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 WeAre1
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 64
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Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?Page 7 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
^^^ You say
"I think it's easy to get away with is because, when it really counts, people "mind their own business" and people ignore it, accept it or generally chose not to deal with it for whatever reason. ..."


I think the essence of why there are so many abusive and abused people is because of the shame. And, some abusive people carry guilt just after the incident, but it does not usually stop them from 'committing' the same crime again....and again.....and again.

And the abused, both men and women, carry so much shame that runs very deep. To tell anyone requires huge trust that they then won't be ridiculed for allowing themselves to be in such a relationship.

Also, remember, for those who were abused as children, not telling anyone was part of the 'training'. It runs very deep not to tell. And many are still too afraid to.
 WeAre1
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 66
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Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/26/2008 5:40:46 AM
'and the game plays on'....

we are so horrified to think torture happens by our and other governments, but it also happens right here in our own homes - for that is what abuse is - it is torture and it really is no game, of course......and all the players are losers....until the end the game....a bit like Jumaangi - opening it up can so often bring more horrors.
 simpleman20188
Joined: 8/11/2007
Msg: 68
Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 5/26/2008 10:56:04 AM
"Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?"
I have come to the conclusion we teach people how to treat us.

It doesn't mean there are'nt abusive people out there it just means the are not likely to abuse someone who doesn't let them.
 licoricecat_1
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 69
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Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/9/2009 1:23:35 PM
My ex-boyfriend was abusive in every way. What caused me to fall in love with him was his charm and humor and his class. He only abused me when no one was looking and he was explosive. He is friends with the police and the courts, so they continue to let him slide and find reasons to not give me an order of protection. He stalks me, sets me up and calls the police after he hits me and tells them he did not want me there when he insisted on me spending time with him. Help!
 licoricecat_1
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 70
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Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/10/2009 6:38:38 PM
I go to a 12 step group. It is called "loving detachment". You detach yourself emotionally. Provide them tools such as pamphlets, schedules of meetings in whatever the area they have a problem in, purchase literature, provide them phone numbers of the detox programs. If they get in trouble with the law,---do not bail them out. Do not enable them, cover up for them, sugar coat what happened. Let them be responsible for telling the story and being responsible for their own actions. Always tell them you love them and give them the tools so that they may get the help. Hug them. Call the police if they get abusive even if it your own child. It might be possible that you might have to even write a letter to the Judge and let the Judge know they have a drinking problem, anger management problem, gambling problem or ? and need Gambler's Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, Anger Management or other kinds of support groups. Use wisdom and tact in this. If it is dangerous---get out. Things will not change and it is not your fault.Take action. /Set boundaries. If they are violated---take action and make a decision.
 licoricecat_1
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 72
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Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/10/2009 7:09:32 PM
My ex-boyfriend I fell in love with and bent over backwards to please him. In return, I got a man who refused to introduce me to his family or friends and I went out 4 1/2 yrs. I was never invited to holiday events. Weekends he often was with his family and I was never invited. He would invite me over and when I went to his apartment he would explode and then tell the police that he did not want me there. Then the police would not know who to charge, ----him with getting violent after begging me to come over or me with trespassing. He stalked me everywhere, bad-mouthed me to everybody where I got kicked out of large churches I went to for years based on him ruining my credibility as a person, ruined my character to his family which made them not want to meet me, choked me, hit me and when I tried to get away he locked my purse, credit cards and telephone in his trunk. When the cops arrived they arrested me because in trying to get away, he got scratched and he dramatized the story on the phone when he called the police, since my phone was locked up. He has also cheated on me repeatedly, with POF women, which is how I found out about POF. He has humilated me behind my back and in front of others. When I was with him, he flirted with woman everywhere and excluded me in any conversation. He is abusive when I am alone with him, never in front of others. He is also technology oriented so he uses equipment to trap me and get evidence to use in court. He is up and down, very charming and charismatic with everybody and most people like him and would never think that he is abusive. He could explode if I ask him a question regarding a party or ? and then next thing you know I am being thrown across the room. No one would ever believe that this man is this abusive. He lies, bounces checks, sets you up to be trapped using technology equipment that is his employers. It is frightening because he is smooth and learned all his techniques from the military, special forces. I really tried to help him and really loved him. He does not want help and fools all the counselors, doctors, police and judges. I tried to go to the counselor with him but he refuses to be honest and deal with the real truth. Now he is lying about even throwing me across the room to the Judge and the Judge is believing him and dismissing the order of protection. It is going to trial and he has a good Attorney. I can't afford one and they told me I don't need one since I have a Town Prosecutor. I do not know what to do. I did nothing, so I should not be concerned. What does he want from me? If we are not seeing one another why is he freaking out about an order of protection and he wants to go to trial instead? The Judge dismissed this order of protection based on a lie that he told the Judge and I was not even present to defend myself. He knows the cops, Judges and systems pretty well since he goes in and out of court for his tenents. He has done so much more to me before, but they are too numerous to talk about. Even though it is over, I hurt emotionally that he did not want help and that he wants a relationship with me, (according to him) yet he is abusive. It does not matter if I love him or not---I need to stay away for my own life and my own freedom, since he knows alot of cops and Judges and they continue to protect him.
