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 HarDayKnight
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 275
is it rape if...Page 17 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)

"Convincing" someone is not the same as convincing someone. Even I got that.
I think he means "convincing" as in forcing someone to accept....



Coercion maybe?
 Cynderella
Joined: 3/8/2007
Msg: 278
view profile
History
is it rape if...
Posted: 11/21/2008 8:52:30 PM

Get a clue people


I need a clue...!

Is it rape...?

Yes if you said No and No if you took part.
 namrael
Joined: 8/10/2008
Msg: 282
is it rape if...
Posted: 11/22/2008 5:19:47 AM
m_church, thank you for that. I am truly boggled by the amount of people who are blaming the victim in this instance, and it's nice to see something well-researched.
 SAIUN
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 284
is it rape if...
Posted: 11/22/2008 5:56:28 AM

She still has the right to go about her life as she sees fit. She should not have to modify her behaviour to protect herself from being raped, no more than she should have to modify her clothing style, or the colour of her underwear, or even whether or not to wear it, to protect against rape... The Onus is not on her.... To imply differently would mean that anyone who is mugged, is at fault for carrying money, or being perceived to carry money by dressing well etc...

And I should be able to drop the soap in prison in front of Bubba without being raped. But it's not gonna happen, is it?

Seriously, to use your mugging example: This isn't a case of someone just having money and being mugged. This is a case of someone taking the money out of their purse, putting it on the table and then turning their back. Stealing is still wrong and a crime, and they certainly shouldn't be stolen from, but that sort of behaviour is more likely to result in money being stolen from you than if you otherwise didn't do it.

Life is full of compromises. We curb our behaviour in certain ways because we know the ill that can come from it.
 catkin2007
Joined: 12/18/2007
Msg: 295
is it rape if...
Posted: 11/24/2008 2:47:58 PM
Sorry, but this is clearly a lack in judgment on your part, and not rape. You don't even have the excuse of the date rape drug either. People who have been slipped a date rape drug do not make the choice to just simply "go with it."

Seems you have yourself in these situations often. You are seeking attention in unhealthy ways. One day you are really going to find yourself in a situation you WON'T want to post in the forums. You need to get help for this behavior.
 yummycarmen2
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 297
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/2/2008 3:11:37 PM
"So let's look at it another way...
Your boss offers you a drink... do you refuse? I've had drinks with both male and female bosses, likeable and dislikeable.... never had a problem....

That one drink now renders you unable to think clearly...
Yet it makes you thirsty too... nausea... take another sip....
You've barely finished it, and you feel woozy.... At the same time, your thought processes are confused... You're unable to connect individual concepts...
You're still thirsty... Need a drink...
Also the drug has started making you unable to resist or refuse... disorientation is setting in... Did you say "No"? Or just think you said it? You try to form a plan to leave, what plan? Why? What....... ? ? ? ? ? ?

This can all happen in under 10 minutes...."

M-church's interpretation is very accurate to my memory of what happened. Add in extreme muscle sedation and laziness, inability to hang onto a thought long enough to process or act on it before it quickly disappears, extreme disorientation, dizziness, confusion, anxiety thoughts disintegrated before I could understand or register from my black, empty mind...pacifyed, euphoric, sociable, trusting... add to all of this constant aggressive verbal manipulation and coercion from a slimy control freak ***hole who absolutely won't let up or take "no" for an answer (when I was actually able to verbalize coherent thoughts before and sometime between beginning of and half way through first drink).
 SylvanSwan
Joined: 8/5/2008
Msg: 310
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/4/2008 1:54:33 PM
You said it loud and clear: If you hadn't been intoxicated then you would have made a different decision.
This kinda reminds me of the Danny Heatley accident in which his best friend was killed. He had been drinking but wasn't impaired, it was an accident. I don't think you can say that in your case....
 MOTORCYCLEMAN4U
Joined: 2/12/2008
Msg: 311
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/4/2008 10:57:32 PM
People change their minds. You evidently didn't say no the whole time by going home with him in my opinnion you consented to go to bed with him. If you are a lightweight you should have not kept drinking take some responsibility in this too. This guy is a creep and probably deserves to get his a55 kicked. When it was all said and done you went there with him consider it a hard lesson learned. I hate jerks like this no wonder woman like to men bash. If you are going to get plastered stay home or take a sober person to babysit you.
 yummycarmen2
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 312
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/5/2008 7:04:33 AM
"Have you ever had a woman who was at least half a foot taller than you and stronger than you pursue you incessently after you'd told her no? Do you get groped by strangers every other time you go to a club? Have you been sexually harassed by strangers on the street regularly since you were about 12 years old? Have you had many random people call you names like "****" or "cunt" or argue with you for 10 minutes when you wouldn't agree to a date with them or wouldn't put out? (Any I left out, ladies?) If not, please STFU. "

I think this brings up an important and maybe even larger issue as well...from the time we are little, society teaches us that persistance is rewarded, and if you fail, keep trying until you do succeed. While the logic behind this is often beneficial when applied to things like career and athletic success, when applied to this instance of pursuing someone for sex when it has been made clear they are NOT interested, it becomes a very grey and dangerous area...
 yummycarmen2
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 316
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/5/2008 2:33:48 PM
highlander 5:

Hmmm, that is interesting...you yourself were almost raped when someone put GHB in your drink, and I suspect that it was GHB or possibly Rohypnol that was put in my drink...but you were almost raped and I wasn't? Double standard, indeed...By the way, it sounds like you had a very high dose put in yours, I don't suspect mine was as high but combined with the alcohol, my smaller body size, and extreme coercion, it did the trick.

