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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Monkey Shirt Racist? Thread Closed      Home login  
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 aintnopixie
Joined: 4/30/2008
Msg: 67
Monkey Shirt Racist?Page 5 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
There is nothing wrong with that t-shirt. I say suck it up and get over it. If it were a racial joke towards a caucasion that is what we would be told. That it was all in good fun and get over it.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 68
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/27/2008 12:41:13 AM

That it was all in good fun and get over it.


Dear pixie,

Have you ever been threatened, I mean really threatened? Have you ever seen
the smiles and the sly looks that bullies use to cover their tracks so that other
witnesses might be fooled while the target is isolated in the knowledge that the
threat is real?

If that's your idea of good fun then you can keep it.

Until you've had that experience and recognize such "fun and games" for what it is, you come across as a fool--or a criminal. Take your pick.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 69
view profile
History
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/27/2008 3:30:02 AM

If you plot the distribution curves of physical strength among men and women and compare them, you will see a considerable area of overlap. The strongest men will always be stronger than the strongest women, but is it really necessary to limit firefighting to the absolutely strongest 0.5% of the population? If so, would _you_ qualify? I probably wouldn't.

And affirmative action is not a textbook case of institutionalized racism? Under the guise of "making previous injustices right" or not this is exactly what it is. And oddly enough some of the biggest opponents of AA are competent successful people that could have used this racism themselves to launch their careers with less effort, but instead chose to go on merit alone. There argument being that they are in no way inferior and therefore never needed any special protection. Do you seriously think that a great number of CEO's hail from trailerparks where outdated racial superiority concepts might possibly still hang on?

Atleast most of us agree that the shirt was in bad taste. As I stated before that doesn't mean it must be racist, it simply means that it is insensitive to how some may take its' statement. Because a racist sees one thing in a symbol doesn't mean that is the only meaning of the symbol. Let the restaurant owner parade around in a white sheet and a goofy hat if he wants, it will just make it easier for many to decide to spend their money elsewhere and drive his business into the ground.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 70
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/27/2008 9:37:08 AM

And affirmative action is not a textbook case of institutionalized racism? Under the guise of "making previous injustices right" or not this is exactly what it is.


I don't like AA. But if your alternative is to do nothing about institutionalized racism then you are supporting its continuation. So propose something else that will stop racist employers from continuing their unjust practices and we'll all be happy to get rid of AA.

What do you propose?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 71
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/27/2008 9:40:56 AM

Obama being in possession of a larger quantity of melanomin than georgie boy makes this something completely different? This is what I argue is at the core of the issue. We attach a value to this image because we have learned to make this association between ethnicity and species.


We learned that association because it was historically used to demean people who were blessed with abundant quantities of melanin. And, there are still people who use those images in that way. This appears to me to be just another instance of that long and nasty historical practice. That is why it is offensive and racist, whereas your pictures of Dub are parody.

You know the history. Why are you giving political cover to such mean-spirited BS?
 Ezzee
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 72
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/27/2008 3:01:22 PM
I am just posting these because all of this discussion has raised some interesting questions and peaked my curiosity as to others views. When I was in college I took a class called Race and American Politics. Fascinating class taught by an even more fascinating man by the name of Dr. Fred Lee. One of the handouts we were given at the beginning of the class, as he does with all of his classes, were something he called Leading Questions. So I thought it would be interesting to take this handout and propose these "Leading Questions about Race and Politics" to anyone who cares to respond.

1. What is the difference between "prejudice" and "discrimination?"
2. What are some key components of a definition of "racism?"
3. What are the key components of a definition of "institutionalized racism?"
4. Why has it been argued that in the United States blacks can be prejudice and can practice discrimination, but there cannot be "black racism?"
5. Is prejudice an inborn personality trait, a case of children mocking parents, or is it a result of a complex combination of social factors?
 sammyle
Joined: 5/8/2005
Msg: 73
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/27/2008 9:57:33 PM
After reading your many replys on this thread vixen, I as a black man can not possibly believe that you have many friends of different cultures; and if you do, I am sure that they are not aware of your opinoins regarding Racisim. Now! Because you found one black man you call " friend " it does NOT justify your racist views lol lol.
 sammyle
Joined: 5/8/2005
Msg: 74
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/27/2008 10:18:56 PM
Awesome reply Sarabara, you have restored my faith in humanity-:)
 aintnopixie
Joined: 4/30/2008
Msg: 75
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/28/2008 4:42:44 PM
ok so yes i chose my words poorly in my last post I will give you that but yes I have sufferd from racism. I grew up in a prodominitly black naghborhood and i got the slurs my family was accused of being racist yet we were the ones suffering.when i was 5 i had rocks thron at me constenly, by adults. but oh no what we experinced was not racisim because the only ones in this world that can be racisit are white and of europen decent so i am sorry if I offended any one but like i said had it been a joke about caucasions that is all it would have been seen as, a joke.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 76
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/28/2008 8:07:48 PM
Pixie,

Thanks for telling your story. What you experienced was racism and it was wrong.