 licoricecat_1
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 73
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Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/10/2009 7:26:17 PM
If an abuser wants to get help they should get it, be separated from their family while getting help and slowly be reintroduced back into their family once they display healthy behavior. It is best to keep the family together. However, this should only happen once their are positive signs of healing and behaviors. Kids still love both of their parents and don't want to love neither one.
On another note---what would you say to a person who is abused and none of the agencies will help her? They tell her not to call and will not give a reason why. Some of the shelter people work in the police department and they also refuse to help as well as the Luitenant who is in charge of the Domestic Violence unit. All authorities in the police station were notified and they are all sticking together. When an attempt to make a complaint was filed, 5 police officers surrounded her and told her to leave the premises or she will be arrested. Are the newspapers next? The police refuse to help, refuse to give a reason why and will not allow a complaint to be filed against them.This is the honest truth and this IS a domestic violence situation.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 74
Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/10/2009 8:28:58 PM
Miss Contemplative- I notice you said "the woman that raised me" as if you have a problem referring to her as your mother or mom - I too get a sick feeling when I say the word mother or mom.
- I grew up with a violent and abusive mother, I was the last of 5 kids - all of them having anger and control issues, paranoid schizophrenia and one died of a head injury at 10 years old before I came along. I was the one who became the doormat - to go along to get along. Walking on eggshells my entire childhood. I have extensive cervical spine problems later in life likely from her yanking my then waist length hair whenever she felt like it, throwing me across a room, hitting me with whatever was handy - the things she said to me go through my mind like it was yesterday. The yelling, screaming, verbal & mental abuse can never be erased from my mind with any amount of counseling. Her biggest fear, was being exposed or "locked up". She did everything she could to keep me isolated, make me feel that was a terrible person and deserved to be treated that way, and she saw herself as a victim of circumstance was very clear to us how much of a burden it was for her to be a single mother. I went to college and rarely went back. One time she did attack me and I still have the scar on my hand where she bit me from 25 years ago. I didn't respect my father for being such a coward and leaving us with her when he knew how she was. They're both passed away - they had me pretty late in life.
When we talk about our mothers very frankly, people think we are being disrespectful, a bad daughter, maybe even possibly making it up for attention because they are in disbelief. They want us to just "get over it". I manage to find happiness throughout my life and think I've turned out very well - no divorces, no pregnancies, no rehab or prison, and I believe I'm a kind person that friends would say is fun to be around. To be honest I am terrified of ever getting into a situation again where I can give anyone that much control over my life. My mother made me never want to have children with a man and end up in the same situation as her. I had been a doormat in many relationships since then always been afraid to set boundaries - that would mean making someone mad and then they could hurt me. I couldn't understand why a man would want to leave me when I was giving, caring, kind, loving and never got angry, lost control, raised her voice, trying to be that perfect little girl but they would stay with women who were demanding, controlling, etc. I wanted to be loved and have a man's attention so bad.
I majored in Psych at college and have done a lot of reading and growing since then. Now I listen, watch, and wait when getting to know someone. I'm no longer afraid to communicate my needs without fear of confrontation, and at the first sign of anger, manipulation or coersion, belittling me - I nip it in the bud and they are gone. I no longer get romantically involved with someone before I have seen and observed their personality thoroughly. and just like I am not afraid to expose my mother for what she truly was, I know an abuser's biggest fear is the humiliation of exposure. They hate accountability to others - one of the strangest, funniest things is where they amazingly are able turn it around completely and try to appear like a victim when that happens. My mother was good at that. She no longer has any power over me, but I have lived much of my life in fear of confrontation and am just now at 46 know that I have a right to be treated with dignity and respect. I don't care if some people think I'm a bad daughter - they have no idea what it was like. Mothers are supposed to protect us and nuture us. I pray for all abused children because I know first hand they have a long hard road ahead of them. Blessed are the meek.
I think abusers are the worst criminals roaming the earth and there is a special place in hell for them.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 75
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Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/10/2009 8:51:01 PM
There is a lot of good discussion on this thread.

