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 AUTHOR
 ther_mal
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 85
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.Page 3 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
HAHAHA ya got to love it. i'm getting bashed by over aged opionatedwomen because this lady chose to send me one picture i NEVER ASKED FOR! she volunteered a picture. and no not because she thought she was going to get something for it. i live in eastern canada ans she lives down south. i thought that you grew up after 40. guess you grow down instead. or there is the example on narrow minded opinions. are we feeling a bit envious that this lady is getting some attention?

ladyc4...jnh456...Gwendolyn2008 ladies ladies if you have an issue..heres a tissue. boo hoo.get a grip. funny thing is you are al over 50 coincidence.hmmm. change of life getting you? them damn hot flashes.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 86
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 4:45:16 PM
I would be the one that keeps posting about Alanon and driving people to drink because it is a fuking choice. When I was younger because my mother was the biggest biatch on the planet, I drank, yes to get away from my problems but it was still a choice. She didn't drive me to it, I drove myself because I did not find an alternate method for dealing with my problems. I was also a teenager with fewer choices than adults that are in no-win situations.

I have problems now and I don't choose to drink to get away from them. If her husband thinks she is a biatch or whatever, he had a choice to seek counseling to solve the problems or to hide in a bottle. When the hell do people around here support the alocholic that is sitting around smoking dope with his teenage sons?

People accused her of not working, and she said she had worked throughout the marriage bringing home more than her husband at one time. Every shitty thing someone has said to her outside her thoughts about going outside the marriage for companionship she has answered from what I can tell honestly, and we still want to spew hate at this person.

I don't know what it is about this woman that everybody is freaking out about because if she does decide to have an affair that is her choice and she will have to deal with the fallout because of it. She tried to defend herself on this thread and as catty as everyone has been I don't doubt that part of it was jealousy even though you don't know what she looks like. I do, apparently when she is speaking with someone one-on-one she has the courtesy to include a photo so you are aware of who you are speaking to.

I hope she manages to exit her marriage in what I feel is the right way, by ending it first and then at some point when she is emotionally prepared for it, to find a guy that will not be a dead weight she is required to drag around. If she doesn't do that, I hope that she will at least find someone that will be a positive person in her life and that of her child but as I have not walked a block in her shoes, I am not going to make any judgements about what she does or does not do.

I spent 15 years with an emotionally and verbally abusive primarily dry alcoholic. Alcoholics will find any and all excuses for drinking and/or failing to take responsibility for their behavior. Most of the marriage I was accused of cheating. I never did and it would never have been my choice but it is also not my place to judge other people.

Wallflower, despite how well you are functioning, your rabid response to this thread suggests that you are still carrying a great deal of pain and it might be beneficial to you to get counseling because you might find greater joy in life if the hurt and anger are totally gone.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 87
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:33:43 PM
packagedealx3: Your posts are always intellegent and non-judgemental... Thank you for your contributions.
To blame the spouse of an alcoholic is bloody ridiculous and someone who thinks that way does indeed have issues that they have not dealt with. . and they project the pain that they still harbour continuously. But to blame the spouse for the alcoholic's drinking is beyond unbelievable.. It is no different (in my opinion) to blaming a beaten wife for the physical abuse her partner inflicts on her. .. she shouldn't have talked back, she should have had the dinner on the table when he got home etc *rolls eyes*

Op in msg 91 says she will make some changes, but for the time being.. she will have to be mother and father to these children... She's is taking her life back (I hope) one step at a time..
Now those with issues from your past that you continuously project in post
after post and thread after thread, I hope you seek some form of help as well. It will make you happier people. Afterall, with your thinkiing One could blame you for the reason your husbands cheated on you . .. doesn't feel good to be blamed for something you have absolutely no control over.. Realize this, and you will become happier overall and those of us who enjoy the forums won't be subjected to your superiority complex and bitter judgements.

Good luck Op.
 Soorare
Joined: 5/3/2008
Msg: 88
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Yikes! ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH, dear friends & darling Gwendolyn....
Posted: 5/13/2008 5:35:51 PM
Our Darling Gwen Wrote
".....The original poster is looking for the 'best way out'.
She isn't looking for a way out. She is looking for validation to stay in her marriage while dating men.
If she is looking for the "best" way out, she should just leave. Things won't get better, and at this stage, she doesn't really want them to get better. She is tired of the marriage......"
Which I assume was aimed at me, as it was, weelllll, quoting me…
First, can we show supertacu some Christian Charity? Who among us has not been scared by the choices of life?

