Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > for the gun control people [CLOSED      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 bubahotep2020
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 1
view profile
History
for the gun control people [CLOSEDPage 1 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
for the people affected by this in japan my heartfelt sympathies go out to you. For the gun control people please read the story from msnbc and take heed this is what we mean by guns dont kill people, people kill people.

TOKYO - A Japanese man rammed a truck into a crowd of shoppers, jumped out and went on a stabbing spree in Tokyo's top electronics district Sunday, killing at least seven people and wounding 10 others.

The deadly lunchtime assault paralyzed the Akihabara neighborhood, which is wildly popular among the country's cyber-wise youth. The killings were the latest in a series of grisly knifings that have stoked fears of rising crime in Japan.

A 25-year-old man, Tomohiro Kato, was apprehended in the attack.

Local news reports initially said the man was a self-proclaimed mobster, but national broadcaster NHK later said the suspect was not a gang member.

"The suspect told police that he came to Akihabara to kill people," said Jiro Akaogi, a spokesman for the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department.

'Tired of life'
"He said he was tired of life. He said he was sick of everything," Akaogi said.

The violence began when he crashed a rented, two-ton truck into pedestrians. News reports said he jumped out and began stabbing the people he'd knocked down with the truck, then turned on horrified onlookers.

Police confirmed seven deaths -- six men and one woman -- but they could not say whether the victims had died of injuries from the truck or were stabbed to death.

Reports said the attacker grunted and roared as he slashed and stabbed at Sunday shoppers crowding a street lined with huge stores packed with computers and other advanced electronics, and the latest in video and computer games.

"He was screaming as he was stabbing people at random," an unidentified witness told NHK.

District paralyzed
The attack paralyzed the district and sent thousands of Sunday shoppers into a panic. At least 17 ambulances rushed to the scene, and TV footage showed rescue workers tending to victims in the street.

An unidentified witness told NHK the suspect dropped the knife after police threatened to shoot him. An amateur video filmed by a mobile phone showed policemen overpowering the bespectacled suspect.

Another amateur video taken five minutes after the rampage showed shoppers helping the victims and a man screaming, "Ambulance, Ambulance!" according to NHK.

Police earlier said 12 people were wounded but later lowered the number 10.

Once rare, stabbing attacks have become more frequent in Japan in recent years as violent crime has increased.

In March, one person was stabbed to death and at least seven others were hurt by a man who went on a slashing spree with two knives outside a shopping mall in eastern Japan. In one of the worst attacks, a man with a history of mental illness burst into an elementary school in Japan in 2001 and killed eight children. The killer was executed in 2004.


Just like with any other Internet Forum, if this spirals out of control with insults and trolls, it will get closed or deleted along with any particpant posting privileges not following the posted rules. Keep it civil and leave out personal insults - debate the subject matter.
 johnny7103
Joined: 4/1/2008
Msg: 2
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/8/2008 10:59:01 PM
Guns dont kill people chuck norris kills people.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 3
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 2:21:52 AM

Guns and knives are not weapons they are tools and the sooner they are referred to as such the better we will all be.

As July Morning pointed out, there are many uses for knives other then inflicting pain or destruction. It can be used to carve a masterpiece, prepare food, or even save a life. A knife is an essential house hold item that while can be dangerous, can also be very helpful.

Unfortunately I can't say the same thing for guns. While a gun can sometimes be used as a deterrent on the defensive side, it is mostly used as an offensive weapon or tool for persuasion. It's primary purpose is to inflict bodily harm.

While I agree that guns don't kill people. They do something that is just as bad. They give people a sense of empowerment. People get the idea that they do not have to be right as long as they have a gun. It goes to their head like a drug and they start thinking of all of the possibilities of ways that they can use it to their advantage. At this point in time, an emotionally unstable person can easily transform into a killer as this guy did in Japan.

