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 Sparkopassion
Joined: 11/23/2007
Msg: 1
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FreemasonsPage 2 of 2    (1, 2)
I understand the freemasons have their own version of the bible, i have seen the front cover of one with the set square and compass on it.

Can anyone confirm this, and how does it differ from the king james bible?
 Seavoyage
Joined: 1/18/2007
Msg: 2
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Posted: 4/18/2008 9:13:34 AM
First of all, the freemasons can use all kinds of religious books. In order to be a mason, you must have a belief in one God. So, a TORAH, New Testament, or a Quran can be used. The freemasons are often connected to those who fought in the Crusades that were known as the Knights Templar, the Wall of Solomon, Jewish mysticism etc... They do not have their own version of the Bible.
 Jacobus101
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 3
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Posted: 4/18/2008 1:36:17 PM
Seavoyage said:


First of all, the freemasons can use all kinds of religious books. In order to be a mason, you must have a belief in one God. So, a TORAH, New Testament, or a Quran can be used.


This is correct. At least officially, the one religious requirement that Masons require is to be a monotheist. Hence, some Lodges have Protestant Bibles on their altar, some have Hebrew Bibles, some have Qu'rans. Catholics are forbidden from becoming Masons per our own rule and for some historical reasons, which is one reason why we established the Knights of Columbus instead. Due to the French Revolution, the Lodges in France are allowed to be atheistic.
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 4
Freemasons
Posted: 4/18/2008 9:01:26 PM
Being a Freemason is not like being Catholic, Methodist, Mennonite, etc., you just have to have belief in a higher power and a few other things [my italics] to be accepted as an apprentice. Being a Freemason is a great group of men who help their communities . . . - just em

> And a few other things, eh?
> OK, let's look at one Freemason in particular. Not your Entered Apprentice or your lowly humble types, but William Jefferson Clinton (slippery 'Bill' of White House scandal). Bill just happens to be a Freemason.
> For a group of men - and especially one from the upper stratosphere of this outfit - who testify that they believe in God and hold the Holy Bible to be sacred, yadda yadda, why would Bill, as an example, lie to Congress, lie to the American people, lie to his wife, and lie to God - all under oath? This in respect to his adultery and fornication with Monica Lewinsky. You will remember that debacle?
> We can expect lies and fornication and adultery from the lower types, those pagans and non-Christian types that everybody avoids with their noses clipped as they pass them, but for someone like the American President, and a Freemason! Why, it's unheard of. It goes against everything they stand for. It is morally repugnant. And yet there you have it - lies, lies and "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." More lies - all under oath.
> Of course because of his so-called charisma, his devilishly cute smile, his smart suits and expensive wristwatch, his fancy lifestyle, his flash car, his money in the bank, and his political involvement, Bill is forgiven. All is well. All is well.
> Notice how even at the depths of the scandal, when the pressure upon him was boiling hot, the general public, faced with the facts of his adultery and fornication, thought he was a helluva guy. Interesting. No matter how low they get, no matter how vicious their behaviour, all is forgiven, all is blessed by the duped and ever-ignorant public.
> Good on ya, Bill. What was that Holy Book that you read again? And eh, what oaths do you take? And who, exactly, is your God? An 'architect'? He has a name, you know. It's in the Bible. Remember - that book you probably haven't dusted down in years and have no intention of picking up.
> Just as a footnote, Aleister Crowley, 'the wickedest man in the world', to use his own description, was a 33degree Freemason, a master Satanist, a man who taught his followers how to sacrifice human beings to lower entities.
> As for Freemasons not being Catholics, Methodists, Mennonites, etc. I would point out that Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a Freemason, as was his brother, Hyrum, as was Brigham Young, second leader of the Mormon cult, as was Sidney Rigdon, an early leader, as was Heber C. Kimball (who "wished that all men were Freemasons"), as was Father Francisco Calvo, Jesuit Catholic priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica, as was Geoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury 1945-1961, as was Norman Vincent Peale, another 33rd Degree Freemason, ex-Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of New York, Past Grand Prelate of the Knights Templar and Shriner.
> By the way, Just Em, I like your revealing photographs - especially the one in your close-to-the-bone bikini. You are like no Bible salesman I have ever seen. That is your profession, isn't it, the one you state in your profile?
> Best wishes - Soul Union.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 5
Freemasons
Posted: 4/18/2008 9:38:56 PM


Just as a footnote, Aleister Crowley, 'the wickedest man in the world', to use his own description, was a 33degree Freemason, a master Satanist, a man who taught his followers how to sacrifice human beings to lower entities.


