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Not dating costs less than watching tvPage 14 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)

In general, men want the Scarlett Johansson type and women want the Brad Pitt type.


I think what your missing is, most of us here are just average. With a few exceptions, none of us are ever going to get Scarlett or Brad. You need to find the one who is Scarlett to you.


What turns me off dating is what I see on social media. I see a lot of women putting men down for not having money or not being tall or not having a nice body while they themselves aren't what men are looking for.


I hear men all the time who think they are entitled to Scarlett when they themselves are nothing near what Scarlett would probably ever consider. So what? lots of delusional people out there. Not our job to change them. I see people coupled up all the time who I don't consider attractive and I'm sure most people wouldn't consider conventionally attractive. They have found each other and they are attractive to each other, that's all that matters.

Im a woman, I have many friends and family members who are women. With the exception of one person, I can't ever remember any of them specifically saying they wanted a man with money. Do they want a man who can support himself, that they dont have to keep? Yes!
You're a smart boy, I'm sure you would be able to determine fairly fast whether someone was just interested in your cash.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 336
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Not dating costs less than watching tv
Posted: 7/11/2018 1:02:24 PM

I think what your missing is, most of us here are just average. With a few exceptions, none of us are ever going to get Scarlett or Brad. You need to find the one who is Scarlett to you.


I'm not shooting for a movie star, what I meant is that those people are examples of the male and female ideal partner.


I hear men all the time who think they are entitled to Scarlett when they themselves are nothing near what Scarlett would probably ever consider. So what? lots of delusional people out there. Not our job to change them. I see people coupled up all the time who I don't consider attractive and I'm sure most people wouldn't consider conventionally attractive. They have found each other and they are attractive to each other, that's all that matters.

Im a woman, I have many friends and family members who are women. With the exception of one person, I can't ever remember any of them specifically saying they wanted a man with money. Do they want a man who can support himself, that they dont have to keep? Yes!
You're a smart boy, I'm sure you would be able to determine fairly fast whether someone was just interested in your cash.


I can definitely tell what someone is after. There are definitely a lot of delusional people in the world. In the end, it's all about reference experience and finding a location with a better male to female ratio. Online dating seems to be one of the worst places for men.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 337
Not dating costs less than watching tv
Posted: 7/11/2018 1:20:48 PM
"Yeah, there's a lot of that going around with nice people not being valued."

>>>well, sometimes they are valued as friends, when they want to be valued as lovers. So they are valued for what the other person wants them for. They just don't agree with the assessment :) They want the upgrade in their status. And of course there are nice people who just get used. Some of those are doormats, and maybe they're nice in order to get something.

"I don't place less of a value on someone with less money, but they're not for me."

>>>this is a problem some of us have--we have standards b/c we know what doesn't work for us, but then we get judged b/c for others, those standards are a hot button to be pushed. Someone might think a small town has little value, so therefore others should think their way. Some are pro-kid, others not. Some people are exhausted with people they know who use excuses to cover up shortcomings, and so everyone must be making excuses--but others listen to peoples' "excuses" and found out there was a real problem going on. And some people here fall for groupthink--someone they like said something, so they jump on board, or fail to speak out when that person says something they have been against in the past.

it all makes the forum interesting...and sometimes fun :)
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 338
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Not dating costs less than watching tv
Posted: 7/11/2018 2:10:18 PM
The problem isn't being nice. That would be a poor excuse for not being nice. The problem is a person that doesn't have boundaries for how they want to be treated. Maybe they have a low self-worth or they're scared to set boundaries and lose someone. People that aren't nice can still be taken advantage of.

I can agree with someone's comments without liking everything they have to say, just like I do with friends IRL.
 reverendswine
Joined: 4/14/2018
Msg: 339
Not dating costs less than watching tv
Posted: 7/11/2018 2:29:52 PM

If you're shy DON'T just go to a bar and try to talk to hot women. That's one of the most unforgiving and cold environments


Irrational fear at play here. In my decades of bar and club experience, from upscale to total dives, I have seen absolutely nothing to support the notion attractive women are more likely to verbally annihilate a man for merely talking to her, and I would venture to say neither you or any other man has, either. At some point, one has to stop thinking of isolated incidents as the norm.

Stick around too long without doing or saying anything to determine where you stand with her? Sure, she just might get a bit agitated.