Let's point out another obvious statement you made - "too drunk to think properly"...hmmm...that sounds like diminished capacity as nola chick (an ex-cop, by the way) pointed out earlier...

Final points: this was not at a club, this was at work. And yes, if a "fat woman" as you put it pressured you and pressured you and pressured you, wouldn't take no for an answer (which you told to her several times through words and action which she ignored even as she began stripping you after following you to the bathroom when you were in no state of mind to give legal consent), and very possibly was that way because she had spiked your drink with GHB or something else, then yes, she would have been raping you.

The biggest argument I have heard from you (and most of the others that have crucifyed me on this site) is that men are victims because they wanted to get laid and proceeded to do so by fair means or foul, and are now pouting because they got their pee-pees slapped. My body is my body, just as yours is yours, and we both have the right to not be violated by someone else.
 mell861
Joined: 6/11/2006
Msg: 317
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/5/2008 2:52:39 PM
for all you idiots that said no...how could you, i'm not claiming that sugar baby is innocent in this but even before anything started to happen she said no, as well as after 1 drink she was feeling odd...sounds like date rape drug to me (YEAH I SAID "RAPE"). I am very much into crime shows I admit they are not always truthful but I also know someone who was at a party slept with a girl, girl claims rape, only remembers his face but rape kit says more than 1 sexual incounter that night. Not saying the guy was innocent or guilty but his DNA was in there and there was brusing on her so he went to jail. Now the question would be was there enough evidence...or how bout resonable doubt?Dang somewhat off topic.
anyways...
IMO she said no no matter if she adventually went along with it, it is still rape...and I know cause it happened to me, mind you I was quite young at the time an dindn't really know what happened, but I had said no and for that reason he went to jail...I went along with it but never said yes.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 320
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/5/2008 5:01:04 PM

Yeah, but since she was intoxicated it became rape anyway. Consent while intoxicated is not consent under the law.


So if a woman and I have been drinking and she initiates a sexual encounter, I can file rape charges against her because I didn't legally consent?
 yummycarmen2
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 322
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/5/2008 5:29:14 PM
to highlander 5:

If you are as knowledgeable as you claim, I would like to know where you got your info so I can check it myself. But when less than half a drink hits me that hard, that soon, in that fashion, in a way that alcohol has NEVER hit me before, I believe I am perfectly justified in my suspicion of being drugged. But drugged or not, the mere fact that he ignored "no" and used pressure and coercion, whether intoxicants were present or not, are indications that he is a rapist. Many people can't seem to see the forest for the trees, the mere fact I mentioned alcohol and/or drugs seems to be too distracting for some people to recognize a crime took place.

You bring up a valid point of how is the guy to know how drunk the chick is if he's been drinking himself. The way I see it, is by being aware that by choosing to drink, you are also choosing the possibility that poor choices can be made which you will later have to accept responsibility for. If that poor choice includes committing an illegal act, whether on purpose, by accident, or through ignorance, you should still have to face the consequences for committing the crime. And before you say it, yes, I chose to drink and I accept responsibility for that decision and am working really hard on accepting the consequences of that decision. The difference, however, is that I DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE RAPED, I DID NOT RAPE ANYONE WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE, AND PART OF MY "BEHAVING RESPONSIBLY" INCLUDES BEING EXTREMELY CAREFUL HOW MUCH I HAVE TO DRINK AND NOT DRINKING IN AN OUT-OF-CONTROL JACK-ASS FASHION. And you should ask yourself - how many people go out and intoxicate themselves, commit an illegal act, then use it as an excuse that "it's not their fault, they were drunk", knowing full well beforehand that that behavior is not acceptable or legal.

My goal is not to character-assassinate men and blame them for all drinking-related faux pas. My goal is to discuss this, including preventative measures that go beyond the "watch your drink" to basic human nature, for example, accepting that eye contact from a girl and interest in what your saying doesn't necessarily mean sexual interest, understanding and accepting "NO" the first time instead of persisting until you "win". Things like that. I like to think that a decent person, when he/she has knowledge, makes better choices. A piece of shit will only ever serve his/her own needs.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 323
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/5/2008 6:31:16 PM

You "could" file a rape charge in a lot of circumstances. I don't think "could" is the word you're going for. Whether the court would convict her depends firstly on what state you live in, and secondly on the court.


I did mean ``could.'' If a law stipulates that being drunk implies lack of consent, then for the law to not have a built in sexual bias, the only factor that can distinguish between the rapist and the victim, if both are drunk, is who initiates the encounter, since consent is then required by the other person for the encounter. Technically, that means if any two people have sex while drunk, one is a rapist and the other was raped.
 SAIUN
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 325
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/6/2008 5:01:28 AM
Women invented Kevlar to protect men.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 LaFets
Joined: 6/9/2008
Msg: 326
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/6/2008 7:12:54 AM

We live in a country where women have built a culture of victimization...why take responsibility when you can blame a man.



