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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?      Home login  
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 Kignmaker
Joined: 1/2/2008
Msg: 2
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
He can not embrace his Muslim Heritage.
He not Muslim, it been said many times in these threads.
So if he embrace his Muslim Heritage. Then all the posts about him being Muslim would be wrong.
It would also blow his chances of becoming President if he did.
 Singlemaltgirl
Joined: 12/31/2004
Msg: 4
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/3/2008 3:23:50 AM
Many Muslim voters love Barack Obama. They love him even if he doesn't seem to love them back.


why does one have to be muslim in order to love muslims back? given the rheotoric that i've heard from obama, he seems to take a view that all americans (regardless of cultural or religious affiliations) should show a little more tolerance for each other. that doesn't sound like such a bad thing. perhaps that's why muslims love him? they see an end to the intolerance they've been feeling since 9/11?

but he still has to be careful about public perception - any misstep could be interpreted by the american people in the wrong light and we have to remember he is campaigning to be the next president of the us. there are still many americans who equate their fear of terrorism with their fear of muslims.

as for embracing his muslim heritage...that's like asking someone who's extended family was catholic so even though they weren't raised or baptized so, they should embrace the Church. if someone told me to "embrace" my hindu heritage, i'd be insulted since i already have a faith that i've chosen...as an adult. i think obama has done the same...like millions of other people.
 h0ldfast
Joined: 12/19/2006
Msg: 6
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/3/2008 9:40:30 AM
Obama's consultants have crunched the numbers and decided that distancing himself from his Muslim heritage is the strategy most likely to bring in the votes. If he wins the presidency, he will probably be a bit more open, but for now, he will stick to his script. Remember Bill Clinton's election campaign, where Hillary Clinton started handing out cookie recipes to appear more domestic? Politicians do what it takes to get into office.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 7
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/3/2008 10:33:53 AM
As has been said, Obama must think strategically as a candidate. Would he get more votes by "embracing his heritage"? No. His heritage is already well-chronicled. Is there a big Muslim pro-McCain movement? Highly doubtful. He only leaves himself wide open to the rampant Islamophobia in this country if he focuses on it.

Smaltgirl, I think that a majority of the intolerance is from a lack of outcry from the muslim community against islamic terrorism. If more spoke up, then that would ease the fear and conception that a majority of muslims condone the actions of the radical muslims, who are hijacking the religion.

With a lack of concerted outcry, it indicates approval of acts of terror.

Islam is not a highly centralized religion. It doesn't have famous spokespersons like Graham, Robertson, or the Pope. The outcry is there, but it is not given much of a voice outside of the internet. One has to actually look for the outcry; it won't come to your front doorstep in a country that generally does not seek to vindicate Muslims. The article you posted alludes to this fact.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 8
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/3/2008 12:20:26 PM
Yes, I wish he would embrace his Muslim past.
I wish he would embrace his Christian heritage.
I wish he would embrace all the religions of this country.

We Americans are amazingly religiously tolerant as a whole.
For Obama to try to deny his own religious diversity is only playing the bigots game.
He should trust the American people's natural curiosity and acceptance of different religious points of view. It would make him a better man and president.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 19
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/3/2008 11:51:54 PM
Obama should take the Seinfeld approach to this issue: "Just to be clear-- I am not, nor have I ever been, a Muslim... not that there's anything wrong with that!"
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 22
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:32:18 AM

the fact that Obama seems to be sweeping the potential problems under the rug,

Can you detail what the potential problems are?
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 26
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:15:33 AM
OK, I plead guilty. I didn't read the Luttwak article, but now I have. Wow. What a lame op-ed piece. No need to worry Southernlass! If your concerns were based on that specious article, your concerns are easily allayed. Here's a link I quickly found-- from a website called "Racialicious." Pretty humorous, I must admit. The author called the Luttwak article "craptastic."

http://www.racialicious.com/2008/05/13/ny-times-op-ed-obama-is-president-apostate/

In short, Obama is not considered a Muslim by any doctrinal laws.
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 27
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:18:58 AM

"At the very least, that would complicate the security planning of state visits by President Obama to Muslim countries, because the very act of protecting him would be sinful for Islamic security guards. More broadly, most citizens of the Islamic world would be horrified by the fact of Senator Obama’s conversion to Christianity once it became widely known — as it would, no doubt, should he win the White House. This would compromise the ability of governments in Muslim nations to cooperate with the United States in the fight against terrorism, as well as American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad.



More complicated than statements like "I'm a born-again Christian"..."This is a Crusade"?

Frankly, I'd say his roots give him a distinct advantage in dealing with them....understanding nuances in language, culture and beliefs actually gives him the upper hand.

"Export democracy"....HA....utter tripe....you can persuade...cajole... hell...even cottle... but you sure as hell can't export it like it's a widget.

