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 SASSYN89178
Joined: 2/19/2007
Msg: 133
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!Page 4 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
If I were you, I'd ask to speak to the manager. I'd tell him that you would like to go there more often and even invite other single friends but the atmosphere is not conducive to women eating there alone.
You have to get chummy with the bartender, tip him well and tell him you would like to come back but you don't like the nonsense from some of the customers.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 134
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/3/2008 12:41:04 PM
. I did have that problem too that I can't go alone dining ,movies dancing etc.. I have to tag someone /a party along and I have to pay for his/her/their drinks( and I only drink water),food ,movies,snacks,I am not having fun at all aside from getting broke , my dates does not want to dance, too drunk,etc,,, I am stocked to them and Ican't meet other people in the club. and I am their taxi to take each one of them to their homes. I learned to go out alone, and make friends with people bartenders,servers ,security guards, and others. My tricks is I am ozzing with self confidence like I own the place and I am super friendly to people like I know them for a long time ( showbiz style). I never experience that I am a target for sexual. And when I go home the security guard see to it that I am safe to go to my car......Yes a woman can go alone by herself in any public places...
 texasbaby
Joined: 7/21/2005
Msg: 135
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/3/2008 12:49:34 PM
Dang! I have a house full of kids ~ going out alone is a treat! Lets see,,, I don't have to eat at McD's,, I don't have to stop and take anyone to the bathroom,, I can have an adult beverage,, the music is not from the Disney channel,, I don't have to climb into the play-scape to find a lost sock,,, the movie is not antimated,, Yep,, I'm just fine going out alone!
Oh,, the question was about "proper" ladies,,, Never mind.....
tb
 Roookie61
Joined: 10/5/2008
Msg: 136
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/3/2008 7:16:51 PM
I am looking for some fun, and someone to joint me
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 137
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 7:41:00 AM
In any restaurant setting or bar, I am polite and undemanding and I don't assume discrimination if service seems to be lacking. That seems to me to be overly sensitive. I'm certain that it happens to men, couples or groups too. I just put it down to human failure and I wouldn't tip that server very well, if at all. I have no problem directing a friendly smile and little wave at a server and I am then generally rewarded with quick service. I realize that I'm going to get better service with a polite and friendly demeanor than with a negative attitude. I go out alone often, generally with a book or a magazine and I cannot claim to have the same problems with service that I have read about here. Sorry about your luck.
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 138
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 7:58:31 AM
But would you call it discrimination because it does?
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 142
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 10:15:20 AM

Yes, it is discrimination if I am not treated like others simply because I am a woman on my own.


How do you know that it is because you are a woman on your own, that you receive poor service? If this were true, I would agree, however I posted earlier that men, couples and groups also receive poor service at times. Are they screaming discrimination ? Next, we'll have the visible minorities on here complaining that poor service is discrimitory against them. Again....I think that opinion is the product of an overly sensitive attitude, perhaps because you are a woman alone and maybe deep inside you really don't think that its' "proper".
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 143
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 11:17:28 AM
Me thinks thou doth protest too much.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 144
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 11:52:08 AM
OK,ladies STAND DOWN!
Look, it does happen that a lone woman doesn't get waited on as quickly as a couple, a family, or any other grouping. Sometimes it's understandable, and I do think that servers STILL half expect that a woman alone is going to have someone joining her. As far as "understandable", I don't blame a server for tending first to a family with rambunctious kids,( get 'em fed and out of the place ASAP) I've even TOLD servers to help someone else first; a family with restless, hungry kids, elderly people, military and public safety personnel, people who have obvious challenges (wheelchairs, oxygen tanks,, that sort of thing) because it's the right thing to do!
I have observed a tendency in bars for couples, pairs and groups to get a bit more attention from the waitstaff than a single woman. But you have to kind of play it by ear, if it's blatant, then maybe that joint doesn't rate your trade, or a quiet word with management. I expect there are crusaders out there that will find opportunities to "nail" establishments where discrimination against solitary female patrons is a frequent occurrence, but change doesn't happen overnight.
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 145
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 12:35:34 PM
Yes, ismene1, it does happen. How much anyone has personally experienced would depend on how often they go out alone and where they go. I'm also sure that there are matters of simple math figuring in... more than likely,and GENERALLY speaking,the establishment itself is going to make more money off a couple or group that it is on a lone person. I'm sure that PART of what helps waitstaff keep their JOBS is the beancounters seeing a good generation of income from that employees' tables. What he or she gets tipped isn't gonna mean much if that person gets let go the next time management has to cut costs. Other things that might factor, maybe the people waited on before the single lady are regular patrons ,they have a schedule to keep,and the waitstaff knows this. So it isn't always just about seeing a solitary woman patron as somehow being a lesser life form,there are a lot of factors to be looked at, and you might want to give those a minute's thought before you walk out or pitch a b*tch. Make sure you aren't making yourself look like an overly sensitive old bag,and/ or adding more stress to some poor server's worklife.
Pick your battles wisely.
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 146
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 12:58:30 PM

