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Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 34
CourtshipPage 4 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
It's a case of cause and effect. When a man is coming on to me strongly and makes it apparent that he expects the relationship to become sexual before he knows my full name, it's a clear indication that he has no interest in long term.

If he's uninterested in a brick-wall gal who shows no personality for whatever reason (just her having a bad personality, her being anti-guy due to past experiences, whatever), he may just throw the deep ball and throw a sexual advance by way of thinking "I don't like brick-wall girls, but hey, why not? Lost cause at this point anyway." In other words, the brick wall can come before a guy does that and just be her persona, and he does that because she's a brick wall. There are guys of ALL varieties -- so if a gal runs into that too much, she's either targeting (is attracted to) the wrong type of guys, or she has a brick wall in the first place. But every guy and gal should expect a real weirdo in what you describe every once in a while given enough dating-scene experience.

I am financially independent and more sexually liberated, but that doesn't equate to the characteristics of a call girl.

Being open sexually is not the characteristics of a call girl. Being open sexually means one is willing (at least at the right time & person) to have sex before any 'relationship' is beginning or established or even possibly without expectations of one developing in certain situations. That's not a call girl. And it's not about YOU, but about women in general. How YOU are and what YOU expect doesn't change the nature of courting, dating, etc., in society. You may not LIKE it -- you may hiss and call 33%-50% of women out there call girls, but I'm just giving you the explanation. And plus, I wouldn't say it's fair to call a gal "sexually liberated" if she is disgusted at the thought of ever having sex on a casual under any non-relationship-to-be circumstance.

So you have just agreed with me. Many people/men don't want the relationship, they just want the benefits; FWB or FB .

No, I was saying there isn't COURTING involved. It isn't a guy trying to buy his way to a woman's heart and her being the judge and him being the contestant. That method is fine to some degree for a society where women for the most part don't work and make babies, and guys bring home the bacon. That changes when things are on an equal playing field -- no use for a guy to put on a dog & pony show to "prove himself". And due to being on an equal playing field, they're not into jumping into a relationship and may call things "just dating". It's just a different environment -- not totally FWB.

Maybe if they'd invest their time in pursuing quality relationships rather than jumping from bed to bed there wouldn't be as many brick walls.

Not everyone is in a situation to tend to the field of the dating scene to go relationship-hunting. Expect particular folks at certain stages to be celibate for say, 2-5 years? They'd be a called girl or jiggilo if they weren't?

Also, sure, people want to jump into relationships -- they are more apt to fall into a potential TRAP of a non-quality relationship, because they want to be in one. People tend to be wiser to not want to jump into one so readily and keep it on a casual level for at least a bit, notably with people busier nowadays, and things being more equal so there is more "window shopping" in this age of information.

How do these two people reach the point of discovering if they "REALLY" dig each other? By jumping into the sack with each other in the first 2-3 hours of their acquaintance?

Due to your past bad experiences, you're going B&W and turning non-fancy-aura-courtship with banging away with a random person in the bar bathroom as THE form of 'dating'. I'm saying that the old-school way of "courtship" is, for a very understandable reason, not much around anymore. Courtship is the guy proving-himself to a gal and trying to impress her to be an item. It's turned into an equal field, but no, that does not mean people just boink and hop from bed to bed.

Bottom line: If you're being thought of as a brick wall by a lot of people, that issue is yours, not guys. A brick wall is someone right off the bat, who isn't expressive about themselves and keeps their cards at bay too much (ie reporter-esque).

Saying that maybe if guys stop sleeping around with anything that moves or come on to women with an obnoxious sexual overtone, there wouldn't be brick-walled girls is funny (all guys are not like that). Reminds me of a gal who wrote in the forums about expecting guys to pay for everything on every date and to be taken to fancy places. Why? Because she had to support her ex-boyfriend and other guys (her past). Therefore, due to her past, she expects new guys to 'make up for it'. Talk about thinking the world revolves around them -- as if society has to come out to prove something to someone because they were involved in the bad side of things in the past!

