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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Bush says birth control equates to abortions      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 3
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Bush says birth control equates to abortionsPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

It will be the longest six months of my life.

I know. Will someone please wake me up when it's 2008.

It's hard to even fathom how someone given the highest honor in America can be such an imbecile.

tick tock goes the clock
 GOD.IS.A.BULLET
Joined: 6/4/2008
Msg: 4
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 7/22/2008 9:51:48 PM
I was under the impression that bush's answer to birth control was to simply kill thousands of children ( or should I say have them killed by military forces ) just because he felt it was necessary a few years ago when he was making decisions on how to rule the world ? Why would it make any difference if he decided to kill babies in america ? He'll just claim executive priviledge and most americans will sit on their hands and allow it anyway. He knows that.
 bliss serendipity
Joined: 12/27/2006
Msg: 5
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History
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 7/22/2008 11:06:44 PM
I wonder, does that include condoms too, both male and female ones too?

Wonder how the pharmaceuticals feel about this decision? They are a pretty powerful organization. Advertising will take quite a hit too!

Bliss
 PVS
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 6
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History
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 8/18/2008 7:56:56 PM
neoconservatism at its finest.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 7
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History
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 8/18/2008 8:33:16 PM

It will be the longest six months of my life.


Pins and needles.
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 8
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 8/18/2008 8:35:54 PM
bush is a useless drunk.

http://gawker.com/5035885/bush-looking-drunk-at-the-olympics
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 9
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History
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 8/18/2008 11:15:41 PM
Will someone please wake me up when it's 2008.



Wake Up!



 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 10
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 11/24/2012 8:31:35 AM

Bush says birth control equates to abortions

Science, proving Republicans wrong for some time now....


Surprise! The abortion rate just hit an all-time low.
Posted by Sarah Kliff on November 23, 2012 at 12:53 pm

After years of holding steady, new Center for Disease Control data shows that the United States abortion rate has fallen to an all-time low. It dropped 5 percent between 2008 and 2009, the most recent years for which data is available, the largest decline in the past decade....

...That research, published in the journal Fertility and Sterility, found that use of long-acting contraceptives tripled between 2002 and 2009. Most of that increase happened, however, in the last two years. The proportion of contraceptive users using this method increased from 2.4 percent in 2002 to 3.7 percent in 2007. Between 2007 and 2009, though, it shot up to 8.5 percent.

No research has found a causal relationship yet. What we know is a correlation: At the same time the abortion rate took a big drop, use of more effective contraceptives had recently increased. That seems like it could be one factor explaining why the abortion rate recently dropped, after years of holding steady.



Read more about why dummies should keep reading kids books during times of a national attack and stop making scientific predictions at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/11/23/surprise-the-abortion-rate-just-hit-an-all-time-low/?wprss=rss_homepage
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 11
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History
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 11/25/2012 12:13:38 AM

... found that use of long-acting contraceptives tripled between 2002 and 2009. Most of that increase happened, however, in the last two years. The proportion of contraceptive users using this method increased from 2.4 percent in 2002 to 3.7 percent in 2007. Between 2007 and 2009, though, it shot up to 8.5 percent.
Well if the Republicants get their way ... that will come to a screeching halt ... since as has been made pretty clear ... they don't want women to use contraceptives.

Hmmmm ... then I guess they'll just have to keep it zipped ... that or just switch teams. LMAO ... no need for birth control when switching teams ... eh?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 12
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 11/28/2012 9:10:24 AM
How do you know it's a repuglicant in the next stall??? He's tapping out morse code love notes with his foot at the partition.
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 13
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/8/2012 3:44:05 AM
Definition of ABORTION

1
: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as
a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation — compare miscarriage
b : induced expulsion of a human fetus
c : expulsion of a fetus by a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancy — compare contagious abortion
2
: monstrosity
3
: arrest of development (as of a part or process) resulting in imperfection; also : a result of such arrest
See abortion defined for English-language learners »
See abortion defined for kids »

Embryo -A fertilized egg that has begun cell division, often called a pre-embryo (for pre-implantation embryo). An embryo is now defined as a later stage, i.e. at the completion of" the pre-embryonic stage, which is considered to end at about day 14. The term, embryo, is used to describe the early stages of fetal growth, from conception to the eighth week of pregnancy.


