|sexless marriagePage 1 of 8 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)|
|A healthy sexlife is important to any relationship. It sounds like you've had this problem throughout your marriage. Is she willing to discuss the problem? Express to her how much you love her and miss having a fulfilling sexual relationship with her. Ask her if there are any non-sexual reasons (perhaps latent hostility over something) that she is so withdrawn from you. If the answer is no, she just doesn't have a desire for sex, I would ask her to see her gynecologist to have a complete physical, including hormone levels. Good luck.|
Posted: 6/9/2008 11:56:05 PM
|Okay... First, I want to qualify my thoughts by saying I haven't read the book...|
Now picture this, ladies. Your husband, from the time you are married, supports your full-time career choice, takes care of domestic chores, cares for the children when they come along, remembers all the important dates and even does wonderful things for you for no reason at all. On top of all of this, he always puts your enjoyment first in the bedroom. Despite all of this, you shut down sexually almost from the beginning, seldom if ever initiate sexual liasons and never enjoying pleasuring your man.
Secondly, you've posted this in the "over-45" site where the majority of us have raised our children and been divorced. It's tough to "rewind" into a situation where hubby is looking after the kids so I'm going to skuttle that piece of your "visual".
Is your scenario one where the wife works and husband stays home? Is that what you mean by his "supporting her full-time career choice"? Is she also looking after the children and looking after domestic chores while working? Does she do wonderful things for him (other than in the bedroom)?
How old is the couple in the scenario? Are they older and had their kids late in life?
I ask these questions because I think it's always important to go to the physical problems that might exist that could be affecting someone's libido. It's only when those have been eradicated that a person can step into the psychological realm or try to take the relationship temperature.
Women shut down sexually for a number of reasons. But first, was this person originally quite passionate and then stopped?
The possibilities are endless. Here are just some:
1. She feels like she is "expected" to want to have a very active sexual life and that, all by itself, makes her feel like she is a utility rather than able to be sexual when she feels like being sexual;
2. She's old-fashioned and has a set of beliefs about certain bedroom acts being wrong or even feels that instigating sex would make her "cheap" (Not in your eyes but in her own);
3. She doesn't have the same sex drive as you do and hers is a lot lower;
4. She is working in a highly-stressful career and carrying her share of the child and housekeeping chore and she is simply tired;
5. She is depressed. When someone suffers from clinical depression, all the good treatment in the world doesn't increase their sex drive;
6. She is on medication that might be affecting her libido;
7. She resents him being at home with the kids while she is working a stressful position and perhaps feeling like it should be the other way around;
8. She doesn't find him desirable;
9. She doesn't love him;
10. She holds beliefs about what "good" women do and don't do.
That's just a few... Fill in the blanks and we'll see where it takes us...
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:01:14 AM
|I just realized I forgot a few. |
11. He's a player with other women and it makes her feel like "less" than special to him;
12. He's made denigrating remarks about her lack of libido, her body or her lovemaking skills;
13. His demands are so onerous that sex has become a chore rather than something pleasurable;
14. She resents him or something he's done;
15. She's having an affair and her needs are being met elsewhere...
Like I said, the possibilities are endless...
Posted: 6/10/2008 5:04:06 AM
I was shocked as I perused the book of that title to see that at one point the author actually concedes that one possibile manner to deal with this dilemma is acceptance.
" Accpetance?" Well, I guess so, if they're consenting adults.
Now picture this, ladies. Your husband, from the time you are married, supports your full-time career choice, takes care of domestic chores, cares for the children... Despite all of this, you shut down sexually almost from the beginning...
If there are children, then she did not "shut down sexually almost from the beginning." She pulled a switcheroo. Does your book make any fundamental distinction between that and couples who both choose celebacy?
Posted: 6/10/2008 5:59:25 AM
Honestly, what other factors could lead to such total shutdown on the part of the woman? Are their intangibles that I'm missing? Was the total commitment to the woman perhaps overwhelming?
Are you kidding me? Total commitment overwhelming to her?
You are dealing with the Human Psyche as it pertains to Sexuality...Other Factors? How high can you count.
