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 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 26
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smoking bansPage 2 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
I don't think bans should be legislated. Leave it up to businesses to make those decisions for their own establishments. They will usually make the right decisions for their customers.

I have a hard time respecting smokers, and the habit is one of the dumbest things you can do in life. Fortunately, most smokers make some effort not to smoke in mixed company and will refrain from smoking in non-smokers' homes. I'm still willing to meet them halfway.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 27
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Posted: 4/16/2008 8:18:29 AM
it's what I call a liberal agenda. they start with smoking. then they go after trans fats. then the go after saturated fats. then the go after non organic foods. it will not stop. this is the beginning. the government has WAY too much power. WAY TOO MUCH. all the social political issues are a direct result of too much government. this is what really confuses me about liberals.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 28
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Posted: 4/16/2008 9:00:34 AM
These bans are a bit overdone. Yes you or I have the right to choose to not be exposed to something and sometimes that choice will mean NOT going somewhere rather than insisting everyone change to agree with us.
It should be upto the owner of the establishment with enforcement by actual cops coupled with large fines for the few rude individuals that will insist on lighting up in a non-smoking by owners choice establishment.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 29
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Posted: 4/16/2008 9:04:56 AM

and the habit is one of the dumbest things you can do in life.


One of? I'm a smoker and I will agree we can substitute in place of "one of the" with "THE".

I'm working on it.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 30
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smoking bans
Posted: 4/16/2008 11:26:50 AM
this coming from the person who claims that they own the air.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 31
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Posted: 4/16/2008 11:31:57 AM
Maybe the next President can appoint him Secretary of the Atmosphere.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 32
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Posted: 4/16/2008 11:35:41 AM
out of curiosity, how much was this air you purchased? I wonder where I can get some. how has the price of air done historically. I didn't think that liberals actually believed in owning stuff. I got bad news for ya, the only way you own air is if you own a scuba tank.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 33
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Posted: 4/16/2008 11:41:34 AM
I hope you're not talking about air, K-Lo. I think Sir Thomas Payne already laid claim to it. Wasn't it Payne that said "Give me MY liberty or give me death"?
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 34
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Posted: 4/16/2008 11:42:09 AM
nope, patrick henry.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 35
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Posted: 4/16/2008 11:44:12 AM
thomas paine wrote the age or reason, and common sense. they are sitting on my coffee table. remember, I am a founding fathers dork!
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 36
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Posted: 4/16/2008 11:50:53 AM
Man... I was WAY off!
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 37
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Posted: 4/16/2008 11:57:20 AM
it's cool itech, I am just a dork. my ipod is filled up with A&E biographies. sometimes when I get sick of music, I get a history lesson instead. the three most important people in the american revolution were:

the sword: george washington
the pen: thomas jefferson
the voice: patrick henry.

I also grew up in VA and have been to all three of these men's homes and graves.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 38
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Posted: 4/16/2008 12:19:30 PM
Will I have to pump my own air K-Lo?

That's cook that you've been to those places. I bet Monticello was cool.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 39
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Posted: 4/16/2008 12:37:40 PM

The air is mine, just as much as it is yours, but you knew that.


um, an easy way to say this would be that the air is "ours." you simply claimed the air was yours.


Scuba diver here for the last 31years,so I guess I do own some air. I’m not sure where you live, but where I’m from the air is free for the taking, come on up and get some if you want.


yes, the air is free here too, but when you call it "yours" one would assume that you are the only one entitled to it.


I can see how one like yourself would think this way, because when I didn’t know much, I thought the same way.