With those definitions consider the following birth control methods...

Intrauterine Device (IUD) - A small device shaped in the form of a "T" that is placed inside the uterus by a health care provider. It works to prevent fertilization by keeping sperm from entering the fallopian tubes and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is less than 1%.*

Depo-Provera - Hormones delivered through injections, or shots, in the buttocks or arm every three months. It prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is less than 1%.*

Oral Contraceptives (Birth Control Pills) - Delivers hormones orally through a daily pill that prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is 5%.*

The Patch (Ortho Evra) - Hormones delivered through a skin patch worn on the lower abdomen, buttocks, or upper body. It prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is 5%.*

The Hormonal Vaginal Contraceptive Ring (NuvaRing) - Hormones delivered through a ring that is inserted into the vagina for three weeks at a time. It prevents ovulation, thickens the mucus lining so as to prevent fertilization, and thins the lining of the uterus, which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur. The estimated failure rate is 5%.*



All of these have the capability of being abortive in that they can cause the expulsion of the fertilized egg.

So Bush was right in the statement as presented here.
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 14
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/8/2012 4:48:37 AM
If you read the post you will see the fallibility rates of each method listed.
From 1 to 5 % -which means the eggs were fertilized.

Then the line... " which may prevent implantation if fertilization does occur".
Which means the fertilized egg cannot implant to the uterine wall.
So they are not fool proof in preventing fertilization and in fact can cause the expulsion of a fertilized egg.
In rare cases they all can be abortive.

So again the Bush statement as presented is correct.
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 15
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/8/2012 12:16:39 PM

Sooooo, one can infer that in most cases Bush is wrong. Okay!!! I'll agree with that. Hahahaha!!!


Well at least you admit they can be abortive.
Not that it changes anything or law.


Btw, your definition of "abortion" above needs a citation as it claims "monstrosity" is a fair way to define "abortion". It screams of a slanted bias. I don't believe the term "abortion" has much to do with "monsters".

Well it is certainly debatable but you need to take that up with Websters.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 16
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/8/2012 12:46:42 PM
So they are not fool proof in preventing fertilization and in fact can cause the expulsion of a fertilized egg.
In rare cases they all can be abortive.

You may want to go back and reread your own postings because they establish the falseness of what you have just said...

I'll point out the relevant parts for you, pay attention to the highlights...

Definition of ABORTION

1
: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as
a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation — compare miscarriage
b : induced expulsion of a human fetus
c : expulsion of a fetus by a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancy — compare contagious abortion

and

Embryo -A fertilized egg that has begun cell division, often called a pre-embryo (for pre-implantation embryo). An embryo is now defined as a later stage, i.e. at the completion of" the pre-embryonic stage, which is considered to end at about day 14. The term, embryo, is used to describe the early stages of fetal growth, from conception to the eighth week of pregnancy.

I won't address the lack of internal consistency in what you posted, even though it is huge, because the highlighted part is what is correct in human embryology...

You will note that your own post says it is called an embryo at day 14 AFTER implantation (before that it is a zygote)... If implantation does not occur there is no embryo, only a zygote, and therefore no abortion occurs by the terms of your own post (because it ain't an embryo or fetus yet)...

Congrats... in oh-so-cleverly trying to prove Bush's assertion was 'technically' correct you've managed to prove it wrong...
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 17
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/11/2012 12:25:14 PM
You need to read more.
Makes no difference your limited definition of the embryo.
The first line is ..."a fertilized egg".
You can debate when life begins but the facts are the facts.
All low dose contraceptives have the ability to be abortive as they may prevent a fertilized egg from implanting to the uterine wall.

Don't believe me then read the manufacturers own warning as listed in the Physician’s Desk Reference which is the most frequently used reference book by physicians in America. The PDR, as it’s often called, lists and explains the effects, benefits, and risks of every medical product that can be legally prescribed. The Food and Drug Administration requires that each manufacturer provide accurate information on its products, based on scientific research and laboratory tests.

