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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!      Home login  
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 georgiabulldogfan
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 1
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
I would definately like to see the United States start drilling our own oil so we can be dependant from other countries. IMO i'm sick and tired of all this go green talk and how we should use alternative ways of getting by. Sorry but we just ain't there yet, but if you want to buy a electric car go right ahead chevy will have one in a couple of years that cost 35,000 dollars. I don't have that kind of money, we be much better off as a nation to start drilling offshore. McCain is all for it Obama is against it so I guess McCain got my vote.

So how do others feel about this most important issues of the 21st century?
 musicianfriend
Joined: 7/23/2007
Msg: 2
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/12/2008 5:40:00 PM
watch this video and you will see why they will never and refine in our own country...


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&q=the+non+energy+cri
sis&ei=EZRvSJWBGoyYrAKghqiBAw&hl=en

 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 5
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/12/2008 9:39:07 PM
OP seems to have the delusion that domestic oil would be cheaper than imported oil.

Dream on.

West Texas oil is at $144/barrel, that's why the imported stuff is so expensive.

My reply in another thread (IMHO this one is redundant and should be deleted):

1.) OPEC doesn't set the price of a barrel of crude, Wall Street does.

2.) Global oil prices are based on the price of "West Texas Intermediate." The last time I checked, Texas was still part of the US.

3.) The US imports more oil from Canada than from OPEC.

4.) More US domestic production won't influence the price of gas at the pump. The same global industry that controls imported oil also owns the domestic US leases.

5.) More drilling, anywhere, won't lower pump prices for years, if at all, and the oil industry isn't drilling those leases in the US precisely because they know that. Imported oil is still cheaper than US domestic oil.

6.) There is no quick, easy, painless fix for the price of oil. It's a finite resource, we've used up all the easily obtained stuff, demand will continue to increase and production will decrease and oil prices will rise, unless we develop some of the alternatives.

We could become a lot more energy independent if we focused on developing wind, solar, wave and tidal sources, and yes, nuclear plants. Most of these will require massive Federal subsidies, but it's probably money better spent than bailing out financial institutions that are failing because of their own stupidity and greed.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 7
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:26:44 AM
We could manufacture 'facts' that say the Canadian Gvt. is a state supporter of terror and use that as an excuse to invade and cause a regime change.
It would be cheaper and less hassle than needing to send our aircraft carriers to the middle east. Heck, people can fly to Cuba from Canada so they have no respect of our trying to starve the Cubans into submission.

On the other hand, we could put electric trolley systems back into service. Remember them, the oil barons successfully had them removed to have us become dependent on them.


We could offer companies incentives to turn their workforces into jobs we can do from home. Why get in your car drive to a building where you sit in front of a computer all day and then drive home again. Employees can get up in the morning and walk to their computers, log on and be at work till they log off. Not only does it save on the cost of fuel for the employees, it reduces the demand for oil in the cars and buildings they work in.
This technology is here today. I have servers on my desk at home that are configured for remote access and provide remote telecom services to people that connect them together as if they are in the same building. It is much less expensive than one would expect as big companies usually like the graft associated with expensive systems and want complete control over their employees to feel secure.
Insurance companies will loose their income from premiums on auto insurance as drivers will only need their cars to get groceries to get to the grocery stores and almost everything else they need can be delivered via UPS and insurance companies won't be able to charge for work place accidents AND accidents in the home because it's the same place.

There's a lot we can do without worrying about off shore drilling or alternative energy but those insurance and oil lobbyists won't want that to happen because they will lose money.
 TheOneWho_
Joined: 3/22/2007
Msg: 8
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:46:49 AM
Get Both.
$5/gal fuel is bleeding us, and we don't have a (viable) alternative. Electric vehicles still require energy. Hydrogen power cells work, though they cost dollars per mile vs. cents per mile.

Developing alternatives will take a long time. Drilling now will take a long time, though not as long.