"when you didn't know much?" care to defend this? last time I checked, the liberal agenda was to raise taxes on anyone trying to get ahead. I said it last night, and I will say it again. the rich are rich, the rich are going to stay rich, under the current tax code, good luck getting rich. it just punishes anyone trying to get ahead in life and under liberal leadership, it's only going to get worse, and the power of government is only going to get worse. liberals believe that everything is a human right or an entitlement. we have people in prisons who have cable. I don't have cable. don't need it, don't have it. people on welfare have cellphones. I will rephrase what I said, it's not that liberals don't want people to have stuff, they just don't want someone having more than someone else. unless of course, you are the one who writes the laws. it's the golden rule brother, I thought you knew. the one with all the gold, makes all the rules.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 40
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Posted: 4/16/2008 12:46:32 PM
remember on space balls when mel brooks had cans of perri-air in his desk?
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 41
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Posted: 4/16/2008 12:59:27 PM
If there was really a great demand for non-smoking bars and restaurants, then all of them would have gone non-smoking years ago. Non-smokers would have been standing in line to get into them all this time.
But no, some non-smokers can't stand the idea that someone on the other side of town, in a bar they would never visit, might be smoking a cigarette.
Some non-smokers have no problem with destroying their brain cells with alcohol. Don't dare try to keep them from driving when everyone can see they're too drunk.
But damned, if someone on the other side of the room lights a cigarette.
Damned, if someone in an apartment, at the other end of the hall, smokes a cigarette.
If five people are standing in a hurricane, the one guy smoking is endangering the other four with his second hand smoke.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 42
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Posted: 4/16/2008 1:03:47 PM
It's been awhile since I've seen Spaceballs. I need to watch that again since my life has slowed down from the Ludicrous Speed lifestyle.

Apples and oranges? When you didn't know as much? I don't think we've come as far as we'd like to think. Tunnel vision is not a sign of enlightenment but rather the opposite.

Oh well, at least we were granted the use of air.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 43
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Posted: 4/16/2008 1:13:24 PM
my life has slowed down to a stand still. all I have to do now is wait to move!
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 44
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Posted: 4/16/2008 1:15:07 PM
That's where I'm at. Get my kids grown and then off to find the retirement community with the nicest Shuffleboard court.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 45
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Posted: 4/16/2008 1:36:38 PM
I have no kids, so I don't have to worry about that! oh crap, that means if I do have kids, I won't be able to slow down for 20 years. screw that. shuffleboard, or as you canadians know it, unfrozen curling!
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 46
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Posted: 4/16/2008 1:49:28 PM
I won't need shuffleboard at your brothel because there'll be other things to do like... ummm.... uhhhh.... there'll just be other things to do.
 jmarquise
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 47
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Posted: 4/16/2008 8:14:57 PM
why not have it done one by one and let the people speak. I don't have a problem with banning smoking in places. I would rather have it be the voice of the people though, not the voice of the government.
 PurpleCrayon~
Joined: 9/26/2007
Msg: 48
smoking bans
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:01:34 PM
Let the businesses decide.

How friggin hard is it for non smokers to go to places where smoking is not allowed.

Rights/Freedoms....one by one... are going
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 49
smoking bans
Posted: 4/17/2008 7:26:27 AM
I don't support bans- I've made a topic about it in the past, but it seems it's been removed because of inactivity.....

Here is the rant I started it out with......sorry in advance for the size....

------

I got to say, right off the bat- I cannot, with good and honest conscience, see how ANYONE can support a ban of smoking in Bars and Restaurants, while still claiming they believe in freedom. What you really must ask yourself, right here and now, is do you believe freedom and rights are all encompassing for all- that all people, be they man or woman, black or white, landowner or homeless- *deserve rights*- or, you must ask yourself, do you believe that some people deserve less or no rights, for such meaningless titles?

That’s what this law does- in our urges to save people from making bad choices- to free them from their complicated lives- we're actually denying landowners their rights- solely and entirely because they aren't doing what you what them to do with –their- property. In your rush to make the world a better place, you've stripped people of their rights- all the while, you retain your own. This isn't an issue of health, or common courtesy, or convenience- as wonderful as those goals are, freedom, liberty, rights- these things are far, far more important- if not for us, then for the following generations.