It's true, a knife can give a person the same sense of empowerment, but as I said earlier, knives have far too many useful purposes that makes them impossible to get rid of. Guns on the other hand have few useful purposes. They are just far too negative.
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 4
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 2:55:14 AM
the year after australia banned guns, violent crime rose like 150% if i remember correctly.. banning guns doesn't stop crime, it just influences people to think of other ways to hurt people. we are human, and humans are the only animals on this planet that actually seek ways to hurt themselves and each other. banning one instrument of death isn't going to stop the problem. the only way to prevent senseless death is to find ways to give meaning to people, as well as teach people how to protect themselves and others. while this man was stabbing people senselessly, somebody should have done something to stop him, instead of just watching... he shouldn't have had the opportunity to stab another person after the first one. its the mentality of the crowd that needs to change. more people should be against senseless violence, and should do more to prevent it. i can't even count how many stories i've heard of people watching others get hurt and doing nothing about it. that kind of behavior should be beyond acceptable. shit, if i saw something like that happening, i'd like to believe that i'd be the one to stab him myself.
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 5
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 2:59:34 AM

it is mostly used as an offensive weapon or tool for persuasion. It's primary purpose is to inflict bodily harm.


i kind of disagree with this statement. every police officer walks around with a gun on their belt. it's not used for offensive, or defensive, or even persuasion. well, unless they are passively persuading people to not kill them. it is there only for the rare occasion that they may need it offensively or defensively. i have a gun, and i mainly use it at the range. though, it is always loaded, and always in a drawer. its main purpose isn't for target practice, but instead, it sits waiting for the time when it has to be used. so the main purpose of my gun is to just be there in case it needs to be used.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 6
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 4:32:37 AM

the year after Australia banned guns, violent crime rose like 150% if i remember correctly

That's where people make a big mistake. Gun control is different from a gun ban. I do not think we should ban guns. But I definitely think we should better control them. Here are a few ways to do so.

1. Make background checks mandatory everywhere. Even at gun shows.

2. In any firearm sell, it should be mandatory for at least one licensed gun dealer to be present and therefore responsible. Any transaction made without a licensed gun dealer present will be considered illegal. Think this is impossible? That's what they said about alcohol too.

3. Have stiffer penalties not only for violent crimes, but also for illegal sales and distribution of the firearms.

4. Limit the caliber size of guns. Reason: A 38 can deter someone from mugging you just as well as a Desert Eagle 50 cal. But in the case of an accidental discharge, someone may have a better chance of living. Some guns simply go above and beyond what anyone could call "useful".

These are some examples of gun control. Obviously there is a big difference between this and a ban.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 7
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 10:04:27 AM
jim most of those bans seem to only affect IMPORT of certain types of arms. i.e. American gun makers can sell their product with no outside competition. Really it looks more like big business protectionism than anything to do with controlling who has access to arms.
Ya Va-Tech would have been so much worse if the idiot was denied sale on grounds of his documented mental instability and he could only arm himself with a knife or two as those guys in Japan did...........
Gun control isn't about banning guns, it is about taking reasonable steps to ensure the wrong people don't have easy access and no oversight.
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 8
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 3:49:40 PM
July Morning, i can't tell if you are against police officers having guns, or against guns in general. i can't tell through your sarcasm if you want to disarm police officers or not, because you can't seem to get a single point across without it dripping in immature, irrelevant sarcasm. if you want to have a constructive argument, you should probably work on that, because i really have no response to you as of yet.

oh, and as for australia; since the 1996 gun ban:

-Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;
-Assaults are up 8.6 percent;
=Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;
-In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent;
-In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily;
There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

as i said, violent crime.


You're absolutely right, Wowsad, in this and in all future arguments, because you've gotta loaded gun in your desk drawer and I don't.

and i'm not right because i have a loaded weapon in my house. the only reason i'm right is because you can't seem to convey a mature thought.
 johnny7103
Joined: 4/1/2008
Msg: 9
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 4:23:36 PM
I think its more dangerous in britain now since they banned guns after dunblane. I think the majority of guns used in crime in canada are illegaly obtained from the states. If you ban guns the criminals and wacko mass killers go to the hood to buy them.