So.... Drill & pump more now while we develop better alternatives. Why is this difficult to understand?
 o4
Joined: 4/7/2007
Msg: 9
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:05:25 AM
Ultimately, we need to get off of our crude diet. However, you don't turn a battleship on a dime either. Short term interim solution: We need to drill. Long term solution: Encourage alternative energy methods. (btw: do a search on "Tesla Electric Cars" - very exciting!). And, as MSJA suggests, corn is another great solution also among many other solutions!
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 11
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:09:28 PM

we spend 700 billion on imports ...Give the green light to drill and recover a trillion barrels from our own shores would make oil drop like a stone .. If Norway discovered a trillion barrels it would drop , same holds true for any discovery that large ,,Now imagine you not only have these reserves but you actually seek to recover them.. Our Trillion barrels are worthless to the market price BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS WE ARE NOT TAPPING INTO IT...


The US has 21 BILLION barrels of "proven" reserves. Bakken, ANWR, and offshore fields may double that, eventually.

The total "proven" global reserves is just over a trillion barrels, but the OPEC numbers are suspect- their reserve numbers don't diminish at the same rate as production, which may mean their reserves are overstated by 50% or more.

Even if all the untapped reserves in the US were developed overnight, it would amount to less than six years of total US consumption.

The only viable long-term solution is to develop alternative energy sources (including nuclear, wind, solar, tidal and wave, finding methods for extracting petroleum from oil shale, and liquifying coal) and use less oil.

More drilling is inevitable, but it's a diminishing resource, and not a long-term solution; and it's only going to get more expensive.

By comparison, Saudi Arabia has about 230 billion barrels of oil in reserve.

More oil is imported onto the US from Canada than any other source, their proven reserves are second to the Saudis'.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 13
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 1:56:50 PM

Canada leads in imports to the US yet we, as the general public, are led to believe it's the Saudis who control the market.


Check out http://www.eia.doe.gov/

The general public in the US likes to be spoon-fed diluted versions of events, and prefers not to hear things that might interrupt our hedonistic and wasteful way of life, but the information is readily available to those who are willing to look for it.

Keep in mind that network news is "dumbed down" to about the 6th grade level of understanding (in contrast to political posturing, which seems to be aimed at mindless, ignorant morons). Anything that can't be condensed into a ten-second "sound bite" is considered "too cerebral" for us poor dumb taxpayers. Rather than debating serious matters of consequence, the candidates are debating fluff and posturing for idiots.


The main argument I've encountered on other forums has been the reason we invaded Iraq was to stop Hussein from entering the Euro market.


Most significant about trading in Euros is that it's a slap in the face of US international prestige. From a completely practical perspective, it really wouldn't matter so much. The reason it's traded in dollars has been the dollar's reliable stability, but Dubya's lack of attention to the economy has seriously destabilized it.

Bush, the Elder, Dubya's Daddy, defanged and declawed Saddam in Gulf War 1, but Saddam hid in denial and eventually began to believe his own fairy tales of omnipotence; isolated from reality by a corps of frightened (and rightfully so) "yes" men, the aptly-nicknamed "Butcher of Bagdhad" (a crude, ignorant thug who had murdered his way into the Presidency) hoodwinked the West into believing he still had huge stockpiles of deadly weapons (really, what competent, rational military commander would have wasted the entire arsenal on a group like the Kurds?) (oh that's right, we're talking about Saddam-). So Saddam, the poor dimwit, pulled one over on Dubya (who is not to be confused with a rocket scientist himself) and managed to systematically do everything humanly possible to make matters worse for himself.

History may well call this the "War of the Not-So-Bright."
 Crash1967
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 14
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 4:13:47 PM
two false choices.....

but anyway... of course long term solutions are going to be the best for the most people and its not only short sighted people who see offshore drilling as a solution but it is also a selfish person who believes such.....

there will have to be total readjustments of lifestyles.... no matter what...... get used to the idea start putting it into action while you still have a relative amount of resources to do it.....
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 16
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:04:59 PM
To quote, type [ quote ]first, type in or copy and paste, then type [ /quote ] at the end (no spaces).