Guess who they learned it from? People who looked like us.

So, let's just all of us stop it, OK? Since people who looked like us started it, perhaps we should take the lead in stopping it.

When we see some of "our own" picking up those rocks, perhaps we can remember what it's like to be a target and tell our pals to put them down. Rocks or T-shirts with racist images--it's just a matter of degree. Isn't it?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 77
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/29/2008 2:30:47 AM
Lily. I agree with you. Racism is an ugly sentiment no matter who harbors it and no matter whom they direct it against.

Institutionalized racism is a different matter. When White people seek to draw a parallel between Black (or Brown) vs. White racism, they conveniently forget that
the attitude of racism is a personal evil, while the institutions of racism are matters of public policy.

We can all choose to hate each other and shun each other if we wish, and we can do that based on whatever f*cked up ideology we happen to have been indoctrinated into. That's a matter of choice.

HOWEVER, we cannot allow the institutions that affect the public welfare to be influenced in any way by those attitudes--be they governmental, or privately owned when the public depends on those privately owned institutions for necessary or equal accommodation.

I can deplore racist attitudes of every color (and I do), but I cannot force people to change them. Nor would I want to try. HOWEVER, I can, and we all should, do all that we can to ensure that we destroy the last vestiges of institutionalized racism. Otherwise, no one's kids will ever get a fair shake. The pendulum will just swing around knocking over kids from first one group and then another until our kids all wind up in another Bosnia. So let's just stop the damn thing.

One vestige of racism that was once used to keep Black people from voting was to equate them with monkeys in order to demoralize them so that they wouldn't organize themselves and vote. Using such images in an election campaign is a dirty trick right out of the institutional racist's playbook. We can't let that kind of poisoning of the well just go by.
 TheresMyFriend
Joined: 7/16/2006
Msg: 78
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/29/2008 3:13:47 AM
Black people are looking for anything to come along that they can use the "infamous race card" on. All you have to do, is look around...it's everywhere! Come on folks, all we're doing is giving them something to fuel their anger with. It's not raciest, until a black person says it is(which is every dam time). We have jokes thrown at Caucasian all the time...do you hear much about it being a raciest issue? Hell no!! So, the issue is with the African Americans, just looking for something to **** about.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 79
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/30/2008 5:51:08 PM
You know, it is really interesting to see how far people will reach to justify their own unadmitted racism.

We were all raised in a racist culture, and for anyone to dismiss a charge of racism out of hand is just ludicrous. You can't kid a kidder, and we're all racist enough to know it when we see it. Cute little monkey my *ass. And y'all know it.

It is so much easier to say, "hmmm ... maybe so," and then make an effort to see it from the other person's viewpoint than it is to degrade oneself with such ridiculous denials and evasions. --as if one was still a little kid trying to put one over on mom & dad. Puhleeese!!!

Somebody took me to task the other day for comments about my own fear of becoming disabled one day. It sounded to them like I was disparaging the disabled.

Yes, I resented it, and I must admit that I snapped back. But you know what? I'm still thinking it over because if it's true, it means I've got some more growing up to do.

What a shock!!!!!!!!! OMG, I might not be so perfact after all! O ... M ... G!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't we all have some growing up to do?

The question is, do we have the character and dignity to do it?
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 80
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History
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:32:00 PM

We were all raised in a racist culture, and for anyone to dismiss a charge of racism out of hand is just ludicrous. You can't kid a kidder, and we're all racist enough to know it when we see it. Cute little monkey my *ass. And y'all know it.

Racism is learned at home, not in the culture. That poster that K1ngmaker(hope I have the name right) manged to rip a new one (not that he made it hard lol) Didn't learn racism from your culture or his culture he learned it on his daddy's knee or his momma's.
Two kids of different races that don't learn this behaviour at home will play together with never a racist thought entering either kids head.
Ace the day we quit growing is or should be the day in which we die. Life is a learning process.
I am going to have to check back when I have time and catch up on all I've missed.

