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 AUTHOR
 Soorare
Joined: 5/3/2008
Msg: 54
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.Page 2 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
This is a tough situation to answer, & here is my humble advice:
The original poster has to realize that Christ brought the message of self-Actualization, not pointless suffering, even if many Christian faiths get this wrong.


The Vedas state” Until one sees the need to act, no need exists”. The OP now sees a need to act. Muster your resources, dear, & move on.

Moving on may be the catalyst that finally changes your husband’s views, drives, & allows him to impose self-control.

By staying, you are certainly wrecking one life -yours. Consider the chances that you MAY BE WRECKING TWO LIVES- his chances to change- & yours. Twenty years of staying has not helped.

You may have to change Churches, draw on resources such as Women in Need, & m most importantly, get you healthy before dating again.
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 55
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:24:38 PM
14me24u....
If anyone is the hypocrite here, it is you. You are very hard on me to the point of being very ignorant.
I have been where OP has been...PLUS more. I have been dirt poor in my life.
Lol...dirt poor meaning my mother and us 3 kids lived in a shack 250 sq.ft big with a dirt floor before she got desperate enough to marry my stepfather.
Hard on my mother? Yes...I was. I had no respect for her. How could I when she treated that man like he was a king while he molested and abused her children? Why do you think I said that sentence back a few posts ago about kids respecting the parent who deserves respect? It's very true.
I am so lucky that my kids who are now 29 and 31 are so fabulous to me. They were a delight to raise throughout their teenage years. Their father and I split when they were 12 and 14. I raised them on love, respect, hard work, dignity, honour and being there when they needed me. I put my love life on hold until I was established and they were safe. That was my legacy to my babies after what my mother did to hers.
Later, years later, my mother and I discussed that situation. I wanted to hear her say she was sorry. Do you know what I heard? Something similar to what OP's opening post was. Now I just have pity for her. Respect? No.
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 56
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:33:12 PM
wishes granted....
People have been driven to drink if they can't handle a situation in which they are trapped into. Your spouse having absolute contempt for you is one reason men will drink. OP sure doesn't go gentle about her family, does she? I'd love to be a fly on the wall there.
You go to an Alanon meeting and see what conditions lead people to drink...or keep drinking. It's a real eye-opener.
Please know what you are talking about before you diss someone who's been there.
As for the writer of Msg #54. Well...he went off and decided he was going to be protective of her. That's enabling. Pure and simple.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 58
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:58:10 PM
Wallflower... I do know of what I speak. And one of alanon's main teachings is it Is Not our Fault that They Drink.. It is Only Our Fault that we Enable Them To Continue .. If you don't/can't leave, then Alanon will teach you how to stay and live a life you can tolerate without enabling.. And my mistake I meant Msg. 64 NOT 54 Msg 64 It is good compasionate advise .

Without airing my "dirty laundry" in a public forum I Can say.. I had nothing but compassionate, supportive friends who did not judge me or blame me... Believe me, that helps. Your post was not compassionate or friendly and It Was Not constructive.

There are many good posts with lots of constructive advise without being cruel.. Op, I suggest you heed them.. and take action to make things better for you and your children. Change is scarey.. we all acknowledge that. You sound like you've hit rock bottom.. time for a LIFE change... not just a change of men... be brave!
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 59
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:15:25 PM
Wishes...
Message #64 by Ace of Space is very good. I applaud him.
I have been down this bumpy road of life a time or two or three, four or five. One of the things that sometimes brought me to my senses was tough talking by some very caring friends and my tough talking to them when they needed it. I have close darling friends that have been there for me and I for them for over 40 years.
If my tough talking to OP got to you and made her and you and whoever else sit up and take notice about how dangerous her frame of mind was drifting to, then I did what I was supposed to.
That is constructive.....not pretty...but constructive.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 60
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:27:25 PM
I agree Nick..
@ Wallflower: You can be tough in your love all you want... but if like you say, you've been through it.. then blaming her for his drinking.. makes it even crueller than what I first imagined. You made me take notice alright.. but it isn't anything that I would ponder other than how it put me and has put the op on the defensive. Displaying tough love to someone who trusts and you trust and knows you is one thing.. To do it with a total stranger is fruitless. IMO of course.
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 62
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:45:48 PM
Of course, you are going to do what you wanted to do in the first place. Your last sentence in the opening post says it all.
"Any ideas? Anyone in the same situation? Pls respond, I want to see that I am not alone!"

