I posted above.
 chameleontat
Joined: 4/3/2006
Msg: 39
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 12:40:12 PM
If you didn't read it please read msg.48.. It is more worth reading than the now dated comments of the OP. If you did not notice this man is not your typical "white boy" but represents a culture where men and women still have some traditional respect for each other and have not bought into the propaganda of our culture.

Far to many people in the Western world men and women alike have come to misunderstand the difference between a real ordinary nice man and the desperate spineless no self-esteem "nice guy".

Our American society has turned from one of the most moral and prosperous societies in world history to one of the most immoral nations struggling to maintain our living standards over the past 50 years. Our standards have dropped so rapidly that there is bound to be repercussions and confusion among our population. Factor into this the huge influx of immigrants from counties who have a far lower living standard than we and the export of our labor to third world nations.

We went from one person in the family working outside the home to man, woman and older children expected to work full time jobs. Careers and what you do or have has become more important than who you are and how you live your life. We are no longer content to have less and work our way up in life but think we deserve the best now and will pay for it later.

Those who choose to live closer to the standards and values that worked so well for many generations and treat their family and friends with traditional love, support and respect have been labeled with the "nice guy" label when in fact the "nice guy" labeled should not be nice guy but wuss, wimp, doormat or something similar.

A true nice guy or real man is the man that is described in Msg.48
 MustLuvCats
Joined: 8/3/2005
Msg: 40
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 5:47:59 PM
Hey guys, thanks for all the nice comments. I would like to point out though, that I am Korean born, I was adopted and raised from the age of 3 by honest and moral caucasian parents. Forget the hyphen, I am An American (of Korean ancestry) My definition of a nice guy is based upon my life experiences, (failures as well success) but more importantly from realizing what it was about myself that I truly did and didn't like and what my core values were.

Honestly I wasn't always a genuine nice guy, I have been the "needy guy" as well as the "jerk". Several of the other posters have made statements to the effect that you just have to truly like yourself before anyone else is going to sincerely like you, and I can't tell you how true that is.

Another excellent statement as to the definition of a man is the poem "If for boys" by Rudyard Kipling.
 Sakima
Joined: 6/28/2006
Msg: 41
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 6:07:38 PM
Mustluvcats, I agree with your posting as to the true definition of a nice guy. But even these types of guy's end up getting thier hearts broken by women who can't handle a guy like this. Alot.. not all, of women have dealt with jerks and a-holes most of thier lives and when they finally meet this nice guy, it seems they can't handle it. Not sure if it's because they feel they don't measure up or something, but if they would just give themselves a chance and think positive, they could end up with the best man they've ever had.

Also Chamelontat, can you tell me what civilization represents what american civilization is doing to itself now? Cause I agree with you and it brought this civilization to mind.
 Inocybe
Joined: 8/4/2006
Msg: 42
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 7:33:32 PM
I'll sum it up with a famous movie quote:

You can't respect someone who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work.

You can ignore the OP now =)
 Mr. Ivan
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 43
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/11/2006 8:06:42 PM
Nice article. As a certified NICE guy, I give it a .


Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on.


I'm a NICE guy who wouldn't mind at this time to be taken advantage of, have my ego stroked and taken for a ride.

 Etownboy79
Joined: 8/3/2006
Msg: 44
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History
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/12/2006 2:14:17 AM
My humble take on the "nice guy" subject, and all threads related:

The antagonists in threads of this nature always consider themselves to be "nice guys". LOL, but it's true. The reason is because those antagonists place a high value in maintaining their "nice guy" status, and are only standing up for their own beliefs. Totally acceptable. The problem, however, is simple. The "nice guys" that aren't "doormats", and are genuinely descent men, have been fooled by the actual "doormats". The actual "doormats", have, and always will put themselves in the same category as "nice guys". "Doormats" MUST classify themselves as "nice guys", because being classified as "doormats", especially by themselves, would be a blow that their already fragile egos would not have the strength to endure. So classifying themselves as "doormats" would be emotional suicide.

The confusion comes when the normal "nice guys", and not the actual "doormats", happen to see the negative feedback put on their chosen personality types in threads like these, and then choose to retalliate. Those that do retalliate are more like normal guys, that have chosen to call themselves "nice guys" because of a few personality habits or quirks they have like opening doors for people, being good listeners etc. Obviously an actual "doormat" would not be likely retalliate on these threads, since retalliating in itself would require a certain amount of self-confidence that most of them don't possess.

It seems to me that every nice guy thread ends in argument, but only because one side defines "nice guy" differently than the other side. Kind of the way that two different people may be asked to define the beauty of the night sky, they see the same exact thing, but use different words to describe that thing. This fact is humorous to me though, because each side actually does agree with the other when the actual argument is broken down to it's core, they just don't realize it.

The only unfortunate part about all of this is that so many have spent an incredible amount of energy on these topics with the genuine intention of helping those doormats realize their flaws, but we almost never see an actual "doormat" post on these threads. They aren't emotionally able to until they take that first leap and get out of denial. Until then, the actual "doormat" will find one or two things that they have in common with a "normal" guy personality type, and assume that type is a reflection of themselves. Of course the "normal" guy will consider himself a genuinely "nice" guy, and the actual "doormat" will cling to this image, calling himself the same. Sorry to all the true nice guys out there, but a bunch of doormats have leeched on to what you stand for, and have run your good name through the mud.

Adam
 thywolff
Joined: 7/15/2006
Msg: 45
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/12/2006 6:48:44 AM
Whoever wrote this is a complete idiot. I admit that I am a nice guy, but I know who I am and kool with it. This article makes it sound like nice guys need a woman to have a good happy life. I can tell you that is BS. I can be happy with or with out a woman, and I do not need one, I only want one. I admit I have a hard time finding women, but it is because for some reason ALL nice guys get lumped in to the catagory that this article portrays.

Bottom line, not ALL nice guys are the clingy losers that this article talks about. Not ALL nice guys are insecure.

It seems to me that there are so many of the nice in insecure guys these days that good nice guys automatically get stereotyped with the insecure ones.

If a woman thinks this way then I do not want to be with such a judgemental **** because I know that somewhere there is someone who will like me for me.

Do people really bring roses to a get together for coffee? I will admit, that is lame.
 nate1979
Joined: 10/31/2005
Msg: 46
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/12/2006 11:52:53 AM
Bring in stephen spielburg what an epic! The reason men are insecure is cause we are made guilty by being us so we turn into nice guys. GIRLS MAKE UP YOUR MIND! WHAT DO YOU WANT A SENSITIVE NEW AGE GUY OR A REAL MAN! as a guy the boundaries have been smeared. stop confusing us for crists sake
 happyhobbit
Joined: 9/7/2005
Msg: 47
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/12/2006 12:23:16 PM
I think everyone is deserving of love, regardless of who you are.
 Kerry C
Joined: 7/28/2006
Msg: 48
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/12/2006 12:37:18 PM
Damn Zoot,...that ACTUALLY makes sense, & WITHOUT insulting ANYBODY! Good for you
 Etownboy79
Joined: 8/3/2006
Msg: 49
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History
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/12/2006 7:38:08 PM
thywolf....read post directly above yours. Your complaint is exactly what I tried to avoid.
 Wandering Spirit
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 50
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 8/13/2006 7:45:28 AM
There are a lot of folks that can turn nasty when there is no future.

As for me, there is not a lot of nasty in me.
The best I can do is point out the truth and
maybe hand back some of the treatment dished out...
quid quo pro...

;^)
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