I really do not see what is to be gained by sacrificing her life to a marriage from hell. Marriage is a social contract, & her older son& husband smashed that long ago.

My first advice is to muster your resources & get out. Leave the Manic& the stoners behind.

If something keeps you in this marriage, & GOD only knows what, then (He takes deep breath), take a discreet lover if you really have sexual needs that cannot be quenched. Be prepared for:
1. risk of blackmail
2. Psychic stress. If you feel guilty about your present marriage, you will certainly suffer the guilt of an affair, no matter how discrete.

It helps that I now live in Calgary, where the women are tougher than the Broncos they tame…
& thanks, Supertacu, for volunteering yourself as the fora’s latest clawing post…
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 89
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:32:39 PM
ther mal...
ummmm...your intelligence is showing again.....
where did I say anything about fake pictures??????????
Please...if you must contribute to this thread or any other, don't show that your IQ is much lower than an ant's.
Of course, you must protect this lady. Is this who she attracts???
Not my cup of tea at all.
Now...stay on topic, please instead of fighting with women. You just show all of us what you really are about.
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 90
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:44:27 PM
nah, package deal,
I was on to her right from the start....I have no patience for a mother/wife who acts like she does. She gives women a bad name. That's my bit*ch in this. That's all.
I especially get upset with what these women do to a family.
You?? wallow...wallow...wallow...victim...victim.... you are getting tiresome...

Her sending pictures already to guys thousands of miles away from her...
Pathetic, needy, silly, ol' broad with 4 kids....
And...that guy who believes the pictures are of her!!!!

This could get quite amusing now....
 ther_mal
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 91
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:51:12 PM
the only thing amusing is your i. q. you say i attack woman? well seems to me you are the one who attacked the op first then everybody who didn't agree with your narrow minded opinion. and so what about the picture. even if its not her at least she got the guts to have one? don't see yours to handy. not that i would care. but you know what the only thing that gets lowered here is the inteligence of your responses. but you all can say what you want and take your little shots. i know you don't anything else going on in your life so you got to make yourself important some how right? so taking apart other people makes you happy and feel like the big person , go ahead. and please.. if this is what i have to look forward to when i turn 40+ god its going to be a dismal life. turning like you. sour and bitter. ouch not nice.
 Soorare
Joined: 5/3/2008
Msg: 92
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Ohhh, Wallflower, Break clean for round 'infinium', please...
Posted: 5/14/2008 2:44:55 AM
Supertacu’s original premise seems to have been forgotten. She has asked these Fora for advice on dealing with a failed marriage. –How does she ‘maximize her life’s satisfaction ‘if she stays inside a failed marriage? 'Can we all return to ‘coloring within these lines’, PLEASE?

If she chooses to e-mail her pictures to others, that is her private right. I doubt that the god Svaritot is going to devastate our ‘ online tribe’ in return, so may we stop the spear waving, O>K>? …

I would remind those who are commenting on Supertacu’s Christianity that our relation to Christ is the deeply personal bond that forms us into optimistic, ethical people.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 95
Yikes! ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH, dear friends & darling Gwendolyn....
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:01:08 AM

i'm getting bashed by over aged opionatedwomen because this lady chose to send me one picture i NEVER ASKED FOR!


How can a woman be "over aged"? If we were hitting on you instead of criticizing you, you might be able to term us that. Over opinionated? Women are not required to sit down and shut up any longer. Live with it.

You stray from the intent of what we said--why do we care if you asked for her picture? And I agree with the poster who pointed out that you said the "years have not been kind to her"--what a backhanded compliment!


she volunteered a picture. and no not because she thought she was going to get something for it.


Of course she got something for it, fatuous young male--she received your approbation that she is the "bomb" and your support in this forum.


are we feeling a bit envious that this lady is getting some attention?


I tried to put the little guy rolling on the floor here, but he kept rolling to another spot.


ladyc4...jnh456...Gwendolyn2008 ladies ladies if you have an issue. . . change of life getting you? them damn hot flashes.


Sorry, Ther_mal, but I have been post-menopausal for years and never had a hot flash.


Our Darling Gwen Wrote


Why, Soorare, sweetheart, I didn't know you thought that way about me.


First, can we show supertacu some Christian Charity?


I am not Christian. The OP's claimed adherence to Christianity while contemplating adultery, however, makes a travesty of her faith. I have no morals, but I do have ethics, and ethics include not cheating (even at cards). If she wants a lover, let her discuss it with her husband; if he approves, then she should go for it. If he is against it, then, again, she needs to move on. Promises such as marriage vows cannot always be kept, but when they are broken, they need to be broken openly (divorce), not by sneaking around in private.