The shirt is NOT racist though, it is an image only and has no value other than what value we attribute to it. Now if you ask if the person selling those shirts was USING the image to get across a racist message, well now you have a whole new ball of string to bat around.
People really should stop focusing on the symbol and expend more energy eradicating the source of the problem. Mandatory sterilization of anyone that wants "the south to rise again" or is a member of the Black Panthers and so on? That seems a bit over the top even if effective, so I'll hold out for education, it is slower but with some forethought will have the same effect, since illogic cannot forever withstand reason. And let's face it racism is about as illogical as anyone can get.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 81
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:33:53 PM
It's not just mommy and daddy, though their influence is undeniable. But kids also learn things from older kids, and a white kid will certainly get the message when the neighbor kids call him a n*gg*rlover or some other racist slur. --not to mention the racist jokes that suck kids in when their parents aren't looking. Families occur in a milieu, not in a vacuum, and that milieu also has its influence.

Symbols aren't just interpreted, they are also intentionally created and used. So, to say that interpretation is only in the eye of the beholder gives ill-intended people who try to hide behind purported ambiguity an unwarranted pass. People who display symbols interpret them when thenever they use them. The people who took offense read the message that was most likely intended given the context in which the symbol occurred. A lack of clarification lends credence to the claim that the ugly intention behind the symbol was read correctly.

But I do agree that racism is illogical and that education is the best course of action for dealing with it.
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 82
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/30/2008 9:36:51 PM
So Dudley,

What's your alternative to AA that puts a stop to the institutionalized racism that preceded it?

If the best we can do is equalize the impact of injustice across all segments of the population, that's still pretty damned poor, don't you think?

So let's do better. What do you propose?

You say that you're against racism in any form, but passively accepting racist practices merely abets them. So, since you feel such urgency about denouncing the injustices of AA, you must have some idea of a system that would work better.

Or are you only against racism when it bites White people?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 83
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/30/2008 10:12:15 PM
Guess who they learned it from? People who looked like us.

I do have an issue with this statement! Basically you are saying that white people are responsible for their own racism, and also for all black racism! Why is it that whites should be accountable for their own actions, but blacks shouldn't? Isn't that saying that somehow blacks are inferior, and that they can't control and aren't responsible for their own thoughts/emotions/actions? I mean in that issue with Dixie there were black ADULTS throwing rocks at her!


I was reminding her about how it started because she was White. If I were speaking to a Black person I would remind her about how undignified and useless it is to repay evil for evil--tempting though it might be when one's own children are still being oppressed.

Dixie wasn't a bully and didn't deserve that, but for her to discount the context in which her harrassment occurred leaves her without any basis for compassion for them.

How sad it must be to be an adult of so little dignity that you would throw rocks at a little girl. What happened to reduce those people to such a miserable state?

And what happened to the fellow who printed up that T shirt to reduce him to such a miserable and undignified state?
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 84
view profile
History
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/30/2008 10:58:17 PM
Uh if AA is not institutionalized racism what is it?
This form of racism will only serve to drive unsuccessful uneducated people to embrace more racist views, to see themselves as victims of racism rather than victims of poor schooling or their own lack of ambition.
And worse it creates brand new mild racists. Upon seeing a minority in a position of power or influence, people that would have thought nothing of it may not be inclined to ask themselves, "did this person really earn the role or did we end up with the 3rd or fourth best because we could tick off 4 boxes on the checklist?" Frankly I would expect many successful minority individuals to be quite upset at having their success in something they may have worked their a$$ of to get to questioned in that manner. But only because of that law it becomes a valid question.
Honestly though AA deserves its; own thread.
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 85
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/30/2008 11:29:19 PM

It's amazing that such an ignorant and racist thread has not been pulled by the mods. Are they blind to this too?

The utter stupidity of these people saying that they don't see how comparing a black man to a monkey is racist reflects poorly on Canada. Can we all say "duh"?

Is Canada stuck in the 1950's? Have Canadians still not yet met anyone who doesn't look just like them? Do they think that its OK to call black people n'ggers, or burn crosses on their lawns while hiding inside white robes. or keep them as slaves?

This is a complete no-brainer and I'm very disappointed in all these Canadian racists. Canada should be embarrassed to have them in their midst.

 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 86
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/31/2008 12:06:58 AM
The only thing that can be done is return to having all equal under the law and having it illegal to not hire or promote someone on the grounds of race, religion, gender,etc etc. The best man for the job not the whitest not the blackest not the cripple or the whatever just the best man for the job.


You say "return to" a time when employment was equal under the law. Exactly when was that? If you ask a Black or Brown person, they will tell you that such a time is yet to come for them.


I agree that would be poor but i don't agree that AA equalizes anything.