I do not pitch fits, ever.

Nor do I, but back a ways in this thread there was mention of having a conversation with the manager of the establishment. Which can be a useful activity if it's pretty clear that the situation WAS a product of sexist assumption. But I just wanted to point out that there could be understandable reasons influencing a server's decision to wait on a couple, a family, a group,etc first.

Look, the "single woman handicap/surtax" does happen. But I doubt that these situations are some huge social plot to make single women feel like lesser beings, or to pressure them into acquiring a SO by any means necessary simply to get some social seal of approval.
To get back to the premise of the OT "proper ladies don't go out alone..." that's ridiculous! Single women are NOT lesser beings, 2nd class citizens, or fair game for slander,mistreatment, or violence.
But if you're scared, stay home!
(the fearless)
Cindy O
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 147
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 1:05:30 PM
"I do not pitch fits"

Now would I do that When the male who wishes to put me in my place asks "So girl do you want a table", I just respond with "Good guess boy".
 m kaemicha
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 150
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/8/2008 11:16:44 PM
I am very independent and never think twice about traveling alone, dining alone, going downtown or to a movie alone. If I want to do something and no one is available then I do it alone. It's archaic to think or wonder what others think of why women do things on their own. It really surprises me that this is even a discussion.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 151
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/9/2008 6:55:41 AM
I don't run into the phenomena of the server removing all other place settings very often. That seems a bit odd...what do they think? That a lone female diner is going to drool on the other place settings? Grab the extra spoons and play along to the background music? ( I bet you'd get served real quick...hey I might be on to something here LOL)
Of course, the places that I go, I'm going to EAT (or drink and be entertained) I'm not trying to impress myself. I don't like candlelight dinners, I want to SEE what I'm eating, and I don't want to risk scandalizing the other patrons( and yes, the help) by using the wrong fork. Although I LOVE lobster, if offered the opportunity to choose a live one, I might not be able to control myself, and would end up turning them all loose in the restaurant, just to see what people would do...
So I cannot refute claims of discriminatory behavior against solo female diners in high end establishments or other countries; it's entirely possible that in those places it DOES happen.
And I'm not trying to discourage any single woman from getting up on her hind legs and speaking out if she is clearly being treated as a 2nd class customer ANYWHERE. But realize that sometimes it's gonna happen, and if it bothers you that much, then maybe you ARE a little overly sensitive. I mean what are you gonna do, as a completely practical matter? Never go anywhere? Wait for the "herd"? Go out and get a man? ( trust me honey, if you've got a vagina an income and a place to live,you can get yourself a male companion)
Cindy O
 rearguard*2
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 155
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/10/2008 9:06:43 AM
C'mon. 45+ people worrying about doing anything they wish to do? Give me a break!

What is a "proper lady" anyhow? Someone who sits alone by the computer waiting for an e-mail so she can go out and do something? I would label that kind of person as a "silly lady" myself.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 156
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/10/2008 12:34:07 PM
Ladies alone, and women in groups, tend to get lousy service. Just an observation. Perhaps fueled by the fact (observed) that women, except former waitresses, tend to be really lousy tippers? Maybe from observing others do for pay what they do for free most of the time? I've had friends that when they went to freshen up, I have felt obliged to double their tip while they were gone just so we'd be able to dine there again, lol!

 rustytraveler
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 157
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/10/2008 1:01:14 PM
I used to wait table in high school and they usually are not great tippers unless they've waited table too and big tables of people leave big tips especially if they're drunk and men tip for the privilege of looking at a young girls ass after they've tried to look down her front as she served them their dinner....... it's a cold cruel world . Sometimes it's just the money .
 rustytraveler
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 158
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/10/2008 11:45:34 PM
Of course Ismene, this was back in the day and now I live here, where tip issues never arise because it's included in the tab.