Who among us has not been scared by the choices of life? I really do not see what is to be gained by sacrificing her life to a marriage from hell.


I have to ask if you actually read what I have written. I have said a couple of times that I was in a situation similar to hers, and I was terrified by my choices in life. I left my husband, and I have said (at the point of redundancy) that if she doesn't like where she is, she should leave.

This woman needs to ask herself what IS/ARE the MOST IMPORTANT thing(s) in her life? Once that is answered, she needs to go from there. If they are her children, what will benefit them the most? If it is her marriage, she needs to shut up and suffer silently. If it is her need for a lover and/or to leave the marriage, she needs to walk away.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 96
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:16:05 AM

Women know women, and all their bullshit, too bad guys don't. Guys come on here wanting to understand women, and then when women tell you how other women are, we are b itches, catty, and whatever else we are called.


Truer words could have been spoken somewhere on POF, but not lately. There is a forum pointing out a study that men don't know women, but generally, women DO know women.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 97
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:31:04 AM
I always thought that lumping any gender into one neat pile was frowned upon in the fora. I look at it more as: Like knows like, whether it be male or female, ~ We, as women, do not ALL process life's lessons in the same manner and therefore, DO NOT possess the same psycological make-up. Some learn from past hardships and forgive themselves and those that we percieved to have harmed us... Some obviously carry those scars,have not healed and project them onto others who trigger memories in their wounded, unhealed ID.
Not very many in this thread condone or recommend that the Op look for another man to make her happy while still married (it won't help her). But many of us are able to give advice without projecting. .. I suspect they are the one's who have healed, forgivin and are (mostly) baggage free.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 98
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 8:14:31 AM

Like knows like, whether it be male or female, ~ We, as women, do not ALL process life's lessons in the same manner and therefore, DO NOT possess the same psycological [sic] make-up.


I agree, but nevertheless, I still think that there are commonalities--perhaps more cultural than innate--that the separate genders share. And beyond that, there are commonalities that humans, in general, share. If there weren't, then we wouldn't be able to read people the way that we do.

The clues in the OP's posting are what most of us are basing our opinions (and they are opinions).


Some obviously carry those scars,have not healed and project them onto others who trigger memories in their wounded, unhealed ID


Perhaps, or perhaps, some of us, having been in the same situation, just know the score. But the OP asked for advice from people who are or who have been in similar situations. I was. I can only give her "advice" based on my experience.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 100
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:28:06 AM
Having gone back and re-read the first post, I will concede that the OP does not ever come out and SAY she's considering cheating, in her first post. We may have drawn that inference from the fact of her havng an active profile here. We MAY have been "putting 2 and 2 together" and coming up with 3 5/8.
She could be asking what her chances are of finding "mr. Right" if she divorces Mr " "turned out to be not right". She doesn't want to be where she is but she's afraid that leaving will put her in a worse situation. And it could. She could wind up divorced, losing half of what she's worked hard for, and end up with no man at all. If she's asking if it's somehow OK to sneak around and line up her next man before she leaves the one she has now, my answer would be no, because it's setting a bad example for her children.
If she's flat out asking whether she's likely to find a worthwhile man should she end her present marriage, my honest opinion would be no. In the 40+ age bracket, the really worthwhile guys are being, for the most part, held onto by smart wives. This doesn't mean there are NOT worthwhile men out there, but I'd say the numbers are against her. "Looking the bomb" might enable her to "get her foot in the door" more often than a plainer looking woman, but does little to guarantee that she will find "Mr Right".
If she is asking what it's like out here in unmarried middleaged woman country, I 'd have to say it's absolutely awesome if you are secure in yourself and do not REQUIRE having a husband or committed man in order to feel valid. If she is divorcing because she cannot bear to stay with present hubby, that's fine. But I could not in good conscience tell her that there is a bumper crop of "Mr Rights" just the other side of the fence.
Cindy O
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 101
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 10:58:30 AM

I will concede that the OP does not ever come out and SAY she's considering cheating, in her first post. We may have drawn that inference from the fact of her havng an active profile here. We MAY have been "putting 2 and 2 together" and coming up with 3 5/8.


I based my opinion on this:



but at the age of 39 i feel cheated out of half of my life and afraid that i won't meet mr. Right.


Looking for Mr. Right is looking for another man--or the desire to look for another man. When she finds him while she is still married, what will she do? Will she remain chaste until a divorce is final?

She is also of the opinion:



(As far as cheating goes, I don't really see how you can cheat on someone you don't have sex with....for the last 10 years...)