Since when do Islamic security guards protect the President of the US?

There's nothing like logical conclusions based on illogical belief...
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 30
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:11:27 AM
Lots of fear in these people

Sure a lot of fear here, with just a dash of "Wrath of God":

And when the US of A becomes overun by Muslims,..

MAY GOD STRIKE YOU DOWN WITH ONE MIGHTY SWIFT BLOW OF HIS HAND !
 Lario
Joined: 5/2/2005
Msg: 32
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:10:53 PM
IF he is elected... look for him to do just that.
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 33
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:21:06 PM
a leader can do his/her best to be a chief executor, but as said by the NAACP recently in their magazine, the real change can only come from the bottom up. if he offers, hope, then great. but still, it is WE who have to do the work.

specifically, you raise TWO issues: his heritage and the racism and ignorance towards moslems. this is very complex and woven into even other issues, but i'd like to take a stab at it. i hope it's not too "all over the place" as really it takes hours and hours of communication and not just one person writing.

starting with embracing one's heritage, i can only think of my similar situation. my grandparents were russian jewish, escaping prison camp in siberia. in my core family, however, there was not jewish upbringing in the sense of religion. my grandfather did pass on from his village, however, that there is G-d in everyone. thus far, he told of Jesus having a lot of G-d in him and explained that the jews thought a messiah was still coming with even more G-d. (i might add that was pretty powerful stuff coming from an illiterate man, who was raised and told this in a peasant village).

so, i guess you can say we were "ethnic" jews in a sense, but in a larger sense we were really ethnic new yorkers. i was exposed to all religions, including jewish but not limited and was brought up to respect all people. being i lived in an irish catholic neighborhood, i guess that in many ways affected me the most in the formation of my "spirituality", but unlike my catholic friends i was able to take what i wanted and leave the rest. in my later profession, i worked with many catholic organizations. but i was not catholic, had moslem AND hindu friends (whose parents and grandparents had suffered the train rides back home) and was pretty much eclectic.

getting to the point....................if you have a heritage, but were not brought up in it, you can honor it as you do ALL peoples, but to become it or embrace it--any more than any other--is just not doable. at least, for me.

now, the question becomes should you embrace it any "less". and that is your second question/implication. politcally speaking, he has to play a low profile in this instance as do/have the other candidates. why, i think we all know but in not accepting perhaps expect him to fix it overnite?

there is a lot of ignorance in the usa against the moslem religion, as you can see very often on POF. although i think POF is way worse compared to what i have seen in person and having travelled across the usa. obama has to deal with fears against being "black" the more visually obvious to most (even though like tiger, he is clearly bi-racial --at least). as an intellectual and one who is trying to be out of the old loop, he needs to stay focused on who HE is and his eclectic self and what he purports. if a protestant was of french descent or british, no one asks them to embrace their heritage, but because he is not, he is on the firing line. remember, we only had one catholic president, all the rest were protestant!!!!

a few years ago, i attended several different gatherings where moslem and hindu leaders were present. both sectors, similar to jews in the past, were gathering their flocks and not reaching out and educating. since all these prejudicial horrors that presented after 911 and the horrific backlash towards them, as towards the japanese in WW II, many have been forced to come out and start this process. most "christians" and even "jews" have no clue, about these religions. they know the differences a tiny bit, but do not know the similarities. such as the koran and the emphasis upon mary, the mother of christ. i was just explained a lot of this a couple years ago, by an old moslem scholar.

so, while running, yes, obama only has a few months and he needs to keep a low profile to keep the focus on his platform and not all the hate digressions. we, however, as non moslems need to step up and get educated and embrace our fellow humans. not only moslems but those from india and other countries who reside here. moslems, hindus, et al on the other hand--need to come out and start actively aculturating those who have no clue. add to that not only the vietnamese, but the cambodians and other major groups who have come here later on in the scheme of things. they too have stories to tell, like my grandfather's story.

the other issue, is that those raised in cosmopolitan areas and younger people who have met in college, hi tech and health industry fields, etc. have had greater exposure to one another. now the trains that went between india and pakistan are taught in school, but not when i went or even when my friends in their thirties went. we were told none of this.

on the other end, a good part of the usa is farm, suburban, isolated, less integrated. some of the older folks, who have not been in opportune scenarios to meet one another, have also not had the chance to "understand". so, if you are in this category, maybe an avid church goer, try what they did in the silicon valley and encourage different church leaders to integrate with one another and then have cultural exchanges with their different congregations.

this is not something obama can do while running. this is something WE all need to do. when elected, anyone not addressing these issues is not gonna bring the backwards part of the usa forward. the world is becoming international with lots of layers to this new dimension. people need to stop thinking vertically and think horizontally --across different sectors. he could be the facilitator of these kinds of things, but he needs willing constituencies to reach above the petty and safe, to face what needs to be done.