I disagree. Trading in Euros was the catalyst for the war with Iraq. We were going to be outsiders.

Respectfully, I'd prefer trading in Euros to Yen or Yuan.


We were fed Hussein was the bad guy

He was a very bad guy, a murderous, ruthless thug, and needed to be taken down; the problem was, and is, the region needs a "strongman" to maintain order, as we've discovered.

The war planners naively assumed the Iraquis would warmly receive us as liberators and embrace all the goodness of a US-style democratic society.

We now have US forces occupying a country embroiled in a civil war, attracting terrorist nutcases and extremist religious wannabes from all over the region.

Not good.

And, oh yeah, some of the less-than-friendly regimes in the area are hoping the situation blows up in our faces.

Democracy won't work in a region that has no history of participatory government, and no grassroots movement for political change.
Unfortunately, there are dozens of self-appointed messiahs willing to convert the masses to their will and their beliefs, at the point of a gun if necessary. Whatever puppet government we install is going to need to be propped up for a long time to come.

Unfortunately, bailing out now would be the worst possible thing to do. I'd have to vote to leave this up to the Generals to run the war and get the politicians (all of them) out of it.

Back on topic- find and download the 332 page book (it's a free .pdf file) titled "Winning the Oil Endgame."
 loveoregon
Joined: 10/3/2004
Msg: 20
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 7:44:41 PM
I say that we do it all. Offshore drilling and R & D geared towards alternative fuel sources. I like the oilman from Texas, T. Boone Pickens ideas about wind energy. He has vision and some clout, which is a good thing.

For those extreme enviros who fear losing natural habitat in ANWR---

If oil is discovered, less than 2000 acres of the over 1.5 million acres of the Coastal Plain would be affected.
-Washington Post Dec. 20, 2005

If you do the math, this area would be the size of a postage stamp on a football field.

I am a moderate enviromentalist and into "efficiently managing our resources" while preserving the planet, rather than be "stupid" about them.
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 21
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:21:21 PM
Drill, and alternative energy are needed for secutiry of more stable supply of energy. Also, the goal is to graudally reduce energy costs to 2005 over a 30 year span. Rational people know that oil usuage gonna decline by 20% in the next 30 years, and more likely exploration of oil will get higher in price overtime, and cost gap for celloustic ethanol and natural gas will narrow. The goverment should cut taxes on people that give up cars as transport, and stop tax breaks for SUV hybirds. Also, reduce speed limits by 10mph on roads to allow usasge electric cars, and mopeds, scooters on roads. Higher tax on fuel inefficent engines, and tax incentives for auto makers to end production of SUVs period.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 22
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 11/6/2008 1:47:09 PM
I had started a new thread this morning to address alternative energy and the politics of what I can only describe as hypocrisy, but I guess it got deleted because this 6 month old thread is still "active".

On August 1st, Pelosi pulled the plug on discussion of off shore drilling, and the liberal mantra was alternative energy, not more drilling...
In 2006, Senator Ted Kennedy took the NIMBY position and blocked construction of a wind farm off the coast of Cape Cod. Tuesday the good citizens of California blocked a measure requiring Government owned entities to achieve a 20% benchmark for renewable fuel (non-fossil) power plants by 2010, a goal which they already impose on private energy companies. The two most liberal states in the country actually voted in preference of non renewable "dirty" fuel as opposed to renewable "clean" ones? What happened to the issue of Global Warming? Are they only valid environmental concerns when the answer materializes in someone else’s back yard?
 Lone_Stranger
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 25
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 11/9/2008 11:58:46 AM
Many of us heard self proclaimed Alaskan energy expert Sarah Palin say "drill, baby drill" over and over during the U.S. election campaign.
However....... the United States only has about 2% - 3% of the worlds oil reserves but consumes 25% of the world's oil and as others have already said here ......Canada is the largest exporter of oil and natural gas to the United States.
And I think everybody now agrees that the U.S. ( and the west in general ) should stop buying oil from countries that oppose democracy and directly or indirectly support terrorism in any way.
The problem is most of the world's oil reserves lie in country's that don't like the west.
And Canada cannot possibly produce enough oil to make up the difference.....not even close.
We also must reduce emissions from internal combustion engines which are the major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions and other forms of pollution.