Posted: 6/10/2008 6:18:26 AM
Honestly, what other factors could lead to such total shutdown on the part of the woman? Are their intangibles that I'm missing? Was the total commitment to the woman perhaps overwhelming? Gee, when you find the answer to that one....why don't you find out why some MEN feel the same way?
I'm with you OP. The sexual relationship is what differentiates lovers from just friends. Pardon my bluntness, but I think looking to excuse this selfish act is nothing more than a bunch of psychobabble designed to blame the victim. If people don't want a sexual relationship...then STAY SINGLE....PERIOD.
I had this argument the other night....AGAIN...with my ex. We've been divorced for 12 years, we're still friends...but he wants all the benefits of being married for himself, but still telling me that I'm a pig for expecting to have sex in a relationship.
Withholding sex, particularly in a MARRIAGE is nothing short of emotional abuse, manipulation and selfishness. It's like saying that their needs are important....but yours are PETTY. It's saying that they are allowed to have needs....but that YOU are not.
I don't care how long a list of justifications anyone comes up with; NORMAL human beings have sexual desires....and I might add, that those sexual desires, unlike in the rest of the animal kingdom, continue beyond the point of reproduction possiblilties. HELLO PEOPLE!!!! There must be SOME reason for that!
Posted: 6/10/2008 7:35:26 AM
|Accept a sexless marriage? YES Accept a life without sex? NO|
Posted: 6/10/2008 9:08:18 AM
|The old kid said it best."Accept a sexless marriage?Yes" because of many factor such as religon ,health issues, kids etc.Accept a life without sex? NO"|
If you tried all and nothing happend, get a spine and get out, simple isnt it?
Posted: 6/10/2008 9:13:55 AM
|Funny how things end up sometimes isn't it? I remember way back when I first|
met my ex. Just like a couple o rabbits! Then he changed, lost interest, or became too complacent with things as they stood. It was awful and it was so very lonely! I feel there is nothing better to keep a couple close than making love. Be it the slow, sensual connecting kind or the wham bam, OMG, get your clothes off NOW kind. Would I ever again put up with a sexless marriage? Nope. Then and again, I am not ever going to marry again anyway! But I think you get my point!
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:04:46 PM
I would have stayed in the marriage, stayed in the home I loved, not lost all our properties, and would have had affairs to keep from feeling so lonely and undesirable. A person who withholds sex yet wants their partner to stay with them doesn't deserve any better than that.
^^^And there you have it! Do people understand what it is they drive others to do when acting so selfish? We all get on about married folks wanting some on the side, but this is a prime example of why. Not that I condone it cuz I don't. But clearly, a great deal of harm is done to others when we withhold the very necessitites of a relationship!
Candy? I am damned glad to now able to enjoy the opportunity of having a willing partner in your life. Just sorry that you had to sacrifice to much to get it.
Posted: 6/10/2008 1:50:59 PM
|I wouldn't stay in a marriage where the sexual libido was that off balanced, no matter what that balance was. There are just too many other things one has no control over happening, but not being sexually happy with someone I'm going to spend the rest of my life with, no, that is something I can control. I don't need a spouse who won't be intimate with me, things happen that might have to be worked around, but a clashing libido, no thank you. The thing is, I wouldn't have stayed long enough to have children brought into it or to spend most my adult life and then think what??? it might work later, if it ain't working and it can't be fixed it's best to leave before so much is involved. Since you have put up with this all this time and done so much for her and getting nothing in return, why shouldn't she expect the status quo? What reason has she to change anything, she's got a great deal and has to put out zero effort. |
She shut down from the beginning, you stayed anyway, sounds like she's been honest with you, so why did you stay?
Posted: 6/10/2008 5:33:57 PM
|For me it would depend upon the situation and I hope I am not missing the boat here by what I am about to state.. But.. it would depend for me. Let's say I had a husband who could not have intercourse for what ever reason.. but he would kiss me passionately, hold me, give me physical touch.. you know there ARE other ways to express sexual desire than just intercourse. I have had the extreme good fortune to have a sexual interaction with someone from across the room before.. that left me breathess and wanting more. I had dated a man before with MS and he was in a wheel chair but the chemistry between us was magnetic.. we definately had strong sexual chemistry between us.. it is just that mechanics were different.. he had a way of looking at me into my eyes that showed me that he wanted me in a sexual context. I truely would have considered marrying him and spending the rest of my life with him if other things had worked out.|
So for me it would depend.. Now if I had a partner who never did hold me or kiss me or demonstrate his desire for me that would hurt terribly especially if it was a matter of his choice in the matter.
