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 NightElfWarrior
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 66
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Stop Buying Made in ChinaPage 2 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
iamjumbo's list is fine and dandy, but sadly, it is not in the corporations' natural tendencies to follow. Basically, just about everything that happens in the world can be explained by the phrase "follow the money". One can argue that companies that follow the list will gain public admiration, and people would make a point of purchasing their products as a result, but that is not something we can count on. Making a profit is the most direct way "to the money", and the only part of the list that most companies observe. One very good example is Hewlett-Packard Co., the way it was run from its creation until the founders left the helm in the late 1980's. The founders were very altruistic and took great care of employees, with great benefits, good working environments, an unwritten "no-layoff policy" and policies that directly fostered teamwork rather than competition between workers. This way of doing business was given the label "The HP Way" and is also the title of the book written by Bill Hewlett, one of the founders. As a result of "The HP Way", industry's brightest minds and the Universities' top graduates all coveted jobs at HP. Employees truly thought of HP as "family" and were fiercely loyal to the company. As a result, HP product quality was legendary, and its customer service was incomparable because every single employee who dealt with a customer was self motivated to give the customer a good impression. The whole thing fell apart though, when the founders retired and handed control over to an outsider CEO. HP has since then been led by more typical management, instituting policies that short-sightedly gave them the shortest path "to the money". The "HP Way" has become merely a historical curiosity, and HP has become just like any other company, treating employees like a resource to be exploited. HP is also no longer considered a company with any better quality than other companies. Their original core business, electronic test equipment, was spun off, and they have become just another PC and printer company. Nothing remains of the old Hewlett-Packard besides the name. So my point is, HP's founders followed something similar to iamjumbo's list and made it work with great success, but they were an exception. It is not realistic to expect something like HP to happen unless it is a company that is controlled by its founders, who are personally invested in the company for life and think of it as "their baby". Rather, it is more realistic to expect CEO's who are mainly interested in personal wealth and do things that may not be best for the company in the long term, living for profits on a quarterly basis. The old HP has been systematically dismantled by a series of CEO's who came along and got their "golden parachutes". This is just simple human nature though, and HP is neither the first nor the last company where it will happen. It is also why we need government intervention to check corporate greed and make companies at least give a semblance of following the things in the list.
 Sydkeyne
Joined: 1/21/2008
Msg: 69
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Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/6/2008 6:00:23 AM
I agree we should not buy made in china not only because of their human rights record but because the stuff is all rubish anyway.
The problem is that half of the stuff made in other countries contain components that r made in china, so how does one know which is which or what.
There must other ways of making the chineese change their ways to become more respected by the rest of the peace loving nations in our world.
Having said all that, I am not too fund of American foreign policies either. The chineese export to America is at its highest record levels and so should we stop buying American goods Too??
Peace, Love and Understanding.
 NightElfWarrior
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 74
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Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/6/2008 11:48:23 PM
You tell a very interesting and inspiring, yet very sad story. I can't help wishing someone like you were president for 2 terms, then perhaps you could make this country a much better place to live and work in.


Redwood34, thank you for that compliment out of the blue! I am not fit to run for President, but could I get you to vote for John McCain? No candidate is ever a "complete match" with anyone's stand on all issues, but McCain has demonstrated some very important characteristics throughout his lifetime:

Unassailable character
personal integrity
Honesty
A genuine love for his country, to the point of voluntarily endangering his life