Just as a footnote, this indictment of Crowley is total malarkey.

Regarding his connection with Freemasonry however, from the Grand Lodge of British Columbia's website, which has a section which deals with dispelling popular myths and anti-masonic propaganda:



Aleister Crowley and Freemasonry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aleister Crowley, a brilliant student of symbolism and ritual, had at least four major contacts with Freemasonry as a complete body.
In 1900, while in Mexico, Crowley became involved with a Supreme Council of the Ancient and Accepted (Scottish) Rite. This period of Central American Craft Freemasonry has been described as a chaotic mess; masonic bodies springing up and dissolving within a matter of days. Crowley was supposedly initiated into the 33° of the Ancient and Accepted Rite, thus obtaining the title of Grand Inspector General. This title is actually one of administrative rank, and not of ritual degree. The 33° is styled Sovereign Grand Inspector-General and is sparingly conferred by the Supreme Councils of the recognised jurisdictions. There does not appear to be any record of this conferment other than his claim made in The Confessions of Aleister Crowley.
In about 1904 Crowley was initiated into Craft Freemasonry in Anglo-Saxon Lodge No. 343, recognized, as of 1964, under the jurisdiction of the Grande Loge Nationale Française in Paris as No. 103. At the time it was under the jurisdiction of the Grande Loge de France, and so was not recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England as a regular masonic body. He was initiated, passed and raised over a period of several months in 1904. It is suggested but unconfirmed that he was proposed by a country parson from Oxfordshire.
Finally, at around the 1910 period, came Crowley’s episode with John Yarker. Yarker was initiated on October 25, 1854 in Liberty Lodge No. 189, was a frequent writer on masonic matters, was a member of Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076 (the premier lodge of masonic research), and had been involved, in 1871, with the setting up of a Grand Council in Manchester of the Ancient and Primitive Rite, a concatenation of the Ancient and Accepted, and the Rites of Memphis and Mizraim, chartered from the United States of America by Harry J. Seymour (these Egyptian rites were considered irregular by the Grand Orient of France, the first being labeled "dead" by Thevenot, the Grand Secretary of the Grand Orient of France, in a letter to the United Grand Lodge of England in 1872 and the latter being dissolved in 1817). This Grand Council was not recognised by the Supreme Council in Duke Street. St. James, who had expelled Yarker, established the Antient and Primitive Rite in Great Britain.
Towards the end of his life, Yarker was looking for someone to carry on the work of the A&P Rite in England, and decided on that person being Crowley. To this effect, he bestowed on Crowley, by post, the degrees of 33°, 90° and 95°; respectively, the Ancient and Accepted, Memphis and Mizraim. No evidence is available that the two ever met.
After Yarker’s death (which is reported in the Oriflamme, the then Ordo Templi Orientis newsletter, for 1913; and also marked by an obituary in Crowley’s publication, The Equinox), there was a meeting at Crowley’s apartment on the Fulham Road. H. Meyer was elected the new Grand Master General, and Crowley the Grand Administrator General, and also a Patriarch Grand Conservator, his status being elevated to 33°, 90° and 96°. Following this, Crowley did very little, if anything in relation to the Ancient and Primitive Rite, concentrating his "masonic" tendencies in the body of the Ordo Templi Orientis
In 1913, Crowley apparently wrote to the United Grand Lodge of England claiming his right to attend lodge meetings, and affiliate as a joining member. If any, the response would have been a rebuttal, due to the irregularity of his mother lodge. This correspondence is not extant; all that survives is Crowley’s draft, transcribed from shorthand and dated 1913.
The United Grand Lodge of England does not recognize Crowley as a member of the Craft. All his affiliations were with irregular bodies, and so they deny him recognition.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amended, with additional information, from a report by Matt D.A. Fletcher, London: 1994.
Further information
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1896/crowpage.html
Further reading:
Martin P. Starr, "Aleister Crowley: Freemason!" Ars Quatuor Coronatorum, Transactions of Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2078. Vol. 108, for the year 1995. ed. Robert A. Gilbert, P.M. Printed in Great Britain by Butler & Tanner Ltd.,: Frome and London. p. 150.