I honestly though think that a bond between a man and a woman can go much deeper than sex.. but I find it hard to believe if there is a close bond that some type of sexual energy between the two does not happen in some form or another whether there are mechanics involved or not.
I still think the greatest sex organ is the brain
Posted: 6/11/2008 12:35:37 AM
|My guess? More often than not, especially if both are young, is simply a general difference in libido. My first husband did fine right up through the honeymoon. Then it was basically once a month. He was fine with it. I wasn't. And I've known way too many men who found themselves in OPie's position. I think girls know very well that they are NOT interested in sex if they are not. They also know that the societal perks available in being married are NOT going to be available to them if they say so. So they use what nature gave them, pretend to be hot, and as soon as the knot's tied, say: well that's that. That goes for low libido guys, too. Some, I suppose, lie to themselves first. I do think more guys get caught than women. |
I personally also believe it's fraud, and should be punishable with jail time. Part of the marriage vow is love, and fraud ain't loving, on any level.
Please understand that disability, after the fact, falls into a completely different category. And I'm not under the illusion that poking and being poked is a substitute for actual love making.
Posted: 6/11/2008 10:37:26 PM
|AW, if I read the posts correctly -- *she* divorced him. . . .|
Posted: 6/12/2008 12:48:21 AM
|My first husband was great until we got married and then he was literally finished before the light bulb cooled...it was roll on, insert floppy, hump twice, roll off and start snoring on the way down. To me it just wasnt worth the effort so the last five years of the marriage were basically sexless, maybe once a year, some years. |
I have met two different men last fall, one was married for 14 years, after his wife had a baby he said they only had sex once a year on their anniversary. She wasnt comfortable with the way her body looked after a baby... However, I later found out that he likes to vocalize his sexual desires involving more multiple partners during the act, almost like a chanting ritual ...only knows two positions.
The other man was married for over 25 years...his wife thought sex was dirty. But then one day he told me he liked feet...then i remembered how much of our conversations had centered on feet. He was going to salons to have pedicures, would tell me how the other women there were so nice and friendly saying he was the only man they had ever seen there. I realize now he goes so he can galk at the women's feet. He also told me how he had ditched one girl he liked cause her feet were dirty, and how the parties him and his wife had all the people had to take off their shoes so no one would walk on their expensive carpet, etc. So maybe the wife did feel like sex with him was dirty.
These are just examples of things that show that there can be more than mets the eye when someone claims the marriage is sexless...basically the people werent sexually compatible.
Posted: 6/12/2008 1:38:08 PM
|The only way I'd stay in a sexless relationship is if it were due to health. If it were a health issue neither had control of then, loyalty would kick in.|
Posted: 6/13/2008 6:16:03 AM
|I think there are two sides to every story. But lack of interest in your partner is probably the main reason. People change and not always for the better. For me it was the Ex never caring about what I was feeling or ever supporting my needs.|
Posted: 6/13/2008 1:21:56 PM
|I suggest couples therapy. Usually when there is a problem with the sex between couples it is because there is a problem between the couple that has not surfaced and it gets manifested in the bedroom. Also if you have not done it already talk to your wife about it. There could also be a history of sexual abuse in her past. A good couples therapist would most likely help both of you to find an answer if you are both willing to invest the time energy and money. |
Posted: 6/17/2008 10:00:17 PM
|I was married for 21 years. 16 of them were sexless, NOT by MY choice. I am a taurus, ruled by Venus....mmmmm. So, why, you ask, was it sexless....|
Well, he is quite simply, Asexual. He was from the beginning. However, when we met up, (in '86) I'd been single for 4 years, so I had enough sex, I thought, to last a lifetime. He even asked me a month into our relationship if I was bothered by his lack of desire. At the time I said not, but over years it really took a toll on me.
I lost myself. But, I survived it and am that much stronger for doing my best to hang in there through better and worse.
