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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > McCain and Age      Home login  
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 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 2
McCain and AgePage 1 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Maybe he'll redeem himself and join James Garfield, who so far is the only US president honorable enough to die before doing any real damage.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 3
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:47:59 AM
So William Henry Harrison doesn't count? He was only in office a month before dying of pneumonia.

In answer to the OP, I don't think either of them will serve more than one term, but at least with McCain it will be because he doesn't run for a second term due to age. Further the country won't have suffered harm.

In the case of Obama, it will be because the people run his azz out of the country on a rail. I don't think he'll even survive his first term. Can we spell impeachment?
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 5
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 7:07:15 AM
I happen to know him. Do you?

He's a man of integrity. He won't run if he thinks he can't do the job.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 7
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 7:57:00 AM
Reagan had already won his second term when he started to slip. I agree that he should have stepped down, but that's a moot point now.

I don't see dementia being a problem with McCain, just physical limitations. The Mitchell Center study has shown that Vietnam POWs don't live as long as the general public (nor as long as their controls in the study). So far McCain is a vigorous in-shape 72 year old with some limitations (like not being able to raise his hands above his head) that I don't see as an impediment to running for office.

I started another thread that seems destined to the garbage can, but the gist of it is that nothwithstanding Obama's lead most people think McCain has better leadership skills, and people feel more comfortable with him. There was a story about it in the WSJ this morning.

We have two imperfect candidates -- so we have to pick one is old but with leadership capabilities the other is young, but way wet behind the ears.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 9
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 8:37:08 AM
McCain's cancer isn't all that important. He's had VERY small melanomas removed from his face. One in every 58 people will get a melanoma in their life time. McCain is followed very carefully.

He had 4 incidences between 2000 and 2002, none since. So it's been six years since he had an occurrence. Most medical professionals consider a 6 year absence of symptoms a cure.

I know you were trying to make a joke, but the President does not have carte blanche with the nuclear codes. An inadvertent attack is much more probable via theft. Even those planes loaded with nuclear missles had no plutonium on board.

To me age isn't a factor in THIS 4 year term, and it is much, much less of a concern to me than Obama's inexperience, not to mention much of Obama's political agenda. We only have these two men to pick from. There are no viable 3rd party candidates. One of them WILL be the next President.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 11
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 8:55:08 AM
Nah, I'll save that for Obama. He thinks there are 59 states (57 plus the two he didn't get around to visiting). If he can't get a simple thing like that right, what's the chance he can be our President.

Seems like the general public also thinks McCain is a better leader, according to a WSJ poll announced today. Obama supporters are voting on the issues, and then hoping their canddiate has the competency to follow through.

Anyone remember Jimmy Carter?
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 15
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 9:37:14 AM

Ooooo....*shudder* I just wubs hanging out wif important peoples, don't you? What everrrrrrr.......

^^^^^ Love the sardonic comments, Teach. Keeps my chin up in spite of the mess we're in.
On Topic, the boatloads of 18 and up first time voters are going to show the senior citizen McCain that their votes count, unlike many elections of years past. Age is a determinant, especially in this election. And they'll illustrate, to all who wish for Mccain to take office, that his drivel is simply too much to bear, that every person over the age of 18 has a voice, a vote, and that they're tired of the present crisis we're in. Mcain probably wont' even garner 10% of the under 30 voters. IF Mcain could somehow distance himself from Bush, he might have a snowballs chance in he!l of winning, but even that would be a stretch based on his lacking intelligence or his misguided stances, and he's still riding the coattails of one of the most disliked Presidents in this Countries history. Come November, I'll be enthralled to come in here and hear all the "whiners" complaining about how Obama rigged the election or how the 'liberally soft' media won him the election, anything, except that the people voted him into office based on his merit.
I remember Carter, too, and he was ahead of his time in office. He was stagnated because he couldnt' get anything through Congress, but he also felt he needed to put a finger on each and every legislative piece that crossed his desk. He's done more, now, out of office, than when he was in office. But his age was of no real consequence, as he's still, to this day, very clear minded and capable of doing great things, much more than any other President since he held office.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 16
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 9:46:23 AM

For the record, some of us have actually read enough to know that IF we had listened to Carter 30 odd years ago we would no longer be dependent upon oil.