Not tooo many women are brick-wall uptight ones -- they should just be tossed (bad personality and/or attitude underneath they have). When running into that type of gal, who is like that as her whole persona (not right after a horrid line was used), I'm sure guys will say and do things for last-ditch/why-not reasons because they see the situation as non-matching anyway... the type of guys you describe is a type of guy -- not all guys at all.
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 35
Posted: 10/11/2010 7:54:50 AM
To me, courtship is just a chance to show her a little about who I am and what I'm about. Basically just be myself and answer all her questions honestly, and ask some of my own.
Only difference is, once we're dating, we go dutch more often, while in courtship I pretty much pay.
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 36
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Posted: 10/11/2010 10:40:37 AM
Courtship is often seen today as rather a quaint notion that hearkens back to a slower pace, but for some folks the process suits them, because their comfort level is about taking things slower.

I see courtship merely as the expected 'hoop' that men needed to jump in order to get into the game. Further it was closely aligned with societal expectations about how 'respectable' men and women considering romance were supposed to act.

Now both sexes are equally able to enter into a relationship, dictated solely by terms that they agree on and on their own interest, and while there is some suggestion that women are considered loose if they avail themselves of an opportunity---it's not a permanently damning situation, because adherence to a widespread code of respectable dating behavior is not generally open or available for all to see.

It's more or less private so if one wants to act in a particular way now and again, they are able to do so without a community of people witnessing every step of it---not so true when courtship was an expected process a few decades ago.

This particular man's 'bait' is laying it out there rather quickly, and it doesn't jive with what you're about so therefore he comes across to you as being more crude and of more baser instincts. I suggest that those 'instincts' were there in courtship as well, but that societal pressures tamed their more 'overt' expressions....

I see that you'd personally prefer not see or perhaps acknowledge those 'intentions' at this early juncture, but for other women, some will find and appreciate his particular 'bait' inviting and to them-->game on.

This suggests that some people seem to want to match on 'styles' of engagement...but I do wonder, if it's merely about style? What if you find the guy impossibly attractive to you---would you even question the pace of how it was going if it were the same level of reciprocity were there?

Exterior concerns or 'flags' like this one seem to be only emerge, if one is generally disinterested anyway.

Otherwise I tend to think if you were both of the same mind and 'feeling it'... the keeping up appearances ..or following some sort of slow reveal for each and every dating partner (just because that's the way to do it...or the way courtship dictated it be done) would nowadays get kicked to the curb every once-in-while.

In some instances and with some people it's okay to get carried away...a bit dontcha think? jmo.

Joined: 5/8/2009
Msg: 37
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Posted: 1/27/2011 3:34:09 PM
You aren't wrong to want courtship. I had some guy IM me and try to show me his dangle bits. LOL!! I think a lot of guys have lost the idea of courting.
If you aren't comfortable with the conversation then you should say so. set your boundaries.
Joined: 5/8/2009
Msg: 38
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Posted: 1/27/2011 3:52:23 PM
I just want to tell you I agree with what you've said. I think some have lost that I want to get to know you and gone right to I want to sex you up. Then they wonder why they are alone at in their mid 40's.
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 39
Posted: 1/27/2011 10:21:45 PM
I rarely im and when I do it is almost always from someone that I have already emailed.
When one pops up and I do not know this person, I just don't get it.
I may look at their profile after, and write a note.
As far as courtship, this is just part of this drive up society where people expect immediate gratification.
Fortunately these type of people are very easy to spot.
If someone tries to make a move on me immediatly and it happens alot, I just clarify who I am and what I am looking for. If they continue than I will probably never see them again.

I am not afraid of telling someone that I am not the red cross relief stand.
I expect someones respect and courting, so I can make up my mind.
I have not met one person that was that hot, that I would take whatever I got from them.
Joined: 7/7/2010
Msg: 40
Posted: 2/11/2011 9:57:38 AM
A good foundation is built on the truth.
Joined: 7/15/2010
Msg: 41
Posted: 2/11/2011 10:52:54 PM
If a guy is asking you about sexual fantasies before he gets to know you as a person; then he is nothing more than a pig and has no respect for a woman.
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