despite my liberality, oddly i used to have a lot of conservative clients. why? because we focused on the goal, our different ways of seeing how to get there and then with broader perspectives, we got the job done. again, i had willling and concerned clients.
likewise, those of us, who want to stop the hate against moslems and all others, need to step up to the plate and stop waiting for a leader to do it. a leader can only lead. there are so many issues on the table right now, i don't know how we ever even managed not to blow this planet up entirely. so, for keeping it still rotating, i guess we demonstrate that we do have it in us to stop pointing fingers and start doing the work.
 garden-artist
Joined: 2/20/2008
Msg: 34
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:28:08 PM
The idea that one must "embrace" one's "heritage" is nonsense. What heritage? How far back? What do the beliefs of your ancestors or distant relatives have to do with the way you conduct your life?

Why should one bow to the mistaken beliefs of others, who decide that YOU look like you should be this or that heritage? I mean, should we assume that every blue-eyed blond is a result of the Nazi breeding farms, and should "embrace" the horror of that eugenics movement? I think not. It would be very rude to do so.

If you go back far enough, EVERY person has other religions and politics in their ancestry. Llook at the proliferation of Christian denominations, for goodness sake! In the pre-christian eras, all people were pre-christian -- that is, pagan or other religions. The word "Pagan" comes from an old word (Ancient Greek, I believe) that means "of the country" -- so for thousands of years it was very "patriotic" to be pagan! Who on this list wants to be bullied or pushed to embrace their pagan heritage, if that is not their chosen religion personally? :)

There is no reason one should embrace a culture or belief which is not one's own. What one can do is try to understand that other cultures exist -- and why they exist.

I can think of a few republicans who are pushing away from their political heritage, after seeing what following so meekly and blindly can do. (Sigh).

Garden Artist
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 35
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 2:24:09 PM
How sad, I didn't know Obama was a radical Christian, Muslim, Athiest.
 teeajay
Joined: 1/29/2008
Msg: 36
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:00:29 PM
OP: The problem is in the way you premised the notion. For starters, your use of the word "embrace."

To embrace means to espouse, to adopt, to accept, to take up the cause of some ideology.

Clearly, as Obama has been a Christian for 20+ years, to wonder why he should "embrace" the religion of others, including that of his forebears, is moot.

This holds true regardless of whether or not one characterizes him as a Muslim apostate or a never-was (a Muslim).

It's just as pointless to ask Liz Taylor, a Jewish convert, to "embrace" Catholicism, merely because she was once upon a time a Catholic and/or the offspring of Catholic parents.

Indeed, if a devout Jewish convert (ex-Christian) were asked "Why won't you eat ham?," the answer is self-evident---that is, because he is NOW a devout Jew and isn't about to start eating pork just because his ancestors did or even if HE himself did once. Moreover, it is not incumbent on that person to either condone or condemn the ways of his relatives.

Furthermore, by the definition of his "conversion" (if that's what you want to call it), Obama CANNOT technically "embrace" Islam if he wishes to be a Christian. He can honor and respect certain aspects of Islam (which he has stated publicly), but, as a Christian, he cannot claim a "dual religion" status.

So, if the aim of this post (as purported by the OP) is to merely to ask why doesn't Obama "embrace" his Islamic heritage, the answer is self-explanatory.... duh! because he's a Christian.

TJ
 teeajay
Joined: 1/29/2008
Msg: 38
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:41:17 PM
GospelSteel:

Point of fact: Obama is not a "born again" Christian. He is Christian convert.

As for his pro-choice position, I am sure Obama is not worried about not getting the vote of fervent right-to-lifers such as yourself.

This is not to say you don't have a legitimate gripe -- you do, but like a lot of issues, this one is rife for exaggeration.

Obama isn't for indiscriminate abortions, and his recent stand against the ban on partial-birth abortions is predictated on permitting an exception (with respect to the health of the mother). It's his desire to avoid a "slippery slope" argument to take hold which would lead to a ban WITHOUT exception.

TJ

TJ
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 39
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:54:47 PM
This is why organized religion of any kind is an abomination to God!!!

First of all, I don't care what faith anyone has. Faith is a private matter. Second of all, the whole Obama going to burn in hell thing is freaking rediculous. What ever happened to the judge not lest ye be judged?

If God is omnipotent, then he knows if a fetus os going to be aborted, so he wouldn't place a soul in it. If God Doesn't exist, then what does it matter? It is a paradox. God doesn't care about our trivial problems. If he cared, he wouldn't allow evil people like Bush to rise to power.