Do you deny that institutionalized racism existed before AA? Do you deny that AA is an attempt to remedy it? After all, it was a bunch of predominantly White legistlators who came up with it and Harry Truman was no liberal. Nor was Nixon, who took it beyond the military to civilian contractors with the federal government.

Going back, as you put it, means going back to the days when a Black or Brown person didn't have a ghost of a chance. If you don't have an alternative other than that then your position is the practical equivalent of a return to racism--not equality.

Yes, I whacked you a bit there, so please accept my apology. But the golden past that you want to hearken back to simply did not exist for people of color. If you want things to get better, you're going to have to help move things forward.

Do you want things to get better or not?
 AceOfSpace
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 87
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/31/2008 1:56:24 AM

Raciism existed but it wasn't forced by the government upon us that i know of.


You aren't aware of it because it didn't bite you directly. But you must have heard of Jim Crow laws, and in Canada the attempts to eradicate indigenous cultures.

It wasn't just the US South, but since you refuse to acknowledge that there might have been a problem for others, and aren't prepared to contribute a positive suggestion that would alleviate that problem, then I'm afraid I don't have anything more to say to you except that I hear your argument and I believe it is unsubstantiated, unsound, and unhelpful.

You appear to be looking out solely for your class interest and, unfortunately, public policy cannot rest solely on that. It has to take into account the interests of everyone. If there's going to be institutionalized injustice, then equalizing the harm and inconvenience by distributing it equally among all groups is marginally less awful than exempting certain groups from it and making other groups bear the full brunt of it. Just because your daddy was in the previously exempted group does not entitle you to that same privilege.

The remedy for you and your kids is to get better educated. A few courses in history might open your eyes. It's one thing to be poor. It's quite another to insist on remaining ignorant. Sorry, but by repeating your complaint you come across as a three year old who can only shout "it's not fair" when the parents say that it's time to go to bed. It's time to put "white privilege" to bed for good. Sorry that you don't like it.
 Adam 4 Coffee
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 88
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/31/2008 4:25:51 AM
Its definately racially insensitive. But made me chuckle. I don;t think offering border patrol agents free meal;s is wrong. they keep out the illegals and should be reqarded. I wish mroe bars and diners gave discounts and free meals to our active duty servicemen. if I had sucha palc eIw ould officer free coffee to all police on duty and discounted meals to veterans and military. This situation was blown way out of proportion. No matter what you do it will offend someone even if you try to do something nice. We should all get together and have a chuckle and forget about it. making a big deal only makes things worse.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 89
view profile
History
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/31/2008 8:42:46 AM
It's amazing that such an ignorant and racist thread has not been pulled by the mods. Are they blind to this too?

The utter stupidity of these people saying that they don't see how comparing a black man to a monkey is racist reflects poorly on Canada. Can we all say "duh"?

Is Canada stuck in the 1950's? Have Canadians still not yet met anyone who doesn't look just like them? Do they think that its OK to call black people n'ggers, or burn crosses on their lawns while hiding inside white robes. or keep them as slaves?

This is a complete no-brainer and I'm very disappointed in all these Canadian racists. Canada should be embarrassed to have them in their midst

Um duh! It didn't HAPPEN in Canada, so explain how one white idiot in Texas should reflect on Canada at all? Or is it only a reflection on caucasian Canadians...... you would be racist yourself to support that.
Further Canada is COMPRISED of a multitude of cultures. That is the definition of a cultural mosaic rather than a melting pot. Infact where do you think the underground railroad led to?
Personally, I find it unwise to import racism and victim ideology from south of the border when we'd be better served addressing those issues as they affect us in our culture. Maybe then we could find a reasonable solution that is mutually beneficial and inclusive rather than divisive regarding the multitude of problems associated with the reservation system and slow progress in land claims between governments and native bands.

EDIT: Thanks for the correction Eezzee.
 Ezzee
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 90
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/31/2008 8:55:54 AM

Um duh! It didn't HAPPEN in Canada, so explain how one white idiot in Texas should reflect on Canada at all? Or is it only a reflection on caucasian Canadians...... you would be racist yourself to support that.


Actually, it was in Georgia.
 forum_moderator
Joined: 1/24/2003
Msg: 91
view profile
History
Monkey Shirt Racist?
Posted: 5/31/2008 11:26:43 AM
*-Thanks to everyone for their contributions. As some have noted, this thread is starting to eat its own tail, so for the sake of keeping tempers even and moving along to new topics of interest, let's let this one go. Thread closed.<- TheMadFiddler-*
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