You were not asking for advice.

You wanted people to belong in your headspace. To justify your actions.
People who sympathised with you.
Question: After all of these replies, what exactly are you going to do?
If you are still going to go trolling for men on dating sites, stay in that marriage for financial reasons, verbally slay your family, endanger your girl, and take no responsibility for your life, then I rest my case.
I had you pegged from the get go.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 63
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:49:57 PM
@ supertacu I trust you will consider some of the good advice you have been given supertacu.. Your's and your daughters (happy) life does depend on you taking some positive action. (active on a dating site wouldn't be a positive for any of you.. you do concede this, right?) Your son's are nearly grown.. with some semblance of sanity in their lives... there may still be hope for them as well.
Wallflower may have had you pegged... but she certainly didn't make you see the light with her cruelity either.. your last post proved that. What DO you plan to do now op?
 Soorare
Joined: 5/3/2008
Msg: 64
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:39:35 PM
There appears to be a lot of 'claw sharpening" in this thread tonight,& hopefully, a few posters feel a degree of shame>>>

The original poster is looking for the 'best way out'. Even intelligent people stay in marriages for too long, & the call of love & duty is a difficult bond to break...

May I suggest that we all now read F Scott Fitzgeralds' classic semi autobiographical novel,
'Tender is the Night'

Then pass judgement?
 ther_mal
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 65
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:04:36 PM
you know i stick to my post about everybody having an opinion.

**opinions are like an ass.. everybody has one. some not as great as others and always full of shit! ** WALLFLOWER PROVES MY POINT.
married people issue holy ? why is it such a big issue that married people come here . the are others here who put not single nit looking and come for the frums or the chat. if a married person wants to cheat i highly doubt that blocking them from pof is going to stop them from doing it. got an issue ...heres a tissue!
supertacu your in a very delicate situation. i know been there. before you do anything you will wake up and regret, think it over very carefully. there are organizations out there that can help and places and people also. check out your options and avenues before chosing the one that may destroy you and any hopes you may have at a good life. two wrongs doesn't make a right i know what living with someone and feeling isolated is. your self esteame goes down, your joy goes down, you lose your identity and wake up one morning going hello? depression is not an option because of your children. takes everything you have not to come flying apart at the seams. i admire your strength. takes a lot to keep your sanity to keep going on. don't listen to the negative replies. those are people who have such a small life that they have to pick apart others to make them feel better about themselves. makes you wonder if they didn't get hugged enoughwhen they were younger. or maybe their parents were donkeys and thats why they have no choice to act like an ass !....hmmmm makes one wonder?????
take care supertacu. some of us are cheering for you .
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 66
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:09:04 PM

I am not an enabler, I have always worked on getting my husband off his drinking habits and other ridiculous addictions for that matter,
Alanon will teach you that YOU CANNOT do anything to get your husband off his drinking.. Only he can do that for himself.. and he won't do it until his world, as he knows it, hits rock bottom. By staying with him, and looking after his life for him.. You Are enabling him to continue the status quo.
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 68
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 9:22:26 PM
Then comes someone on here who wants to really flame...another protective male for you, super.... he is just repeating what has already been said in previous posts. I guess he wants to look intelligent for the "bombness"....
This is what you are looking for?
Give him his attention. He really went to war for you. And that other one, too. Warriors all!!!
This thread has gotten low-class with people using cursing and such.
Sling away!
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 72
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 10:51:05 PM
I posted on the first page of this thread, and I still stand by my post... LOL, sounds like a political statement...

I'd encourage you to read this thread: "Kids packed her bags!!"

If you'd like a taste of major judgment.

What you have described, is that at this point it is better to be with the devil you know, then the devil you don't know.

I still would encourage you to ask yourself what you are actually looking for on here. As well as what would happen if you met a really nice guy, but he isn't prepared for the insanity an alcoholic and his teen sons can inflict in a divorce proceedings.

Shug you have every right to want to feel happy, however your kids have even more so, simply because they were brought into the world by you and your spouse.

I guess what I hope you gain in advice, is NOT the feeling of being judged, but rather there can be a larger price to doing things behind you spouses back, then having a sit down and telling him what it is that you want...OF COURSE it does seem that you don't know at this point what exactly it is you want.