Posted: 6/18/2008 7:08:56 AM
|WOW this sounds like my ex's picture of himself but how about the other side of the coin:|
Now picture this, ladies. Your husband, from the time you are married, supports your full-time career choice,
Yeap he supported "my" choise to keep food on the table rather then going on welefare, while he surfed porn on the computer all day.
takes care of domestic chores,
uh huh, so did he as long as it didn't include, cleaning the bathroom, making beds,doing laundry, or a vaccum sweeper.
cares for the children when they come along,
this one doesn't apply the kids were there before he was and he did a great job of ruling thier every move, and thought. Had them terrified to breath without permission.
remembers all the important dates
yes what a joy it was to pay for my own christmas and birthday gifts.
and even does wonderful things for you for no reason at all.
wonderful by whose standards? Did that wonderful dinner you cooked leave her a giant mess in the kitchen to clean up? Did that night on the town take the money for the light bill?
On top of all of this, he always puts your enjoyment first in the bedroom.
Despite all of this, you shut down sexually almost from the beginning, seldom if ever initiate sexual liasons and never enjoying pleasuring your man.
Yes how dare I say I didn't like the way he told me I enjoyed sex, and yeah every womans dream of great sex critical comments about their performance.
Honestly, what other factors could lead to such total shutdown on the part of the woman?
Are their intangibles that I'm missing? Was the total commitment to the woman perhaps overwhelming?
other factors ?
Intimate encounters consisted of being attacked the minute I walked in after work for a quicky before the kids came in from school, or at 10-11 oclock at night when my work schedule had me up at 3AM to be to work by 4.
The fact that on average he took a bath once ever two weeks, may have had something to do with it and he didn't own a toothbrush.
Got tired of being told to cover up because my fat discusted him as his weight topped the 300 lb mark.
I'm not saying I was the perfect wife but I was tired, stressed and sex with him just wasn't worth staying up for. Maybe if he had been the wonderful husband he made everyone think he was we wouldn't be divorced today.
Not saying you are him but maybe you ain't as great as you see yourself?
Here's an idea have you asked her? If so did you listen to the answer?
Posted: 6/20/2008 4:57:09 AM
Now, alori61 obviously lived through a very difficult relationship, and I am glad she is on the other side of it. I must, however, say that none of the stereotypical male behaviors she addresses nor those particular to her situation were true in my case. I loved my wife and cared for she and my children. Everything I did for them, I did out of my love for them (though certainly any of us sometimes do things out of a sense of duty, just because we're too tired to feel anything else; that too is love).
In my case, I reached a point in which the one-sided nature of the relationship got to be too much for me to bear (and I'm not just talking about in the bedroom), and I spoke up, asking that she consider my needs and concerns and those of our children. This was when things really took a downhill turn. From then on, we became more and more estranged; basically, two strangers sharing a house with our children living through this difficult situation.
I am one of those individuals who always looks in the mirror first and , trust me, I spent many days and nights analyzing my situation and character, reading self-help books on relationship issues and seeking counseling on my own. But, contrary to the book title that suggests this, I don't think one of you can bring the two of you together unilaterally.
I do still, however, think about things I might have done differently or how I might have been more understanding of her feelings, as foreign as they were to my experience. That's the reason I wrote this post. Finally, I think that this was the crux of the issue: We were from two very different worlds, mine very open and accepting, hers very exclusive and alienating. This impacted our relationship in and out of the bedroom. In fact, the description one of you gave of a man just humping and rolling over to go to sleep was very similar to my "lovemaking", though my wife was the one who would basically get her jollies then lay there passively while I attempted to "make love" to her. I told one friend of mine, I felt like I was masturbating inside another person. Not a very nice picture, huh?
I did not accuse you of any of the things I posted I was simply pointing out how two people can have two different views of the same situation. Which is what I thought you meant when you said no holds barred. I responded based on your initial hypothetical scenerio, look at the post times you will see you had not responded to the thread when I started writing it.
This morning I would have to say the face one wears in public is not necessarily the face worn in private.
Posted: 6/20/2008 6:51:03 AM
|Realizing the women would probably prefer to blame quality of relationship, emotional/pscyhological problems, I suggest that health could be suppressing a man's libido. It's not always "I'm OK (remains to be proven), but HE won't have sex with me". Maybe he's not OK, and his libido suffers. Ladies, don't always take it personally.|
There was a report in an UK newspaper online that I can't find now about a poll in UK that said men over 40 simply "can't be bothered" with sex. There's not a lot of bother involved, but with no or little libido, even a little bother can be sufficiently discouraging.
