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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > The Hillraisers just won't fold      Home login  
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 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 2
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The Hillraisers just won't foldPage 1 of 26    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26)
There is one other idea that has crossed my mind ... they are former Republicans who for whatever reason wanted Hillary and since they cannot have her now ... they are migrating back to the Republican Party?

I heard some rumors that some of the registered Republicans changed their registrations to be able to vote Democratic ... to throw the vote to the candidate they felt McCain could easiest defeat. It sounds rather far-fetched if you ask me but when people can't get what they want ... they come up with some wild stuff.

Whatever their background or goal ... I seriously doubt that the ones who really do go to McCain will make much difference in the end result of the election.
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 4
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:07:32 PM

Polls confirm the impression left by anecdotal evidence. Roughly 30 percent of Clinton supporters say they'll vote for John McCain over Obama. Initial exit polls for yesterday's Puerto Rico primary asked Clinton voters if they'd be satisfied if Obama clinches the nomination. Seventy-two percent said no; only 26 percent said yes.

Clinton supporters have found solace online. Facebook, the social networking site, has spawned groups such as "Is Obama qualified? No, but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night" where Hillary supporters can vent. Other popular pages include, "Hillary, don't let them tell you to quit" and "Women and Men Leaving the DNC if HRC isn't the nominee."

Let's just say Obama has his work cut out for him.


Their are far more disenfranchised Democrats then what this party will admit too! Their are those who never have thought Obama has what it takes, and consider him a phony, they will vote Republican, and then we have he Hillary supporters that felt the Obama camp treated her her very disrespectfully, Obama claims to be the great uniter yet can't even get the Democratic party completely behind him! Many Hillary supporters will vote in November for John McCain not because they are McCain supproters but rather they have zero confidence in Obama. McCain's support numbers do not reflect the Conservative base as yet..There is no need for Republicans to weigh into this at this point, McCain is already the nominee, come November the voting will take place and that's where the people will speak, Obama will lose! The democrat and republican base are faily evenly divided, The biggest swing votes will be the Democrats who believe Obama will ruin this country and simply do not trust him! Say what you will but this election has far more disenfrnchised Democrats then what we've seen in years gone by, the Congress has also added to those who feel the Democrats have become inept, and self serving!
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 6
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:15:48 PM

Otherwise, for many, I'd say a combination of racism and sour grapes is probably the answer.


This is so old and tiring....because people can't stand what Obama's about, automatically means their a Republican or Racist! Then with this mind set anyone who doesn't vote for McCain is a Democrat or Racist!

If anything holds true in your arguement then blacks would be Racist since they overwhelmingly are voting for Obama...not the White guy Please stop playing the race card all the time it becomes meaningless when it has no merit!
 GOD.IS.A.BULLET
Joined: 6/4/2008
Msg: 7
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:29:37 PM
If you watch this video you will see that the women voters still have someone to vote for.
http://www.news3online.com/index.php?code=337L634y0R7INc22qioJ
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 8
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:47:29 PM

People claim they don't see race in this election

Who claims that? Besides Stephen Colbert, that is? I see race in this election-- it's the first time a man of Obama's racial mix has gotten this far in the US political system.
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 10
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:56:46 PM

I hear what your saying. People claim they don't see race in this election, but if someone doesn't want to vote for Obama, it must be because they are racist.Therefor, they must see race in this election.Personally, I think Obama and Clinton made complete fools of themselves during the primaries.I don't see Obama acting foolish now, and I have not yet seen McCain acting foolish.