Her marital status is "Prefer not to say," which says volumes.

Did she ever explicitly say she was NOT looking for a man?
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 102
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 11:48:53 AM

Did she ever explicitly say she was NOT looking for a man?

No, I will concede that she did not say THAT,either.
And I was going strictly on what her first post says,which could have ALSO been interpreted as asking for "insider" information about what it's like to be middleaged,divorced and looking for a new SO.

For myself, my mind just BOGGLED when she claimed that her and hubby had been sleeping in separate bedrooms for 10 years. WTF??? Aside from tragic situations where the spouse was unable to have sex due to injury or illness,why would someone stay that long in a dead marriage? Remember, the OP came back in later posts to explain that she DOES work and has a decent income, so she can't claim that she's a financial prisoner!

But, we'd be fools to ignore the fact that even with both spouses employed, in a marriage of much length, divorce is going to have repercussions with dividing assets, kids being thrown into an uproar, loss of friends/social standing...
Even a dead even 50/50 split of assets&liabilties, it's sort of like taking a yo-yo and breaking it in two. It's a lot of fun to play with a yo-yo, but what good is a yo?

I'm not saying that this is any JUSTIFICATION for staying in a loveless marriage and seeking sexual gratification with someone else, but I'm fairly sure this is a significant factor in many extramarital sex situations.

My own PERSONAL interpretation of this thread is that the OP is indeed in a situation where she doesn't want to take the social and financial risks of divorce, but wants to have a relationship on the side to get emotional and sexual needs met. I also think she's already pretty much made up her mind to do just that, but decided to see if she could find a basis to rationalize her decision and make it somehow "OK". Thus her posting of the thread. Of course the support for her premise has been pretty underwhelming...
Cindy O
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 103
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:23:08 PM
Wasn't planning on posting to this thread again but given Cindy's reposts I would also like to explain how I read the OP. I don't understand cheating and as the OP explained, I think the whole Christian thing was thrown in there to explain why she has not cheated even given a sexually celibate marriage for the last 10 years. So, because of the way I think, and because I have a tendency to believe people until they tell me otherwise, I saw this thread as a woman thinking aloud the way people often do with their friends, not as someone trolling for an extra-marital affair.

In the earlier less than blissful years of my marriage when I still had the delusion that the ***hole would get so tired one day he would be less of a pain to live with, people would ask me how I could stand the roller coaster. My answer was that the grief I know is better than the other different grief out there. So, at some point I see anyone, particularly someone considering getting rid of a 20-year-marriage, as thinking about whether there is life after divorce. People expect to be alone for X amount of time but it is not bizarro to consider whether life would suck if you didn't find anyone.

To me, that was the heart of the questions about other men. Now, I could be totally wrong and I hope I'm not because I suspect the OP would find that an affair is not going to be remotely close to what she thinks it might from the standpoint of making her happy. It might be a short-term fix but deep down it conflicts with belief patterns that she has held for decades. The guilt, the potential other problems, are not worth it and bottom line create even more havoc than they are designed to salve.

And finally I suspect that many of the people that responded so vehemently do feel for the children and even for the OP in terms of another human being's pain but perhaps you have forgotten that when one is attacked, he usually erects a wall and then there is no chance of getting through. The same thing could have been accomplished by saying, I realize that you are hurt and grasping at any lifeline right now but an affair will set a horrible example for your children driving a bigger wedge between you and your boys and potentially nullifying every moral idea you have tried to instill in your daughter.

It sounds like the OP is very, very tired and she may perceive the idea of having a caring relationship with someone as something that will bring her back to life. Unfortunately, while it may provided a little umph for a while, it will begin to suck the life out of her like everything else in her life right now. Everybody brings their nature and their environment to all of their future experiences. That I am not contemplating the same choices is nothing more than an accident of birth.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 104
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Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 12:23:31 PM

but at the age of 39 i feel cheated out of half of my life and afraid that i won't meet mr. Right.
Looking for Mr. Right is looking for another man--or the desire to look for another man. When she finds him while she is still married, what will she do? Will she remain chaste until a divorce is final?
Try to put yourself in the Op's shoes and how she is thinking about herself at the moment.. A different way to interperate her statement: She is someone who, due to circumstances whittling away at her self-worth, says she's "afraid that I won't meet mr. right" and in saying that, actually feels no one will ever want her. Once she has the opportunity to build up her self-worth. She'll understand that a man can't make you happy... Mr. Right will only enhance what she already has.