There should be a law against politicians blaming legal gun ownership for crime. Like some kind of big fine for not sticking to the facts.
 bubahotep2020
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 10
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 5:06:26 PM
The existing gun laws in the US are very clear about the mentally disturbed and others who are prohibited from purchasing a gun. The problem is that while the government loves to pass laws the enforcement of them is arbitrary. Some one somewhere FAILED to follow existing reporting laws. By law he should not have been able to purchase a firearm, but it wasnt reported to the proper agency. Everyone wants to create new laws the problem is that the laws are already in place, they are very poorly enforced.

This is a fact if guns are banned only the military, police, the rich, and criminals will have guns. The average law abiding citizen will not.

In a lot of cities the police manning ratio is one police officer for every 10,000 people. Thats including desk sgts, dispatch, CSU, homicide detectives, vice, and other posts that dont normally patrol in the field. Smaller towns have one county sheriff and maybe two deputies patrolling a large area that takes several hours to traverse. So if only police and criminals have guns what happens?

I am all for gun control, but the laws are already there they are just not being enforced through the negligence of our elected officials.

The laws that do get passed are rediculous the assault weapons ban was a joke. Take one regular rifle stock from the manufacture. Change the grip add a flash suppressor (which does absolutly nothing really but a cosmetic change) and put a forward grip on it and now magically it is an assault weapon. You didnt change the springs it isnt fully auto everything was just cosmetic. In other words it looked scary, that was a way for politicians to look hard line to thier voters while really doing nothing substantial. High capacity mags are illegal for non-military and non-law enforcement a difference of five rounds in a 9mm clip. so what does the shmuck do? CARRY MORE CLIPS it served no real purpose but it made the masses feel better. regardless of the fact across the border into mexico you can still get high cap mags and black market weapons even though guns are illegal there.

And who runs the country down in mexico? the drug cartels run the country. If you say they dont then your very naive any organization that routinely assasinates the heads of police departments not to mention the 2nd in command to the entire state police force and has no fear of the repercussions runs the country. Did you know that most of the heads of the Law enforcement agencies there live in secured compounds for fear of assasination? Yet guns are illegal there, according to some people it should be the safest place in the world.

Go figure
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 11
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 5:36:19 PM
i agree with what was said above. the laws are already in place, but they need to be ENFORCED. i don't know what people want to be done exactly... ban guns altogether? how will that solve the problem of ILLEGAL weapons being in the hands of people who shouldn't have weapons in the first place. so what, if a criminal goes into a gun shop and can't buy a gun, he'll just go to a back alley and buy one out of the trunk. my uncle is a gun collector. he has shot exactly one person in his life. that person was robbing a grocery store he was a customer at, and had a gun to the salesgirl's head. she couldn't get the money out of the register, and he was cracked out. he had no other choice. he always carries a gun on him, and has since he has been able to. if you take that right away from the average citizen, you will be taking away the average citizen's right to protect the people around him/her, and themselves.

people have opinions against guns, but offer no viable solutions to the problems besides "increase the laws!" which makes absolutely no sense to me. whether there is a 3 day wait, a 14 day wait, or a month wait, criminal background checks, and everything else... that is not stopping the average criminal from obtaining a firearm, and it won't. if the guns aren't registered, they cannot be regulated. it is your right to own a gun, as long as you follow the laws in regards to obtaining and using it. i believe that it is every honest american citizen's duty to own a firearm, if for nothing else but to exercise their right to do so. everybody says, what if there's an accident? what if somebody else gets their hands on that weapon... well, if you can't be trusted to maintain a weapon in your own household, then there is something very wrong with your household. accidental gun deaths happen because of carelessness, not because the weapon itself in dangerous. god forbid, if somebody ever broke into my house and i had to shoot them, i wouldn't feel proud, and i wouldn't feel as though i've done something "right". i would however feel that it was necessary.
 bubahotep2020
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 12
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 5:40:59 PM
People of the forums mark this day down in the history books, for once Wowsad and I actually agree on something
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 13
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 7:29:18 PM
your father was in drug enforcement for 20 years and never pulled his gun out, huh.... my friend was shot 3 times in the chest while serving in brooklyn his 3rd year being a cop. i guess we just grew up in different environments. he's still alive thank god, but when he shot back and hit the guy in the stomach, he went down and shot one last time into my friend's ankle and shattered it, so he's out on disability. i have another friend who is in the nypd also, in queens. he's been shot at, and he's had to shoot somebody. it's only his 2nd year in. times have changed.