Obama is a good man, who will do a fine job as president. Your vote was never in play, so why should any of us care what you think of his faith? You support Bush, who never even goes to church, but question Obama's faith because his precher was radical. Talk about hypocracy!
 teeajay
Joined: 1/29/2008
Msg: 40
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:54:58 PM
Sanderick:

It was YOU who posted the thread and created the subject line. ~Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage~, the similar title to the Afeef article, notwithstanding.

Additionally, it was YOU who said

~QUESTION: Should Obama quit acting like having a Muslim Heritage is a bad thing and just embrace it and overcome it?~

The words were echoed by YOU.

My point is you premised this thread on a silly premise.

It's also disingenuous of you to bring up a spurious notion and then claim the "It's not me, I'm only just telling you what I heard" argument. This is sophistry at best, gossip/dissemination of false information at worst.

As I said, this issue of Obama "embracing" his Islamic heritage is a nonstarter.

BTW... I am not an Obama supporter.

TJ
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 42
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:32:15 AM
That is another case of pure ignorance. Please stop repeating lies. It is infuriating that you resort to that. Sweedish, French, etc are national origins. They aren't even races. Islam is a faith. You don't get a genetic code for Islam, it isn't hereditary. Saying someone has a Muslim background because an ancestor was islamic is just pure stupidity or lies. Learn the difference, please.
 teeajay
Joined: 1/29/2008
Msg: 43
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:54:39 AM
Exodusi1 ~Saying someone has a Muslim background because an ancestor was islamic is just pure stupidity or lies~

It's also the stuff of comedy writers.

Consider the movie "Groundhog Day," in which the piano teacher is amazed how well Phil (Bill Murray) plays the piano, despite presumably never having played before:

Piano Teacher: ~ Not bad... Mr. Connors, you say this is your first lesson? ~
Phil: ~ Yes, but my father was a piano mover, so... ~

TJ
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 45
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 8:31:15 AM
The answer to the question is no because it's irrelevant and others only want it to be relevant for their own reasons including Mr. Afeef.

Mr. Afeef should embrace that not all people are Muslim and stating such is not Islamaphobia.

Perhaps his perception could be different if anyone ever asked about Obama's Muslim "heritage" in such a way that wasn't a self serving accusation. Has it ever been "Mr. Obama, are you a Muslim"? No, it's always been "Obama's a terrorist agent!". Obama's responses have always been in addressing the Islamaphobia of others.

As for Islamaphobia, Mr. Afeef could possibly take the mantle as a Muslim to lead other Muslims in showing that Islam is not hatred and murder. Islamaphobes don't fear Muslims because of the policies of US congressmen and candidates. They fear Muslims because of the actions of some and the silence about those actions by others.
 teeajay
Joined: 1/29/2008
Msg: 48
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:00:38 AM
Sanderick: ~Mr. Afeef is NOT a comedy writer.~

Nobody said he was.

In any case Mr. Afeef and the article he wrote is not relevant.

Again, you're missing the point that several people in this thread have been able to grasp quite easily.

A "heritage", by definition, involves practices that are handed down from the past by tradition. As such one may speak of a "heritage of freedom."

However, an organized religion, be it Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, or even Atheism are NOT heritable practices in the genetic sense. One's offspring need not adopt any of these doctrines! They can pay lip service to them and attest positively to them, but they DO NOT HAVE TO ADHERE to them themselves!

Hence, the whole question of whether or not a person SHOULD "embrace" (inappropriate term) a "heritage" (inapplicable expression) is silly!

Just as silly as one saying he has an aptitude for music because his father was a paino MOVER!
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 50
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:24:10 AM
It is just more of the same thing over and over and over. Distract the masses with meaningless diatribe to sway them from voting their interests.

Democrats are out to take your guns. . . Boogy Boogy.

Democrats are going to tax you. . . Boogy Boogy.

Democrats don't believe in God. . . Boogy Boogy.

Democrats are going to lett all the criminals out of jail. . . Boogy Boogy.

Democrats will let the terrorists win. . . Boogy Boogy.

How about a strategy that actually discusses the topics? Would that be too much to ask for?
 teeajay
Joined: 1/29/2008
Msg: 55
Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:46:37 PM
Vvendy.

Now you're just messing with semantics.

Many people, such as yourself, believes that anyone who becomes a Christian is "born again." The definition varies, but in any event is moot.

Obama was never a Christian until he became one 20+ years ago. Prior to that, by his admission, he had essentially NO religion (including Islam).

Thanks for your proselytizing, just the same. However, I have no interest in the subject or the discussion of same, especially in this thread which addresses a different topic altogether.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 58
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Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 3:50:45 PM
That's too funny! But even putting it at the Sesame Street level isn't going to explain it to the groups that keep trying to "Swift Boat" Obama. It is the only way they know how to win.


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