It seems to me the only one's who keep bringing up Racism are those from the left, everytime they hear someone say why they are not supporting Obama they somehow want to equate it to Racism...which is absolutely absurd! it's the old Jackson/Sharpton
rhetoric about trying to keep Racism alive in this country! It's not nearly the issue it's being portrayed as! It's being used as a scape goat to deter from the fact that many people just seem him as to extreem far left Liberal that's out of touch with reality both at home and abroad! As mentioned in many other post when asked of his supporters what has he done? they have to fine some link to try and give him credit for something, when asked on the street of his supporters the look like a deer caught in the head lights...all they seem to say is he's not Bush? Bush isn't running! He is all about change? what change is he all about? uuuuuhhhhhhhh
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 11
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:05:11 PM

It seems to me the only one's who keep bringing up Racism are those from the left

While that's highly debatable, at least the left is willing to admit that racism still exists and will always be a problem. As Nomadic said, the issue was asked in the OP.

And it's OK to punctuate sentences with a period on occasion. How about trying it out?
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 12
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:07:59 PM

Nevertheless, I'm not afraid to say that I'm sure--and there has been ample evidence for this on these forums alone--SOME people who dislike Obama have a POV very much affected by attitudes towards race. Does that mean that EVERYONE who doesn't support him is a racist? No. Does it mean that MOST who don't support him are racists? I doubt it. Are some? Clearly. Your weak attempt to shame anyone who dares to mention that reality is much more a bid to play the "race card" than my comments.


I have never read on these message boards (admittedly) I haven't read all threads or responses, But I have yet to read any one say they wouldn't vote for Obama because of the color of his skin? or atleast the color he and his supporters claim! He is a mixed black/white man yet he's always referred to as a black man or African American why is that? it's rhetorical... What I have read here from many on the left is that if you are not for Obama then you more then likely are Racist...and that's just wrong and incorrect!

Most people who are anti Obama are anti Obama because they believe him to be incompetent to run this country! and highy question his back ground of friends, and his ability to lead and unite this nation for the common good of all!
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 13
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:17:54 PM

But I have yet to read any one say they wouldn't vote for Obama because of the color of his skin?

Come, now. Surely you know that much, if not most, racism is not overt? Few people acknowledge that they are racist, but that doesn't mean there are few racists.

What I have read here from many on the left is that if you are not for Obama then you more then likely are Racist...

I think you are off base here. The above is not an opinion; it is an assertion, and an incorrect one.

Most people who are anti Obama are anti Obama because they believe him to be incompetent to run this country!

Very true-- but you do know that there are people in this country who think a black man (or half black man-- it's "black enough") is, by definition, incompetent to run this country? Perhaps you don't know that...
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 14
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:19:29 PM

And it's OK to punctuate sentences with a period on occasion. How about trying it out?


It never fails....that train is always on time, anytime an arguement is failing, the spelling bee begins and the critizing of one's punctuations, Ironically the one's who do this, tend to be equally if not more of the offenders of grammatical errors! but I digress
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 15
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:24:38 PM

Very true-- but you do know that there are people in this country who think a black man (or half black man-- it's "black enough") is, by definition, incompetent to run this country? Perhaps you don't know that...


What I do belive is this...most Americans have moved past racial hate, although it may exsit is certain circles, but the vast Majority of people get it..That the color of one's skin doesn't make them anymore or less then someone who doesn't share their color!
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 16
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:32:01 PM

Poci, come on. They are not going to come out and admit that. They'd run the risk of being deemed unfit to date and have to find somewhere else to hang out. People don't wear their white pointy hats out in the broad light of day.


Simm......I'm shocked...why is it that Racism is only pointed at whites? your not suggesting, that the only one's who wear that racist hat are whites are you? Especially when considering that 76% of blacks polled have said they will vote Obama, would being black have something to do with that? Since 76% of whites have not said they will vote for McCain? More whites are willing to vote for Obama, then Blacks are willing to vote for McCain based on the polling percentage!
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 17
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:34:52 PM

At least that theory works using some of the logic we see here..

You and Poco are debating against an argument of your own making-- aka a strawman argument. No one here is claiming that a vote against Obama is a vote for racism. Please, directly address arguments that are actually being made here-- and address it cogently, preferably.
 Kignmaker
Joined: 1/2/2008
Msg: 18
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:48:12 PM
a bit nomadic
I agree, Clinton wants the White House. She will do anything to get it. As long as Obama is not president, she only has 4 years to wait not 8 years.

