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Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 4
Mentally retarded story??? opinions?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
OPie ~~ I think it can work a number of different ways. . . . I have a friend who was born crippled, and in pain. Pain that lasted the whole of her life. Her wish was that she had been aborted, and NOT asked to live the life she was asked to live. On the other hand, mental retardation (learning disability, as we call it now), is relatively painless, and prolly not unpleasant for most (autism would not seem to fit this, but certainly Down's syndrome would).

I, personally, think that abortion should be available for those that wish it, and for those who don't wish it, then they should not be forced to use it.

Live. Let live.

Works for me.
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 6
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Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 4/19/2008 8:05:10 PM
There are so many things you don't know about this. I think you can be open to the experience as a possiblity instead of being afraid of it. Often we see another's suffering and use it as an excuse to not really live. Don't let your fears of what might happen stop you from living in the world as it is. There are many calamities that can affect a life beside the severe illness of a loved one. That is the risk we all take in loving.

C. S. Lewis:

”To love at all is to be vulnerable.
Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung
And possibly broken.

If you want to make sure of keeping it intact,
You must give your heart to no one, not even an animal.
Wrap it careful round with hobbies and little luxuries;
Avoid all entanglements;
Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness.

But in that casket–safe dark, motionless, airless–it will change.
It will not be broken;
It will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable…
The only place outside of Heaven
Where you can be perfectly safe from all dangers of love is

"If I had known my heart would break, I would have loved you anyway."

I can tell you that this experience is not all bad in that I have lived it. But that in itself may not soothe your worries. There are many things to learn and grow from in loving a child that is disabled in some way. In fact, this can expand your capacity to love and be loved and change how you view love altogether.

You are right that the birth of a disabled child is a life-changing event. It is how the parents react to it that makes all the difference.
Joined: 5/12/2007
Msg: 7
Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 4/19/2008 8:24:17 PM
OP ... Amniocentesis as well as ultrasound can be used to detect genetic and congenital abnormalities of fetuses.
How do you know that this person was born this way ?
An inadequate supply of oxygen during the birthing process can leave a newborn brain damaged.

A baby can also enter this world perfectly normal and healthy and contract a disease at some point in it's life that forever alters their mental capacity.

Accidents happen.
In the blink of an eye, a child can be struck down by a vehicle or fall down a flight of stairs, and their life and the lives of those around them is irrevocably changed. Does this mean that their parents will love them any less ?

Once you have a child of your own and experience the intensity of love and bonding that takes place, you may have a different view.

Any parent whose child has ever been in a precarious health situation would readily give their life for the life of their child without a second thought .
Obviously, the majority of the times this is not an option.
In some cases, like the one you witnessed in the coffee shop that day, these parents have done just that.
I am sure as hard as what it is on them at times, they would not trade their freedom for their son.

Parenthood, as with all things in life, offers no guarantees.
Sometimes you simply have to deal with the hand you are dealt.
You make a choice and you live with those choices
This couple may consider themselves to be the luckiest people on earth to be the parents of this boy.
It's all in your perspective.
When you are on the outside looking in, you have no way of knowing how another is feeling or thinking.
What you may view as a burden, they may see as a privilege.

You don't know how much richer their lives are for having been entrusted with a 'special' child.

I say God bless them !!!
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 9
Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 4/19/2008 11:33:15 PM
Limestone, I think it's not going to be a problem. With all the stuff "industries" are putting into the air, the water, the earth, our food both deliberately and via packaging, we're heading for a species die-out pretty soon. Looked at the fall off in male fertility rates in the past fifty years? We persist in believing that voting doesn't count, that our leaders can hand the resources of any country over to their friends and backers, and we just keep watching "survivor" as if it were a television show. . . .

Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 17
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Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 4/20/2008 8:44:59 AM
in my spiritual system, the universe selects certain souls to have life experiences where they have particular challenges. these can include retardation, blindness and a host of other things we call disabilities.

but what actually happens is that these people have a job to do. and they have the best possible body and brain with which to do that job. they may have to learn something at a soul level. or they may have to teach something.

in any case, god (or whatever you choose to call the energy in charge) has his/her/their own reasons for these people to have these experiences.

the rest of us need to practice gratitude.
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 26
Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 4/20/2008 7:11:11 PM
Well, some people aren't meant to have handicapped kids. I would be one of those, not that it's ever come up. But I bet if you ask the parents, they know they have a hard life, but love their son, anyway. In the olden days, the docs would quietly allow the babies to die if they were somehow "defective" (conjoined, Down's, whatever) and would just tell the family that the baby died. Now the docs don't have that option, and I agree with OP, it sucks for the rents.
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 28
Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 4/20/2008 8:06:40 PM

Wooby: Just to clarify "mental retardation" and "learning disabilities" are not the same thing. Learning disabilities can be something that just affects a person's ability to read something the way others do, such as dyslexia. Many people with learning disabilities live perfectly normal lives.