Well, that's the point. A President without the skills to make things happen is less than useless -- regardless of whether you agree with his policies or not.

Competency is more important than issues, remember what happened in Iran? Carter didn't know how to use diplomacy and Iran held onto the hostages until the morning Reagan took office.

Even if I did agree with 100 percent of Obama's platform, I still wouldn't vote for him. Nor would I vote for my neighbor, my dog walker, my maid, or my favorite bartender -- even though we DO agree on the issues.

Obama = 4 years of getting nothing done.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 18
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 10:51:23 AM
According to a recent Gallup Poll, American's confidence in Congress is at an all time low.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108856/Congressional-Approval-Hits-RecordLow-14.aspx

And if you look at the link above, you'll note that the confidence rating has been FALLING since Democrats took charge of both Houses in 2006.

Gallup also shows Obama with a very slim lead, which is not significant given that some 10 - 12 percent of voters are still undecided:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109060/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Maintains-Slim-Advantage-Over-McCain.aspx

Is this your version of the GOP "getting its clock cleaned"?
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 21
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 11:41:32 AM
Well, for one thing, you're hijacking your own thread which is about McCain.

However, just because a lot of seats are open doesn't mean that the Democrats will pick up seats. Since all 435 seats in the House are elected every 2 years, I don't particularly feel like going through each one and figure out what might change. As far as the Senate goes, up to three could change from Republican to Democrat. All are open races (i.e., no incumbent):

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/election2008/2008-election-map.html

Being that I've spent a lot of time in the DC area, I can tell you that Mark Warner, a Democrat will almost assuredly beat Jim Gilmore, the Republican. Both are former Governors of Virginia, and Mark Warner is very, very wealthy and could outspend Gilmore anyway. Further, Warner got Virginia out of a fiscal mess that Gilmore got the state into.

However, Warner is a huge fiscal conservative, so if you're looking for him to vote for big spending programs like UHC, you're barking up the wrong tree. You can count on Warner to vote more or less like Joe Lieberman.

Don't know about the other two races.

Now if you feel like going through all 435 House races and tell me which you think might turn over, I'm listening.
 Thatguy67
Joined: 9/20/2006
Msg: 24
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 5:31:22 PM
The GOP. Grand Old Presidents.

I remember people made a big deal about Reagan and his age when he first got elected. The oldest president in 140 years or so.

Some presidential trivia.
Someone here mentioned William Henry Harrison. He died after 1 month in office, he was the oldest (67) until Reagan became president.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 28
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:22:05 PM