Someone might think a small town has little value


That would be me. I am compelled to tell people their small town has little value when they complain about how boring it is or the lack of options.

Scarlett Johansson? I'll go with Sarah Shahi..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpx78ZOBbSg&t=228s
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
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Posted: 7/11/2018 5:48:02 PM

If you're shy DON'T just go to a bar and try to talk to hot women.

If you're shy, go up to a bar and nod and smile or say 'hi' to a hot woman then walk away (with your drink).
Surely, that's within your comfort zone... nothing more than acknowledging that this other person was there at the bar.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 341
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Posted: 7/12/2018 7:46:57 AM
Reverend wrote:
Irrational fear at play here. In my decades of bar and club experience, from upscale to total dives, I have seen absolutely nothing to support the notion attractive women are more likely to verbally annihilate a man for merely talking to her, and I would venture to say neither you or any other man has, either. At some point, one has to stop thinking of isolated incidents as the norm.
Well, maybe one can't extropolate the dating/mating behaviour of swine to humans. More seriously though, I disagree. Nobody's talking "verbal annihilation." I would not recommend a guy whose self confidence is a bit flagging, or whose convo skills need a bit of polishing up, to go for the hotties in clubs. In general. But there are many variables, such as club type, group a particular hottie is with, whether she looks approachable, group you're with, club noise, etc. etc. etc. And the most important variable...what the approacher dude looks like, and his ability to converse. We can pretend that doesn't matter, but it does. To an average dude with flagging confidence and little convo skills, a shoot down in these circumstances would not be rare, in my view. Maybe not a "verbal annililation," to your point, but a blow off nonetheless. Still painful to someone with low confidence. Again to your point, I really don't think I have even seen a "verbal annihilation" though, to a guy who didn't deserve it, so you are right those would ebe very rare. Actually the worst club blowoff I ever had, it was the opposite - the woman just ignored me as if I wasn't there. That was worse, cuz I didn't know how to react. I was thinking "Is she deaf maybe?" Sure she was, to anything *I* said to her. lol...

My suggestion is the equivalent to women telling another poster here to "work on yourself first" before jumping off that deep end. Yes, one can jump off anyways, but the probability of success is lower. I would always tell a guy whose convo skillz need work, to work on that first. It's the equivalent to pro sports teams handling their #1 draft picks - they rarely plop these guys into the first team. They let them build confidence by annihilating the competition in the minor leagues, or 2nd team, to learn and to build their confidence first, before "playing with the big boys." The sportrs world is littered with highly touted busts who were hurried too quickly and were eaten alive under the bright lights because, for all their star power in lower leagues, they were not adequately "built up" - both confidence and knowledge wise - and were fed to the lions too early and their confidence irreparably crushed.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 342
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Posted: 7/12/2018 11:41:08 AM
"Well, maybe one can't extrapolate the dating/mating behaviour of swine to humans. More seriously though, I disagree. Nobody's talking "verbal annihilation." I would not recommend a guy whose self confidence is a bit flagging, or whose convo skills need a bit of polishing up, to go for the hotties in clubs. In general. But there are many variables, such as club type, group a particular hottie is with, whether she looks approachable, group you're with, club noise, etc. etc. etc. And the most important variable...what the approacher dude looks like, and his ability to converse. We can pretend that doesn't matter, but it does."


>>>ok, i'll agree to a lot of this, a hottie may not verbally annihilate or castrate a dude, but I bet we can all remember some time we got a look, a facial expression, a body language that wasn't "normal"--we felt like a knave asking the queen out for a date :) or something like that. I wouldn't tell a guy who literally suffers from shyness--body quivers, voice stammers, and other involuntary "Fight or flight" reactions--to go into the breach. at best he might get a pity response. but, SS454 (or anyone else), how do you recommend a fellow ramp up from talking to a woman he isn't interested in, to talking to one he is, to making an actual pass at one he's interested in? Kinda like riding your first motorcycle, you can practice all you want on the backroads at 45 mph, but eventually you have to get on that highway and get sideswiped by a few big rigs at 75 to find your nerve. "what doesn't kill you" and all that.