As for Republicans voting for Clinton during the primaries. McCain had the nomination wrapped up. So they could have been voting for her just so Obama could not start his main campian against McCain. Until the last primary.
 Kignmaker
Joined: 1/2/2008
Msg: 19
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:08:14 PM

While that's highly debatable, at least the left is willing to admit that racism still exists and will always be a problem.


Yes that is true. But is the left willing to admit that there are some minorities even people on the left that are racist? There are people on both sides that are racist.

To me the left do not think that a minority could be racist.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 20
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:26:54 PM
Well, I cannot speak for the entirety of "the left," but I would like to think so-- all the "lefties" I've seen on here would say that anyone can be racist or bigoted. I've seen black bigots on these very forums. They didn't hang around long. This reminds me of the opening scene of the movie MASH-- Hawkeye gets unjustly chastised by an irritable black sergeant, and afterwards, Hawkeye says under his breath "Racist." It is really funny.

Bigotry/racism comes in varying degrees-- it's not all or nothing. It can be very insidious; we must all continually check our notions and attitudes to guard against it.

To me the left do not think that a minority could be racist.

What brought you to this conclusion?
 Metreau
Joined: 7/30/2004
Msg: 23
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 3:10:22 AM
I think many of the Hillary supporters have the "woman scorned" attitude now and if they didn't get what they wanted now their way of payback is voting for McCain. Yes its childish behavior, since Obama and Hillary are very close on most views and very different from McCain. I would say alot are racist feminists and that thought in itself is scary.

Keep in mind that there were even black women supporting Hillary, though few in number. Though race could've been a major factor, GENDER damn sure had the knife in the block.


Poci, come on. They are not going to come out and admit that. They'd run the risk of being deemed unfit to date and have to find somewhere else to hang out. People don't wear their white pointy hats out in the broad light of day.

Just like how/why we all keep some of our deep, dark, crazy secrets to ourselves....let's face it folks...humans just naturally fear rejection.


Poco, you definitely don't live down south because I can tell you that there is plenty of racism here. I used to live in PA "up north" and never seen the amount of racism I see here in TN and other neighboring southern states. They will vote for McCain just to keep a white man in office. Yes, I have had people down here openly admit this in talking politics with them

This is definately true in the southern-most parts of Virginia....unless that person either has kids by or is married to a black man.


As I've said before (in a previous forum which may no longer exist), those Hillraising supporters "gone bi" for Bush's Borg successor (McCain) will regret having said those words when they've realized that the Borg will keep their sons/daughters in Iraq untill I'm about 121 years old.
 Metreau
Joined: 7/30/2004
Msg: 24
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 3:25:09 AM
A few of you posters mentioned racism , which was an unfair card the Obamas played against the Clintons.



As I recall very clearly, Hillary cried sexism (OOO....do I see the Gender card here?!!?)when the primaries were over and done with. Didn't she have ample time to address the gender much as how Obama took time out to address race??? Keep in mind, she did do an interview for Fux News Channel, and even got some preferential treatment on a few of the debates ESPECIALLY when WereWolf Blitzer moderated on CNN.

Honestly, I'm sick n' tired of hearing you kids arguing about these damn CARDS!!! ENOUGH children, put them cards back in the deck, ya'll don't need to play with THESE anymore!!!
(Snatches away the cards and puts them in my pocket....)
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 25
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History
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 4:17:52 AM

Their are far more disenfranchised Democrats then what this party will admit too! Their are those who never have thought Obama has what it takes, and consider him a phony, they will vote Republican, and then we have he Hillary supporters that felt the Obama camp treated her her very disrespectfully, Obama claims to be the great


So what kind of crystal ball are you consulting here? Maybe some windex could clear things up for you or have you been using it to bowl democrats down again and it's all scratchy.