That is why I reiterate like many have, you talk with a counselor and bounce around your options. You probably have more fortitude of dealing better with a divorce now, before any adultery comes into the picture, then after the fact.

As in the thread I pointed out, that is 25 pages worth of nastiness that flew in all directions...

I hope that you don't cheat yourself out of anything wonderful for another 10 or 20 yrs. Life is to short to be so miserable that you are willing to compromise your values.

Starting over as a divorcee is not the hi light of my life, but sitting behind the 8 ball, while my ex did everything he wanted to do, just because he could, was less fun.

Remember, you are NEVER alone... No matter what you chose, it is what you chose to help yourself out that makes things easier... Good luck...
 ther_mal
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 73
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/12/2008 10:53:21 PM
hey wallflower.....sticks and stones.... i'd rather be the warrior than the witch!
being a decent human being with compassion for another who is seaking advice and some empathy makes me a warrior?
well hell stand back and let me shine my armor. if you don't want the criticism then don't give it.
you got to like these people who come on post and act like doctor phil with a broomstick.
i had a woman something like you before wallflower. she had the uncanny ability to jump on a broomstick and achieve flight also. kidding...well actually no but hey you know what i'm trying to say. ease up folks. its life. we make it what we want if we try hard enough but sometimes we are stuck in situations where we are tied from head to toe. we all have different opinions. but take into consideration the feelings of others before you start your rants. we all need some kindness. wallflower nothin personal.my apoligies if i hurt your feelings or insulted you in any way. just wanted to make a point also.
 Soorare
Joined: 5/3/2008
Msg: 74
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wEEL, you are baffling the fora...
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:58:29 AM
the OP wrote:


"....think that some of these blood-thirsty ppl's parents are donkeys / Tasmanian devils. I know they act like I'm here stealing their potential perfect mate, tho i don't think they are too marketable with or w/o me on this site. I will make some changes, unfortunately right now I will have to be these boys mother and a father. I'll be fine.>....."

Ok, sticks & stones can break our bones but e-posting only raises eyebrows...

Supertacu, are youreally looking for meaningfull change, or simply for support in your present relationship??

although some of the posters are meaner than the the crazies over at Catholic Match's fora, & youhave my sympathy, can youadvise us what directiosn you intend to take?
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 75
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 6:04:10 AM
Wallflower. Alanon went right over your head if you are going to continue to suggest that others drive alcoholics to drink, and I speak from experience with alcoholics littering my family and my X-husband's. You talk about enablers and not taking responsibility, you are putting the responsibility for drinking on the people around the alcoholic and that is retarded at best. I also hope that you get counseling because this venomous attack was unwarranted and the OP's situation was not remotely similar to your mother's. It is horrible that your mother abandoned you while still living in the same house. Lashing out at others because you perceive similarities has accomplished what? I wouldn't listen to a damned thing you said because of the way you chose to say it, even if it was good advice which it wasn't.

I think the OP has figured out that there is no helping her husband and at this point if I were she, I would take my daughter and get out. Let the 17-year-old know if he wants to come along he is welcome but leave dad and older pothead to himself. When my brother graduated from high school he was given three choices by my father, college, the military, or a job. By February he was still making enough hustling pool to pay for his drugs and whatever else he was doing. He had a job interview on his birthday but when he returned home my mother was informed that he took his girlfriend out instead. My mother told him again, do one of those three things or get out. My brother walked out the back door and didn't come back for several years. It wasn't until he was in his 40s and his marriage tanked that he got counseling and realized that my mother was not uber-biatch and that she had every right to kick him out. Your son either will or will not come to the same realization but carrying him is going to do him just as much good as carrying your husband has your whole family.

You are doing your son no favors by allowing him to do nothing and live off your largesse. I have also dealt with a recalcitrant stepson that was bigger than I and outweighed me by more than 50 pounds. If he won't get a job or go to school you and your husband don't need to be supporting him. Easier for you and the girl to move and I would do it now. If your husband wants to support him let him, there is nothing you can do at this point about the choices your grown sons make, or your husband, but you can do something about whether you will live with them. I suspect the kid doing nothing will become irritating even to drunk boy if he is the one that has to clean up after everybody's mess.

