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Show ALL Forums  > Single Parents  > Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or      Home login  
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 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 11
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?Page 1 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
I spent a lot of time being upset about the hand I inadvertently dealt my children and you know what, it just made me be a more stressed out mom so stop the beating up now. You also should not cut off contact with the biological dad even if he is a piss poor influence because at the end of the day, that is your son's choice. There are many times when I have peeled the kids off the ceiling and just wish he would disappear but that would leave a bigger hole than the one that already exists. And DO NOT badmouth dad but don't make excuses for him either. Be as honest as you can be in answering questions and explaining why dad didn't show up to or for whatever but let your son draw his own conclusions. Don't blow smoke and don't lie but allow him to find his way with what he believes and his feelings.

And honey, those are not your only choices. If you have no relatives, find husbands of friends, neighborhood dads, your male friends. Good male role models do not necessarily have to stay in a kid's life forever either. People come and go and while it is good to have a consistent person such as an uncle, grandfather, or family friend that is never going anywhere, any time that a boy spends time around good men teaches them things about who they wish to be.

My kids' biological dad is crap. He tries but there is not enough space on this site to explain the ways in which he falls down on the job. My sons, and my daughter, see how their uncles behave, there are about four or five men in my neighborhood who are my friends and/or have children that my kids play with. One of the guys that recently joined the site has taken my boys with he and his son on I cannot even begin to count how many outings. It is great for him to have kids to play with his son and he truly enjoys kids. My best friend's husband has pretty much adopted mine and they now call her father grandpa as theirs on both sides have passed.

Even younger guys enjoy spending time around the kids and are more than willing to be the honorary uncle. Start looking around you instead of trying to find what you imagine would be a good father figure. Forget the father figure part and just look for good men whom your son can spend time around. Another friend of mine had his ex's kids spend the weekend a few months back. The boy twin broke a window on purpose. The benefit to my youngest son of sitting there and watching the whole thing play out, the calm and loving way this man handled teaching the lesson about respecting others' property without yelling, etc. was a priceless gift.

My 13-year-old recently talked to me about the men in his life, pointing out how they differ from his father and how he wished his dad was more like them. He now has choices that he would not if his only exposure to male influence was his biological father. No matter what tools we give them, good or bad, eventually they grow up, are adults and need to make their own decisions and live with the consequences; one of the most difficult parts of being a parent is recognizing that while you will always be one, the "job" part of it is done at a certain point and the rest is up to them.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 12
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/6/2008 10:04:42 AM
Strong male role models are everywhere, extended family, teachers, athletic coaches, spiritual leaders. If your son's Dad is not doing his job as a father, has substance abuse problems or is violent then surround yourself with good men.
My son's Dad is 1000 miles away from us. But between my Father, my Brother, my son's baseball coaches, teachers and my BF he is surrounded by men he can admire that will show him excellent examples of how a man is supposed to be.
Don't play games, don't critisise the Dad just explain to your son if he asks that his father tries hard but has problems.
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 18
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/7/2008 2:02:20 AM
Really it seems a lot of fuse about nothing. I raised my four children without their father. Three girls, and one boy. I talked to my son just like I did his sisters(Yes about sex too. People make far too much fuse about that one. Just don't make a big deal about it. With all of them I talked about the facts, plus tried to teach them the idea of not sleeping with everyone that they date. To at least have some real feeling for them. Interesting my son was the one that listened the most). You don't have to be a man to teach a son how to treat people. You simply teach your children to treat everyoe the same way they would want to be treated themselves.