I recall rush ranting for days at a time for republicans and neocons to go vote in democratic races just to upset the balance. So now the faux democrats are just ruffling their feathers and are internally just as afraid as them right wing republicans of the thought of Obama winning.
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 26
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 4:25:00 AM

Well Mr P. Loco you don't have to hide your pointy hat anymore..... I got mine out....
Mine leans to the Left....

It is obvious if a person is not an Obama supporter they are a Pointy head supporter......

Not a racist.....


The Hill supporters feel better with McCain he has a record. A known....


Mr.Rip,
I'm more of a gangster brim sort of guy...that leans right! The HillRaisers are accussed of being sexist, yet they in groves are turning on Obama and supporting McCain...hardly sexist, both McCain and Hillary are far more seasoned for the job Obami supporters just don't get it? People want someone who understands what being President means, not just someone who gives good speechs, Obami just isn't presidential, he reminds me of Wright (of course he was mentored by Wright for 20 plus years) so I understand...he can capture your attention and hold it for a bit, until you actually think about the message! Then it's clear, you want nothing to do with it!
 PocoLoco44
Joined: 9/21/2007
Msg: 27
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 4:39:50 AM

Poco, you definitely don't live down south because I can tell you that there is plenty of racism here. I used to live in PA "up north" and never seen the amount of racism I see here in TN and other neighboring southern states. They will vote for McCain just to keep a white man in office. Yes, I have had people down here openly admit this in talking politics with them


Your right...I don't live there now but I lived in Arkansas for nearly 10 years Pine Bluff Arkansas to be exact, and had in-laws in 7 counties down there...So I do understand, as I said in certain circles Racism exsit, but it's not the Majority, I ran into KKK supporters down there and was taken back by the hatred, but then again I ran into Racism on the other side of the tracks as a Pepsi route driver asigned to the side of town most white folks didn't go to..it's on both sides! But the majority of America is not ruled by racism, especially those who actually vote! Obama supporters have proven that theory! As discussed their will always be those who vote color not content.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 28
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 8:22:32 AM

The following Youtube video clip is interesting in this regard, as is the article below which shows that Obama just isn't getting through to several in his own party. Could it be his supposed "uber intellectualism" is putting them off, or are his "elitist tendencies" the problem?


For me it isn't either of those things -- it's a combination of no experience and very, very poor choices in life -- much worse than Bill Clinton's fooling around.

I think that Obama is a bright guy, but there is nothing that shows me he's capable of being President, and he's counted too many known criminals and blatant racists as close personal friends for my comfort level.


Is it race, sour grapes, or are these "Hillraisers" simply a different breed of Democrat? Why do they seem to actually prefer John McCain? What's your take on it? And when all is said and done, are these peeps going to finally come around? If not, what will their impact be upon the 2008 election?


I was a Hillraiser, BTW. I prefer John McCain because he at least has experience, and I'm also a more conservative Democrat anyway. My stance on issues has always been moderate, and to the right of both Hillary and Obama to the left of McCain. So either way I'm in the middle.

It's always hard to say what the impact will be before the conventions. Hillary had a much better chance against McCain, and he's probably relieved that he's facing Obama.

As the fall hits and the 527s come after Obama, his numbers will fall. That combined with Hillraisers and other strong Hillary supporters either voting for McCain or staying home, makes it less likely Obama will prevail. I believe this will be a very close race.


What kind of support did she really have from them anyway, considering that they left her with a $20 Million debt that the Obama campaign is trying to help her repay.


Hillary had a LOT of support. She raised more money than has ever been raised for a political campaign -- except for Obama. Hillary is only trying to recoup the $10 million in debts, she has gifted her own $12 million to the campaign. (And off-topic Romney has also stated he won't try and recoup the $45 million in personal funds he used for his campaign).


If they were Democrats before, it just seems impossible to me that a Republican could court them for their vote.


There are a lot of more conservative Democrats like me, and for us no "swinging" is involved since we were in the middle between the Democratic and Republican platforms to start with.