Technically, you're absolutely right. I was more going by my daughter-in-law's mother's version. My DIL has an IQ of 79. According to her mother, she has "learning disabilities."

This is what the Wikipedia has to say on the sujbect:

The term "retardation" was originally a euphemism to replace previous designations such as "idiot", imbecile," and "moron", which were originally scientific terms that acquired pejorative connotations in popular discourse over time. The term "mental retardation" has itself now acquired pejorative and shameful connotations over the last few decades due to the euphemism treadmill, leading to still further euphemisms such as "mentally handicapped" or "special".

* In North America the broad term developmental delay has become an increasingly preferred synonym by many parents and direct support professionals. Elsewhere, however, developmental delay is generally used to imply that appropriate intervention will improve or completely eliminate the condition, allowing for "catching up." Importantly, this term carries the emotionally powerful idea that the individual's current difficulties are likely to be temporary.
* Developmental disability is preferred by most physicians, but can also refer to any other physical or psychiatric delay, such as delayed puberty.
* The phrase intellectual disability is increasingly being used as a synonym for people with significantly below-average IQ.[1] These terms are sometimes used as a means of separating general intellectual limitations from specific, limited deficits as well as indicating that it is not an emotional or psychological disability. Intellectual disability is also used to describe the outcome of traumatic brain injury or lead poisoning or dementing conditions such as Alzheimer's disease. It is not specific to congenital conditions like Down syndrome.

The American Association on Mental Retardation continued to use the term mental retardation until 2006.[2] In June 2006 its members voted to change the name of the organisation to the "American Association on Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities," rejecting the options to become the AAID or AADD. Part of the rationale for the double name was that many members worked with people with pervasive developmental disorders, most of whom are not mentally retarded.[3]

Joined: 10/3/2006
Msg: 31
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Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 4/21/2008 8:46:33 AM

My main issue is.... if we can (and as some here have pointed out, you can never be 100% sure) tell before birth that a child is going to be born with a disability that will result in them needing 24 hour care for the rest of their life.... would you choose to abort if abortion was still an option at that stage of the pregnancy? I personally would.


Technically speaking, choosing to abort would never be YOUR option. It would be the option of the woman carrying your child. If the doctor came to you both with this news, and she said she wanted to keep the child, what would you do then? Would you provide for the child financially, but turn your back emotionally?

Truth is, you can't see into the future and say for sure that you would handle a situation in exactly that way. Sometimes you don't know 100% what you will do until it's actually presented to you. One thing I've learned along the bumpy road that is life is to never say never.
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 60
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Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 4/25/2008 1:06:34 PM

in circumstances such as the one mentioned above, (if possible) i would opt for an abortion.. and think it's the only decent thing to do in such a circumstance. I don't think it would be morally wrong. (I'm an atheist anyway and actually I only believe in the sanctity of life if there is some kind, even small a measure of quality) I think that an abortion in those cases, it would spare other people's lives. (the parents)

That sentiment fits well with the Nazi agenda: do away with all "defectives."

Famous people with autism:

* Jane Austen, 1775-1817, English novelist, author of Pride and Prejudice (see above)
* Béla Bartók, 1881-1945, Hungarian composer
* Ludwig van Beethoven, 1770-1827, German/Viennese composer
* AMENDED Alexander Graham Bell, 1847-1922, Scottish/Canadian/American inventor of the telephone
* Anton Bruckner, 1824-1896, Austrian composer
* Henry Cavendish, 1731-1810, English/French scientist, discovered the composition of air and water
* Emily****nson, 1830-1886, US poet
* Thomas Edison, 1847-1931, US inventor
* Albert Einstein, 1879-1955, German/American theoretical physicist
* Henry Ford, 1863-1947, US industrialist
* Kaspar Hauser, c1812-1833, German foundling, portrayed in a film by Werner Herzog
* Oliver Heaviside, 1850-1925, English physicist
* Thomas Jefferson, 1743-1826, US politician
* NEW Carl Jung, 1875-1961, Swiss psychoanalyst
* Franz Kafka, 1883-1924, Czech writer
* Wasily Kandinsky, 1866-1944, Russian/French painter
* H P Lovecraft, 1890-1937, US writer
* Ludwig II, 1845-1886, King of Bavaria
* Charles Rennie Mackintosh, 1868-1928, Scottish architect and designer
* NEW Gustav Mahler, 1860-1911, Czech/Austrian composer
* Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 1756-1791, Austrian composer
* Isaac Newton, 1642-1727, English mathematician and physicist
* Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900, German philosopher
* Bertrand Russell, 1872-1970, British logician
* George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950, Irish playwright, writer of Pygmalion (see above), critic and Socialist
* Richard Strauss, 1864-1949, German composer
* Nikola Tesla, 1856-1943, Serbian/American scientist, engineer, inventor of electric motors
* Henry Thoreau, 1817-1862, US writer
* Alan Turing, 1912-1954, English mathematician, computer scientist and cryptographer
* Mark Twain, 1835-1910, US humorist
* Vincent Van Gogh, 1853-1890, Dutch painter
* Ludwig Wittgenstein, 1889-1951, Viennese/English logician and philosopher