He also perhaps has lost some of the arrogance

I'd say to the contrary... his arrogance is his shield.
I commend anyone who fights for our Country or has been victim to torture or POW's in Vietnam or any other foreign land, but that in no way makes him a viable candidate to run our Country at this unprecedented time in history. His plans call for (basically) a continuation of the same course Bush has been on, and I wouldn't trust any plans he has of bringing our troops home after his infamous 100 years in Iraq bumbling. I'm thinking he's really sorry for making that statement, as it clearly illustrated how out of synch he is with reality. We all used to think Reagan was trigger happy, but McCain shows his true colors again and again. Any potential leader of the free world should have more decency than to make such a ludicrous claim over the soveignty of another nation or his plans to occupy their land. And age is a clear and prsent consideration, especially when one considers that all of America (over 18) is able to vote. Age does not make him any better or more experienced than someone half his age. It's not even his age that is his downfall, but it's clearly something that is not in his advantage, and the young high school grads or college students, that have been absent in recent elections, will be showing up in boatloads this November. I'm just surprised a woman like yourself is still clinging to the same old right wing dogma.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 32
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:54:45 PM
Oh Lord, he doesn't have PTSD or dementia. Is that all you got?
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 33
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McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:56:11 PM
I do recall McCain was recently posed with a few questions regarding, of all things, Viagra. And to my dismay (as I'm still trying to find something cognitive about him) his memory failed him once aagain, and his reply was he'd need to check his log on his past decisions. In short, he failed to be able to respond to simple questions that most people could snap right back with. So, yeah, I think the man may have been a highly viable cadidate, 8 yrs ago, but at his present age, and with his memory recall, or anger issues, well... I'm just not content thinking of him in 2-4 yrs running our Country. MY dad is his same age and has trouble remembering facts that would seem obviously within his recall. It happens at that age for a lot of people, just like eyesight goes bleak somewhere around 40, for most all adults. In all cases? No, of course not, but he's already showing signs of failed memory, doesn't understand the economy, and seems more trgger happy than Reagan.
I think we should learn from the Reagan days and remember that Nancy was running the White House then. DO we really need a repeat of that?
 o76923
Joined: 11/3/2007
Msg: 35
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 7:14:22 PM
I'm not going to lie or hide my biases here. I'm a firm believer that as long as society is patronizing to the young because they're incapable of X, we should be just as patronizing to the old because they're incapable of the same X. Generally I favor being less patronizing all around, but hey, we should be fair.

That being said. I am concerned about McCain's mindset. I'm not saying that he isn't as sharp as a tack. I am willing to wager he could probably whip me in an argument. He also probably knows a hell of alot more about things like war, torture, or being a prisoner than I ever will (may the gods protect me). However, I think that his mindset was shaped during a different era, an era we are no longer in.

Naming places like Czechoslovakia is a good example. It was a dangerous region back in the day. Lots of war and lots of problems. In fact, it lead to alot of terrorism and instability in the region. However, today that's not really a problem. In 1993 it peacefully split into The Chezch Republic and Slovakia. Something like that is ok to chalk up to a slip of the tongue sometimes, but it has been 15 full years. It isn't the biggest news story, but since it came up it must be relevant.

Also, confusing details like Shia and Sunni (repeatedly) is another concern. Back in the day, it was ok to not pay attention to those differences. Nobody outside the middle east cared, we just wanted a puppet regime, regardless of what they taught or did. These days the difference is monumentally important because we realize that alot of the fighting in the middle east is between the Shiites and Sunnis.

I admit, we should let him slide on mistakes that are purely misspeaking. I'm even willing to give him confusing Iraq and Afghanistan (they're both insufferable wars we're stuck in for no reason and made worse just by being there). But, there's another big old world viewpoint that concerns me. His insistence that we need to win the war is somewhat disturbing. Wanting to deploy more troops, have another surge, and that sort of mentality isn't really how war works anymore. Your goal in war today isn't to rout or utterly annihilate your enemy. It's to fight to the point where they cry uncle. On top of that, it's not the US's job to fight all wars anymore. We are only supposed to be there until the "good guys" can do it themselves. Will there still be fighting in Iraq 10 years from now? probably. However, is it within the ability of the Iraqis to manage? pretty much.

McCain almost is acting like it is the cold war again. Except instead of the war on the other side being against the USSR, it's with Terrorism on the other side. It's a very can't back down, can't give up an inch, have to prove a point strategy. But that isn't how you defeat terrorism. Political unrest leads to terrorism because the terrorists are so dissatisfied with something they see no outlet other than violence. They believe the government has failed them so them and they now have to act on their own to either make a new government or to just do it themselves. Routing them and installing a new government that will take a harder stance on terrorism is actually going to make the problem worse.

I'm not saying that Obama would be any different if he grew up in the 40s and 50s. However, he didn't. Obama grew up in the 70s and 80s. They're very different times politically and shape your worldview in big ways.