I know the easiest way to run with the big dogs...and that is to grow up knowing you already had what they were born with. Or be so narcissistic you ignore any failure and over-focus on your success, like Mystery. For the rest of the mere mortals, do they work their way up thru the leagues, do they jump into the deep end of the pool and paddle their ass off, or...

seems like most of us agree on the training wheels, but how do we go for the gold? and when we fall off our horse, what gets us back on it (to abuse a pile of clichés).
 reverendswine
Joined: 4/14/2018
Msg: 343
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Posted: 7/12/2018 3:10:40 PM

And the most important variable...what the approacher dude looks like, and his ability to converse. We can pretend that doesn't matter, but it does.


Absolutely. It surely matters in terms of actually succeeding. You'll never see me deny that. As for appearance, that can be improved upon, but the biggest obstacle is to get someone to actually *do* it. (which is another matter altogether that's been covered and rejected with excuses)

However, looking one's absolute best isn't necessary to relinquish the irrational fears. The average person generally has people they *are* comfortable conversing with, and that's because fear isn't lingering over their head.

There's already been a myriad of suggestions presented. A wing woman who's social is perfect. Making friends with a guy who does well with women and going out with him can be effective, too. Any man who claims he's incapable of making friends with other men has bigger issues going on than I'm qualified to address.

But anyway, once the guy gets a sneak preview of just how unintimidating good looking women can be through the aforementioned methods, they will inevitably find themselves able to converse with little apprehension, much like they would with anyone else. From there, they *might* use what they've learned as an incentive to take care of the physical aspects and return another day to approach women when they actually have a fighting chance.



whether she looks approachable


Yes, body language is massive and so terribly understated. It helps tremendously to be aware of our own and what to look for in others.


Or be so narcissistic you ignore any failure and over-focus on your success, like Mystery.


How in the world is this narcissistic and what is mysterious about it??
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 344
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Posted: 7/12/2018 3:54:26 PM
"Or be so narcissistic you ignore any failure and over-focus on your success, like Mystery--How in the world is this narcissistic and what is mysterious about it?? "


" That type of grandiose assumption is a classic symptom of narcissists. They tend to believe they are naturally special, and part of an elite class that deserves only the best. "They fantasize about how much more powerful they will be, how much more beautiful, how much richer," explains McBride."
" Narcissists refuse to be held accountable for their mistakes and bad behavior, and instead shift the blame to someone else, says McBride. Even within their close personal relationships, narcissists believe there is always a winner and a loser, and she'll do what it takes to win."

https://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20981393,00.html#it-s-never-your-fault-0


>>you will be glad to know, there are other symptoms. I just mentioned those two, b/c they do work well for approaching women en masse. Its a way to make one DGAS, not take rejections personally, and keep going until success is found. Ignoring the failures and focusing on success can help make one feel successful, and success breeds success. But it also comes naturally to the narcissitic--there's a leader of a country who's a wonderful example. As for Mystery, he's the PUA typically associated with narcissism in dating:

"Indeed, a range of studies find a robust link between narcissism and physical attractiveness, and narcissists' tactics for standing out are well-documented, often by themselves. Case in point: the VH-1 self-declared pickup artist Mystery, who sports platform shoes, black fingernails, and just enough odd accessories (goggles/velvet hat) to give shy women a built-in icebreaker."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/201107/how-spot-narcissist

I concur, we should approach those ladies looking like they want to be approached--by guys like us. But that gets us back to...well, how many are looking like that? :) selection may be small, depending upon how we look to them.
 reverendswine
Joined: 4/14/2018
Msg: 345
Wanking off costs less than dating
Posted: 7/13/2018 11:56:53 AM
He goes by the name "Mystery"? Sounds like a douche already, and I haven't any use for PUA crap. I've been a member of an MMA forum (coincidentally, the word "mystery" is in my username over there, but it makes sense within the context of the forum) since 1999, and a few years ago, we had a California based PUA who was also a member. He always ignored my skeptical questions I asked after he posted his newest videos. This is the only other exposure I've had to PUA besides the little bit the younger guys in my family showed me long ago.

However, I don't see anything narcissistic about staying focused on what works and not dwelling on failure. If picking between the lesser of evils, for me, the obnoxious blowhard is far more tolerable than the miserable mope. I can't say I see anything narcissistic with wearing accessories that might be perceived as "conversation pieces", either.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 346
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Posted: 7/13/2018 12:09:23 PM
Normal men with good role models as fathers don't have to go online to learn how to talk to or treat a woman. If a man should need examples, these men pretending that they know it all to suck you in and make money are not helping you. What they're really doing is putting men down and diminishing them. It's men taking advantage of other men having a problem in life and that's repugnant to me.
 BLONDE_ANGEL_1
Joined: 4/27/2018
Msg: 347
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Posted: 7/13/2018 1:03:11 PM
There so called PUA men do not relate to women or men as a WHOLE PERSON.