I think many of the Hillary supporters have the "woman scorned" attitude now and if they didn't get what they wanted now their way of payback is voting for McCain. Yes its childish behavior, since Obama and Hillary are very close on most views and very different from McCain. I would say alot are racist feminists and that thought in itself is scary.


That's completely ridiculous. Hillraisers were for the most part very educated and well heeled women. Some actually funneled the money to other people to donate to Hillary (I did some of that). We aren't voting for Obama simply because we don't think he's qualified for the job. Not all are voting for McCain, BTW. At least half will just stay home.

I don't see how opposing Obama is racist. In my opinion, it's racist to vote for an unqualified candidate because he IS black (or actually multiracial). I don't involve race or gender in my decisions.

Further, calling people childish, racist or selfish because they don't agree with your point of view IS childish. I've never tried to get an Obama supporter to change their stance, but it seems that Obama supporters denigrate those who don't agree with them. It's a very unappealing trait.


Their are far more disenfranchised Democrats then what this party will admit too! Their are those who never have thought Obama has what it takes, and consider him a phony, they will vote Republican, and then we have he Hillary supporters that felt the Obama camp treated her her very disrespectfully


I agree that there are a lot of disenfranchised Democrats who don't think that Obama has what it takes. Personally my reasons for voting for McCain have nothing to do with how the Obama camp treated Hillary. There was some wrongdoing from BOTH camp as to how they treated the other.


If McCain wins in November, Clinton can run again in four years. If Obama wins she can't.


Not necessarily. Should Obama win, he would likely have a rating that is well below Bushs' by the time he leaves office. He would be a BAD President -- something we don't need right now. The Democrats could be in the position for the first time of having to support a new candidate rather than the incumbent -- learning their lesson from Jimmy Carter.

However, hopefully this sorry state of events will be forestalled by McCain winning.


People don't wear their white pointy hats out in the broad light of day.


Oh please. I'm sure there are some racists who won't vote for Obama because of his skin color, but that doesn't enter into it for the majority of people. It is possible to just think he'd be a bad President -- I sure do.


Poco, you definitely don't live down south because I can tell you that there is plenty of racism here. I used to live in PA "up north" and never seen the amount of racism I see here in TN and other neighboring southern states. They will vote for McCain just to keep a white man in office. Yes, I have had people down here openly admit this in talking politics with them.


Well, see. That's your problem. Come be my next-door-neightbor in Sausilito (for the rest of the summer), NYC or DC. Not a lot of racists here!


You and Poco are debating against an argument of your own making-- aka a strawman argument. No one here is claiming that a vote against Obama is a vote for racism.


No, what some in the thread are saying is that people who don't vote for Obama (and especially Hillary supporter who don't vote for Obama) are staying home or voting for McCain because they are racists.

That's quite different than it being a "vote for racism".

But either way, it's extremely insulting.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 29
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 9:39:29 AM
Well, see. That's your problem.

That's a rather flip attitude to take about a serious subject.

No, what some in the thread are saying is that people who don't vote for Obama (and especially Hillary supporter who don't vote for Obama) are staying home or voting for McCain because they are racists.

You should reread the thread and parse certain posts more carefully. What was said was "a lot" or "many," not "any," "all," or "most."

That's quite different than it being a "vote for racism".

Semantics. You knew exactly what my point was.

But either way, it's extremely insulting.

In politics, insults fly from both sides of the fence, as I'm sure you know. In this case, though, it is your own strawman that you find insulting.

Now, marieleah has made some excellent anti-Obama points in her posts, but, in the big picture, they still boil down to sour grapes of a personal nature. We are talking about being the POTUS here, not the high school president. See, I personally don't care for Hillary Clinton. Never have. I'm sure I could come up with countless reasons why-- but they would all be relatively petty in terms of national leadership. If she won the nomination, I would still be more inclined to vote for her than McCain. You see, I don't believe in rewarding poor leadership by reelecting its representative party into power. And that is not being petty.