McCain has shown his steely resolve and ramrod backbone throughout his life, and I believe if anyone can clean out the dirt in government, he would be the guy. There are some things wrong with our government that would take political suicide to fix, due to the influential people who could be hurt. But McCain has the added bonus of not having to worry about any future political career, due to his age. He has already brought up the matter of congressional earmarks. I think he would dig up more stuff if he got into office, and didn't have to worry about gathering political support from the Establishment to get elected. Although just a hunch, that's what I believe...
 tableguy
Joined: 11/12/2007
Msg: 80
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/7/2008 7:43:32 PM
I sell made in china goods and i make these goods in Canada There is an incredible difference in quality, but there is also an incredible difference in price's The question is why.Well ,they pay there workers a small % of what we pay our workers. As i understand it, there are no benefits, and the government subsidies many of the businesses. They sell and deliver their products for half the price wall mart or anyone can get it in Canada/U.S.A.. They learned alot from the mass manufacturers in the U.S.A.We call it American know how.Make the product look good.They make the product look good, but the quality, well you know.The consumer, thats the key.He sees two products that look the same but, one product is half the price of the other.You guess which one he chooses, does he or she think of our workers or human right abuses, they only see the price.If we ever change the mentality(i doubt it) of the average consumer, then and only then there will be a change.In the meantime the government appeases us with good job creation stats.- These jobs are more to do with hi tech then any manufacturing jobs .Unfortunately we are loosing our manufacturing sector and replacing it with service and hi tech jobs.
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 84
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Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/7/2008 10:30:21 PM
If society values blue collar work done without slave wages then we should use import controls on Chinese goods. Its economics 101 how much do you value savings 200 dollars for a computer verse paying 200 more for a computer made closer to home. Lots externatlites in regards to trade actually, and open trade is not bad when competition is between equals.

China is not equal rigs the yuans to make worth less than it is, and copyright violations and knock offs devalue the hard work of European, and American companies. Trading among free countries politcally and economically is good. Trade with China is we need to acutally prohibit Chinese buying technology, defense companies prevent using millitary or technological knowhow against the west. Also, India is worth more trading with than the curropt Chinese.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 85
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History
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/7/2008 11:06:47 PM
I buy what is best for me - - -

I do go to the local fruit stands, etc.

but if USA tool cost $50 and one at a store that comes from China is $25. Which will I buy?

I agree that China needs to shape up - - but controls in that we have that raises prices but then we have to look at our own rules and regulations and see what ones are costing us.

Many will be found - - - today, we have to simply look at the legal aspects of what we sell, can we be sued - for billions, all of this effect price - - - Some are dumb - back a lawn mower over your toes, sue for millions, A person picked up a lawn mower to use as a hedge trimer and cut his fingers off - - sued, A man is stealing hub caps from a car, the owner gets in the car and drives of - - does not see the thief on the other side and runs over him -- is sued and looses,

We have excessive regulations - - - when Boeing started the design of the 767, the regulation and permit process took longer than to design the airplane, that is right - - the permits to build the building took longer than the time to design and build the first airplane.

all of this is extra costs to manufactures that the Chinese do not have - - a long with many others.

Jim P.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 92
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Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:45:31 AM
I'll second mudflap. If you buy made in China you are supporting the Chinese military, hardly our friends

Freedom and democracy is a very important value, and the best way to break down China's dictatorship is to starve it.

FREE TIBET and TAIWAN!!
 scotlandforever
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 93
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 9:56:21 AM
There are other reasons to stop buying "made in china" those being that perhaps it would slow down that economy that is rapidly growing and driving up the world demand for oil and another being that it may slow down chinese expansion in South America and Africa. The U.S. and Europe needs to really take note of where China is involved in the 3rd world and the extent to which she is.
 scotlandforever
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 94
Stop Buying Made in America
Posted: 4/8/2008 10:06:09 AM
nedlog, thats a pretty simplistic and ignorant statement to make. You are saying that the U.S. is more warlike thatn Nazi Germany, Stalins Russia, and several other regimes in the 20th Century alone? You know nothing about History if you really believe that or do you jus say what you hear U.S. Bashers from around the world say? And before you accuse me of being defensive or in denial because I am American; I was born and raised in Scotland and I have lived and traveled all over the world. The U.S. has it's faults like every Country but she is still a great country and the people are still the most generous that I have encountered.
 tableguy
Joined: 11/12/2007
Msg: 95
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 3:36:43 PM
The consumer will never stop buying made in china goods as long as they are much cheaper.As SD said .I buy made in china tools at 50% of the price and use the rest for a date. Few are thinking of human rights, chinese military, use of more oil, pollution etc. Most are thinking of their pockets.The only way to alter the price structure of goods is by govn't tariffs.IF you want to live in a safer enviorment,there is a cost.Safety, regulations ,pension's wages, etc cost money. It is reflected in the price of goods.
 tableguy
Joined: 11/12/2007
Msg: 97
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 5:22:44 PM
an not everything is cheaper, only 99% of the things are cheaper, and they have to transport it across the ocean
 Lucky_Vet
Joined: 3/27/2005
Msg: 99
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:06:42 PM
op: Lol, line up outside an Walmart after a 500K Saturday in sales.

