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Show ALL Forums  > Sex and Dating  > Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?      Home login  
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 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 51
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Mr. Caps-LockPage 3 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
It's so sad to see yet another male warped and brainwashed be years of feminist rhetoric to the point where he would actually say this laughable situation could actually be anything close to rape. Stopping right away DOES take a few seconds. Even if you did it as fast as you could it would be a few seconds. This is just another tool for women to have complete control and destructive power over men. The evil that was perpetrated against this boy was disgusting and sick plain and simple. No excuse for it. This girl obviously wasn't traumatized and the two people were familiar in this case. With any luck karma will catch up with this very dangerous, cold and manipulative girl.
 bobsolid
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 52
Mr. Caps-Lock
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:32:53 AM
now im not going to go back and quote everything, lotta pages. and yes i did read them all. yes no means no at anytime during the act. not after the act. if youve had consensual sex, finished, rolled over and lit a smoke, sorry but it is too late to withdraw consent no matter how much you may regret it in hindsight.but what some people are not seeing in this, over and over, is reaction time. EVERYTHING you do takes a certain amount of time. im not arguing the points of this case, i wasnt there, and most if not all of you werent either. the fact is everything anyone does takes time for the message to translate to action. if you are in midstroke, and she says stop, and in the time it took you to react and withdraw, im sorry, thats not rape. hold something in your hand, drop it, and catch it out of the air, having the foresight to know you have to react, it still takes time to catch it. add in the lack of foresight of a consensual act ,that in my experiance tends to be very distracting, having permission suddenly withdrawn, and now its taking a few seconds from "stop" to "stopped" did you ignore her wishes? no. was it rape? no.
 night501
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 53
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Mr. Caps-Lock
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:53:24 AM
Ok just spent forever reading all 7 pages of posts.
First let me just state that i have not,and will not condone rape.

Now let me bring up this fact.
In the court transcripts the(alleged) victim stated that boy #2 was ATTEMPTING penetration with her concent. When he was UNABLE to penetrate he was hurting her so she told him to stop. then for the next 5 seconds he continued to ATTEMPT to penetrate her.
Im not saying that his actions where the right ones but,when the term "rape" is used, some criminal codes explicitly consider most kinds of sexual activity to be rape when performed out of wedlock, whereas in others only acts involving penis penetration of the vagina. If he was ATTEMPTING to penetrate then obviously he was unable. Now this brings up questions in the back of my mind. How long had he been trying before she said to stop? I dont know about you but if I was having problems getting it in I might be a little preoccupied with the problem at hand. Hell i might even have to say "Im sorry, what did you say?"Depending on certain variables like mental fatigue, background noise,and over all mental state at the time it might take me 5 seconds to register that she said anything at all let alone stop what im doing and back away.
I just did a search on verifying the credibility of rape victims and found out that even in the most extreme cases such things as polygraphs and brain mapping using an mri where never even concitered, and in some cases the victim down right refused . The court systems apparently dont care if the victim is lying anymore, they are of the mind that "Ohh, this person said that it happened so it must have."
i have come to the conclusion that lady justice isnt just blind but deaf, mute, and mentally handicapped.





Gideon Quoted [I would rather be single and celibate until the woman that wants to submit and be a part of me comes along ]

I don't doubt you will be single and celibate for the rest of your life with that bad attitude of all women. Or maybe if you hate women that much, become gay


lady thats the most scence you have made this whole thread.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 54
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Mr. Caps-Lock
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:35:31 AM
Zach: Actually you just showed that "media brainwashing" again with the cliche
"woman hater" comment that people have been conditioned to use when anyone contests ANYTHING wrong that a woman does. This is usually used to deflect the issue and instill guilt in the man for having an opinion. Luckily I have no problem seeing right through this. So sad. I am in no way a woman hater and I think disgusting women like the one involved in this court case are an insult to women who have actually been raped and abused. I believe in true equality between the sexes but unfortunately, one always seems to be trying to control the other in our society. It's obvious to anyone who isn't blind that the majority of laws involving abuse, divorce, and custody situations have been influenced and strong armed by extreme feminist views which have seeped into the system and poisoned it. To not see this is ridiculous.
Men are usually treated very unfairly in most of these cases. The fact that a jury did what they did to this kid just shows how controlled and narrow minded most men's thinking has become. According to some scientists, men will actually be eliminated from society all together with women being able to reproduce without them and all babies being born as female. This is the end result of extreme feminism that has taken hold of our society. Feminism usually isn't about equality but dominence. I don't believe one sex should have more rights or more control than the other and as it stands neither sex seems to believe in having that at this point.
 night501
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 55
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Mr. Caps-Lock
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:42:42 PM
Wait lol... you came to that conclusion based on this one case!? Or is that the culmination of your life experience with the justice system? hehe.


i actually have a good bit of experience with the justice system. this case was just the icing on the cake. about 5 years ago a good friend of mine started going to therapy and it turns out that her father used to molest her and her sisters, but since it happened over 15 years earlier the statute of limitations in my state prohibited him from being prosecuted. thats just the first bit of experience i have with the justice system.