Yes, people forgive us, but being a good parent requires discipline so always having the attitude that things are okay is not okay. Kids need limits, structure, and they need to be told that they are children and are not the boss. Good suggestion to read that other thread because parenting, already a difficult task, is made virtually impossible when someone else is cutting your legs out from under you. You can discipline your children alone, I have done it the duration of my marriage and so have you. While it may seem like shutting the barn door after the cows are out, get some parenting books on discipline and start using it with your sons. When they find they have no clean clothes, no meals on the table, yada, yada, they may rethink which parent is the kewl one.

You know what's right and what's wrong. Get out the right way and save your daughter. Your boys know where the life boats are if they want to live a life differently than the one their dad has shown them. Just like he made his choices, it is now time for your sons to make theirs. Do not tolerate their crap, let them know they have a place if they want to abide by your rules and stick to it!
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 76
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 7:08:19 AM

At 39 you may be fortunate to meet a man your own age, but generally the men are lowering their age ranges of preference increasingly younger than their own as they age themselves.


I keep reading that middle-aged men are seeking younger women, but that has not been my experience. I have dated as many men 10-13 years younger than I am as I have men my age. I sometimes wonder if women in my age range have the "nice guy" syndrome and blame their lack of "dateability" on their ages rather than looking at themselves.


The original poster is looking for the 'best way out'.


She isn't looking for a way out. She is looking for validation to stay in her marriage while dating men.

If she is looking for the "best" way out, she should just leave. Things won't get better, and at this stage, she doesn't really want them to get better. She is tired of the marriage.

Again, been there, done that.
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 77
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 7:44:05 AM
packagedeal...
I stick by what I said...
You can argue until the cows come home....semantics. An enabler (whether she demeans him, nags at him, insults him, whines at him or threatens him) is just as bad as driving him to drink or keeping him drinking. I think her personality really came out on here as to what kind of enabler she is. THAT IS A RESPONSIBILITY SHE HAS TO TAKE. Alanon encourages us to take responsibility for our actions in dealing with this problem.
As for counselling. When I see that I have a great career (which I developed post divorce), have overcome a nasty divorce, raised my children so that they are loving and productive adults, and have a great social life with many people and friends, then I am alright. I have also lots of common sense and happen to not have any sympathy for a "bombness" who is into only herself.
Also, read what she last posted. She isn't changing one iota. In fact, she infers that we are jealous. That is so trite. Catfighters on the street use that strategy. Poor taste and laughable.
She just wanted to date men and wanted validation. Facts.
. She's still married. Won't leave.
2. Is on a dating site to meet men for sex. That line about sleeping in separate beds for years is rather telling, isn't it? Why else explain your sexual status in the marriage? Married men do the same when they are on the hunt. "We don't sleep together anymore."
3. Calls herself a bomb. Marilyn Monroe bombshell?? Actually refers to that term more than once.
4. Verbally nasty about how she sees her husband. Uses that to justify her actions. Read again all that she says about her husband. Now think that it is you she is talking about and referring to. How many married men on the hunt run down the wife?
5. Verbally nasty about her kids. No wonder they are on the road to loserdom. They have no respect for her. No love from mother. On a public forum calling them brats???
6. Refuses to see that maybe she is a real component to this dysfunciality by being sarcastic and nasty to anyone who calls her on her thinking. She never did ask for advice. She just wanted to hear about others just like her. Then have a circle of associates so that what she is doing is justified. And...lastly...says that she's going to stay right where she is.

I feel very sorry for the kids as she showed her true colours on here with regards to them. As for her husband? One wants to see what he has to say.

There are married men who will run their wives down and make them sound horrible so that they can get sympathy from the new prey. When in reality she is the nicest, sweetest, hardworking, intelligent, and lovely woman.
Isn't that a cliche?
I think this woman is the female version of that.
 ther_mal
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 78
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:14:03 AM
wallflower just to clearify something up . i've had the pleasure of seeing this lady and yes she is THE BOMB!
though the years may have been unkind to her she is still very attractive. and before you go off on your high horse about fake pictures .there not! i don't see none of you posted anywhere. so before you throw rocks. remember people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 79
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:29:42 AM
Wallflower, I agree with you. She didn't ask for advice and she plans to stay where she is. Despite her complaining, it is too comfortable to go elsewhere. To use a cliche, she wants her cake and she wants to eat it, too.



and before you go off on your high horse about fake pictures .there not!