Realistically, there wouldn't be much left to buy.

And as a Chinese importer, wholesaler, retailer, I can honestly tell you 1 thing matters: The best stuff for the lowest price.

Just look at your import cars and tell me if I'm wrong.
 Lucky_Vet
Joined: 3/27/2005
Msg: 100
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:09:29 PM

It is purely corperate greed not want of cheaper items that have caused corperations to outsorce.


Bullshit, and 101 to everyone in this thread on reality:

2 Factors have rendered American companies innefficient: Excessive taxation and regulations, the same 2 things China dumped 5 years ago.

The media is in bed with the men who bankrupt your country, and they love it when you believe its the Evil CEO's.
 Lucky_Vet
Joined: 3/27/2005
Msg: 101
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:12:35 PM

that is a classic example. it is for that very reason that corporations need to be tightly regulated,


The above is 100% wrong. Regulations create inefficiency. The ultimate moderator of a company is competition. Everyone repeat this: There is Nothing the gov't does that helps companies, it only hinders productivity.
 Lucky_Vet
Joined: 3/27/2005
Msg: 102
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:18:01 PM

we also have new stores opening up who Only carry from Canadian designers and manufacturers.


And they probably won't last. You're buying into Darryl Junkin's Craftwork nonsense. Bottom line is and always will be most bang for the buck wins.

We send our technology & QC inspectors to China to build it as good or better than us, and they're quickly getting better.
Next couple of years, watch out for the Chinese Car on our roads.
 betterlate
Joined: 12/22/2006
Msg: 104
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Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:30:26 PM
There is a rumor that china owns the only deep water port on the west coast, in San Diego, and that they are planning to open up several ports in Mexico and begin shipping in tons and tons and tons of crap, cheap crap designed to put every American, Canadian and Mexican owned companies out of business. The reason I say it is a rumor is because the same person that told me this also told me the Clinton and Bush administration sold all of our National Parks to the UN, and I posted that here and nobody believed it untill they started asking... yes it is true. It is very sad that very few Americans turn off the TV, get up off the leather sofa, push the plate of fried food away and do something with their lives. They only believe what they are told by the pretty shiny people on the TV, they hate who they are told to hate, like who they are told to like, vote for who they are told to vote for leaving a small group of people screaming until they are hoarse about waking up, the people are too complacent, the government and corporations too corrupt and we are powerless against the banks who run it all.

I wish people could see and believe the truth, I dont know what else could be done. I just dont know what is wrong with most people. Actually most of the people that donate to the forums seem informed and intelligent. Why dont we all get together and put the big dogs out of business, open up stores called Made in the usa, heck I am sure with this entire group putting their brains together we could really make a difference...

We will see,
 Lucky_Vet
Joined: 3/27/2005
Msg: 105
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:34:18 PM
Well betterlate, you got most of it right. The UN is really a big elitist front, and it will govern us one day.

As far as stopping Chinese imports, go to the root. Someone like America's Ron Paul would end corrupt income tax and regulations on companies, that within itself would skyrocket America's economy and foreign investment.

I'd move my companies down there in a millisecond.
Problem solved @ the root (but most don't get it.)
 Lucky_Vet
Joined: 3/27/2005
Msg: 106
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:36:05 PM

you feel that you need to attack and not just ad your 2 pennies worth


They're not pennies, they're millions, and their backed with the experience and knowledge that made them happen.