2 years ago my cousin was convicted of armed robery of a convenience store. when he provided documentation that proved that he wasnt even in the state at the time the judge actually called him a lier in court. he spent 6 months in county lockup before the case was appealed and he was released. he didnt even get an apology. in fact the judge said thatwith the evidence that the court held he still felt that my cousin had something to do with the inccident. the only evidence that the court had was a positive identification by an elderly woman that my cousins lawyer found out had rather severe cateracts (sp?).
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 56
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Mr. Caps-Lock
Posted: 4/29/2008 8:54:56 PM
sam: I totally agree. I think I said in an earlier post that any judge that would be part of this should be up on charges themselves because it obviously isn't safe to have such a biased person on the bench.
 pearlj
Joined: 3/1/2007
Msg: 57
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/29/2008 11:42:18 PM
Im not understanding why the first kid got 18 months if intercourse was consensual with him? This doesnt seem very well thought out....honestly it seems like the poster heard something vaguely similar to this but in their self righteous rage embellished, or that the poster simply misunderstood......I would give an opinion, but not on a "case" where the facts seem warped, also what "other crimes" was the second boy convicted of? Also the woman was a community college student, and the boys were in highschool, what were the ages of these kids? Why did the female acquiesce to the second kid? It didnt seem like she was too eager, but when I was a teenager I would have kicked some serious A$$! had any guy assumed that I would be interested in a gang banging lol. Just trying to point out some indescrepencies...and also a few judgments despite my best effort lol......
 CandiPants
Joined: 4/18/2008
Msg: 58
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/30/2008 3:15:10 AM

Some men are mean in bed, some lack total affection, some are in the act only for themselves and use the woman as some sort of blow up doll ... what women wants to take this mentality any further as it isn't humor it's cruel.


ok...now I don't know the whole story to this case, but if what the original poster says is true, then in this particular situation, I think you need'nt feel so exasperated that these 2 guys treated ( or tried to treat) this women "like a blow up doll"
Here is this chic ready and willing to have sex with the both of them...how much respect was she really expecting to get from them? Not exactly a princess here.
Also many posters seem prepared to grab their torches and burn this kid at the stake. Lets stay focused folks. It was 5 seconds. Also, we are not aware of all the little details. Did she yell out no? or was it more of a breathy whisper? Did she say "maybe we shouldn't do this...pause pause pause...lets not....pause pause....I SAID NO!! I SAID NO 5 SECONDS AGO AND U DIDN'T STOP!!

Also, i have (thankfully) never had the horrible experience of being raped, but I believe I can tell u with all conviction, that after the deed finished, giving the man that just raped me my phone number would not be on my top 10 things to do after being raped list. (original post claims that is what happened)
So, you ask "what woman" wants tobe treated like a blow up doll? Ever heard the saying....if it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.....
I feel this woman maybe had some fantasies to play out and then realized (as most of us do) that fantasies of this nature are usually better left in your head... they never go as good as what you think they will. So she lost interest and had to keep her "I am not a ditch pig" rep untarnished.... hmmm...what shall I do....I KNOW !!! I'm gonna play the rape card!!

One last thing...to the ladies...how many of you, in your life, have ever been in a sexual situation with a man where the man has said "stop" at some point during the act....for whatever reason..maybe someone is in the other room, he's gonna be late for work, he's on the phone with his mum, he has reached that "point of no return" stage,,,,whatever...
Now how many of you have actually stopped.... IMMEDIATELY....not I....sadly i cannot think of one time i have stopped when requested... not right away anyways...damn...happy to not be a man...i would be considered a serial rapist by this time! "Jill the Ripper"
LOL
 pearlj
Joined: 3/1/2007
Msg: 59
Mr. Caps-Lock
Posted: 4/30/2008 10:30:16 PM
"according to science" what "science" lol, you're paranoid, why are you so threatened and scared of "women taking over the world? Ridiculous, and hugely amusing
 Kiss_My_Karma~
Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 60
Mr. Caps-Lock
Posted: 6/25/2008 9:54:02 PM

Anyways to all the men here who worry about this. There's an obvious solution to not having your rights taken away. RECORD EVERYTHING. HIDE CAMERAS AROUND THE HOUSE. ALWAYS CARRY A SMALL CAMERA WITH YOU.