Regarding the charge of being a "master Satanist"... as if there is such a thing, Crowley would revel in the idea that gullible people would believe in the existence of such an office and hopefully pay him to be trained to one day occupy it, while others, like the poster being quoted will charge you money to find out how to avoid being stalked by one. Rubbish. If by "master Satanist" the poster means an occultist who believes differently than a Christian, then Crowley was and the world is replete with them - HEAD FER THE HILLS, MAW!

The last bit of nonsense, regarding human sacrifice, is the silliest bit of drivel, only propounded by the most ignorant, gullible and those so outside the loop of occult knowledge as to believe the most sensational of knowledge when the actually believe that Crowley literally meant that he sacrificed a child... oh man...it is to laugh.

Crowley is referring to something equally or perhaps even more repugnant to born-again Christian types...SEX MAGIC...Oh dear Lord Noooooo! And the death he refers to is "le petit mort" or the death of orgasm. Perhaps the propaganda was a preferable explanation to you Flanders types out there that like your enemies babies skulls dashed out on the stones, Old Testament style?

Tough darts.

Any more BS about the Masons anyone needs debunked?
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 6
Freemasons
Posted: 4/18/2008 9:45:43 PM
Just as a footnote, this indictment of Crowley is total malarkey. - TheMadFiddler

> Thanks, Fiddler. It's good to hear others' opinions.
> "In 1934, Crowley was declared bankrupt after losing a court case in which he sued the artist Nina Hamnett for calling him a black magician in her 1932 book, Laughing Torso. In addressing the jury, Mr Justice Swift said: 'I have been over forty years engaged in the administration of the law in one capacity or another. I thought that I knew of every conceivable form of wickedness. I thought that everything which was vicious and bad had been produced at one time or another before me. I have learnt in this case that we can always learn something more if we live long enough. I have never heard such dreadful, horrible, blasphemous and abominable stuff as that which has been produced by the man Crowley.'"
> I guess Justice Swift was reading too much into it. He really should have kept his feet on the ground.
> Best wishes - Soul Union.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 7
Freemasons
Posted: 4/18/2008 10:43:34 PM


> Thanks, Fiddler. It's good to hear others' opinions.
> "In 1934, Crowley was declared bankrupt after losing a court case in which he sued the artist Nina Hamnett for calling him a black magician in her 1932 book, Laughing Torso. In addressing the jury, Mr Justice Swift said: 'I have been over forty years engaged in the administration of the law in one capacity or another. I thought that I knew of every conceivable form of wickedness. I thought that everything which was vicious and bad had been produced at one time or another before me. I have learnt in this case that we can always learn something more if we live long enough. I have never heard such dreadful, horrible, blasphemous and abominable stuff as that which has been produced by the man Crowley.'"
> I guess Justice Swift was reading too much into it. He really should have kept his feet on the ground.
> Best wishes - Soul Union.


Uh huh. He should have. He also was evidently Victorian in his morality and can't be faulted for being a prudish member of the British upper class establishment...

However the Court of Appeal later agreed that even though there was not to be a new trial that Crowley was given a bum deal and likely would have won on appeal.

I assume that Justice Swift's opinion is being levered here as a legal expert...or perhaps a literary critic? Are you familiar with the logical fallacy of appeal to authority? It would be relevant here if the matter under discussion were a legal question...but of course the matter was one of "black magic" and frankly by any modern standard of jurisprudence, Crowley would have won a libel case handily.

Do you have any actual evidence of Crowley's practice of human sacrifice or exhortations to others to do so? I can answer for you - no you don't because it doesn't exist in any of his teachings. Period. That is not opinion, it is common knowledge to anyone who has read the man's works or has a library card. The characterization of the man as a "master Satanist" is opinion, which you are entitled to, no matter how baseless it may be, or founded in religious bigotry. Otherwise, Crowley should otherwise go down in history as a religious fringe figure, writer of mediocre and sometime scatalogical poetry and compared to Hitler or Idi Amin, hardly evil, wicked, or Satanic in any real sense.
 Sparkopassion
Joined: 11/23/2007
Msg: 8
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Posted: 5/5/2008 2:50:57 PM
Lol started off a whole debate about freemasonary now!

