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 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 6
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Approaching women, why not?Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

If you see a woman you are attracted to, in any social environment, what are some of the reasons that prevent you from approaching her to get to know her?


I think I wrote this out somewhere else or something close to it but covering a variety of settings. Various signs she doesn't want to be approached by me will do it. The rules vary depending on the man who is the would be approacher with every woman who's ever told me about the guys that have approached her.

1) She's with a guy. Obvious.
2) She's with a friend or friends. It's bad to break into the group.
3) She's not giving any signs that she would like me to approach. Some women do not like being approached at all.
4) The signs are confusing and could be 'just friendly' . Take it the wrong way and you end up with the woman who doesn't like being approached and gets mad at you for being 'dumb'.
5) she seems to be enjoying the music or whatever and probably doesn't want to be bothered. See 3)
6) she seemingly doesn't want to be bothered by the way she turns away other guys.

Somewhere along the way the rules changed and a man had to be a mind reader. When the mind reading abilities aren't working I just have guess on the clues AND overcome my shyness. Then things move into risk-benefit analysis. Which means a very attractive woman who is alone that does some sort of overt sign is on the high probability side of being approached and a minimally attractive woman who gives no sign is with 3 friends (two girls and a guy) while rejecting other guys is going to be on the low probability side.
 celts123
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 11
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:01:28 PM
Here are some general reasons why men wouldn't approach a woman

1. Shyness
2. Fear of Rejection
3. Lack of Confidence
4. She is with another man
5. Doesn't appear to be interested in meeting any men ( such as dancing in a circle with a large group of friends )
 m409998m1
Joined: 2/18/2007
Msg: 12
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:29:53 PM
It's the image one projects that attracts, or repells. If you, or women in general are in a group, you are sometimes hard to approach. It takes a few minutes to sometimes see if she is wearing a ring also. No reason to approach if she's married.

You know as well as we do, that it's all about attitude.
 WpgGentleman2
Joined: 6/19/2008
Msg: 13
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:37:04 PM
There are different reasons for different men. And it varies by age. Probably varies depending on what region of the world you are in too.

I'd say in general, for most men, the main sticking points are: lack of attraction, fear of rejection if they are attractive, years of being discouraged and put down by women, and intimidation if they are lawyers or have very successful careers.

The terrible way men are portrayed in the media and in society, plus just so many years of attempting relationships, contributes to poor self-image, depression, and alienation from society doesn't help.

At my age (53), with women 48 to 56, lack of physical attraction is #1. Women in my age group are often very interesting to talk to and make excellent conversation and activity companions. But I'm only sexually interested when there is a sufficiently sexually attractive woman around to make me interested, and then I'm only sexually interested in her. Unfortunately I only find maybe 10% of women in my age group attractive that way.
 Street King
Joined: 5/25/2008
Msg: 20
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 5:15:34 AM
For me it's just timing. Alot of times I see a gorgeous woman but don't have the time to invest in a real relationship so I don't approach otherwise I would approach nearly every woman I saw. Your friends might be just as afraid as you are. It takes boldness to approach someone so they're probably searching for the right time and courage to ask you out.
 rentahusband
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 22
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Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 6:11:36 AM
This is my take on the subject and many good points have been brought up already so I hope I don't repeat.

My number one reason for not approaching women in ANY situation is that I have thrown in the towel. I give up. I learned my lesson and am so much happier for it.

How can I say this? Let me put it this way: one night I went out with some friends and stated: I'm not letting the rejections get to me tonight. So I went forth with the goal to meet someone new that night.

Well let me tell you at 2:30 am we were sitting in a coffeeshop and I added them up. TWENTY SEVEN times I was shot down over 4 or 5 bars, 2 restaurants and at a friend's place. The next day I vowed to never ask another woman out. That was....10 yrs ago? 8? something like that.

The real clincher for me was when we ran into one of the ladies I approached that night a few weeks later. I forget how word got back to me but she basically said that "she did actually want to get to know me but was playing hard to get that night with me..." Hard to get? LOL she played hard to get so well she never got got!!! DOH That was an epiphane for me. That right there proved to me that my decision was the right one.

I just want to add that the above ONLY applies to Toronto and NYC. Anywhere else I will still approach women because at least in many other cities (namely Montreal, Calgary etc) women don't play games and are more open and friendly and don't have this unreasonable mental image of Mr Perfect and shoot down automatically anyone who isn't he.......
 Sardonis
Joined: 9/28/2007
Msg: 24
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 7:38:33 AM
but I'm wary about encouraging anything more when I'm feeling so unsure. On the other hand, I wonder why they are not making an attempt to do so. At least I would know where I stand then.


When you play poker, do you think it is only fair that everybody show you their cards so you can decide what to do next?