To the one poster, no I did not get one cent of child support, and never tried to get it.
 wonwascallywabbit
Joined: 7/20/2005
Msg: 20
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/7/2008 10:04:36 AM
A boy needs a man in his life no more than a girl needs a woman. If you make the effort your kids will be just fine without. My daughters were raised by me and are just as girly girl as you could ask for. Put forth the effort, find the right answers, and most of all be there, whether it's football practice, or cheerleading, always, always be there. Seeing you there, knowing how proud they are making you will go further than you can ever imagine.
 janofc
Joined: 6/1/2008
Msg: 24
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/7/2008 3:27:18 PM
I agree that no role model is better than a bad one. I also agree that a boy needs a father, but that the male role model can be filled by other men in your life. I see the need in my boys as they get older, but I also see the men they are growing into and I am very proud of them. As the single parent you have to be the one to model the behaviors that you want to see them grow into. Good luck.
 paul-34
Joined: 2/7/2006
Msg: 39
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/10/2008 6:17:43 PM
oh look...its another bad dad thread! Some of the mothers out their are not perfect angels either and yet have the kids for the simple fact that they are the mother and we all know how courts tend to side with the mom.....even if the dad didn't do anything wrong and the mother is a crackhead (not that my ex is but that is just an example of some of the things i see in the news)
 joyful1126
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 55
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/12/2008 10:38:08 PM
mr kidding himself... I would say you need to look at your own history. If you have had sex at all in your adult life, you may have a child or two out there and not even know it. Your comments make me think that you were an unwanted child yourself (even if you had 2 parents around) and have never learnt how to deal with it.
The lady posting the initial thread was not 'whingeing' or lamenting about men in general. She was asking a valid question that every parent asks themself at some time. (yes, even the married ones ask this question in the bad times).

To the lady who posted the thread. ... I have 2 children 20 years apart. The first, we divorced after 5 years and had a son. I tried everything possible to only extoll the better virtues of my ex to my son as I did not want him to be involved in the divorce issues. I can remember many times, consoling a crying child because daddy forgot to pick him up. But I persisted. When my son was 16 he realised for himself that his biological father was not a good role model as a man or a father. My eldest son is now 28 and a great dad to 2 girls and he is the first to admit he is like thsi as he wants to be nothing like his own father.

My second son was conceived on a chance encounter, believe it or not he wore a condom and I had an IUD but after 20 years of being careful, I found myself pregnant. I did not want the man to stick around and he had no inclination in that area either. But now I have the other end of the spectrum with my son as he really misses not having any sort of dad around and even though I have tried to explain it to him and tell him that he is better off with one good parent that loves hime that a bad one in the picture, he still wants a dad. I just make sure that I do not introduce him to anyone I have ever dated until I am sure the relationship is going somewhere. I was a lot more confident of introducing my first son to men I was dating because he did have a father figure around.
My point is that both aspects of your dilemma have pros and cons but each need you to treat your children differently and seriously think about how they interact with anyone you date.
 2HEDZ
Joined: 3/16/2005
Msg: 61
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/14/2008 10:44:41 AM
you're limiting your options here. there are more choices than just bad or none. think about it.
 smiley_mum
Joined: 5/1/2008
Msg: 86