Ortho-Cept
( desogestrel, ethinyl estradiol ) - Ortho-McNeil/Janssen
MECHANISM OF ACTION
Estrogen/progestogen oral contraceptive; acts by suppressing gonadotropins, primarily inhibiting ovulation, and causing other alterations, including changes in cervical mucus (increases difficulty of sperm entry into uterus) and endometrium (reduces likelihood of implantation).

http://www.pdr.net/drugpages/concisemonograph.aspx?concise=963

The first two mechanisms (inhibiting ovulation, increases difficulty of sperm entry into uterus) are contraceptive. The third (reduces likelihood of implantation) is abortive.

Knowledge sometimes can be a hard pill (pun intended) to swallow no doubt.
Next time do your own research.

Bush was right!
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 18
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/11/2012 2:10:21 PM
You need to read more.

Good advice... you should follow it...

Don't believe me then read the manufacturers own warning as listed in the Physician’s Desk Reference which is the most frequently used reference book by physicians in America. The PDR, as it’s often called, lists and explains the effects, benefits, and risks of every medical product that can be legally prescribed.
....
http://www.pdr.net/drugpages/concisemonograph.aspx?concise=963

Yes, I have my own copy, do you...? I guarantee you that I know far more about pharmacology than you ever will... It is a necessary part of my academic discipline... You will also note that NOWHERE in the monograph does it EVER list "abortion" as an effect, risk or side effect of the contraceptive...

Makes no difference your limited definition of the embryo.

It isn't MY definition... It is the definition used in human embryology...

The first line is ..."a fertilized egg"... but the facts are the facts.

Except 'fact' isn't what your assertion is... What makes no difference is the first line (embryo is defined differently between non-human animals and humans)... Allow me to further edumacate you...

Definition of EMBRYO
1
a archaic : a vertebrate at any stage of development prior to birth or hatching
b : an animal in the early stages of growth and differentiation that are characterized by cleavage, the laying down of fundamental tissues, and the formation of primitive organs and organ systems; especially : the developing human individual from the time of implantation to the end of the eighth week after conception
2
: the young sporophyte of a seed plant usually comprising a rudimentary plant with plumule, radicle, and cotyledons
3
a : something as yet undeveloped
b : a beginning or undeveloped state of something

You may note that this says the definition YOU rely on for humans is archaic... You may also note that it specifically says, for humans, from the time of implantation...

Here's another...

em·bry·o (mbr-)
n. pl. em·bry·os
1.
a. An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
b. An organism at any time before full development, birth, or hatching.
2.
a. The fertilized egg of a vertebrate animal following cleavage.
b. In humans, the prefetal product of conception from implantation through the eighth week of development.
3. Botany The minute, rudimentary plant contained within a seed or an archegonium.
4. A rudimentary or beginning stage: "To its founding fathers, the European [Economic] Community was the embryo of the United States of Europe" (Economist).


You can debate when life begins...

The debate about 'when life begins' is irrelevant to the definition of 'embryo'...

The third (reduces likelihood of implantation) is abortive.

Which is utterly wrong... See above...

Knowledge sometimes can be a hard pill (pun intended) to swallow no doubt.

Yes, it is... Sometimes it's big enough to choke on as I am sure you must be realizing by now...

Next time do your own research.

Again, good advice for you to follow... It might save me the trouble of having to correct you in future...

Bush was right!

Simply repeating it won't make it true... He was wrong as are you, just as I have shown above...
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 19
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/11/2012 8:27:45 PM
For the simplistic....

Better read your copy [laughable) again...
Of course the manufacturers don't mention abortion since they don't have to but "think McFly Think!"
What happens to a fertilized egg if it does not implant?
But of course it is aborted!

Don't be offended because your sacred cow is proven as abortive in minority of cases.
Abortion does not necessarily mean a medical procedure.
It can be natural i.e. miscarriage, it can be a side effect as in use of contraceptives or it can be a medical procedure.

Which ever way it's legal so try not to get so upset by the discussion.
I am not advocating or denying, simply stating facts that even the manufacturers and medical community admit.
Don't believe me then ask a doctor.

Bush 1, you 0.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 20
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/11/2012 9:00:02 PM
Don't be offended because your sacred cow is proven as abortive in minority of cases.
Abortion does not necessarily mean a medical procedure.
It can be natural i.e. miscarriage, it can be a side effect as in use of contraceptives or it can be a medical procedure.