I was always nice to women and everybody else for that matter, just because I'm friendly.... really can't say as I've had this come up around here locally, but whenever I'm in a more touristy area....it does apply and why I think it may have more to do with money and maybe even cultural habits than anything else.... not a particular aversion to single women per se.

Considering that I live in a latin country, I'm sure there are numerous crass options that run through servers cultural minds also.
For ex; this is a country where no female of their nationality eats alone unless: she's widowed, childless and sisterless, is a shady lady looking for a john or filthy rich and playing coyote .......this whole working, vacationing single woman thing hasn't quite entered their conscientious yet (they wouldn't be waiting table if they were all that educated now would they?)

When in Rome.....
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 159
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/13/2008 9:24:50 AM
I would agree that a single woman may be predetermined as poor tippers. I would also say that a poor tipper could be defined by the "keep the ice tea filled" comment, particularly if refills are free. I maintain however, that a smile, a friendly wave and a positive and happy attitude from me always initiates immediate service. I can't say however, that the service is always good. I too, regularly go out alone and I never feel discriminated against because I'm a woman. Its' all about perception I guess.
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 162
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/13/2008 3:37:56 PM
Rolling on the floor and laughing my azz off.

I'm sorry, but don't you hear yourself? Let me guess. You feel discriminated against by me! Surprise! Again....its' all about perception.
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 163
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:41:03 AM

#227 I maintain however, that a smile, a friendly wave and a positive and happy attitude from me always initiates immediate service.I can't say however, that the service is always good.

#200 How do you know that it is because you are a woman on your own, that you receive poor service? If this were true, I would agree, however I posted earlier that men, couples and groups also receive poor service at times.

#194 But would you call it discrimination because it does?

#192 I am polite and undemanding and I don't assume discrimination if service seems to be lacking. That seems to me to be overly sensitive. I'm certain that it happens to men, couples or groups too. I just put it down to human failure and I wouldn't tip that server very well, if at all.

#192 I have no problem directing a friendly smile and little wave at a server and I am then generally rewarded with quick service.

#173 When a restaurant is busy, a mistaken assumption can be made by a server that a single person at a table is waiting for someone. People are human and make mistakes

#171 This happens to everyone sometimes. The servers are human. Discrimination? Sometimes perhaps.....


The above are quotes from my earlier posts all sending the same message which some posters refuse to acknowledge and instead insist on believing that I am personally bashing them. My message has been simply that a friendly smile, a wave and demeanor will ensure immediate service for anyone and that I have not suffered from this discrimination against women. I believe that attitudes like "Oh my f*cking God" will ensure discrimination to those with that attitude. It is my opinion that over sensitivity has been displayed throughout this thread because none of my comments were intended as personal with the exception of the one suggesting that a poster was being over sensitive. Just my opinion after all. Doesn't make me right. Doesn't mean I've insulted, judged or labelled anyone. I simply believe that a positive attitude will overrule any discrimination that may have been perceieved.
 rustytraveler
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 164
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Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/14/2008 7:23:04 AM
Hmm....what would Dr. Phil say about being a 'right' fighter and needing to have the last word I wonder?
Like who cares who's wrong or right.... everyone has their own experiences, just because all of them aren't yours, doesn't mean others are deluded either..... . Personally I believe that proper ladies can go out alone... and do.
Now lets act like proper ladies ;-) and put a sock in it.
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 166
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/14/2008 7:47:21 AM

Now lets act like proper ladies ;-) and put a sock in it.


Now that feels discriminatory and demeaning. I don't think that is proper.

Chocolatebrowne....have a blast! Don't you worry about any discrimination either! Just have fun!
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 167
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/14/2008 9:06:55 AM
The two words "perhaps" and "maybe" are the qualifiers. Still being overly sensitive it seems.
 surely im shirley
Joined: 6/14/2008
Msg: 170
Proper ladies don`t go out alone!
Posted: 11/14/2008 9:26:26 AM
Somehow the whole discrimination issue evolved from the OP, which was really "proper ladies don't do out alone".

Anyways....since we're on the topic, how is it demeaning to anyone by simply insisting that perceived discrimination in a restaurant can be so easily diverted with the proper and positive attitude? Why would this be so hard to admit especially when everyone suffers at some time from poor service and yet do not take it personally?

Sigh.....I'm so confused.
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