Oh yes that's an excellent solution. How about instead just don't have sex with strangers who might be crazy? And if you do, here's a hint. When they say ow, no, stop, don't, please get off me, maybe listen?
 Kiss_My_Karma~
Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 61
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/26/2008 3:57:58 AM

So this would allow women to have their orgasm and then say out just to piss you off?

People don't do that. And if they do, again, I say don't sleep with crazy people.


How the hell can you justify taking consent in the middle of intercourse.

At any point in the act if either party feels uncomfortable with something their partner has said or done, taking back consent is justified. Imagine for a moment things were getting a little wild, anything goes, and your girl said 'just a sec I'll be right back...close your eyes'...and then surprised you with a strap on with such force that you had no means of pushing her (or him I guess) off your back and wham you're sodomized. Can you imagine it then? Now imagine you are telling said partner "ouch get the heck off me with that thing" and she says "it doesn't hurt, I'm not hurting you....shhhh....I'm almost done...." hard for a man who is physically stronger than a woman to understand, I know, but that would be a good example of you feeling trapped. Probably not the best example, but it's about all I can come up with.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 62
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/26/2008 5:28:19 AM
He didn't jump on her without consent or start having sex without consent. I'm also pretty sure that having vaginal sex cannot be compared with anal sex as far as discomfort is concerned. These points make no sense. Also not all women are "weaker" than men. There are LOTS of women that are probably on par with me or stronger so that's a ridiculously poor excuse in a lot of situations. Not every guy looks like Andre the giant.
 SpiceyCougar
Joined: 4/29/2008
Msg: 63
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:43:25 AM

And I suppose you think it's not childish for a woman to get you started then change her mind? Seems to me, you guys are too busy worrying about the woman's feelings, and ignoring your own.


And you wonder why you are single...
 Kiss_My_Karma~
Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 64
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:48:15 AM

He didn't jump on her without consent or start having sex without consent.
That was not my point, when I was addressing duke.


I'm also pretty sure that having vaginal sex cannot be compared with anal sex as far as discomfort is concerned.
Since you don't have a vagina, you cannot speak to what levels of discomfort can be experienced therein.


These points make no sense.
They're posted to provide a scenario, to the person I was addressing, as to when would be a plausible time to withdraw consent.


Also not all women are "weaker" than men. There are LOTS of women that are probably on par with me or stronger so that's a ridiculously poor excuse in a lot of situations. Not every guy looks like Andre the giant.
And not all people, men or women, go into a sexual act thinking they're going to have to spar. You have your opinion, I have mine. Someone on the last page (a man I believe) totally disagreed and said the weakest man is still stronger than any female. It's all relative I suppose.
 Kiss_My_Karma~
Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 65
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:40:11 AM
^^ You are a frightening individual.


 SomethingManly
Joined: 4/18/2008
Msg: 66
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/26/2008 3:58:49 PM

Something is missing from the story that we aren't reading IMO.


^^^ What he said.

I don't think i honestly believe the original post, if that's all there is to it. There is no way we're getting the whole picture here. People tend to exaggerate and omit certain stuff to make it a juicier story.

If the guy got 15 years of jail, then there must be more to it...let alone the first guy getting anything at all...IF the first post is accurate.
 lastbat13
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 67
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/26/2008 10:48:14 PM

i like to think of myself as a right on feminist... but in this instance i would say that this is a waste of court time and a travesty of justice... two lives wrecked for no good reason...


This case is a travesty. I seem to recall another similar case earlier this year where the judge held that a few seconds is reasonable for the message to get across and the man to withdraw. That I can agree with. I'll stop if asked, but if we're into it you might have to give me a couple seconds to register it and make with the stopping.
 dave2slc1
Joined: 5/25/2008
Msg: 68
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/26/2008 11:55:28 PM
If she consents and changes her mind, he obviously wasn't doing it right. I have no sympathy for him.
 Vyper®
Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 69
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/27/2008 2:22:40 AM
Seafood,

There's no need to ponder whether the original post was suspect or tailored to make the story "juicy." I included links in the OP (and in follow-up posts) to articles reporting the case, as well as transcripts of the trial opinion, including the victim's own testimony and that of one of her assailants. Collectively, they should provide adequate fodder from which you can assemble the "whole" picture.
 SomethingManly
Joined: 4/18/2008
Msg: 70
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:33:22 AM

Seafood,

There's no need to ponder whether the original post was suspect or tailored to make the story "juicy." I included links in the OP (and in follow-up posts) to articles reporting the case, as well as transcripts of the trial opinion, including the victim's own testimony and that of one of her assailants. Collectively, they should provide adequate fodder from which you can assemble the "whole" picture.


Sorry OP, i just saw the links you are talking about. And it's wayyyy to long for me to read all of those....lol.