ROFLMAO

You couldn't get by on the facts so now you're going to play this obtuse little word game...?

Well, I guess the joke is on you then... The Bush admin WAS talking about abortion as the outcome of a medical procedure...

(Reuters)
A copy of a memo that appears to be an HHS draft provided to Reuters, carries a broad definition of abortion.

"The Department proposes to define abortion as 'any of the various procedures -- including the prescription and administration of any drug or the performance of any procedure or any other action -- that results in the termination of the life of a human being in utero between conception and natural birth, whether before or after implantation,'" it said.
....
STATE LAWS 'TRUMPED'

The proposed rule is specifically designed to counter recent state laws enacted to ensure that women can get contraception when they want or need it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/15/us-abortion-usa-idUSN1536910620080715

So, I guess instead of:

Bush 1, you 0.

It's:
Me 1, Bush/obtuse little word games 0... eh...?
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 21
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/11/2012 9:53:02 PM
No joke on me... I didn't start the discussion.
Not sure what word game you speak of but ok have it your way the debate is obviously over.
Refer back to the OP but then that might be too much research for you.
Nothing obtuse about the truth and the definitions.
My statements are are they stand factual and backed up by the medical record and the pharmaceuticals own data.

You avoid the truth and try to deflect now that you realize you have no option.
But again don't be upset no one is trying to take abortive birth control away.

Game Over!
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 22
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/12/2012 4:51:01 AM

Refer back to the OP but then that might be too much research for you.

OK, I will... Here is the quote:

Well, he didn't really say "equates" because he's terminally polysyllabicly challenged but, hell, who's counting. Can you believe this moron? Are all republicans this mysogyinistic?
Ladies: Your president in action.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080718/pl_nm/abortion_usa_clinton_dc_4


NEW YORK (Reuters) - A Bush administration plan to define several widely used contraception methods as abortion is a "gratuitous, unnecessary insult" to women and faces tough opposition, Sen. Hillary Clinton said on Friday.

The former Democratic presidential candidate joined family planning groups to condemn the proposal that defines abortion to include contraception such as birth control pills and intrauterine devices.

It would cut off federal funds to hospitals and states where medical providers are obligated to offer legal abortion and contraception to women.

"We will not put up with this radical, ideological agenda to turn the clock back on women's rights," the New York senator told a joint news conference with New York Rep. Nita Lowey, also a Democrat, at Bellevue Hospital.

"Women would watch their contraceptive coverage disappear overnight," said Clinton.

same story as this... Just a different news outlet... but I guess that was "too much research", eh...?

(Reuters)
A copy of a memo that appears to be an HHS draft provided to Reuters, carries a broad definition of abortion.

"The Department proposes to define abortion as 'any of the various procedures -- including the prescription and administration of any drug or the performance of any procedure or any other action -- that results in the termination of the life of a human being in utero between conception and natural birth, whether before or after implantation,'" it said.
....
STATE LAWS 'TRUMPED'

The proposed rule is specifically designed to counter recent state laws enacted to ensure that women can get contraception when they want or need it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/15/us-abortion-usa-idUSN1536910620080715

Now...

My statements are are they stand factual and backed up by the medical record and the pharmaceuticals own data.

You avoid the truth and try to deflect now that you realize you have no option.

Your statements are irrelevant to the context of the point of the OP... your apples to the OP's oranges...

In short you have proved nothing beyond an inability to successfully play word games... At least against Mungojoe...
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 23
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/12/2012 5:23:47 AM
Mun... so glad you agree with me that the birth control methods I mentioned, can if fact be abortive in a minority of cases.
As for the Bush policy ... did it happen? Will it happen?

Think about it. Are you are so blinded by your hatred that you don't even realize that the Bush Administration is long gone.

As for that policy, it was a comment from Sen. Clinton. Not sure that the Bush Admin ever planned this and if they did they were right (and glad we agree) as birth control methods can in fact be abortive as previously proven.

So sorry that you view the facts as "word games".
Who knew that the written word could be so confusing, eh?