Ther_mal, the OP has no pictures posted. If by "seeing" her you mean that you have seen pictures, whoopee. They don't have to be fake, they can be old or even of someone else.


if you have never been in an abusive relationship or a dead one. don't presume to sit back and dish out advice that you have no clue what your talking about


I haven't been in an abusive relationship, but I was in a dead one for years, so that must mean I can presume to sit back dish out advice and make observations. The OP is staying in the marriage because she is still getting something out of it. She doesn't want to leave not because her religion says no divorce (it also says no adultery) or because of her children (from what she has written, they would be better off in a different type of environment), but because the thought of leaving is more frightening than her circumstances.

I would bet money that when she begins to meet men and finds one with whom she can move in, she WILL leave her husband. Until then, the great unknown is just too unknown.

I stayed in my dead marriage because I was afraid of that unknown. Some women, and men, will only leave when they find the impetus to go (i.e. a new man or woman), or the situation is more frightening than the unknown.

Leaving was one of the best things I did in my life; so my advice, again, based on having been there--she should go or she should stop complaining. She should also not need validation from strangers.

 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 80
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:41:36 AM
Sleeping in seperate beds for ten years?
I couldn't even fathom that while being married..

I know what you mean about feeling cheated out of half your like..
I was married at the age of 18..
After giving all my youth to the same woman , I find out that she had cheated and lied all along and I found myself divorced ..

There is no way to get those years back, but I'm living the rest of my life for me...
It is hard to find a good spouse and soulmate, and at my age the chances get even slimmer...
Good luck and don't jump into anything..
 m930s
Joined: 6/12/2007
Msg: 81
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:55:12 AM
#1. Be true to youself.
#2. Bad behaviour begets bad behaviour.
#3. Opinions are like a--h----s, Everybody has one, and they all stink.
#4. If You want to be here (for whatever reason) be here.
#5. Take care of you first! On an airplane when talking about the oxygen masks and small children, they say put your mask on first!
#6 . Counseling could be good. Consider it!
#7. Use your head, not your heart.
#8. Have two sets of plans, one as a family and one as a single mother.
#9. No sex or passion in your life? Take things in your own hands. When someone right comes buy, Put your trust in his hands.
#10. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning.
You asked for advice, you got it!. Take what you can use and throw the rest away.
Chris.....
 nice_shy_girl
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 82
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History
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 11:48:26 AM

I am looking for genuine person because I'm lonely.


I am not trying to be mean or anything, but as a still married woman, you are not going to be able to find a genuine person. Most people who mess around with married people are just out to have fun and in the end you are the one who is going to be hurt.

I say get the divorce. I am divorced myself and am now just starting to get back into dating. If you are not happy in the situation you are in now, you're not going to be happy in any other relationship until you get your life straightened out.

Once your divorce is final, date to your hearts content. It's a lot of fun, but only if you do it the right way and that means to get your life in order first. Don't get serious with any guy until you find the one you feel is 'right' for you. This way you don't find yourself back in the situation you are in now.
 kkk3
Joined: 1/2/2008
Msg: 83
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 12:41:15 PM
hi.
just drop by and looking around..just to let you know i like your profile.thats all..bye now.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 84
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 12:51:56 PM

I know they act like I'm here stealing their potential perfect mate, tho i don't think they are too marketable with or w/o me on this site.

Now I have confirmation of what I suspected...you really aren't here to get advice/opinions/suggestions...you came looking for support for the rationalizations you've already developed.
Had everyone here kissed your ass and said, yes yes poor baby, go ahead and find a boyfriend, life has done hard by you, get a good boyfriend to help you get out of your bad marriage,you'd think WE were "the bomb".
Well I ain't 'the bomb", but I'm about to live up to the "C4" part of my handle.
Lady, if you aren't happy in your marriage, then for Pete's sake get out. If you can't deal with the issues that such would create, then learn to make the best of what you have. Being married to one man but actively looking for another man to bail your sorry butt out of what you've let run on for 10 years,what message does that send to your kids?? It will teach your sons that women can't be trusted and it will teach your daughter that a woman gets thru life by USING men.

I'd encourage you to read this thread: "Kids packed her bags!!"

ABSOFREAKIN'LUTELY!!
Look I'm sorry your life sucks, but what you are asking those of us participating in this forum to do, is to validate your plan of action, to say it's OK for you to cheat,

You might just as well ask a flock of chickens to nominate Col.Sanders for the Presidential election.

Fix the marriage you have or leave it and take charge of your own life.
Cindy O
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