 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 25
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 9:23:19 AM
Hey, men--it is unilkely any woman is going to be "out" all alone. The scenarios here are all sounding sort of night-clubby, and I do not really think there are that many women out there by themselves.

And I would say, quite frankly, that if she is alone, she WANTS to be alone, or to get laid. OUCH--hard to decide, huh? Did she look at you? Approach. Did she look at you then quickly roll her eyes and get back to reading her book? Do not approach.
 pokerjimmy
Joined: 11/10/2006
Msg: 26
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Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:21:34 AM
Look, you're saying you already HAVE a speaking relationship and they aren't moving on you? THEY AREN'T INTERESTED!

They may well like you and who you are, but dating you is a whole different level and they don't see you there.
 rentahusband
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 27
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Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:26:40 AM

**************Women seldom have to approach men*****************


You're right on the money there dude. In another thread on another site there was a posting about the 5 mistakes a guy makes on a first date and I said the very FIRST mistake we make is: we ask them out/approach them in the first place.

I went on to say until guys in North America realize that until we stop asking, we won't ever change things.

As for my night of rejections lol. A buddy of mine (who was a pretty smooth operator with the ladies) was there and I asked him if there was something wrong with my approach, did I have a big green booger hanging out of my nose etc and he said nope, don't know what it is, but man lol.....

Funny thing is I didn't let it affect me emotionally. In fact, what it proved to me was that I was not cut out for Toronto women but that isn't MY problem, it's their's. I do fine in other cities (which is why I quote Calgary, montreal, vancouver). In fact, I was approached by a woman in the Home Depot parking lot in Calgary while we were both on our way in. She asked about my rental car etc and where I lived etc and we ended up shopping together lol. I was only in town for a couple of hours so it didn't go very far but still....
 867love
Joined: 3/16/2006
Msg: 32
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 12:51:35 PM
most men are poor at approaching an interest. however most women are lousy at looking like she is interested. -is it too much to ask for just a smile, nod or even eye contact?
i remember plenty of times i hear a gal saying she thinks some guy is cute -in fact she's dying to meet him, however she thinks she is too shy to make her move, so she sits staring glumly at the floor with her arms folded, afraid to even peek his way, even worse -looking away every time any guy smiles or looks her way. (what kind of signal is that sending to him?) -being shy doesn't get you anywhere.
now put your ovaries in the driver seat and get things started -he knows where to pick up from there
 slybandit
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 33
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 1:02:00 PM
Hey, rentahusband, let me give you a suggestion.

Do it again.

You had the guts to handle 27 rejections in one night. And guess what? You got a hit: a woman wanted to date you but felt like she had to play some immature game. It took you EXACTLY one night to meet a woman that was interested in you. If you had followed up with her, who knows?

Hey, the possibility of finding the person you want to spend your life with is worth a few nights worth of all out effort, is it not? You probably have gone to work most days of the week for your entire adult life. What is wrong with a bit of work on that front?

Who cares about the rejection anyhow? Seriously, in all of these cases, this is someone you just saw and do not know from Anony-miss. Why invest their opinion with some mystical power to affect how you feel about yourself?

We guys give women in general WAAY to much respect when it comes to that sort of thing. THEY all KNOW that guys are WAY more likely to respond positively to THEIR approaches, and a good 90% of them do not have the guts to approach US. So what does THAT say?

And TheGoodMan:

"Well women are NOT going to want some butt-ugly guy like me approaching her in the first place therefore its a 100% guranteed rejection for me. And women hate being approached anyways."

I trust you are being sarcastic, man. Er, 6' tall employed single black male in good physical shape ? Man, from what I hear, there are forum threads out there about how you are an endangered species, there are so many women hunting your kind down. Stop running yourself down, man.
 Frisky Monkey
Joined: 6/30/2008
Msg: 36
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 2:02:56 PM

If you see a woman you are attracted to, in any social environment, what are some of the reasons that prevent you from approaching her to get to know her?

And the TOP 5 reasons are...
5. Her Husband/Boyfriend standing right next to her.
4. It's drag night at the local club and she's one of the performers *LOL*
3. Your Wife/Girlfriend is standing right next to you.
2. It's an office party and she's your boss' daughter (or worse...wife)
1. It's a family reunion and she's closely related to you.
 talldogdad
Joined: 6/29/2008
Msg: 37
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 2:03:55 PM
I'm with you Lightly. I don't accept the way things are and would rather be alone or travel to where there is a better market when the time comes.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 40
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 4:43:24 PM
Wow, the bitter have come to root.