as for the question of whether i would be willing to beat somebody up as opposed to shooting them? if i had to, yes. but it's kind of hard to beat somebody up who has a gun, or any sort of weapon, especially when you're caught off guard.... while i could spend years taking hand to hand combat classes, i would much rather just have the option of using a firearm available to myself. i really don't care how personal it is, as long as the situation gets taken care of, and i'm still alive. i've never aimed any of my guns at somebody, and i've never threatened anybody with it. but i have to admit, the sight of my beretta cx4 is probably fairly scary, and could convince somebody to leave without me having to actually shoot them, hopefully. the thing about home invasions that really frightens me is that the people who generally commit these crimes don't have clean records, and new york is very big on its three strikes thing. i can imagine the mindset of somebody who is breaking into my house, and has to deal with the consequences of being caught. with that "i'm not going back to jail" mentality in the back of their head, how far exactly are they willing to go to not get caught? do i have to die? i wouldn't want to risk it. i don't live in a great neighborhood, and its not uncommon around here for people to own firearms for home protection.

i don't agree that people should just be shooting themselves dead in the streets over petty fights and whatnot, but my house has been broken into 4 different times. i wasn't home three of those times, and the time that i was, the person left when i was grabbing my gun. i'm glad he did, and i'm even more glad that he hasn't come back. i'm not willing to throw away the firearms in hopes that i can handle a situation with a steak knife, i'm sorry. its just not going to happen.
 m409998m1
Joined: 2/18/2007
Msg: 14
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 7:30:06 PM
No matter where in the world you are, crazy, mentally ill people snap. Your point against gun control based upon this article from Japan, has no merrit, and no relation to your point what so ever.

Take a look at the ratio of gun deaths in the United States. Facts are facts and you can't make a good argument, regardless of your point.

Global Gun Epidemic
The US gun death rates are far higher than other industrialized countries, and among the highest recorded in the world. 2005 statistics indicate that the US had 10,100 gun homicides compared to 222 in Canada. While Canada and the US have comparable rates of homicides without guns (1.79 vs. 1.35 per 100 000), the US firearm homicide rate is 5 times Canada's (3.8 vs. 0.69 per 100 000) and the US handgun homicide rate is 7 times Canada's (2.83 vs. 0.39 per 100 000). The US also has 5.8 times the rates per 100,000 of robberies committed with firearms even though rates of robberies without guns are comparable. While some American states have regulations comparable to other industrialized countries, guns flow freely across state borders. The USA's 220 millions guns account for almost 1/3 of all the guns in the world. American guns don’t just kill Americans - they fuel the illegal gun trade and
gun violence world-wide. At least half of the illegal handguns recovered in Canada and 80% of crime guns in Mexico originate from the US. We have seen clear benefits from stronger gun control in Canada - the rate of firearm deaths is the lowest in 30 years, homicides with rifles and shotguns and the rate of women murdered with guns have plummeted. Certainly Canada's gun law is not perfect but we should address the gaps
in the system, not dismantle it. That is why police organizations - the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police and the Canadian Professional Police Association - along with every major public health, safety and domestic violence organization in Canada support the licensing of all gun owners and the registration of all guns.
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 15
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 8:33:02 PM
the states in the US that have the death penalty don't see any less crime, so i don't know how severe you want the repercussions to be. i think that's about as severe as it gets. there's work camps in texas, as well as death chambers, and it really doesn't prevent violence at all. poverty, discrimination, and abuse will always breed violence. until we fix the social problems in the country, it will continue.
 bubahotep2020
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 16
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/9/2008 8:34:41 PM
m409998m1


Your correct mentally ill people snap but my point is still made mentally ill people cannot legally purchase firearms.

