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 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 845
The infamous NICE GUY rantPage 38 of 38    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38)

So if I compliment a guy on something I find interesting in passing it's interpreted as (romantic) interest? OK, good to know.


Okay, this has been my experience with this type of situation. Most very attractive women are hit by good looking guys, predatory guys, average guys so much that many AVOID making eye contact with these guys or even giving them a complement. So when ever they go out of their way to complement a guy, it's because they find the guy INTERESTING. Notice I said interesting, not even necessarily attracted. What that means is that she has her guard down and it's allowing the guy to then communicate. Could that escalate, absolutely. Should it escalate? Of course. But that is where the guy can keep communicating with the girl, and if he is smart, he keeps it under the radar until she gives him more signals of interest. And women will give out signals if she is interested.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 846
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/2/2015 8:56:21 AM

Actually, I think one's ability to differentiate between a simple compliment and interest is pretty fundamental. It's the borderline between irritating pickup behavior and actual "game".

If a girl compliments you on the necklace, chances are there's Possibly some interest. That's what the follow-thru's all about. Yes, you don't take a compliment on your necklace as "Do you want to go out Saturday night?" or "I want to suck you off in the bathroom, stat." The follow-thru is to figure out if there's any real interest, and if so, to what degree, etc. I think Coma's point was doing a follow-thru VS not. Those who do not are the ones who are kick rocks, complaining that the singles/dating scene is too tough.

I might simply acknowledge her compliment and move on... or not... depending on my mood...

... or depending on how she looks and her body language... if she's expressive in an inviting way, she's attractive, and you're single, I would hope you'd open things up and follow-thru, right?

Or perhaps, I've decided she is only dropping a casual nicety...

True, that happens. Many times you can read that there's a high chance of that, depending on her body language.

Or I might decide if she's trying to pick me up that she has to put more effort into it...

A lot of guys aren't going to be so demanding if she's cute. :)

People seduce themselves as often as not... Leaving her with the option to try harder can itself be a good pick up technique

And a cute response could be, "Well, you're going to have to try harder than that.... (wink)." But in passing, there's going to be little option to let her pass by and think to oneself "Well, she's going to have to try harder." Very little chance she's going to walk 10-20 yards past you, turn around, catch up with you, and chase you down. But yeah, at a Super Bowl party at a local bar, knowing that you're going to bump into her again (as you've been in her general vacinity up until this point), sure. But I think, in reference to what you're saying, one's best bet is to follow-thru at that point -- but to express a little hard-to-get, and to "lay up" to follow-thru (or to position her to follow-thru) more later if you know you're going to be within their social-mingling crowd a bit later.

Maybe that's why a lot of guys with a sense of humour do well... aside from being funny, and that can be a good thing in itself for picking up ladies... a lot of guys who have a real sense of humour can appreciate their own failure in funny way rather than, being depressed by it

I think it goes both ways. From my experience, guys with a good sense of expressive humor can do a little of that, but also definitely be the type that's on the sidelines as well -- observing and chuckling at those who get shot-down, and making good jokes about it.

Lot's of people with a sense of humour are less likely to take themselves seriously and are able to see things in a detached, amused way...

Ehhh, I dunno. Yeah, there's definitely that, but I wouldn't say it's an accurate stigma to place on them. They can just as easily be the ones who laughingly/jokingly razz those who do such things and are a sideliner as well. I think such higher-humor guys, when not getting a taste of va-jay-jay in a long while, after a few drinks, yes -- are going to commonly approach as well, even though weeks prior they were a sideline commentator.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 847
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/2/2015 2:06:15 PM

I don't think you even need to be confident to be successful, you just need to be competent. Having fun and not caring is a high value behaviour in my opinion. A successful person walks into a room with a smile on his face.


Yeah. I've said it a few times, you don't fail your way to confidence. It's always going to take some success to build that up. Breaking that fear frees you from any worry. Rejection always sucks, because obviously you were kind of aiming for the opposite, but when it's at the point where you just immediately move on from it, it doesn't give as hard of a hit.

By accepting that you're timid, and using that to your advantage, I'm willing to bet that you'd actually have an advantage over the confident guy. If you already accepted the rejection, you're free to just act naturally, just take the chance anyway. You're probably going to come off as seeming like you're more confident than the confident guy. And then as you slowly find success, you'll gain confidence, but in a different way. You'll probably have doubts that you're going to get that specific girl, but you'll have more faith that you'll get A girl. It's a lot of how I work. I get dates fine, but for the first 2 or 3 dates, I assume she's not even going to show up. History since joining POF has kind of supported that idea way too much. If she shows up, awesome, someone to hang out with. If she don't, I'm right up the street from a pool hall, I can go get some practice in.