Well i know that a few presidents have been masons, and some prime ministers also, Winston Churchill was one.
 Sparkopassion
Joined: 11/23/2007
Msg: 9
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Posted: 5/5/2008 2:55:26 PM
I seem to remember Aleister Crowley worked for the british intelligence agency at some point, he is also appears on the front cover of the beatles sergent peppers lonely hearts band , if you look hard enough! very strange indeed........
 Jacobus101
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 10
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Posted: 5/7/2008 1:54:03 PM
Hey, whitegold765. Maybe I could help ya out there:


1. Freemasons are actually connected to the KKK.


No. I don't buy the belief that the Masons have existed as far back as King Solomon, but they're certainly older than the KKK. They might have origins in Scottish or English stonemasons' guilds. The "free" in Freemasons refers to those stonemasons who were not bound to any land by feudal law. They could travel and find work at will. The first Masonic records date to Scotland in the 1600's. Scottish-rite Masonry is probably the oldest form. The first Grand Lodge was built in 1717 in England. From there, Masonry spread to the American colonies and the rest of Europe.

The Masons/KKK connection MAY be based on how some 19th century Masons may have supported Nativist or Know-Nothing political ideas, such as anti-Irish or anti-Italian immigration, or anti-Catholicism. But that's about it.


2. Freemasons are part of some vast conspiracy


Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? Otherwise it wouldn't be a conspiracy, right?

Historically speaking, though, it's definitely true that Freemasons have been at the center of many national "conspiracies". I say this in the sense that many of the orchestrators of the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Mexican Revolution, and the Italian Revolution were Masons. It's arguable that 18th and 19th century Masonry was used as a kind of social club for bourgois lawyers, bankers, and wealthy but non-noble professionals (such as the American Founding Fathers) to plot against the existing ancien regime monarchies of the time. If you look at anti-monarchism and anti-clericalism as two common points of ideology between all of these groups and revolutions, it probably makes a lot more sense. These were men who felt that they, and not the royalty/aristocracy/clergy, should rule their respective countries. They may have felt that the Enlightenment rendered the old order obsolete.

I'm told that one of the higher degree ceremonies in Masonry involves stepping over a crown and a papal tiara to show that the member will trample over church and state. I can't verify that, though.

In America, a lot of what I described above is now taken absolutely for granted as part of "modern western thinking". That goes to show how successful the Masons in America were. But speaking as a Catholic and a monarchist, I respectfully disagree.



3. Freemasons have policies that forbid membership to blacks, etc


Not true today. Perhaps this was the case in the past. The two rules of membership in Lodges of the English-speaking world are that 1.) must be male and 2.) must believe in a God or higher power. That may be Christian, deist, Muslim, Jewish, perhaps even pagan depending on the individual group.

However, in the French Lodges and Lodges in the Latin world (Italy, Spain, Latin America), atheism is permitted. This reflects how revolutions in these parts of the world have always been much more anti-clerical and anti-religious, whereas America is known for being a "religious country" and the UK still has a state religion, the Church of England. When the Grand Oritent (grand lodge of France) declared atheism acceptable in 1877, there's been a schism between the English and Latin lodges ever since.


4. Freemasons swear loyalty to the organisation above all else


Maybe, maybe not. This was probably true in the past, at least, and is one of the reasons why Catholics are not allowed to join Masonry (our own rules, not the Lodge's).
 bubahotep2020
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 11
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Posted: 6/30/2008 8:40:03 PM
Free masonary is a nobel calling there are blacks, asians, whites you name it there are members in it. If I remember correctly there are lodges for each race dont know why iam not a mason. There are some large laodges in san diego that are all philipino who also happen to be prior military. I have several black friends who are members of the masons. So while the group you saw may have all been white, Masons come from all corners of the globe. If I remember correctly the book of law is the spiritual book of that country or what your faith is. So it could be a Quran, Bible, Torah or whatever.

I am very interested in joining it myself my grandfather is a master mason I havent worked up the nerve to ask him lol.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 12
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History
Freemasons
Posted: 10/26/2010 7:31:48 PM
Read The Masonic Myth by Jay Kinney. It's a well-researched book about the history of the Masons.

Modern freemasonry grew out of working masonry. During the Age of Enlightenment, masonic lodges (where itinerant masons stayed) became places where people discussed the ideas of the day. Non-masons began to participate in the discussions in these lodges and eventually it evolved into a brotherhood around the ideas, rather than the craft.