The facts you brought up bring up interesting points however it doesnt show how many of those guns on both sides were legally owned. It doesnt show what the source material was to compile those stats and it also doesnt show how they were compiled. Also what are you qouting whats the source?

We are already required to liscense our firearms and register them. In california we are also required to go through a firearm safety course.

But guess what CRIMINALS DONT HAVE TO the weapons are readily availeble on the black market.

So if guns in this country are already registered. Whats your point?
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 17
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:18:47 AM

BTW, hunters, farmers, and hobby shooters at the ranges need guns

Wrong. Hunters, farmers, and hobby shooters WANT guns. They don't NEED them. That's a big difference. That would be like be saying that alcoholics NEED alcohol. Or that sex addicts NEED sex.


guns are not only used offensively to inflict harm on humans.

I never said they were. I simply said that their PRIMARY function is to destroy and/or inflict pain. I never said it had to only be humans.


- background checks don't mean 'squat' really. For example, just because I haven't killed anyone yet doesn't mean I never would ...

I beg to differ. There are many ex cons walking around with guns these days. A thorough background check can easily help prevent this. I had an uncle (by marriage) whom I found out had guns that his wife (my aunt) bought him. He is an ex con. Let's just say that after a couple of phone calls, he no longer has those guns. Now how many others are out there with them?


- Mostly, the people who follow the rules are not the ones to worry about.

Exactly. I'm not worries about the people who are not fallowing the rules. I am worried about the ones who are NOT fallowing them. And the only way to make me feel more safe is to target these individuals. And how do we do that? Not by selling guns at gun shows with absolutely no background checks, that's for damn sure.


- Too much regulations will only wind up with good law-abiding citizens being defenceless, leaving cops and criminals the only ones with guns.

Dude, that's like saying that if we lower the speed limit "too much" we would all be walking. What gun owners seem to have a hard time understanding is that limitations and laws are set into place to promote the safe practice of something. Just as traffic laws and regulations aren't established to prevent people from driving (except for offenders who do not need to be driving), proper gun control laws and regulations would not prevent people from owning and/or using firearms (except for offenders who should not own them).

No one said we need "too much" gun control. None of my suggestion would leave law abiding citizens defenseless. They are simply measures to prevent the criminals from getting them.

While there HAVE been some ridiculous suggestions in the past concerning gun control laws, it's not the ridiculous suggestions that we need to worry about being passed. We need to worry about the truly helpful suggestions that can prevent criminals from getting the guns.

Living in the south, I constantly hear gun owners talking about how their guns are used for protection. But I say that the best form of protection is a well established method of PREVENTION. This can be said for almost everything from home security, to homeland security. From the common cold to lung cancer.

Let me ask you this: If you are concerned that your daughter may get mugged at night, what would be more effective?

A. Teach her to only park in well lit, populated parking areas with security cameras.

B. Always be alert and aware of her surroundings and to immediately seek shelter or help at the first sign that something is wrong.

C. Basic hand to hand self defense training that will teach her to target vulnerable spots on her attacker such as eyes or the groin.