Rather they objectify women & suggest men use manipulative ploys instead of helping the man work through his issues or switch to a more appropriate venue to meet women (and people as a whole).

There are plenty of very good people who do NOT go to clubs & bars.

They are everywhere, if others just opened their eyes they would see them.
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 348
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Posted: 7/13/2018 3:41:26 PM

we should approach those ladies looking like they want to be approached--by guys like us.



selection may be small


Infinitesimal, actually.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 349
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Posted: 7/14/2018 10:18:19 AM

Normal men with good role models as fathers don't have to go online to learn how to talk to or treat a woman. If a man should need examples, these men pretending that they know it all to suck you in and make money are not helping you. What they're really doing is putting men down and diminishing them. It's men taking advantage of other men having a problem in life and that's repugnant to me.


That's not true though. I hate a great father and I still struggle with approaching and talking to women. A lot of men struggle with that and there's nothing wrong with wanting to improve that part of your life. I don't expect people to produce videos and do workshops for free. Why would it be free? They have hours of free content anyway.



There so called PUA men do not relate to women or men as a WHOLE PERSON.

Rather they objectify women & suggest men use manipulative ploys instead of helping the man work through his issues or switch to a more appropriate venue to meet women (and people as a whole).

There are plenty of very good people who do NOT go to clubs & bars.

They are everywhere, if others just opened their eyes they would see them.


Sure they do. That's why you have to put your best foot forward. Many of them suggest approaching women during the day instead of going to night clubs. I don't really want to meet anyone in a club unless they're the type that doesn't go often and doesn't drink often. Seeing them is one thing, being attractive to them and having the social skills to form a connection with them is another thing.


I think I know why you are having such a problem with women. Statements like this make it sound like you don't like women too much. Why do you find it impossible to think some women find nerds sexy and it must be money they find sexy. Most women have their own money. Do all nerds have money? Women like men who actually like women, not douche's who think they are all money hungry, meal seeking whores, who will put out like a semi automatic in the back alley 5 min from now.


I like women, but I've never had a good experience with them. No matter how much I invested in the relationship, none of them had any loyalty to me. Lately, the only interest I've had from women is a few of them asking me to do free guitar lessons for them. Some seem nice but want kids and I'm not looking to start a family.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 350
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Posted: 7/14/2018 6:25:34 PM

coma_white
I like women, but I've never had a good experience with them.

I do believe we’re getting closer to the real problem. An analyst, which is what you need, would make a non-committal sound and say something like “Tell me more.”

If you’re 38 years old, and have never had “a good experience with a woman”, then you need the kind of help that no one here on an internet forum can provide.

And no, I am not trying to pick on you, or put you down, or make fun of you. Absolutely not. All I’m trying to say is, “Please seek help, my friend. This is not normal.”
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 351
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Posted: 7/14/2018 11:11:56 PM

I do believe we’re getting closer to the real problem. An analyst, which is what you need, would make a non-committal sound and say something like “Tell me more.”

If you’re 38 years old, and have never had “a good experience with a woman”, then you need the kind of help that no one here on an internet forum can provide.

And no, I am not trying to pick on you, or put you down, or make fun of you. Absolutely not. All I’m trying to say is, “Please seek help, my friend. This is not normal.”


It's actually pretty common. I didn't really realize it until I talked to other guys online and it seems a lot of women left their boyfriends in the dust because they were looking to upgrade. My last relationship was four years and she ghosted me out of the blue. We didn't have a fight or anything. If a person doesn't communicate what they want or what's bothering them, there's nothing I can do. Then I started hearing phrases like: "She was never yours, it was only your turn." I don't believe all women are like that, but maybe you're right in the sense that I need to learn how to pick better quality women. I've just never had a loyal woman that wanted to stick around when things got challenging.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 352
Wanking off costs less than dating
Posted: 7/15/2018 4:52:17 AM
lower quality partners, male and female, are easier to pick up. meanwhile, the less attracted we are to something, the less passion we have for it, the less we invest in it. sometimes, we're just the "settle", and we can choose to think of it as, "at least we had something" if we want to find a silver lining. or we can decide to be pickier in our choosing, and decrease our dating pool. as we get more mature, we may decide we need less dating to feel good about ourselves, and so we're ok with that smaller dating pool.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
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Posted: 7/15/2018 9:37:22 AM

lower quality partners, male and female, are easier to pick up.