My statements were very clear and I listed specifically those methods which can be abortive in certain circumstances.
Its interesting to know that the original pill was a "high dose" but they were linked to cancer and other concerns so "Low Dose" pills were developed which I believe is the reason there is a 5% failure rate in their ability to prevent fertilization and the possibility of spontaneous abortion.
No word games here just facts.

Good luck with the hatred thingy.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 24
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 12/12/2012 2:43:53 PM
As for that policy, it was a comment from Sen. Clinton.

Um, no... the policy was not a comment from Sen Clinton... Clinton commented on the policy... a world of difference...

Not sure that the Bush Admin ever planned this...

Well then... I think that perhaps it is time for you to undertake that "research thingy" you advocate for others...

So sorry that you view the facts as "word games".

That's the problem... your "facts" aren't facts within the context of the OP... 'Abortion', in the context of the story the OP references, refers to the medical procedure, not any generalized definition... Your attempt to rely on overly broad, general definitions rather than the definitions specific to the medical procedure the OP referred to is what makes it "word games"... Kind of like insisting that it is a "fact" that all homosexual males must be exuberant and happy because they call themselves 'gay'... in short, an obtuse little word game...

Who knew that the written word could be so confusing, eh?

They aren't to me... but then again, I wasn't the one trying to play word games... I knew what the OP was about and stayed in context... Such word games might be more successful in future if you restrict yourself to playing them with people who are less educated than you...

Are you are so blinded by your hatred that you don't even realize that the Bush Administration is long gone.
....
Good luck with the hatred thingy.

Now you are just being a troll (not that you weren't earlier)... Are you disappointed that you couldn't get a reaction from me (sorry, that takes much more skill than has been evinced so far)...?

as birth control methods can in fact be abortive

Well of course they can fail to prevent pregnancy... very little is 100% certain... What has that got to do with medical abortion...?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 25
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 2/19/2013 5:48:16 AM
In an attempt to carry on the GOP tradition of not understand science:

Mary Sue McClurkin, Alabama GOP Lawmaker, Claims A Baby Is The 'Largest Organ In A Body'
The Huffington Post | By Amanda Terkel Posted: 02/18/2013 5:51 pm EST | Updated: 02/18/2013 5:58 pm EST

Alabama state Rep. Mary Sue McClurkin (R) is pushing legislation that would impose restrictions on abortion clinics -- a move that she argues is necessary because the procedure is a major surgery that removes the largest "organ" in a woman's body.

“When a physician removes a child from a woman, that is the largest organ in a body,” McClurkin told the Montgomery Advertiser on Thursday. “That’s a big thing. That’s a big surgery. You don’t have any other organs in your body that are bigger than that...

...McClurkin's bill would impose stringent requirements on abortion clinics that could make it hard for them to keep their doors open. It would, according to the Montgomery Advertiser, "require physicians at abortion clinics to have admitting privileges at local hospitals; require clinics to follow ambulatory clinic building codes and make it a felony -- punishable by up to 10 years in prison -- for a nurse, nurse practitioner or physician’s assistant to dispense abortion-inducing medications."


Read more about the GOP's total fail at knowledge of the human body at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/18/mary-sue-mcclurkin-baby-largest-organ_n_2712812.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 26
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 7/26/2013 11:28:19 AM
This is one viewpoint of the Republican party that I am completely baffled by. How the hell can you be against abortion AND birth control. They can't possibly believe that abstinence is the answer.

I've heard the argument many times that they don't want to pay for birth control. But that is the SOLUTION to the problem.

I know my views on this issue are not popular with either "side". I believe our young people should be well educated about it and that birth control should be free and readily available. But I would also like to see REASONABLE restrictions on abortion term limits. Most of the current laws being enacted by "red" states are severely restrictive. But really now, shouldn't any aborton clinic be ready and able to handle any type of emergency situation that may arise.

I've pressed my nieces hard to get and stay on birth control. I fervently hope abortion is not a decision that either one will ever have to make. But I do want for them to have that choice.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 27
Bush says birth control equates to abortions
Posted: 7/26/2013 2:22:14 PM
My kids are 11 and 12 and I'm currently getting them vaccinated against HPV...why??? Because that is what a responsible parent does!
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