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/18/2008 4:07:14 AM
Speaking from experience of fathers who want little to do with the child, I think itś important that you dont limit the role of role model to the biological father. Many people taught my brother and I much more than we could have learned from a man who really did not care at the end of the day. Our grandfather, friends of the family, uncles, male teachers and people like scout leaders taught us how to treat women (in the case of my brother) or how women deserve to be treated (in my own case). Sometimes itś better to cut your losses no matter how painful and focus on finding a positive role model for your child instead of the broken one that you could waste time in trying to win over. But then again, what do I know. :)
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 93
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/18/2008 10:44:11 AM
honestly, as a male,i would have to say, no bio father at all,the only good that could come out of it is the child will figure out hi/her dad is a jerk
 dallastxman10101
Joined: 4/30/2008
Msg: 102
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/19/2008 6:54:27 AM
Well choices we make effect others. Seems to me from this little information there is two adults that made bad choices awhile back and now it’s time to feel bad and point fingers who’s the better parent. Everyone looks at people differently. You look at his father as an ex that you ether hate, can't stand are blame for things and your child will look at him as his father. So let the relationship that they have be whatever his father choices to have with his son. They will work it all out. Life is long (hopefully). Be the best mother you can be you know the one that answers his questions when he has them, let him live his life as it comes. The world is not fair. So you have to make good choices now. You have to make good choices now from here on out. Raze that boy the best you can. I see baseball, basketball, football, school plays, friends, swimming, martial-arts, track and field, music along with sadness, disappointments, unfairness, losses, letdowns, hart breaks, tuff times in his and everyone’s future.. It's called life. My advice to you and ever single parent, stop worrying about what others do and don’t do and be the best parent you can be…. I’m sure your young boy will grow to be an awesome MAN!
 horse732
Joined: 3/22/2007
Msg: 107
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:04:08 PM
I feel whatever the father decides it should be his choice, but of course the mother has a say in it... My father decided to leave when I was three and that doesn't really make him a good role model or a bad one for that fact... He felt he couldn't deal with the family and his interests were in another woman... So everyone is welcome to their own opinion and how they feel... So Missmichmich I believe do what you feel is right for your son... My brother grew up with a good male role model... He grew up fine... Mind you he is a little deviant, but he's not in jail... If the father is a jerk and has issues let him sort them out before he sorts them out on you or your son... Then you can decide or the court which ever has more authoritity I'm not too sure... But anyways it's your choice, but don't leave your son out, hear what he has to say too... Considering I did read something about he's not interested much in his father... That's ok don't force him, but try to encourage him a little though... I never really knew my father, but he may have a chance (considering the father changes his ways) to know his dad... Sorry for rambling on I just wanted to try and help you out if I could...
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 113
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:30:12 PM
If the father is a criminal or severely psychotic, then I think you need to keep your boy away from him. do not say bad things about him, just keep him away. its not any better for your son to grow up with the "knowledge" that his father is a loser. Its better to keep your son separated and completely in denial about it until he is old enough to understand better.