I think it's the other way around.... people with lower expectations are easier to pick up.
Low quality people can have some very (word of the day) narcistic tendencies.
 sun___flower
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 354
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Posted: 7/15/2018 12:03:22 PM
2ufo
I think it's the other way around.... people with lower expectations are easier to pick up.

+1
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 355
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Posted: 7/15/2018 2:25:22 PM
Coma, that's the nature of many people in general, to run when the going gets tough. This is why marriage counts. A commitment on paper means more. If you don't want to commit to a woman that way, why should she necessarily stay during hard times? I'm not saying you should get married, but for people that take marriage seriously, it's an indicator someone is signing up to stay thru thick and thin, sickness and in health.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 356
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Posted: 7/15/2018 7:47:48 PM
Mustang wrote:
>>>ok, i'll agree to a lot of this, a hottie may not verbally annihilate or castrate a dude, but I bet we can all remember some time we got a look, a facial expression, a body language that wasn't "normal"--we felt like a knave asking the queen out for a date :) or something like that.
Yes, rejection is painful, no matter how it's communicated. But if a guy's not getting rejected here and there, he's not trying hard enough in my view. "Verbal annihilation" is rare, luckily, though, as most women probably don't like doing the rejecting either, thus they try to be as "nice" as possible bout it. But firm nuff to get the point across. Bon Scott (AC/DC) wrote a song bout it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKwVvSleM6w

Bon Scott wrote:
She told me to go to hell
That's what you call a verbal annihilation. Although if you read the lyrics, it was completely deserved lol.


This song is about a guy who goes out for a night on the town, hoping to hook up with a girl. Although he tries countless times to get with a woman over the course of the night, he fails, thus he gets "Shot down in flames."

The lyric comes courtesy of lead singer Bon Scott, who in contrast to the typical swaggering rock frontman, would often sing self-deprecating lines about his romantic foibles, which could be anything from an adventure in low standards
to a social disease.
I guess since there were no dating forums to complain on in 1979, guys with dating problems just started bands and wrote songs bout it.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 357
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Posted: 7/15/2018 8:52:52 PM

. I wouldn't tell a guy who literally suffers from shyness--body quivers, voice stammers, and other involuntary "Fight or flight" reactions--to go into the breach. at best he might get a pity response. but, SS454 (or anyone else), how do you recommend a fellow ramp up from talking to a woman he isn't interested in, to talking to one he is, to making an actual pass at one he's interested in?


My generic recommendations are just try to be light and fun in your convo. Be a bit irreverent. And don't agree with them on everything. Disagreements are always more fun, in a bar or club scene, and women like men who aren't just bobble head dolls. We know from here on this forum, that disagreements are probably more interesting, than just agreeing all the time. Although I was far form some type of stud or PUA type,, this always worked OK for me. May not work for everyone though. I think humour has universal appeal.

It's also easier to steer a conversation that way when you've shown your interest in some way. It's probably more difficult to steer a convo to a "I'm interested" mode if you're too polite and can't get away from discussing the weather, and/or are more prone to discussing splitting the atom, or other serious subjects. You mentioned something earlier about getting better results talking about taking care of your elderly parents vs. being shot at. Don't talk about caring for your elderly parents. Yes it demonstrates what a conscientious and noble son you are, but too much a downer. Talk about getting shot at. I would think that would be more interesting to be honest. The ol' "bullets vs bedpans" debate lol.

These comments are more aimed at the bar/club scene. At a library, or grocery store..well..more difficult because you just don't have a lot of time to talk. (Flirt with that cute cashier, and the grocery store gestapo will surely be called). If an OLD initial or especially a second date, though, easier to do.

And I will never get "negging." Maybe it's a generational thing. I guess it works on insecure women. Good natured teasing yes, that's works if in good taste, but really derogatory negging, no. If I PUA'd anyone in the past, it was a byproduct of all of the above, having fun, not something planned out and schemed.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 358
Wanking off costs less than dating
Posted: 7/16/2018 3:44:37 AM
" But if a guy's not getting rejected here and there, he's not trying hard enough in my view."