Did you ever think about the Restaurant or bar owner who welcomed the business of smokers? Obviously they existed, or else there would be no need for the law-What about THEIR rights? They pay for their property- they pay their taxes- and yet, you have passed a law stating they do not have the right to decide if people can smoke in their property or not? How can any rational person not be outraged by this? Would you not be outraged if the same law was passed against you? That, the smokers of Canada rose up and claimed discrimination, and forced you to accept smoke in YOUR property, least you be fined or arrested?

I suppose its wrong for your property rights to be restricted, but people who own stores- well, they can do with some less.

Can anyone within the sound of my voice tell me one- one good reason to support this law?

There always seems to be the health belief leading the pack- and its a decent belief, I'll give you that- smoking is a disgusting habit- one of whom I have not personally tried. I honestly cannot understand why anyone would like to smoke it, especially with the health risks- but should we really have the right to pass a law that basically turns cigarettes into scarlet letters? Because a person doesn't agree with our opinion? Shouldn't, as an adult, and with understanding of the risk they do to their body, shouldn't they have the right to put their health at risk if it makes them happy? And what kind of dangerous road are we traveling when anything that can be lead to unhealthiness can be legally ostracized or banned? Should we ban McDonald's from being sold, or even beef all together? Eating in excess, just like smoking in excess, can kill you. Or what about Cars- and oh, cars I find are the best example- Cars poison us far more than we give them credit- Cars spew pollution into the air, slowly ending each and every one of us lives prematurely- there’s no point denying it- Cars pollute- and London has it most of all, with some of the highest pollution in Ontario- You can sit in a room for a week brimming with second hand smoke with no real damage to yourself, except for an awful smell- you sit in a room brimming with car exhaust, you won't last an hour. Cars are, by far, much much more dangerous to our health and the health of everyone around us than second hand smoke- and yet, we ban smoking in bars and open up a Hummer Dealership.

Other than the fact that laws should not punish people for legal choices, why the hell should any of us have to pay for that? Why should I have to pay to protect people from bad choices? Why am I responsible in helping to pay to condemn people’s choices? What about personal responsibility? Not to sound callous, but if someone wants to take a risk, I shouldn't have to pay to be their safety net- they are grown adults- they should have to be responsible for their own well being- and if they choose not to be, I should not have be the responsible one. Instead, we pass a law- and laws are never enforced simply because they exist- we will all have to pay for this, from police raiding bars, looking for cigarettes, to the trials of the people who have enough love for freedom to risk their own for everyone’s- this will cost you and me money- money that could be better spent.

And then, of course, we have the argument about 'the other people'- that, if you go to a bar that allows smoking, you have to -*GASP*- tolerate second hand smoke. Seriously, I..... I simply do not understand this train of thought.....its borderline communism- from what I can grasp of this dissolving argument is that you believe you have the right to not have your airspace impaired in a bar or restaurant if you don't want it- a somewhat fair argument I suppose, although it ignores all known laws and rights we hold as Canadians, but what you must never, never forget is, if you don't like something at a Bar or Restaurant- *You-Can-Leave*. Say it with me now- *YOU-CAN-LEAVE* - its such an empowering sentence, so full of freedom, and respect.

You are not entitled as a Canadian with the right to enter any building you wish and demand how things should be run- if I were to enter a VH1 store, I don’t demand the music be turned down because it hurts my ears- I keep my ass outta VH1, and they suffer because they don’t have my Business. Likewise, if strippers offend you- do you demand The Rippers fire all their strippers, or do you stay out of the Rippers?

And that one, simple concept that, somehow, has been incomprehensible by those who support the ban on the grounds of other peoples health- that you are not *forced* to be there. No one is *forced* to be there. It’s a Choice. It’s a Restaurant. It’s a Bar. If you go there, you *CHOOSE* to be there. Not a single person I can imagine since the moment this country became free and offered its people rights, not once has anyone forced to go to a Restaurant or a Bar if they didn't want to. And, just like if you *choose* to put your health at risk by smoking a cigarette, if you choose to go to a Restaurant or Bar that allows it, you may also be putting your health at risk- if you don't want to, that’s great, wonderful, I completely support you- don't go back to that Restaurant, and tell all your friends about how terrible it was for you- with time, they'll loose business, and have to *choose* to go non-smoking or not. Just like you, they too should be responsible for their choices.