I agree with some here that the victims need more immediate and intensive help for safety reasons than the abuser because of an appearance that the abuser is "in control" of the situation, when really he is not in control at all.

Unfortunately, as it has been pointed out, it is in the nature of violence that it is difficult to tell who is being the abuser and who isn't when you aren't in the situation directly. This is because it is also in the nature of any human behavior that is not condoned by society -- to lie about it, and to be covert, and secretive about it. And so, a woman can take advantage of the fact that more men tend to be physically violent and abuse men emotionally and get away with it. And men can take advantage of the fact that women tend to be more verbal than physical and use that to get away with being physically abusive by pointing out a women's primary way of dealing with things as the "reason" (excuse.)

I think that the help that needs to happen has to happen to all of us. The abused, the abuser, the witnesses, the community, the culture. Obviously, focusing on any one group hasn't worked. We can separate the abuser from his victim and he knows he/she can find another one. We can separate the victim from the abuser and the victim isn't safe because there is not ever enough surveillance to completely prevent all repercussions unless everyone gets involved at every level of society. We as a society can separate ourselves from both, by jailing the abuser, putting the abused into "homes" (shelters.) But they are never very far away from us, just out of sight for the moment, until the news comes on.

There is a free newsletter available from this website that deals with abuse from all angles:

http://www.angriesout.com/
Dr. Lynne Namka

This website has a great program that can be implemented in schools to prevent the bullying that often precedes or is a sign of abuse among children:

http://www.thegraycenter.org/

"Gray's Guide to Bullying" by Carol Gray (Spring 2004 Jenison Autism Journal)

Abuse is a sign of a lack of social skills. And so the resources that help children and adults with poor social skills are excellent for this.

But that is assuming that the abusers are not sociopaths. A sociopath doesn't want to "get better" or get fixed, or change. Partly because they can't, because they are missing something essential that nobody yet knows how to fix. For this group, the only hope for society, the abused, and the abuser to not abuse again is confinement in jail or some other institution.

I think that the books by M. Scott Peck, M.D. address the larger question of what we need to do as a society to change so that there are fewer abusive people in this world, and to offer hope for them and for us.

"People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil" (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1983).

"A World Waiting to be Born: Civility Rediscovered" (New York: Bantam Books, 1993).

"The Different Drum: Community Making and Peace" (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1987).

Peace is the opposite of violence, and love is the opposite of fear. But to love someone who is fear-based is to often put yourself at risk of being the bogey monster that the paranoid thinks is out there amongst us.

To end violence we can't just endlessly study violence. At some point we need to study what peace is and how to expand it to everyone who needs it.

To end fear, we can't just study and discuss fearful topics. We will have to study how to end the isolation that is the breeding ground for things that hide in secrecy and lies and bring them to the light.

Its good to discuss what happens with violence, but we can only help together as a group. And maybe that is why it exists...it will never go away unless we can all work together to make it so.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 76
Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 1:58:56 PM
^^^Of course he was. You know that.

But at least you got it out of the way, and hopefully know what to avoid. Careful though - the really abusive men are incredibly affectionate early on.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 78
Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 2:06:26 PM

I dont think he was an abuser really actually, im not sure, it's like he had no clue he was doing anything wrong at all?! he was angry, but physically a gentle man, he wouldnt have hurt me. I think he had insecurity and abandonment issues.

I wish I could just message you with this:
Abuse is about control. He didn't have to hit you to control you, so he didn't. You still walked around on egg shells and had to go to great lengths to avoid his wrath. He also kept you insecure and dependent.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 79
Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 5:05:30 PM
I do see it, but then i make excuses I suppose for everyone, I see good in everyone, and do excuse people. It's just me I guess.

But I cant reiterate enough, how he REALLY thought he didnt have a problem at all!



When they deny it, it's like they're abusing you a second time.
They take no responsbility for their own actions.

There was some crap in the bible about if you cause someone to sin you are the one headed for hell. My mother would curse and scream a blue streak at me when I was 6 years old, and then quote that stupid crap to me and tell me it was my fault and I was going to hell for it.

So tell me mother - is it hot there?
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 81
Why are there so many abusive people, and is there hope for them?
Posted: 10/11/2009 5:44:39 PM
When people grow up, "normal" and "acceptable" are archetyped by that which they are exposed to in their upbringing.


That's not true at all. Violent people just use their past to justify their behavior. I grew up with violence and I find it TOTALLY unacceptable. If a boyfriend even so much as raises his voice at me, he's done, and I would never treat anyone the way I was treated growing up. I believe in the golden rule.
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