Edit:

Solomon once wrote, "A grey head is a crown of wisdom".

In Solomon's time, Obama would have been seen as old. Another sage once said, "An unintelligent young person grows up to be an unintelligent old person."
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 30
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 10:03:05 AM
You should reread the thread and parse certain posts more carefully. What was said was "a lot" or "many," not "any," "all," or "most."


And you should quit being insulting. Doesn't matter if it's "a lot", or "many" versus "all" or "most" it's still not true.


Semantics. You knew exactly what my point was.


Actually, no. But either way, the vast majority of people are making up their minds based on qualifications and peronal politics. Sure, there are a few racists here and there, but I don't see that as a significant contribution to the outcome.


In this case, though, it is your own strawman that you find insulting.


My "strawman"? And who would that be. I don't think either candidate has misrepresented themselves, and I know exactly who I'm voting for and why.


We are talking about being the POTUS here, not the high school president. See, I personally don't care for Hillary Clinton. Never have. I'm sure I could come up with countless reasons why-- but they would all be relatively petty in terms of national leadership. If she won the nomination, I would still be more inclined to vote for her than McCain. You see, I don't believe in rewarding poor leadership by reelecting its representative party into power. And that is not being petty.


That's if you care about "party politics". I don't. On the issues it was a toss-up to me between McCain and Hillary. I agree with each around 50 percent of the time -- obviously not on the same issues. As a candidate I liked Hillary better, so if she had won the nomination I would have voted for her. However, given the same toss-up on the issues (to me) I think McCain is the better candidate, so now I'm voting for him.

No sour grapes involved.

If the other candidate was Adolph Hitler or David Dukes, I'd be voting for Obama. Otherwise, chances are I'd be voting Republican this time around. I've done it before, and I'll likely do it again. I see Obama as a totally unqalified candidate of questionable ethics, and unless the other candidate was even more morally bankrupt than Obama I would be voting for them.

And you see I did all of this without attacking your stance (except for your proclivity to call people's personal decision making capacities, maturity or ethics into question because they don't agree with you).

That's how it's done.
 Green Sangha
Joined: 3/12/2008
Msg: 31
view profile
History
The Hillraisers just won't fold
Posted: 7/18/2008 10:04:32 AM
I am going to put forward my sense of one group in the Hillraisers community - the largest segment - which is disenfranchised women. For some of us the sexism in the media coverage of the campaign, the DNC, as well as Obama's not-so-subtle sexism has left its mark and we are making a statement that we won't fall in line when misogyny was so prevalent and unchallenged. I am using misogyny exactly as what it is "woman hating" the form of prejudice that is still allowed and even encouraged.

I didn't leave my party - my party left me. It left me everytime Howard Dean and Donna Brazille spoke up in an effort to shut down Hillary's campaign prematurely. It left me with every you-tube video that villanized Hillary and ridiculed everything about her from her marriage to her pants suits. It left me with every hateful comment made by the Keith Olbermann and other mainstream media that did not provoke an outcry from the DNC. It left me when they didn't move quickly and decisively to resolve the voting in Michigan and Florida; and it left me when it resolved to give Obama delegates when he wasn't even on the ballot.

The Hillraisers are angry and we aren't going to support a party that would let misogyny be determining factor in the primary. Whatever people thought of Hillary's politics, make no mistake about it, she was hated for being a strong, competent, assertive woman. That is the main motivation behind the assaults on her and I cannot support a political system that would let this sham primary stand.

I happen to not think Obama is qualified and I can't vote for him. That doesn't mean I will vote for McCain, but that I will either vote for a third party candidate or write in Hillary, or sit it out. I will work for the issues I care about, but I will not give my money or my time to Obama, not one dime. As a matter of fact, I will still give to Hillary to help her pay off her debt. She is the candidate that the popular vote went for and if the Democrats hadn't decided to overhaul how they handled primaries after McGovern, we wouldn't be in this mess. My party - not any more and not for the foreseeable future.
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