>>>reminds me of Stirling Moss (famous race car driver from the past) saying that if one didn't have an accident every now and then, they weren't exploring the limits of the car to win races. I wouldn't mind if my rejections were only "here and there" :) As for verbal annihilation, if you're a gent, then having it happen says more about the woman's character. I used to ask out a lot of women, most said they were complimented I walked up and asked, a few reacted badly, but I was doing the same thing both times, so....I would have to conclude the reaction was on their part, not mine. i'm the constant, they're the variable.

"My generic recommendations are just try to be light and fun in your convo. Be a bit irreverent. And don't agree with them on everything. Disagreements are always more fun, in a bar or club scene, and women like men who aren't just bobble head dolls. We know from here on this forum, that disagreements are probably more interesting, than just agreeing all the time."

>>>Being a fun guy can help a woman already interested, decide that the guy is worth taking a chance on--like Cindi Lauper said, gals just wanna have fun. As for disagreements, they do follow the formula of most "chick movies", boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back. PUA call it, "push pull", ironically. Or "cat string", that cats aren't interested in a string on the floor, but one they have to work to get. SOME people want a challenge, want a game, want to win when they date.

"These comments are more aimed at the bar/club scene. At a library, or grocery store..well..more difficult because you just don't have a lot of time to talk. "

>>>personally, I find a bar doesn't usually provide much time to talk, if the lady has other attentions. Make your first impression over the roar of the music, or she's going to have her friends or other guys to talk to. BUT, most people go to a bar to have fun, so that mindset is a factor in our favor. Everywhere else, people are there for a different reason. In a bar, they're just standing around all night.

negging used to be good natured teasing, building intimacy just like friends who know how to push what buttons. then it turned truly negative to work on insecure girls who wore their "i'm too hot for you" attitude proudly.of course, insecurity and that attitude tend to be found in young girls more than more mature women.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 359
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Posted: 7/16/2018 6:41:16 AM
Mustang:
As for verbal annihilation, if you're a gent, then having it happen says more about the woman's character. I used to ask out a lot of women, most said they were complimented I walked up and asked, a few reacted badly, but I was doing the same thing both times, so....I would have to conclude the reaction was on their part, not mine. i'm the constant, they're the variable.
My experiences at getting rejected by women have, for the most part, been pleasant. Most women don't wanna rub salt in the wound of rejection.


>>>Being a fun guy can help a woman already interested, decide that the guy is worth taking a chance on
You're dead wrong on this one. No matter what answer you get Mustang, you always come back with "this works if you're good looking." It's a default copout. If that's the case, then why even leave the house? I have a newsflash for you - having a good sense of humour - making a woman laugh and comfortable- is almost important as looks. Yes- probably easier for good looking men, I concur. But that means it shoudl be even MORE important for less than good looking men. I don't know what good it is to have all these woman platonic friends you claim to have, if they're not clueing you into this. That's why I think a man having women platonic friends as their main sounding board.... is kinda worthless (and even counter productive) for guys who are long-term struggling to get dates.

There are plenty of good looking men out there that are boring mopes - and have problems meeting women. COnversely, plenty of average men out there who have success because they have confidence and a sense of humour.


>>>personally, I find a bar doesn't usually provide much time to talk, if the lady has other attentions. Make your first impression over the roar of the music, or she's going to have her friends or other guys to talk to. BUT, most people go to a bar to have fun, so that mindset is a factor in our favor. Everywhere else, people are there for a different reason. In a bar, they're just standing around all night.
If it's a dance club or music club with dancing, you need to dance too. This is absolutely critical. Going to music clubs where there is dancing, and just standing around, with your thumb up your patootie, is kinda advertising yourself as Mr. Dud.


negging used to be good natured teasing, building intimacy just like friends who know how to push what buttons. then it turned truly negative to work on insecure girls who wore their "i'm too hot for you" attitude proudly.of course, insecurity and that attitude tend to be found in young girls more than more mature women.
I have no problems with teasing about silly things, but pushing sensitive buttons i.e. looks, weight, etc. etc. is being an @sshole in my book. I guess it works though in certain situations.
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