If you have friends, you can get a girlfriend. The only difference is there's typically more of an emotional attachment to the girlfriend, and sex. But out of the bedroom, it's exactly like a friend that you eventually decide to live with, and then learn how hard it really is having a roommate. This is why most of my life I'd date, but never wanted a relationship. I didn't want all the hard parts that come with it. Just dating is really just enjoying all the good parts, minus any dry spells, they suck.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 848
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/2/2015 2:24:26 PM

If you have friends, you can get a girlfriend. The only difference is there's typically more of an emotional attachment to the girlfriend, and sex.

Yeah... I slap my buddies on the a$$, call him hot-stuff... make out with them in a parking lot, kiss their neck a bit in public, hold hands walking down the sidewalk, try and convince them to make out with their female friends while I watch, go thru his underwear drawer for fun once in a while, gazes into his eyes and smile, buy him flowers on occasion, and get jealous if/when he's flirting with dudes at the bar. Yep, pretty much the same. ;)

All humor aside -- I get your point though... you want a GF to mesh well with you just like a close buddy would.
 mike11091
Joined: 8/25/2013
Msg: 849
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/2/2015 3:10:07 PM

Yeah... I slap my buddies on the a$$, call him hot-stuff... make out with them in a parking lot, kiss their neck a bit in public, hold hands walking down the sidewalk, try and convince them to make out with their female friends while I watch, go thru his underwear drawer for fun once in a while, gazes into his eyes and smile, buy him flowers on occasion, and get jealous if/when he's flirting with dudes at the bar. Yep, pretty much the same.


I get it that this was mostly a joke, but aside from the kissing and going through the underwear drawer, I knew a couple of dudes that acted exactly like this. I'm not sure if it was some sort of latent homo-sexuality or as some kind of joke, but it was really creepy.

Oh, and


By accepting that you're timid, and using that to your advantage, I'm willing to bet that you'd actually have an advantage over the confident guy. If you already accepted the rejection, you're free to just act naturally, just take the chance anyway. You're probably going to come off as seeming like you're more confident than the confident guy.


This is a convoluted way of saying, "if you're timid, fake being confident." Which is all fine and good, but contradicts your previous agenda of remaining timid vs. making changes.

Just because you're wording it differently doesn't change the fact that one must exude confidence to win hearts and minds. Either make it or fake it.

That's not saying the Milton's of the world don't have matches, it's just going to be a little rough getting there. (hopefully, not by burning down a building over a stapler.)
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 850
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/2/2015 5:11:06 PM

This is a convoluted way of saying, "if you're timid, fake being confident." Which is all fine and good, but contradicts your previous agenda of remaining timid vs. making changes.

Just because you're wording it differently doesn't change the fact that one must exude confidence to win hearts and minds. Either make it or fake it.


That's not what I'm saying at all. You're nowhere close. I'm saying to accept that rejection happens and that it's not the end of the world. Don't fear rejection. If you're the type of person that you're willing to bet you're going to be shot down, use it. You go in already rejected, how much worse can it get? The outcome doesn't matter anymore. You're just having fun.

But using our more common definition of the word... So you're afraid of rejection, but you're good with talking. Take that rejection out of the equation, and now you're just talking. Or maybe you're bad at talking to people. You know that odds are, she's not going to find you very interesting. So when you get rid of that rejection, then you're just on a numbers game until one breaks you out of your shell, or carries the conversations for you. You're basically using being timid as a positive trait. Instead of putting on this act, you're accepting the fact she's probably not going to date you. You just removed any stress that can possibly be involved.

In no way do you have to exude confidence. When these girls are saying you have to be confident, and these guys are saying it, I think coma picked the right word. You don't have to be confident, you have to be competent. Have you ever been surprised that a girl was into you? Did you ever think someone wasn't interested, but later found out you were wrong? That's proof that you don't have to be confident.