Historical people prominent in the late twentieth century (died after 1975)

* Isaac Asimov, 1920-1992, Russian/US writer on science and of science fiction, author of Bicentennial Man (see above)
* Hans Asperger, 1906-1980, Austrian paediatric doctor after whom Asperger's Syndrom is named
* John Denver, 1943-1997, US musician
* Glenn Gould, 1932-1982, Canadian pianist
* Jim Henson, 1936-1990, creator of the Muppets, US puppeteer, writer, producer, director, composer
* Alfred Hitchcock, 1899-1980, English/American film director
* NEARLY NEW Howard Hughes, 1905-1976, US billionaire
* Andy Kaufman, 1949-1984, US comedian, subject of the film Man on the Moon
* L S Lowry, 1887-1976, English painter of "matchstick men"
* Charles Schulz, 1922-2000, US cartoonist and creator of Peanuts and Charlie Brown
* Andy Warhol, 1928-1987, US artist

Contemporary famous people

* Woody Allen, 1935-, US comedian, actor, writer, director, producer, jazz clarinettist
* Tony Benn, 1925-, English Labour politician
* Bob Dylan, 1941-, US singer-songwriter
* Joseph Erber, 1985-, young English composer/musician who has Asperger's Syndrome, subject of a BBC TV documentary
* Bobby Fischer, 1943-, US chess champion
* Bill Gates, 1955-, US global monopolist
* Genie, 1957-?, US "wild child" (see also L'Enfant Sauvage, Victor, above)
* Crispin Glover, 1964-, US actor
* Al Gore, 1948-, former US Vice President and presidential candidate
* Jeff Greenfield, 1943-, US political analyst/speechwriter, a political wonk
* David Helfgott, 1947-, Australian pianist, subject of the film Shine
* Michael Jackson, 1958-, US singer
* Garrison Keillor, 1942-, US writer, humorist and host of Prairie Home Companion
* Kevin Mitnick, 1963-, US "hacker"
* John Motson, 1945-, English sports commentator
* NEW John Nash, 1928-, US mathematician (portrayed by Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind, USA 2001)
* Keith Olbermann, 1959-, US sportscaster
* Michael Palin, 1943-, English comedian and presenter
* Keanu Reeves, 1964-, Lebanese/Canadian/US actor
* Oliver Sacks, 1933-, UK/US neurologist, author of The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat and Awakenings
* James Taylor, 1948-, US singer/songwriter

My, wouldn't the world have been a better place without all these "defective" people?

OP does have a point. Some people shouldn't be parents. Ever.
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 66
Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 5/24/2009 8:43:58 AM
OP ... Amniocentesis as well as ultrasound can be used to detect genetic and congenital abnormalities of fetuses.

While these tests can be used to detect abnormalities, they are not 100% positive. More often than not, they return with percentages, none of which are all that accurate. If you want percentages on whether or not your child is going to be disabled, then I can give you those, and I'm not even a doctor.

When a woman is pregnant and knows the child will be born with a handicap, this is a decision that is a very personal one for the parents.

However, the woman can never know 100% if the child is going to be born witha disability. Besides, according to most research, 75% - 100% of all people will experience a disability in their lifetime.

So for anyone who thinks that we should abort anyone who has the possibility of having a disability, I think I just justified genocide of the entire human race for you.
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 74
Mentally retarded story??? opinions?
Posted: 5/25/2009 11:15:08 PM
op, if you dont have kids, you can have no way of knowing yet, just how incredibly strong , the bond with a child doesnt matter what the problems are, they are still your kids!

parents had to take him to the toilet... pretty much walk him everywhere.. (He was not in a wheelchair), they had to feed him etc etc etc

as for the above, yes, i would go with him to the toilet too, kids like this are very vulnerable, he may be able to toilet himself, but not deal with the people he may meet in there, as far as feeding him, sometimes people with disabilities are not very tidy eaters, and parents often find it draws less attention if they help.

don't know how early in a pregnancy it is possible to tell whether a new baby will be born mentally retarded. There must be tests that are done that can tell...

there are many, many things that cant be detected before birth, regardless of ethics/personal feelings etc, and of course the many things that can happen after, caused by illness, accident and so on.
even small a measure of quality) I think that an abortion in those cases, it would spare other people's lives. (the parents)
quality of life is definitely in the eye of the beholder....what you or i might consider quality is in no way the definitive measure.......and so many parents i talk to , who have profoundly disabled kids, wouldnt change them for the world
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