D. In case of trouble to yell "Fire" instead of "Help" since it's much more effective in getting people's attention.

E. Give her a gun.

Personally I would choose A through D before I would choose E. Why? Because the gun is the only one of these 5 things that can be turned against her if it fails. Most people would agree that it's better to walk away with a stolen purse than to not walk away at all.
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 18
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 2:52:53 AM
sweetness-one, i don't see how fixing the social problems that have brought us to the point of having gun battles in the streets appears as a bandaid fix. if anything, gun regulation is the bandaid fix, and the "real" fix would be to fix the necessity for teenagers and criminals to have guns in the first place. you may not feel as though there are socioeconomical problems that lead people to violence and crime, but that's an argument for another day. my point is mainly that putting restrictions on the already law abiding citizens doesn't keep the illegal unregistered guns out of the hands of criminals. and banning guns altogether really only benefits the criminals.

and about glorifying guns... i don't know about that. that's some hippie propaganda, just like the smoking thing in movies and tv shows. are you for the guns being replaced by walkie talkies in e.t.? how far does that stretch.. bad guys won't have guns anymore? or you don't want movies about bad guys being made in the first place. or good guys, who use guns.. you want them to all do martial arts or something? or use sticks? it's a nice idea, to take the guns out of pop culture, but as long as its entertaining to the people, i don't think the government has the right to take it away. if a rap artist wants to mention his glock, or if a studio wants to make a movie about a bank robbery, thats their own personal choice, and i don't think that there should be any government intervention to prevent that from happening. people look at everything ass backwards. yes, there are guns in movies. yes they are glorified. but there are people buying these movies. nobody is forcing them to, so there is an obvious demand on studios to make movies and tv shows with guns. rap artists sell albums that are full of violence.. and they are SELLING it, which means that people are BUYING it. the bigger issue is changing that mentality, changing the fixation people have on violence. but how do you fix that exactly.. does the government step in and say hey, you can't say glock on your own cd? does it go to the studio and say hey.. you gotta replace those guns with rubber mallets? seriously, it's not the movie or cd's fault, its the demand on the market that is at fault. of course, if we listen to sweetness, there are no social problems that are causing this trend, and there are no economical problems that are breeding violence. its just a bandaid fix to look at the bigger picture...?

people have a tendency to blame. there's a lot of problems in this country right now, and if you can't see it, then you're just blind. there's a lot going on that nobody seems to consider. instead of blaming the television and movie industry on the "glorification", maybe you should look at the media as a representation for what the public wants. and then assess why the public wants that, and why they can relate to it. gas is hitting 5 bucks a gallon, minimum wage in ny state is 7.15/hour, and this entire country is in debt. property taxes are skyrocketing, and everybody who can't afford their homes are moving into cheaper, poorer neighborhoods, where crime is much more intense. we're being force fed a materialistic urge that is overwhelming, yet we can't afford the gas it takes to drive to the stores to buy whatever we're being told to buy... and at the end of the day, the stress, violence, a general discontentment for civilization is rising... and people just want more laws? less violence in movies? i don't get how people can be so close minded, to the point where they'll blame just about anything to have some sort of scapegoat. all i know is, its not the media. the media is the last thing we have to worry about. its everything else. its lack of education, poverty, and everything else that lessens somebody's chances of being a productive individual in this country. if you think that it's a bandaid fix to work on these things, then you're just another part of the problem.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 19
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 4:54:10 AM

Funny thing,though, you never hear about this on the evening news because a non-crime isn't news

I will say that if a gun is ever used for self defense, then a law has been broken. Even if nothing more than simple assult.

No, the reason that you don't hear about many successfuly being used for self defense is because it pales in comparison to all of the non successful attempts.


Firearms are used (depending on who's doing the counting) between 1.5 million and 2.5 million times PER YEAR in self defense and, in most cases, without ever firing a shot.

This is a very believeable statistic since every time a police officer pulls his sidearm, a report is made whether he uses it or not. I would venture to say that the majority of these 1.5 to 2.5 million occasions were performed by these police officers and that would be why there are actually numbers on this. Most of the rest of these are probably convenient store clerks, which I think should all have guns as protection given that they are carrying and using them legally.
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 20
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 5:06:23 AM

Thanks but I don't live in Canada and last I read, the 2nd Amendment is still around.

I'm glad you brought up the second amendment, which reads:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

This was written in a time when the citizens of a state were the militia. And I would like to point out that even back then they understood that it should be "WELL REGULATED". This is a Strong argument for the establishment and enforcement of a good gun control program, which we are lacking.