The bits i read seems to indicate a very screwed up case. From what i read, it's a he said/she said case. But there might be more to it in the parts i didn't read.
 Vyper®
Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 71
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:08:58 PM
On first thrust she is in pain so she said stop. He keeps coming at her and she is pushing against him fighting to get him off. 5 seconds can feel like an eternity when you have no control of the situation and there is a man thrusting inside you against your will. Yeah, I could understand the conviction of rape.


Interestingly enough, the defendant in this case states that he did not hear the woman say "stop." How might that affect your determination of whether or not rape occurred? That is, "If she consents and then withdraws her consent, but he doesn't hear her, is it rape?"

According to the court, the two parties tell substantially the same story of the sequence of the events, though they differ in some critical respects.

Like an earlier poster noted, the case sounds like a "he said/she said" -matter. I posted earlier the material substance of her testimony. I am posting below the material substance of his (from a different court document than that sourcing her statement).



Q. When you got in the car, what, if anything, did you
say or do?
A. I asked her if she was going to let me have sex with
her.
Q. What exactly did you say?
A. I said, “Are you going to let me hit that?”
Q. And what does that mean to you, “Can I hit that?”
A. Have sex.
Q. What, if anything, did she say?
A. She said yes, as long as I stop when she says to.
And then I said, “I’m not going to rape you.”
Q. Did you feel that was permission?
A. Yeah, I thought that that was permission.
Q. Why did you say “I don’t want to rape you”?
A. Just to, because she said, “Stop when I say to,” just
to tell her that. It’s kind of like to confirm the
permission.
Appellant took out a condom and put it on. Jewel laid down on
the back seat. Appellant placed himself between her legs and tried
to put his penis in. He testified that the following occurred:
Q. What did you do with your penis?
A. I tried to put it in.
Q. Do you know where it was touching or what happened to
it?
A. No. After I tried to put it in once, it wouldn’t go
in. I didn’t feel nothing there.
Q. What happened? What did she say or do?
A. And then she sat up. She was like, “It’s not going
to go in,” and that’s when, after she sat up and said
“It’s not going to go in,” that’s when I took off the
condom and I put it in my pocket and then knocked on the
window for Michael to come in.
Q. Who said, “It’s not going to go in?” You or her?
A. She did.
Q. When she sat up, what did that mean to you?
A. That meant stop.
Q. Did she say “Stop”?
A. No, she didn’t. She just sat up.
Q. And you took that to mean stop?
A. Yeah.
Q. When she sat up, did you try to put it in again?
A. No, I didn’t.
According to appellant, he stopped immediately and never
ejaculated when the complainant sat up.
According to appellant, after Mike drove Jewel’s car back to
McDonald’s, she gave appellant her telephone number and hugged Mike
as she got out of the car.


http://www.courts.state.md.us/opinions/cosa/2006/225s05.pdf

Clearly, the woman either: (1)told the defendant to "stop," and he took some five seconds or so to comply; (2)told the defendant to "stop," though he did not hear her, stopping only after she "sat up," effectively precluding his efforts to continue to try to penetrate her; or (3)never said "stop," leaving the defendant to conclude that she was effectively withdrawing consent by sitting up.


Is this rape? And, if so, what punishment might be appropriate (assuming you disagree with the 15-year sentence he received)?
 connie_e
Joined: 4/18/2008
Msg: 72
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:12:54 PM
I have to agree with rentahusband!
5seconds isnt very long and maybe he didnt hear her.
Why did she give him her number and a ride home.
It suspicous to me.........
 YoureInMyDNA
Joined: 4/20/2014
Msg: 73
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 5/26/2014 3:21:52 PM
The answer to this question is very simple... When a woman says stop, you must stop!!!
 LoneScottishBoy
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 74
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 5/27/2014 9:17:48 AM
"No" means No. Stop.Right now.
"Stop" means Stop it. Right now!
"You're hurting me" means Stop. Right now!

It's not rocket science guys.
Its respect and common decency.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 75
Damn straight
Posted: 5/27/2014 9:29:31 AM
1)If someone was doing something to a guy that hurt, and he asked 'em to stop...he'd be pissed if they refused to listen.

2)if someone who's crazy asks you to paint their house, and then tells you they don't have the $$...do you stop?
If someone who may be a little bit off asks to drive you to a great nightclub, and then mentions their car is in poor shape, you'll need to buy the gas and pay for any other bills....do you stop?

I could go on, but the point is, no sex is ever good enough to erase a lifetime of arrest record. Stop out of respect, or stop to CYA. have enough respect for your own self to tie a knot in it. maybe she's nuts, maybe she's a CT, maybe she's in her right mind and you're in your little mind. there's every reason to stop, and no good reasons to keep going.

Of course, if you're too plastered to even put on a condom, you're likely not in your right mind to begin with, but that's another reason to watch your booze, and that's a topic for another time.
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