Equally this goes towards the workers arguments- they CHOOSE to work there- London has some excellent programs to help people find jobs, and the Human Resources of Canada Website has hundreds of requests for jobs in London on a weekly basis. The Government does NOT own the bar- they do not have the right to pass laws over them- nor does the Government own the job, so they do not have the right over it either.

Although I should take this point since, being the socialist country that we are, yes, we do have a universal healthcare system, and yes, this system does indeed mean we have to pay for the people who make bad choices through their health bill, I do agree- but then again, that would be an argument AGAINST the Federal Healthcare System- that the healthcare system protects people from the consequences of their actions.

Don't worry- we're almost done- just as a recap, lets review, since, sadly, we need a review on what is freedom. We've discovered that, yes, since a person owns a property, just like if you should have the right to decide if someone can or cannot smoke on your land, so should they. We've understood that, although smoking is undesirable, making a law against immoral things is, frankly, immoral, We've come to realize that, just as the Restaurant owner or Bar owner or even a smoker are responsible for their own actions, so are you- so if you choose to go somewhere you've deem unhealthy, you should have to own up to the consequences of your actions, and we've learned that its wrong to make the population pay to protect other people from their inability to act responsibly.

The last one of all is the most appalling- the last excuse for a law like this is *convenience*- that, because smokers choose to smoke in a building that chooses to allow it, and you don’t smoke, the smokers should have to leave because it inconveniences you- Which is, frankly, is insane- its not your property- you cannot demand other customers leave because you don’t want them there

Equally, the stance might be on convenience on the belief that, since all the non-smoking establishments are far away, it incontinences you, so you don’t have a choice. Once again, I don’t mean to be rude, but too bad. Life is hard- sometimes, the Eastside Mario’s is just too far away, or traffic’s too bad to get to Montana’s- Personally, I would love to have a Wendy’s burger right now- but just because I want it doesn’t mean I have the right to demand it. Equally, just because you want a non-smoking bar or restaurant, doesn’t mean you can demand the bar owner to obey your wish. You certainly do have power- you can REQUEST or talk to the owners, or you can tell you and your friends to no longer to there, tell them to tell everyone they know not to go there, and let the market decide for themselves- you can pressure people to change without forcing them

I have literally just stood here and explained why every concept and reason for this non-smoking law is wrong- and I’m not certain what is more awful- that people so cheerfully celebrate the stripping of other peoples freedoms, or that the good people of London- the people who see this as an attack against freedom- stand by and let it happen.

Yes, health, convenience, safety nets- these are noble and wonderful goals, I agree- but not more important than rights.

If you have, even an inkling of agreement with what I have to say- get your word out. Mail to the local papers; call your representatives, put up flyers on telephone poles, come down here to speakers corner- demand equal rights for all people.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 50
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Posted: 4/17/2008 8:20:16 AM

I'm not a smoker, and as I said personally I was in favor of the bans here (I have personal reasons which I don't want to go into here). But the price on cigs here is admittedly getting absurd. If they're going to ban it , everywhere except your home or car or on your own property basically, or 15 - 30 ft from any public doorways, etc, as it is here in IL, AND keep hiking the prices on them, then .... ? How much further does it have to go before they're practically (de facto) forcing ppl to start looking into quitting?


In your own home? Some places are already looking and making it illegal to smoke in your own home. If it is an apartment building, condo, townhouse, or if minors reside in the residence.

Force them to quit? Did America learn nothing from prohibition? Gangs and thugs will soon start running cheaper cigarettes from reserves, lower taxed states or hijacked semi'sloaded with tobacco. Then other taxes will have to go up to replace the voluntary "sin taxes" lost.
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