Lose the emotional reaction, sit back and listen to the smartest person in this forum.
 tableguy
Joined: 11/12/2007
Msg: 108
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:58:45 PM
Wake up, its not greed its the most profit, and companies are entitled to make the most profit.How they see these profits, is up to them.
As far as the lucky vet is concerned a)the chinese product today is much inferior.Five years from now i dont know 2)Govn't is needed to regulate , to have standards. l.Other wise we will see a lot of sh*t on the shelf that can do alot of harm.
 cuillerier
Joined: 6/21/2006
Msg: 109
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:02:03 PM
I agree we need in North America to stop buying Chinese made Junk.

I have shoes, that the rubber is falling off, a computer monitor junk after 1 year, scissors that are wore out, screws that strip easily, etc.

Theres not much quality in most of the stuff from there. I got a calculator that the number 5 was really a 9, etc. I had a shopping bag, made in China, that was ripped in about 2 weeks.

I hope in time we can make the stuff here, and forget that chinese stuff thats no good. What a waste of money if it last 5% as long as a north american made item.

Take Care Folks!
 tableguy
Joined: 11/12/2007
Msg: 111
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:26:21 PM
No matter what our infrastucture is we cannot compete with 5 or 6 billion chinese who work for minimal wages and almost have no regulation It is up to the government to change the way the chinese do business.Buy increasing tariffs until the chinese play on a level playing field.That means minimum wage vacation pay , pensions. Ican see the chinese govn't agreeing to all that.Or let them make it, and we will fix it.Increase the service sector
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 113
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History
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/9/2008 1:36:22 AM
We can get along without Chinese made imports but the purchasing power will be reduced in the west across the board. Still, maybe its 30% more for a computer or automotive component without Chinese trade, but at least we wont have to buy from companies that use politcal prisoners to build cheap imported goods.

Im a pragmagic and know that trade with China will not end, but the terms need to be based on among fair rules. For example, Chinese producer exports a dvd player that is sold at department store for $29.99, but the cost to produce the DVD player is $23.99 and the real cost is $28.99. The Chinese use export rebates, and yuan rigging export goods below the acutal cost to produce it. The Chinese are using merchantilism 101, and giving the West its opium of cheap electric goods. The cheap electronics wont last forever since Chinese producers will move up the food chain of production goods to export.

These politcains can stress more education. Yes, eduction is important but not every person is gonna be enigeer or highly skilled worker. Society and the economy should be conform to the confront level of society. The question is buying a computer from China worth savings of $200 if you see your fellow citizens in the west lose thier jobs . True, some jobs will never come back to Europe or North America, but should we the west devalue are working class to help the Chinese producers out. Not against trading with China, but China needs transpracy, human rights, civil freedoms so actual costs of the goods are transparent to society imported from China. Just against politcal prisoners building computers, or goverment denying workers basic safety, sanitation breaks, and the right to form independant trade unions, and not goverment run trade unions.
 Lucky_Vet
Joined: 3/27/2005
Msg: 114
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/9/2008 7:37:18 AM
Good answer gizmo. little is known that prisons are actually factories (payoffs made to wardens) and otherwise free men are kept there.

RBM is deliberately devalued as well, amidst protest throughout the world.
Biggest problem is our own system that drove our companies over there.

Excessive taxation, regulation vs non of that in China. Our companies have little left for R&D necessary to stay 20 years ahead of the world as we once did. Much smarter to go over there, educated them, place your own QC inspectors, and make your product. America as we know is finished, soon it'll all be one world rule.

Most fail to realize Obama, Hillary, Bushes, McCains, etc are all in bed with the CFR (a david rockafeller original) aimed at eliminating sovernty. Buckle your seat belts.

You silly americans want to save your country? Boot out the elitists, vote in your Texas congressman. Anybody with a clue of economics, socio political systems gets it.
Rest is all bandaids, go to the root.
 Obsidius
Joined: 9/11/2006
Msg: 115
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History
Stop Buying Made in China
Posted: 4/9/2008 6:46:41 PM
there's several stories floating around in the media these days about product recall due to lead found in these products:
stop the chinese poison train
http://consumerist.com/tag/chinese-poison-train/
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