However, you must be honest, if the problem with the father has more to do with the fact that you just don't like him, maybe you two fought a lot...perhaps you don't agree with his values, etc.. Then the boy needs his father and you are wrong to separate them, wrong to say bad things or do anything that will jeopardize the possibility that the boy will be able to learn everything he possibly can about being a man from his own biological father.

I realize that if you have decided that you don't like the father's values you would rather raise your son a different way. But there are many things about father/son relationships which you do not understand that are related to how a boy becomes a man. I highly recommend the book "Iron John" by Robert Bly. Aside from the fact that you will stunt his maturity into manhood by seperating him from his father, the boy simply is not exclusively yours. If the courts have determined otherwise, that may be a different matter and see my first paragraph. Otherwise, you have no right to destroy that father/son relationship.

In any case, good luck, I wouldn't want to be in y our shoes to have to make that choice.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 115
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:11:47 PM
yes, I have read that book and I suggest you do as well. Its deep stuff but I recommend it to every single mother of a boy I know and I recommended it to my sister too who is not single. Most boys in western society today are not getting ample male energy injected into their lives and the result is that we have millions of young men in their 20's and even 30's running around acting like adolescents. The ones raised by single mothers have it even worse.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 118
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 8:39:14 AM
How do you define "bad example"? That's a very subjective term. Taking the biological parent away from a child is a horrendously bad thing to do unless there is ample justification for it to the point that this evil will outweigh the worser evil of that so called bad example. But define "bad example".
 musicman_70
Joined: 4/6/2008
Msg: 119
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:23:43 AM
Why would a woman allow a CHILD to decide whether they want their dad in their life when he is not good for the child? I read posts from these woman saying that they allow their children decide on whether they have contact with their fathers. What does a young child know? A good mother will recognize a bad influence on a child and do everything possible keep this person from spoiling or ruining the childs life. And a leopard can't change its spots....they are camoflauge to hide its deep down ulterior motives. I know women with this mentally and they pushed alot of good men out of their lives because of this thinking...they wanted the kids' biological fathers in their lives, regardless how evil or bad they are. Well these kids are grown know and are emotionally and physcologically scarred for the rest of their lives. Do what is best for your children and if their fathers are not good for them,KEEP THEM AWAY! Remember you have to be 16 to drive a car but any idiot can create a child. Too bad there wasn't a law concerning that.
 musicman_70
Joined: 4/6/2008
Msg: 120
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:43:02 AM
Where did you get your information about higher IQ's in single parent families? What article,study,research shows this. I would like to see this information myself because IT IS FALSE. Where did you get this information from, The Enquirer? Any professional in psycology would dispute you...totally ridiculous
 musicman_70
Joined: 4/6/2008
Msg: 121
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:50:37 AM
A bad role model is better than none at all? I hope you don't have kids and if you do I feel sorry for them
 heartseekertrue
Joined: 6/24/2008
Msg: 125
Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:12:02 PM
I tend to concur, that distinctly bad role model....may cause more problems than absent one. To all the men out here...always remember that by default YOU step into those shoes...in the childs eyes.
And moms, please be careful and allow sufficient time to ascertain your date is worthy to walk there..even briefly.
The respect and mores YOU model (or not)....may well be influential in the childrens eyes....
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 126
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:46:10 PM
right now the number of single mothers in america is sky rocketing. Its already at 40% and growing. I will submit to you that the reason is not generally because of truly bad fathers making up the vast majority of that number, but rather because of a dismissive culture that is finding ways to write off the father role to irrelevance. There are certainly cases where a bad mother or father should be removed from the lives of their children, but this should generally only be in fairly severe circumstances.

As I said from the start, you have to ask yourself very honestly just exactly how bad the father really is before you diminish the quality of life for your children. An awful lot of single mothers can not be truly objective about that decision because they are generally harboring some of their own feelings of resentment and bitterness towards the ex, which carries over into their decision making about whether the father should remain in the lives of their children. And the answer is YES, no matter how much you can't stand the guy, he absolutely should be.

Realize that the next step in the evolution of the government taking over our lives is for the governement to start deciding if and when both father and mother are "good enough" to be what they consider good role models according to their set of rules. When that happens, we will have kids raised by the state. We are halfway there now.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 128
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/29/2008 6:36:07 AM
Its not good that your ex is doing GBH, whatever that is...some kind of abuse I assume. I don't think that information alone is enough to say whether or not the father should be shut out. There is a lot more about the man that you know and we don't know, so we can't really advise you, you have to come to that decision on your own. But I will say, shit happens. If it was so blatantly obvious I don't think you would have to be asking us now what we think, you would absolutely cut him out no matter what anyone else tried to tell you. But the fact that you are wondering whether this is reason enough, to me says, it quite possible is NOT enough. Just something to consider...

If he acted out in anger a couple times, but generally is a decent run of the mill man most of the time, then no, that is not enough reason to shut him out of your kid's life. Its a perfectly good reason for you to leave him though.

On the other hand, if he is going around all the time professing openly that a woman should be beat down...then yes, by all means. Shut him out.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 130
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/29/2008 7:46:33 AM
Yep, well said Daisy.

Seems a bit narcissistic to place that issue at the top of the list of things for what a father can teach his son.

And there is something else, that needs to be emphasized again. A boy who is raised without his father around will not be fully psychologically healthy. The psychological process that helps a boy become a man, CANNOT be facilitated by the mother. It will not happen. A boy with only a mother around will end up an adolescent until he is 40. Just look around you at guys out there, this is happening like crazy lately, due to the feminization of our culture. There are much deeper things at play than role modeling. The psychological process that a boy goes through to become a man is one that requires initiation rituals, usually carried out consciously or subconsciously by a significant father figure or other family male elders. This is present in all civilizations in various forms, going back for thousands of years. Most of that stuff has been wiped out of our current culture within the past 50 years, which is why boys are not becoming men at 20. Not even by 30 in most cases. Maybe by 40 they get there on their own finally.