And it's obvious to me that in Canada and Mexico, gun control doesn't work because criminals are still getting the guns.

There are some criminals who will always find a way to get guns. But that doesn't mean we should try to make it hard for them. Right now it is extremely easy for a criminal or even a minor to purchase a gun. Just look at the kids of the Columbine shooting.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 21
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:36:16 AM
Wowsad makes an excellent point, that alot of violence in the USA comes from social problems such as poverty and the despair that results.

I do favor the right of people to enjoy hunting and target shooting--after all I am from Smith & Wesson country. But I also favor reasonable rules and regulations to make sure that some whack job doesn't have access to guns and also to ensure the safe return of a gun to its rightful owner if it is stolen. The rules are there for a reason, to ensure public safety. They are not there to confiscate guns from legitimate owners who use them for hunting or target shooting.

Hardcandylick, as a gun owner, provides a valuable perspective on gun regulations. Nicely said! Training for gun owners is an excellent idea. Smith & Wesson continuously offers training for people who buy their guns. Many police and military personnel come to Springfield for their range training.

 bubahotep2020
Joined: 3/13/2006
Msg: 22
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 4:11:31 PM
Hardcandylick Have I lived in mexico nope. Do I want to Nope. Do I have access to threat analisys based on the actions of the drug cartels YES. Am I aware of what is happening there in different parts of mexico such as laredo which has had 3 police chiefs executed by cartels is less then 2 years, yes. Do I have knowledge of the fact that in 1997 the entire Baja california police force was disbanded due to rampant corruption and the head of that force charged with being paid off by the cartels? yes. Do I have knowledge of entire villages wiped out and buried in mass graves by the cartels seeking a state judical police informant? yes. And lets not get started on the kidnapping cartels that thrive on the borders. Do a search and you will find all this information in mexicos own newpapers, you will have to read spanish but they are there.

And what does carlos mencia have to do about anything thats been posted? He is an entertainer plain and simple. If you think that madonna, prince, cher, jack palance, or any of the other HUNDREDS of actors, actresses, and other entertainers who change there names are using thier real names then your deluded. plus if you have ever caught a show or even watched one he never calls himself mexican I would love to see the bit where he says he is mexican.

Again how does my liking carlos mencia invalidate a post made on gun control. Thats like saying that because a DR likes watching saturday night live that he shouldnt practice surgery. Thats idiotic. grow up mate
 RSwindol
Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 23
view profile
History
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 5:39:24 PM
Wowsad makes an excellent point, that alot of violence in the USA comes from social problems such as poverty and the despair that results.

This is true. Violence does stem from social issues. Guns are not the cause of violence. But in any skirmish, whether it be a bar room brawl or a "he stole my girl" a55 kicking, the presence of a gun can easily turn what should be a non fatal act of violence into a fatal one.

Most of the time when people are using a gun in any situation other than recreational use, they are not going to be thinking rationally. Their judgment will be impaired by the abnormal amount of adrenaline introduced into the blood stream as a result of their escalating emotional state which caused the gun to be drawn. This is exactly the wrong time in which a person should have a gun. It is at this very moment when people do things that they will later regret.

Guns alone are not bad. But guns mixed with people's poor intentions and lack of proper judgment can be very bad. This is why it is important to be careful who we arm.
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 24
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:33:13 PM
actually, the very strict gun control in those cities was instituted after the crime got to the point where across-the-board gun bans were the logical next step.
 wowsad
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 25
for the gun control people
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:39:58 PM

I, for one believe in the self regulation of our society , to a point. I wear a seatbelt, but dont think it should be a law.
I wear a helmet(airplane and motorcyles) but dont think it should be a law.


i used to feel this way, but then i realized that a lot of traffic accidents are caused by people who don't have health insurance, and it ends up being the car insurance companies and the state who pay the hospital bills. and that gets passed down to us.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > for the gun control people [CLOSED