During the Middle Ages, masons were employed to build the great cathedrals. When one big project was done, they would move to another place. Skills were taught to apprentices and the knowledge was kept within the guild. Masons had signs which they would not reveal to non-masons so that, when you went to a new location, they had a way to identify that you were, in fact, a skilled mason and not someone who said they had skills that they didn't possess.

The tools and the skills of the masons, while being very practical, were also used to describe more spiritual or metaphysical concepts. For instance, Freemasons will say that when to masons come together, they should meet on the level (they are equals), interact plumb (straight up), and part square (everything okay).

Catholics are not allowed by the Catholic Church to become Masons. This goes way back to the origins of Freemasonry, but the Church frowned on allegiance to anyone but the Church and frowned on independent thinking.

If you have a curiosity about Masons, you really should read Jay's book. He describes their rituals and symbols, the myths they tell themselves about their own history, their structure, etc. It's fascinating.

BTW, the Freemasons claim ancestry in ancient Egypt but there is no historical evidence. The oldest known lodge of modern Freemasonry (as opposed to working masons who built cathedrals, etc.) started in England and I want to say it was in the early 1700s but I won't swear to it.

There is no connection between the KKK and Freemasons. I imagine that there have been members of the KKK who were also Masons but there have, I'm sure, been members of the KKK who have been Boy Scouts. The KKK started in the American south. Freemasonry started in Scotland and England.

There are black Masons and black lodges. I think that is a more modern development.


<div class='quote'>I'm told that one of the higher degree ceremonies in Masonry involves stepping over a crown and a papal tiara to show that the member will trample over church and state. I can't verify that, though.

Not true. There's a lot of rumors about the Masons that are not true.


The original organization was put in place to fight the Pope and Rome.

Not true. It grew out of actual working Masons, whose lodges became places of philosophical discussion, during the Age of Enlightenment.

The fezes - those are Shriners, a particular branch of the Masons. There were some who wanted a more lighthearted and less serious branch of Masons and they started the Shriners. The Masons like to think of themselves as going back to Egypt (they don't) and adopted quirky symbols and dress that they thought reflected that.

Really, read Kinney's book. It tells all about this stuff. It's a fascinating read. There's a lot of bad information about the Masons out there. He researched it very carefully and has tried to be very fair in his portrayal of them.
 FatherOf2_1970
Joined: 10/6/2017
Msg: 13
Freemasons
Posted: 3/26/2018 2:39:18 AM
Freemasonry is not a religion in itself and is NOT a replacement for a man's faith or church of his desire. He must only believe in one God as the sole creator. He can be any form of Christian, he can be Jewish, he can even be Muslim even though freemasonry is built around Christianity using the King James Bible. In fact, they encourage members to continue following their faith outside of the lodge.
 FatherOf2_1970
Joined: 10/6/2017
Msg: 14
Freemasons
Posted: 3/26/2018 2:47:30 AM
To be one, one must only ask one...... you'd be surprised, once you start asking, just how many masons are already in your life.
 2WheelinDad
Joined: 5/11/2018
Msg: 15
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Posted: 9/23/2018 2:31:47 AM
Bill Clinton was NOT a Freemason...he was in the Order of DeMolay as a CHILD......DeMolay is a masonic appendant body for youth.
 2WheelinDad
Joined: 5/11/2018
Msg: 16
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History
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Posted: 9/23/2018 2:43:48 AM
1. Freemasons are actually connected to the KKK........ WRONG, while there may have been a few freemasons within the KKK, the two organizations are NOT connected. While Freemasons do our best to keep the bad apples out, unfortunately there are bad apples in all groups.

2. Freemasons are part of some vast conspiracy....... VERY WRONG, conspiracies are usually based partly on a truth while the unknown is filled in be person believing in it. People fear the unknown so they usually come to some scary conclusion within their own minds.

3. Freemasons have policies that forbid membership to blacks, etc.....ABSOLUTELY WRONG.....men of all and any race are welcome to join any lodge and would be welcomed by the brethren.

4. Freemasons swear loyalty to the organisation above all else.... again, ABSOLUTELY WRONG..... we are taught from the beginning that our masonic duties shall NOT interfere with our family, our faith, or our careers. This is something we are firm on.
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