I have been and still am a big supporter of hydrogen fuel cells but making them practical for a moving vehicle operating in all climates is proving to be very difficult.
They are still at least decades away from possibly replacing the internal combustion engine.

By the way.......diesel, gasoline, propane, fuel oil and natural gas are all fuels used in internal combustion engines that power everything from chainsaws and cars to supertankers, giant cruise ships and power generating stations.

I think the answer for the next few decades will have to be hybrid and electric combined with very efficient internal combustion engines to dramatically reduce fuel consumption and emissions for vehicles.

But I think the holy grail will be perfecting the hydrogen fuel cell......and ultimately.......fusion power

 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 26
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 11/9/2008 12:25:24 PM

By the way.......diesel, gasoline, propane, fuel oil and natural gas are all fuels used in internal combustion engines that power everything from chainsaws and cars to supertankers, giant cruise ships and power generating stations.

I think the answer for the next few decades will have to be hybrid and electric combined with very efficient internal combustion engines to dramatically reduce fuel consumption and emissions for vehicles.

But the holy grail will be perfecting the hydrogen fuel cell......and ultimately.......fusion power


Great post. I absolutely agree about the hydrogen fuel cell.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 27
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 11/9/2008 12:42:27 PM
Wow...so many alternatives...

Thanks for the info, guys!
I love the algae solution:


Eric Jarvis, a senior scientist at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colo., said algae can be grown in the ocean or a desert pond, grow and feed on wastewater or literally eat air pollutants produced by a power plant.

Within three years, the Air Force wants algae systems capable of making 50 million gallons of fuel per year, Sayre said. He expects algae-based fuel to start becoming available to the public in three to five years.
 ManFromMesa
Joined: 4/14/2009
Msg: 28
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 4/25/2009 11:47:37 AM
I want to step away from oil drilling and move into alternative energy,there are a dozen atleast that are so clean,and do not harm the earth.

I am very against drilling in an ocean,and do not want to see yet another disastrous oil spill,alt energy will not do a Valdez disaster.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 29
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 4/25/2009 1:32:31 PM

I am very against drilling in an ocean,and do not want to see yet another disastrous oil spill,alt energy will not do a Valdez disaster.


http://www.nwanews.com/adg/Business/255191/

You must have an in with the oil companies they are shutting down rigs and laying off workers at a record pace, why? So that they can jack up the price per gallon.

Since we are in an economic recession maybe it's time that the government installs some price controls on life essential products like oil, fuel, food ect

Chaves the terrible from Brazil subsidizes heating oil for our poor while the oil companies shut down rigs and lays off workers driving up prices and adding to the unemployment numbers

I wonder what drill baby drill McCain has to say about the oil companies shutting down drilling
 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 30
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 4/25/2009 3:15:11 PM
Let us focus on the economy first. But, I am in the middle. I do not have a problem with drilling in moderation, but we need to make sure we use alternative fuels as well.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 31
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 4/25/2009 3:44:59 PM

I do not have a problem with drilling in moderation ...
Who cares about drilling at all?

Any new drilling they do now won't bring us anything for the next 10 years. I thought everyone knew that.

Won't we have alternative fuels by then?
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 32
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 4/25/2009 4:12:52 PM

Let us focus on the economy first.


I agree.


Any new drilling they do now won't bring us anything for the next 10 years. I thought everyone knew that.