Rejection is a fact of dating. Everything really lies on how you handle that. If you fear it, or try to avoid it, it's going to be hard to find success because rejection is going to control what you say, how you act, etc. If you don't care about rejection, or you take the shot anyway despite being sure you're already never getting that far, you're in complete control of what you say and do. It's not about impressing the other person, it's about enjoying the other person now. It's just a different way of approaching the situation. One way, you're sure you're likely to succeed. The other way, you don't let the likelihood of failure stop you from trying anyway, no confidence needed. Plus, the added benefit that you likely won't rush anything. It lets the relationship build naturally.
 mike11091
Joined: 8/25/2013
Msg: 851
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/2/2015 6:10:50 PM
I wasn't trying to get close to your point.
You're intentionally trying to debunk confidence, when, in fact, your saying it in other words. You don't want to admit that, and that's fine, but that which you've been talking about IS confidence.

Actually, excessive belief in someone (or something) succeeding, without any regard for failure is defined as Overconfidence.

If you take out the "stress" about the outcome, again, that's confidence. You can scream all day that you're not talking about confidence, but you are. Think about what confidence is and then reread your last two posts. Look it up in the dictionary.

A lack of confidence, would be shelling up, getting nervous, being unable to move past your fears or look her in the eyes. Those are shy reactions. Being confident isn't all about randomly approaching women and being the kick starter to every human interaction. Confidence is about being you without worrying about what other people think or how they will react.

You're confusing confidence with extroversion.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 852
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/2/2015 6:32:06 PM

A lack of confidence, would be shelling up, getting nervous, being unable to move past your fears or look her in the eyes. Those are shy reactions. Being confident isn't all about randomly approaching women and being the kick starter to every human interaction. Confidence is about being you without worrying about what other people think or how they will react.

You're confusing confidence with extroversion.


Confidence isn't an all or nothing trait. I'm confident in my ability to drive a truck, I'm not confident in my ability to perform surgery.

If you have no confidence that you're going to get the date, but you're comfortable talking to people, then you're just talking, you're already rejected in your head. You're acting on your assumption of failure. You're not suddenly becoming confident that she'll date you, you're just accepting probable failure and completely taking that issue of the table. Almost everyone has been in that spot. Have you ever talked to the hot girl but thought she's not interested in anything more than talking? What I'm talking about is going for it anyway, even though you know for a fact that you're going to fail.

You're playing off of the negative. It's not confidence. You're going into this already failing, whether you fail or not. When you do that, the assumption that you're not going to get the date doesn't disappear, it's still there, but you're not acting to avoid it anymore. You're just letting the rejection happen and focusing on the conversation. Being apprehensive isn't necessarily a bad thing. We're putting a negative tone to the reason you wear a seatbelt.

I'm not talking about confidence, I'm talking about not fearing rejection. Two completely different things.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 853
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/2/2015 8:11:24 PM

This is a convoluted way of saying, "if you're timid, fake being confident." Which is all fine and good, but contradicts your previous agenda of remaining timid vs. making changes.

I see his quote as being more like "if you're timid, own it, embrace it -- and the by-product will be you'll end up being coming Across as confident." You're not TRYING to take it, or making "moves" to fake it -- your vagenda is creating a comfortable comfort-zone for yourself -- just love the by-product! IMO, you WILL become more confident -- which I see as making changes.

Why? Because you're changing you ways in a different way, is all. You didn't embrace/own being timid? Great, Embrace it. Let it become you. Much easier said than done, just like saying "be confident". So it IS calling for change -- he thinks it's more in line with your natural roots, but it's still change.

Don't fear rejection. If you're the type of person that you're willing to bet you're going to be shot down, use it. You go in already rejected, how much worse can it get? The outcome doesn't matter anymore. You're just having fun.

I agree with your approach. I really do -- as a starting point for someone who lacks confidence and is timid about it all. But you're still asking for some change though. It's not as easy as it seems -- even though, sure, it's an easier Step than most others.

In no way do you have to exude confidence.

But as you said, if you embrace rejection and it doesn't phase you one bit -- much like one's sports team losing all the time and you just saying "Fvck it, they lose, whatever. I want to see them get good draft picks, I'm embracing this," -- you'll come across (exude) more confident than a typical (reasonably) confident guy. Why? You ARE confident. You're confident that you'll get shot down. You change your mindset. "So what? Fvck it. I embrace this." You're now confident in your approach, whether it always has been decent, isn't good, or makes the hall of fame in suckiness.

My advice? It's a good first step, to jump into the cold pool so to speak. A big change. However, once you've accomplished this, what's next? You're not going to find a problem adjusting your game to a decent one that flows well with you. In fact, Much more things will flow well with you because you don't care about getting rejected anymore. You're not going to be rigid and stringent about all the little things and some bigger things. You don't care anymore about rejection, thus, you don't have fear. So, learn about some game, and make improvements/adjustments due to Knowledge gained that fits you decently.
 phinatic14
Joined: 5/10/2013
Msg: 854
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/4/2015 11:56:54 AM
Gee, you go out of town for a few days and look what you miss. Such a rivetting discussion.