If you don't want to play the mating game, don't do it. More power to you if you go to Asia or Russia and pick up a fine filly, I don't care. Want to join a monastery? Go for it, brother! Some of you seem to think that we American women ("feminists") are losing out on that deal. Let's just say I disagree.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 44
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Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 7:11:44 PM
re:Cassa-go (and some others)

Your posts demonstrate IMO the exact sort of 'be a mind reader' and 'dance for me monkey' sort of view way too many women have.

The last two posts show the usual of trying to 'shame' the man into playing a woman's game. A game where the woman has all the information and the rule book and there are no penalties for her. If he says anything about it, he's not man enough to read minds and put in a good enough performance. If a man rejects the game and decides not to play he is 'bitter' or worse. Many women may like social games. Many men do not.

Some men do master these social games. They are often called 'players' or worse. They are often the guys who seem great but turn out to be jerks. These games by design will favor liars, manipulators, etc because that's the easiest way to win the game. I dare say it is the game. To create an image, to manipulate feelings, etc and so on.

What's funny is that these sort of social games are rooted in the same past as all the things the feminists want to or have thrown out when they favored men. Too bad they weren't all replaced with something closer to equality.

Rejection isn't really that big of a deal, it's how the rejection is done. If you were cast the role of the dancing monkey you probably wouldn't like it too much either.
 talldogdad
Joined: 6/29/2008
Msg: 45
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 8:10:55 PM
If you don't want to play the mating game, don't do it. More power to you if you go to Asia or Russia and pick up a fine filly, I don't care. Want to join a monastery? Go for it, brother! Some of you seem to think that we American women ("feminists") are losing out on that deal. Let's just say I disagree.


whoops, see next post.
 talldogdad
Joined: 6/29/2008
Msg: 46
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 8:20:26 PM
If you don't want to play the mating game, don't do it. More power to you if you go to Asia or Russia and pick up a fine filly, I don't care. Want to join a monastery? Go for it, brother! Some of you seem to think that we American women ("feminists") are losing out on that deal. Let's just say I disagree.


It's more a matter of giving up on playing the game here in our culture. I realize there are a lot of exceptions, but here the game is so skewed in favor of women... why wouldn't a man who wanted a wonderful mate do a little research and go find what he really wants even if it's from another country/culture? Get a little gem who wants to make him happy instead of putting his nuts on a chopping block and have him dancing like a chimp for her pleasure. And we don't care if you care or not, because once a man travels and experiences how well he can be treated by beautiful women from another part of the world, you become irrelevant.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 47
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 8:55:10 PM
First off, play fair--NO WOMAN has called any man "dancing monkey". That's dude on dude action.

My problem with a lot of the negative posts from the men is the tone. And their INSISTENCE that WOMEN need to change because THEY, the men, are unsuccessful. You have no power over any other, the only person YOU can change is YOU. If YOU are unsuccessful, YOU need to buck up and find the solution.

If your solution is to seek a non-American, yay for you! I don't mind being "irrelevant" to a man who hates me. Again, let me reiterate: we don't want you, either (apparently), so it's okay. But it's NOT okay to keep whining without trying to do something about your situation.
 lastbat13
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 48
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Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 9:25:24 PM
OP - I don't approach because when I go out I'm there to do something and that's it. When I go to a bar I'm there to see the band. I go to the store to shop. I go to the library to get a book. I assume everyone else is there for some reason and doesn't want me bothering them any more than I want to be bothered. This does make it rather difficult to meet people.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 51
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Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:48:39 PM

First off, play fair--NO WOMAN has called any man "dancing monkey". That's dude on dude action.

Huh? It refers to the attitude you (and others) have in your post that a man has to do this little dance and do it well or be rejected and if he chooses not to do it, he's 'bitter', 'weak', 'not a real man', etc.

My problem with a lot of the negative posts from the men is the tone. And their INSISTENCE that WOMEN need to change because THEY, the men, are unsuccessful.

LOL. Tone? Try looking at your tone. The last 30 plus years have been full of DEMANDS from WOMEN that MEN CHANGE if you didn't notice. Of course that's just fine and dandy and things have changed to remove all the areas where men had the upper hand. But if some men would like to see some change where women do, it's 'man up, sissy'. Put the guy down, imply that he less than a man, etc and so forth. You keep doing it. You're doing it here.

On top of it you're saying men must play. No, men don't have to play, that's the point being made. Look at what you wrote, it's all from the view that men have to go and 'be successful' in being judged by women on how they play these games. The men just don't want to play anymore. They're tired of being judged and toyed with and just don't want to play any longer. Women then complain they aren't being approached much or only by player-type guys, wondering what is keeping men from approaching. That's the thread. You get an answer and then you go about putting the men down for it. Those women want to be approached more will adjust and men will start approaching them more. Simple as that.


You have no power over any other, the only person YOU can change is YOU. If YOU are unsuccessful, YOU need to buck up and find the solution.