I'd like to know why this is the case. Check out this NY Times article from 2008...

http://tinyurl.com/cj23qd

...about a Brazilian company (George Bush asks,"whoa, how many is a Brazilian?!")


Petrobras, Brazil’s national oil company, shocked the oil world in November when it announced that its Tupi deepwater field offshore of Rio de Janeiro could hold five billion to eight billion barrels of oil. Analysts think there could be billions of barrels more in surrounding areas.

While the oil will be expensive and complicated to extract, Petrobras has said it expects to be producing up to 100,000 barrels a day from Tupi by 2010, and hopes to produce up to a million barrels a day in about a decade.


So in Brazil it looks like it only takes 2 years to get 100,000 barrels a day from a brand-spankin' new offshore platform, but it looks like full capacity production will take 10 years. Maybe this is why CNN started parroting the 10-year line? Maybe it takes 10 years for full capacity production, but as the Brazilians are claiming, only 2 years to get the ball rolling?

I honestly don't know, but if Brazil can start pumping in 2 years surely we can too? That's not to say that we don't need to start investing in and researching alternative fuels as the oil can't last forever, but I think we could certainly get a lot more oil to the marketplace than we are right now, and it looks like in a reasonable amount of time. Too bad nobody's going to make the oil companies do it, anyway. They're already shutting down some of their existing platforms. Hell, they may be the ones putting the "nothing for 10 years" thing out there.
 ManFromMesa
Joined: 4/14/2009
Msg: 33
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 4/25/2009 4:32:22 PM
I agree and thats why I said what I said,the experts said in new drilling would be 10 years out so I don't see the point.

I say tough it up and continue to deal with whop we buy our oil from now,and try as hard as when we tried to put a man on the moon and get going on alternative energy.

We are almost there now with this energy but we need the investment dollar there now to accelerate the process,everything is there for electric vehicles,the major advance has been with the batteries,they already have doubled the speed of charging and doubled the output of energy using the same size,and doubled the longevity of the charge,and the newest battery far exceeds that,as you see from the examples the battery is where improvement is needed,and production volume will drop the price as soon as it becomes a staple rather than a novelty.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
http://www.teslamotors.com/
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/

Wind energy,has been the airplane blade horizontal windmill where now its a vertical windmill,allowing effective charging at as slow as 2 mph winds when horizontal windmills took like 16 mph,then had to shut off in real high winds as to not damage unit,where as the vertical ones handle up to 90 to 120 MPH . look make your own for a fraction follow these popular Science generator plans for the magnetic generator a non ball bearing unit,the same magnetic principles as the 200 mph trains,zero friction. http://www.enviro-energies.com/index.htm
http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2007-07/going-wind
and the generator /turbine plans for a 500watt unit http://www.windstuffnow.com/turbine%20kit.pdf
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 34
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 4/26/2009 2:15:18 AM
Caracas Brazil?

I can't find that on Goggle Earth...


I am sorry I meant Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías the President of Venezuela.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 35
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Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 4/26/2009 6:01:52 AM

I say tough it up and continue to deal with whop we buy our oil from now,and try as hard as when we tried to put a man on the moon and get going on alternative energy.
We probably need to do whatever it takes to get going on the alternative energy ... that way we won't have to invade any more sovereign nations in the Middle East to try to steal their oil and natural resources ...
 Rigger4life
Joined: 6/9/2009
Msg: 36
Offshore drilling vs. Alternative energy time to voice your opinion!
Posted: 9/6/2009 8:37:56 PM
Sorry to bring back a old thread but. U. S does drill on there own turf.. Lots of rigs down south. Crap even us canadians are working on u.s patch.. I know a lot of roughnecks who are working down south. Theres not many u.s companys working overseas, ensign nabors and pd drilling work all over but a lot of the rigs overseas are owned by iran and china. Just with canadian hands and stuff..
Just wanted to note from experience haha..
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