Adolescents do not TRULY love women, rather they worship women as a stand in replacement for their mother. When you see men in their 20's and 30's acting out, being players, etc...this is all adolescent behavior. See what good no male role model is doing? Just look around at the current crop of guys in the 20-35 age range...they have been raised in an extremely feminine world with a drastically reduced masculine energy input into their development....even the ones that do have a father around. The ones without a father, I really feel sorry for them. Notice how in inner cities there is a proliferation of gangs. There are many reasons for this, but one reason is that these adolescent boys are DESPERATE for some masculine energy and desperate to go through the initiation rituals I mentioned. So they try to create it on their own, incorrectly, that way. They have no fathers around. The inner city is where you find that situation the worst of all.

You better have a damn good reason for taking a father out of the life of a boy because while you may perhaps reduce some aspect of negative role modeling, you will also be psychologically stunting his development into a man.

You have the opportunity to teach values to your kid also and just because he sees his father acting out in shameful ways does not mean he will replicate all of the same things. Sometimes kids go 180 degrees exactly the opposite direction of their parents. But that doesn't mean the parent's involvement was not crucial to that child growing into a mature, thinking adult. Everyone makes mistakes in life, including both fathers and mothers, nobody is a perfect role model. But kids need their parents, we have millions of years of evolution that have tuned our psychological development to need it. Taking it away is a huge mistake unless the parent is truly a maniac or hardened criminal.
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 132
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 6/29/2008 2:52:30 PM
Ok, the details you are describing to me says he should be shut out if you can do that. If for no other reason, your own safety is at risk.

But yea, I'm glad you can see the big picture. Your boy needs a male father figure. If not the biological dad, then someone else significant. Where is your own dad? He can possibly fill in. Or do you have any brothers or uncles? If so, move closer to them, get them more involved if you can.

I know some women here in the USA that think they can just have some boyfriends around or send the boy to become-a-man camp when he turns 15 or something...and none of that will be enough. There needs to be a significant male person who is around the boy from a very young age, all the way through teenage years and represents a respected authority figure(ie, like a father, grandfather, etc). Even then it may not ever completely replace a biological father because we are all somewhat obsessed about our where are genes come from, but if you get someone like that early enough, the boy can learn to think of him like a father and respect him that way.

In your case, I think its pretty tough to make a choice between no-dad-at-all and the guy you're talking about. He is obviously a major loser and dangerous to be in your life. No dad, might be a better option, but its also not a perfect solution. The best solution is for you to get busy and find someone better to spend the rest of your life with. And quit messing around with the kinds of guys that may become violent!
 borntoski683
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 138
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 7/3/2008 11:44:21 AM


damsel 73..... I do agree with you that is really annoying, but i think at the end of the day u have to put your resentment to the side for the sake of the child. My other 2 kids dad loves them, but can be a real arse, and i find myself really lying to them about him, sayin how wonderful he is, and how hes the cleverest man in the world (vomit), purely because i believe the more wonderful my son thinks his dad is, the more confidence he will have in himself as a man.

I remember idilising my mum till i was about twenty, thinkin she was the most perfect mother in the world, i then started realising that she wasnt!!!!! So i think in time the kids will judge for themselvves but hopefully when their adults and are already healthy well adjusted people, so will not be affected by it.

exactly!
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 147
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Whats more important for a boy, a bad roll model biological father or no male role model at all?
Posted: 7/12/2008 6:35:20 AM
Parenting should be learned,the family court system should be abolished
I am speaking from experience , my son's mother and i should not have even shook hands ,let alone bread..... this being said, we took a very different rout , we split when he was 2
and went through mediation, then we took parenting classes, i learned not to be a diseny dad
we had one set of rules, which she as custodial parent set, so if he was grounded from playing video games there, it was the same at my house, he has a great step father, grand perents, and i am a very good dad, i accept his mother as being a very good one, as does she as far as my fathering abilities go.
This being said, men have not changed, the times have but men still, consider there women and children property, i know this is a generalization but in this case, i believe a good one,Men play games because they think they have lost something...when in reality the only thing they lost was a bad relationship with the mom
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