DANCE MONKEY DANCE! Here you are again, demanding that men play these stupid games and play them well. The monkey has to dance and he shouldn't complain. Men are finding other solutions but you put them down for doing so.


If your solution is to seek a non-American, yay for you! I don't mind being "irrelevant" to a man who hates me. Again, let me reiterate: we don't want you, either (apparently), so it's okay. But it's NOT okay to keep whining without trying to do something about your situation.


Just keep proving my point over and over and over again. A man doesn't want to play your game or doesn't like your game, and you have to put him down, insult him, tell him he's not a man, etc and so forth because he won't play the stupid games. So fine, stick with the players and other men who are good at these stupid games. I'm sick of hearing women complain about how they can't find any good men. Maybe it's because a large percentage of good men have enough self respect not to play these stupid games? Not to be a dancing monkey or a dog doing tricks for a treat?
 WpgGentleman2
Joined: 6/19/2008
Msg: 52
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/21/2008 10:52:19 PM
When I chat-up a great looking woman in a bar, or flirt with a great looking woman in line at the grocery check-out, it is with one thing in mind: to give her a compliment and say thanks for the boost to my mood she gave me. I don't expect a date to result from it. I'm in it for the pleasant conversation.

If she wants it to go to the next level, she is either going to have to give me a clear signal or actually make the next move.

If I'm chatting with a more normal looking woman close to my age (50s), it is for the pleasant company. I'm not generally interested in taking it to the next level.

By the way, I lived in Toronto for 16 years. It is a fairly image conscious and pretentious city. Women there love to be approached; it boosts their prestige with their peers. And the hotter the guy they turn down, the greater the ego boost. Which is why I stop one step short. Occasionally they'll make the next step or send the clear signal, and by doing so the prestige thing changes. But usually I just enjoy the few minutes flirting.

It has been a few years since I've been to a place with dancing. But one thing that works at places with dancing and lots of girls dancing alone or together is to dance alone for one number. So few North American men are willing to dance alone that, no matter how lousy a dancer you are, after the number finishes you can ask just about any girl dancing alone or with another girl and she'll accept. You'll at least get the pleasure of her company for one or two dances, and she might let you join her at her table.
 Sapphireeyes
Joined: 1/13/2008
Msg: 53
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/22/2008 12:15:52 AM

**************Women seldom have to approach men*****************

- Obviously there are exceptions to this, but look around in any bar or club and the above statement holds true 95% of the time.

As a result of the above, a womans ego/image of herself becomes reinforced by positive male attention. Hence, to approach a man with her ego relatively inflated and then to get shot down, seems like a deathly experience which she would rather avoid.

Furthermore, she has no need to approach due to the lines of men worshiping the ground that she walks on. Which in turn drives other men away as they do not want to be one of the "hounders". Catch 22 once again.

Now mix all of the above with the general concensus that women hate being "hit on" by guys in bars/clubs anymore and bam, instant confusion for the male race. Oh and be sure to mix in a good dollop of Cosmo and Heat in there for added BS.


Women might not have to approach men, but have you ever wondered what it was like to sit there and watch THAT ONE GUY you really want to come talk to you just stand and watch, so you turn down guy after guy HOPING he will finally approach you and you have done everything but wave him over and then some other girl just walks right up to him and there he goes!!!!!!!!! :P

I know with me the ones who walked away and arent one of the "hounders" were the ones I liked. If you watch the "hounders" they hit on anything that moves and normally all the girls turn them down...but I am talking to YOU, yes, YOU! leaning against that rail with your drink in one hand, stop leaning and start coming this way!

(This guy I dated last fall told me if he had seen me out one night he would never have talked to me cause he wouldnt have wanted to wait in line! I told him there wouldnt have been a line if he had been around...)

and for the guy who was turned down by 27 girls ...after a few your heart wasnt in it and so the others could tell...you made it a game to see how many would turn you down...not all women are clueless.
 Sapphireeyes
Joined: 1/13/2008
Msg: 54
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/22/2008 12:25:43 AM

And I would say, quite frankly, that if she is alone, she WANTS to be alone, or to get laid. OUCH--hard to decide, huh? Did she look at you? Approach. Did she look at you then quickly roll her eyes and get back to reading her book? Do not approach.


Oh wow I cant believe a woman wrote that...that is like really stone-age thinking. What if the person was out of town and just wanted to go out...doesnt mean she wants to get laid! Geez!
 Frisky Monkey
Joined: 6/30/2008
Msg: 55
Approaching women, why not?
Posted: 7/22/2008 12:35:17 AM
Women approach men all the time, you just have to be observant enough to notice when. Just don't expect the hotties to be approaching you. Most of their time is spent fending off the drunken louts.
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