So for the most part I'm not as concerned with how old he is, as I'm concerned with when he was born. However, messing up remembering what should've been one of the most traumatic points of your life does worry me somewhat about the age...
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 40
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 7:56:54 PM

He's done more, now(Jimmy Carter) , out of office, than when he was in office. But his age was of no real consequence, as he's still, to this day, very clear minded and capable of doing great things, much more than any other President since he held office.
This , The Historian, is the difference between Carter and Mccain. We don't see Carter making one bumbling statement after another, nor is he forgetting his platform (or course of action), but instead, is still highly articulate,capable and well within what many would consider a sane state of mind. Mccain has failed on so many accounts, that the media (through some compassionate gesture) has clearly covered his tracks on numerous occasions. So, it isn't Mccains age, so much, nor his gaff, nor his obvious anger issues, so much as he's constantly checking to see what he said last on a particular subject, or forgetting his stance on issues other than the 'occupation' of Iraq.

But, there's another big old world viewpoint that concerns me. His insistence that we need to win the war is somewhat disturbing. Wanting to deploy more troops, have another surge, and that sort of mentality isn't really how war works anymore. Your goal in war today isn't to rout or utterly annihilate your enemy. It's to fight to the point where they cry uncle

You mean much like Bush 41 and the Persian Gulf war, yes. War today is not meant to be protracted, not with the military capabilities we have at our disposal. so the call for a surge, more troops (20,000) is just a means of protracting an unwinable war. If he'd of said 250,000 troops, then I'd likely have stood up and cheered for him, if in fact winning is our objective. But it's not, and he didn't. This isn't a war at all, it's an occupation, without UN support.
So, much as I hate to say, MCains idea of a surge sounds ominously too much like Bush's Best, and I"m not talking baked beans.
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 45
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 8:19:48 PM

Barbe, they can't do that. All they have on McCain is his age.


OH?
How about yesterday when he said the Anbar Awakening couldn't have happened without the surge? (AA happened in 9/06, surge didn't start untio 2/07) or when he said that Iraq bordered Pakistan the day before that?... OR when he challenged Obama to go to Iraq? *for him, that went over like a led balloon, didn'tit?* )
McCain's not only old. He's a dope.... and if that's not bad enough, he supports Bush's policies.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 47
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 8:32:25 PM

All they have on McCain is his age. Here are a group of people, (the Democrats), who scream "racist, racist" every chance they get when they're talking Obama, but they don't see the irony in putting McCain down over age. This is discrimination at its finest
Oh yeah ,grasping.......... at straws..... right.


^^^^^^this reminds me of the stork that flies in, flapping it's wings, flying all around, shitting all over the place , and then flies off.

Just gotta stir things up huh...
talk about grasping at straws.
Like Teach said, if saying it over and over and over seems to make it real in your mind, fine by all means, do as you wish, but... the fact that you're not actually addressing anyones comments directly, or offering some cognitive rebuttal, but are instead, just making generalized statements about how pigheaded all the 'racists' democrats are, really doesn't speak to having much character, integrity, or an actual posture on the subject. I want ot say it's beneath you, but... I've read enough and...well....it's just par for the course, I',m afraid.
Sorry to repost, not trying to hijack the thread, but some things just need to be said.
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 53
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 9:03:57 PM

being president is no job for a guy in his 70s. its the hardest most complex job in the world.

Well, it can be, if the person WORKS at it...
This is something Dubyah never did. He'll be dodging trees and tripping on stairs and going on vacations and saying "wall st. is drunk"... what a joke...

Reagan had Alzheimer's and didn't even run the government the last 4 years...except to say "I can't recall" when questioned about the Iran/contra arms deal...

Bush I worked hard at his job, but was very ineffective as the republican party didn't really respect him.

I was never a bush fan, but I have to be honest... I think he worked hard at the presidency. Sadly, his whole administration was fairly incompetent.. much like Carter's...

When he tried to stick it to the Japanese and they laughed in his face... offering the US foreign aid... it was a shameful moment for the US... very humiliating... and his choking on the steak and getting heimliched was really a moment of truth... about where we were at after Reagan's years... that we couldn't throw our weight around anymore.. even to Japan.