For hundreds perhaps thousands of years men have controlled and dominated and held women back to preserve their status quo. For a long time women were not allowed to own property, or contribute to society. In many cultures still, women are considered to be property, not equals. In less enlightened parts of the world this still goes on. Look at the Middle East, Afghanistan and places like that.
In Europe and North America, Men have had the right to vote for hundreds of years. Yet women were not allowed to vote until the 18th and 18th centuries.
Patriarchal religions, and fundamentalist movements, whether Christian, Jewish, Hindu or Islamic, advocate the repression of women.
Women are repressed by males domination and exploitation of women's sexuality. Rape is a threat men can and do use against women that women cannot respond in kind to.
Women bring life in to the world. We are your mothers and sisters yet you treat us as less than you. Yet without us, you wouldn't exist as we wouldn't exist wthout you.
Perhaps this country, and society might be far more advanced and comfortable if men had the balls to work with women instead of trying to put them down.
So I ask you in return, why can't you take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming a woman?
 LaFets
Joined: 6/9/2008
Msg: 327
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/6/2008 7:20:08 AM

So if a woman and I have been drinking and she initiates a sexual encounter, I can file rape charges against her because I didn't legally consent?

Yes, you can, and you should. It's no different than men who file charges of physical abuse against women. At one time men were too proud or too embarassed to do so, but it's becoming more accepted.
Rape or sexual assault may not mean actual penetration in all jurisdictions and it can include all forms of non-consensual sexual activity.
There's little difference if a woman forcibly shoves a strap-on dildo up a guy's rectum than a man forcibly sodomizing a woman. The act is still rape.
 LaFets
Joined: 6/9/2008
Msg: 328
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/6/2008 7:26:01 AM

GHB at any level will make you forget everything immediately when you drink it. I'm 240 lbs. and I was out with one sip. I seriously doubt you were drugged.

Drugs, even GHB will impact people differently. If someone has a high tolerance for depressants he or she might not experience the same effects as you.
If you're not used to drinking or drugs it will hit you a lot harder than somoene who is used to drinking. The same as two people who drink together, one gets a slight buzz on a six pack, the other is rolling drunk stupid.
 xXLosingFaithXx
Joined: 7/13/2005
Msg: 331
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/6/2008 4:06:28 PM
As a victim of rape I would say no in this circumstance.

I was in a SOMEWHAT similar circumstance about 2 years ago. I was at a bar with a friend on her birthday. We were drinking and shooting pool. Hot guy hit on me...we flirted, etc. It got late and my friend wanted to go home, so I took her home and went back to the bar. That was my mistake, and I take full responsibility for that. I wasn't drunk when i left the bar, so i wasn't when i came back. However, after my first drink after arriving BACK to the bar I blacked out. I remember very little about the rest of the night. And when I woke up in a cheap hotel room the next morning I knew what had happened.

I battle with with myself whether on not this was rape. The fact that I do not conciously remember making the decision to sleep with him maked me believe it was rape.

Either way, I have learned from it, and you should learn from this situation. Don't go to bars alone. If you're being pursued by someone you do not want to sleep with...LEAVE. It's pretty simple. Be smart. Make wise decisions. And good luck in your future quests for love.

Audrey
 sickcity
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 336
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/8/2008 5:41:33 PM

5. Shocked, in disbelief, mentally very confused. Attempt one more time to leave. He starts kissing you, and you at this point are SO drunk, you just go with it.


i do believe 'just go with it' signifies a conscious decision. so no, silly. rape is being held down while you kick and scream.
 yummycarmen2
Joined: 9/5/2008
Msg: 338
is it rape if...
Posted: 12/27/2008 3:46:41 PM
yes, you must have missed a post. happened at work, someone else in the same building across the hall with the door open when i came to speak to my boss at his office, also his living quarters.
 Hdleader
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 340
is it rape if...
Posted: 2/25/2009 5:18:41 PM

In the US, it is illegal to have sex with a woman who is too intoxicated to say no, which is clearly what happened here. It fits the legal definition of rape. How you feel about that definition is irrelevant; the fact of the matter is that it's rape, period. Further, it sounds likely that there may have been drugging involved, which compounds the issue.


So its illegal to have sex with a drunk girl because she's drunk. Then since he was drunk as well, hasn't then, by law, she also raped him?

Just saying
 liliginger
Joined: 1/3/2009
Msg: 341
is it rape if...
Posted: 2/25/2009 9:06:36 PM
of course it's rape...


No means no,
maybe...
not now...
I don't think so...
leave me alone...
later...
I'll think about it... MEANS NO!!!

Only yes, means yes. Think about it, what if this was your daughter?

lili
 Redneckblkguy
Joined: 9/22/2008
Msg: 343
is it rape if...
Posted: 3/9/2009 4:04:08 PM
You put your self in that position but in the end no means no.
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