This week, a report of mysteriously low sperm counts in Missouri (but not low baby counts) over a wide range of men and geography. The report said sperm counts were even lower than the famously low sperm counts for New York City. The Danes reported low sperm counts a couple decades ago, declining steeply from when records were first kept. Low sperm counts are the men's fault? Are low sperm counts "associated with" low libido?
50%+ of adult men are overweight/obese, very probably out of shape, with atrophied muscles, inefficient lungs, perhaps pre-diabetic, early/advanced CVD in progress, metabolic syndrome. Overweight men with unknown CVD often have varying degrees ED, a strong predictor of CVD.
Chronic sleep deficit, borderline depression, anti-depressants reduce libido.
The US is dramatically over-medicated. Something like 51% of all US adults are on at least one prescription medicine, and that goes up with age. A lot of medications suppress/kill libido, esp anti-depressants, usage of which is rampant.
Chemicals from plastic food/water container that leach into the food are estrogen analogs. Excess estrogen in a man reduces testosterone, killing libido. Estrogen analogs at/near conception are suspected in the great recent increase in male hypospadias.
Does low testosterone matter? Older men with low circulating testosterone have 2.5 times greater risk of death within 10 years from all causes than men with testosterone in normal range. (Exercise solicits the production of testosterone for growth and maintenance of muscles.)
2/3 of all US adult women, 50% of all adult men, and even higher for over-45s, are overweight or obese. Could one's excess weight be a libido-killer for the other person? Nah, impossible.
I'll leave it to the women to catalog the libido killers for women.
The point is that libido is normally robust when we are young, child-producing, and health is strong and hormones flowing. It can stay robust for decades, but fragile libido is assaulted from all sides by bad lifestyle, bad diet, environmental chemicals, pharmaceuticals, disease. Perhaps his rocket fizzles because his launch platform is shot.
btw, one definition of sexless marriage is broader than no copulation, by including couples who copulate 10 or fewer times per year.
Posted: 6/20/2008 7:57:15 AM
|I haven't read all the replies but as far as I'm concerned if two people love each other there is no excuse for a lack of sex. |
The strangest excuse I've heard people utter is, "I'm not in the mood." Since when is being in the mood a requirement for doing things for our partner?
Cooking dinner, weeding the garden, cutting the lawn, grocery shopping, cleaning the house....when was the last time anyone heard their partner say, "Honey, I'm really in the mood to clean the bathroom!"
Compared to the many things we do for our partner few take less time and energy than sex and there are multiple ways of sexually satisfying ones partner regardless of most medical conditions.
To refuse to sexually satisfy ones partner is a height of selfishness and there is no reason for anyone to accept it.
Posted: 6/21/2008 5:03:54 PM
|here's the article about low testosterone "associated with" 2.5 greater risk for all-cause mortality within 10 years, and the study was not "older men" but age 20 - 79.|
Posted: 6/21/2008 6:29:54 PM
(Msg 65) I have to say.. I don't understand Dave1234.. comparing "chores" to having sex with a loving partner? ............... Where's the feeling.. the mutual love.. in "performing" sex out of a "sense of duty" as opposed to waiting until both are "in the mood" to make passionate love?
People's sex drive differs. Certainly having sex when two people are all fired up is fantastic but my point is one does not have to be in raging heat before engaging in sex.
If two people are in a relationship I assume they already love and care for each other. That being the case one would want to have sex just because they do love and care for each other.
The point I was getting at is what makes sex so repulsive just because one is not burning hot? The lying together and the carresses and the small talk are all part of the experience. Isn't it enjoyable without having to be "in the mood" before one starts?
(Msg 66) Cleaning the bathroom?
While I am doing that, I can be thinking of many other things... it's somewhat a mindless activity.
Having sex/making love?
Does not compare. Silly Dave1234.
What I find silly is the way people react to sex if they're not in the mood. What, exactly, makes it so terrible if they're with someone they love? What is the imposition? What makes it seem so unattractive? If they love the person they are with aren't they happy to spend a little time pleasing them? What could be easier?