[As I said in my post, I have no respect for people that make excuses for themselves]

I'm glad you feel this way. Now I can have some fun. . As much as this may shock you, the world isn't all black and whiite as you would like to believe. I realize the more scientific discussions on this forum are hard for you to understand, but at least try to see things from another person's perspective. It's not anyone's fault that you quit school because you couldn't handle multiple-choice tests, and asking you to read anything beyond the sports section was too much for you to handle. I have no respect for someone lacks empathy and who tells others about how easy it is to deal with something. Everyone is different.

Now, I'm not using my past as an excuse. I'm using it as an explanation. There are big differences between the two. Do you need me to tell you what those are?

Secondly, where in any of my posts am I giving advice about finishing college?

Now, you have mentioned a few times that you don't mean to be cold or callous when responding to others posts that side with me. I think you do, and it's now painfully obvious why you are this way. If what you said about the whole murder-suicide at six years old and bouncing around foster care is true, then this is a good explanation of why you are the way you are. Lossing family members at that age was a lot to handle. Being sent to different foster care homes, in which you probably became attached to each one and then was forced to go another home was traumatic as well. Especially at six years old. You no doubt became attached to each home, and being bounced around didn't help much. I could get into the really scientific stuff, but you'd just get lost. So, you say it's easy for someone to get over a traumatic childhood or pick up and go after seeing something they can't process. It's as easy as flipping the switch. So you're special, is that it? No, you're in denial. There's no shame in that. It's a common defense mechanism used by a lot of people.

So keep telling yourself you got over it tough guy, and that it's easy for someone to get over a difficult past. It's obviously working out great for you isn't it?
 antirepublican
Joined: 12/31/2014
Msg: 855
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/4/2015 12:48:23 PM

Now, I'm not using my past as an excuse. I'm using it as an explanation.


I am with you on this one, phinatic. I've read your earlier posts and it looks to me that you were merely assessing your boundary conditions as opposed to putting them forth as a reason for anything in particular.

I do think that Comma White is correct. You can improve your odds but the question is for what? If you believe Malcolm Gladwell, 10,ooo hours of practice invested into something will make you a master. 1000 hours will make you very good. People have only so many blocks of 10,000 hours during their lifetimes. Is using one on womanising worthwhile? Some would undoubtedly say yes. Some would say no. Is there something else that you could use your hours on that could bring you more lasting satisfaction? I think that that is the kind of choice that you already made. Who can call that wrong?
 mike11091
Joined: 8/25/2013
Msg: 856
The infamous NICE GUY rant
Posted: 2/4/2015 1:59:17 PM
Ah, reading comprehension is key.

Where to begin.


It's not anyone's fault that you quit school because you couldn't handle multiple-choice tests, and asking you to read anything beyond the sports section was too much for you to handle. I have no respect for someone lacks empathy and who tells others about how easy it is to deal with something. Everyone is different.


I earlier made a post about how it was a financial situation and not about grades, but that was a nice try.

I suppose when one's arguments don't have a leg to stand on, resulting to personal attacks and creating imaginary scenarios about why a person, for example, dropped out of college, is the constructive way to go.


Secondly, where in any of my posts am I giving advice about finishing college?


No. You were again, attacking the fact that I didn't finish it. Because your argument lacks substance, so you, very maturely, attacked an unrelated aspect of my life. The point I was making, in regards to the advice thing, is that there is no parallel between me finishing college and giving dating advice. Whereas, someone who admitted to being inexperienced in the dating world, shouldn't be giving dating advice.


Now, I'm not using my past as an excuse. I'm using it as an explanation.


That's not true. You were using it to justify your actions. AKA: an excuse.


No, you're in denial. There's no shame in that. It's a common defense mechanism used by a lot of people.


Being cold or callous toward one individual is hardly a significant sign of denial. And I've been around here long enough to know the posters I was replying to. My sympathy for how I sounded, to them, was real, despite your assertions to the contrary.

Also, I should reiterate (as previously posted) that I never said "as easy as flipping a switch". I said "it's an easy choice." Either you let it consume/define you or you move on. The world is as black and white as you make it. :)

I eagerly await your misinterpretation of the above.
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