(As far as cheating goes, I don't really see how you can cheat on someone you don't have sex with....for the last 10 years...)
Now, I don't agree with this anology.. however I do symapthize with her feelings of abandonment and understand the longing for physical pleasure. (and) This is why I suggest that Op.. muster up the courage to get out while she is still young enough to make a happy/healthy/stable life for her and her impressionable-aged daughter.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 105
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:10:23 PM

Try to put yourself in the Op's shoes and how she is thinking about herself at the moment..


I have been in her shoes.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 106
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:33:59 PM

People expect to be alone for X amount of time but it is not bizarro to consider whether life would suck if you didn't find anyone.


No, it isn't. But how can anyone else's truth in this matter be accurate information for the OP?

It sounds like the OP is very, very tired and she may perceive the idea of having a caring relationship with someone as something that will bring her back to life.

My thinking would be that if she gets involved with a man who knows or suspects she's married, that's a guy with issues of his own. And if she lies? I won't say it CAN'T happen, but how can you be in a "caring relationship" with someone if you are lying through your teeth?
As far as wondering whether life would suck if she didn't find anyone, it sounds like her life sucks NOW. And as long as she is married to her present husband, she is not FREE to form a healthy relationship with another man.
As it stands right now, were she to divorce, she would at least have the right to date and HOPE to find Mr Right. I won't pretend that caring extramarital relationships CAN'T, or DON'T exist, but I'm not about to start advocating for them. And if she's looking to start and build an extramarital relationship as an exit strategy from her current marriage, I can't support that because of the message it sends her kids, ESPECIALLY the daughter.
Cindy O
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 107
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History
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 1:45:49 PM
As have I, Gwen. Then you realize what state her self-worth is currently in... 20/20 hindsight is not for the blind. Having already left , we know that there is no need to stay in a situation that is not healthy, ( how long did you agonize about it before you finally hit bottom and knew that getting out, no matter how scarey, was better than staying?) This is when experienced, empathetic advise can help. However, when you're still living it and know nothing else.. it's harder to see the light.

 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 108
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:20:20 PM

As have I, Gwen.


Wishes, I agree with you, and that is why throughout this thread, I have consistently said that she should leave him. I also know that advice is useless until a person reaches a level of understanding; when some people ask questions, they already know the answer and are seeking validation. Her questions point not to her leaving, but staying, and the validation she seeks is for being a dating site seeking Mr. Right.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 109
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History
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/14/2008 9:48:07 PM

We just basically lived our own lives. He cheated I didnt....................


That is what my ex had suggested too...I thought hell no, I had lived the life of being bread winner, to him being the bread winner. Even if he didn't physically cheat on me, he had emotionally.

It broke my heart because that wasn't what I thought would happen... When I got married, and waited to have sex, I thought sex was part of the package deal.... YEAH not with him...

OP it is easy to want to reach out and see what is out there, while trying to safely keep in the hell we are in... The truth is, you will not get a real taste of what is out there while you are still in a marriage. A good wonderful man is not going to want to mess with a married woman, the price to his own ethics and morals is to high...

So in essences what you will find is men who are very happy to play fill in, but do you really want someone that either just wants to have sex, OR someone that pities you?

WHen you have strength then that pity can change, and you can be left with a worse mess.

Being in the dating world is NOT easy, but neither is marriage of any kind.

Love your children and yourself enough to be that strong woman you know you are...It is worth it, and no matter what it will feel so much better than sneaking around...

Even if your spoouse gives the go ahead, again is that what you want your kids to think marriage is?
 smileee4u
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 114
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/15/2008 2:18:26 PM
Try to hang in there as long as possible.... for the sake of the children. I think you said it yourself. Your strongest attribute is that you are a Christian. So, keep praying eveyday, and when you experience the LOSS of your marriage, just know the God has a better plan for you. On the nights that are so difficult and lonely, just connect to God with thoughts and know that the Lord is getting you lined up for something a lot better than what you have now. Even if it means that God is planning for you to be alone, then this is a better way for you to carry on God's work. Once the bad energy of your failed marriage is cleared, you will see the path to righteousness. You will see what your true destiny is for... and you will be content and clear-headed, instead of being conflicted. You have been in denial for years, trying to wait for something to change. You have spent half of your life with an immature man. Once he is out of your life, you will feel a sense of peace and freedom you never dreamed possible.
 wallflower1
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 118
Been married for 20 years, feel empty.
Posted: 5/16/2008 7:23:39 AM
rdclaw...
I have known other women who have run their husbands down so that they can validate their cheating. It's rather common.
I 'd love to hear from the husband if he gets wind of this. Should be interesting.
He can take this whole thread to the lawyer's office.
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