Obama is very energetic and THAT tells me that he may work hard once he gets in office.. and because the democrats need him very badly, they'll probably support him. That's a key thing with a democrat. If the party supports him, he'll be great. If they don't, he'll be hung out to dry, like Carter. Great man, bad government.

The republicans usually support their guy. The administration might be incompetent, like Bush II's, but they'll always support him. They know what side their bread is buttered on.

I think Obama's a good choice. That's the way I'm going anyway.
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 55
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/24/2008 9:41:36 PM
I don't know if he is too old. He seem in OK shape. He doesn't know a lot of things, but I don't think that is a reflection of his age, just ignorance on certain subjects.

I do think that given his age and the years as a POW, that his running mate must be more qualified than a Dan Quale clone. . . Just in case. But, I think that the VP never seems to be more than a poitical chip, to try to get a few extra votes.

If McSame were to win, I wish that Powell was hi VP. He is, by far, the most respected R in the country.

I would love to see Richards or Clinton on the D side. I think either of them would make a fine president. I like Richards as Sec of St better though.

But I don't think age is a factor, as long as you have healthcare. . . Too bad that excludes 47 million Americans. . .
 o76923
Joined: 11/3/2007
Msg: 56
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 12:47:58 AM
I really think the claims that liberals attack McCain's age are a little silly. When we say he's too old, we aren't saying there is something wrong with having been alive that long. We also aren't saying that old people are by definition stupid, backwards thinking, or anything else. However, we are addressing that there are some things that ___CAN___ come with age. McCain seems to have some of them. The life of someone who grew up during WWII and the Cold War era has different stances on things than the postmodern world. Not saying he's a bad person, just that he would've been a far more effective president during his own era. I wouldn't vote for somebody who grew up in the civil war and was cryogenically frozen, nor would I vote for somebody who time traveled back from 50 years in the future. He just traveled through time the old fashion way and wound up somewhere he doesn't understand.

And the attacks on his being old as they relate to his health aren't attacking old people because they're different. They are attacking him because he is showing symptoms of a medical condition that would impact his presidency. I wouldn't vote for a president who flew into violent fits of rage when he heard the word "salt," nor would I vote for a president who lost his tongue in an accident. I don't think that either of those would make them bad people, I just think that they shouldn't be running the country.

There is a correlation between having an advanced age and having certain medical conditions. There are also correlations between race and having certain medical conditions. However, only one of the candidates is exhibiting symptoms of a condition that is correlated. Obama isn't showing signs of high blood pressure, AIDS, stroke, or heart attack (all correlated with being Black). However difficulty speaking, inability to retain new information, decreased planning skills, mood swings, and inconsistent logic are all associated with some forms of dementia. That's what we're worried about.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 57
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:26:54 AM

Here are a group of people, (the Democrats), who scream "racist, racist" every chance they get when they're talking Obama, but they don't see the irony in putting McCain down over age. This is discrimination at its finest and it shows who the true hypocrites are at the end of the day.


Funny thing, in a thread titled McCain and age, people are talking about McCain being old.
I'd say republicans are willing to overlook his inability to remember little things like the difference between Afghanistan and Iraq and Shia and Sunni.
They are overlooking his years of womanizing, infidelity and boozing because he appears lifestyle has caught up with him. I've seen many hard drinking womanizers have trouble in later years with inappropriate bursts of anger and blaming everyone around them for their personal failures.
 flyonthewall!
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 58
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:51:14 AM
McCain hasn't been "womanizing" in over 25 years. If I remember correctly, our last President did that quite a lot. Cigar, Oval Office. Ring a bell?

We who don't like Obama only have one alternative. Pick a guy (Obama) with whose policies we don't agree, who has no experience to implement those policies even if we did agree, and who counts some very questionable people as his close personal friends. Or we can pick an upright citizen, with 24 years of public service, who served his country honorably, but just happens to be a little older.

You make it sound like there's some OTHER choice. There isn't. So I pick the guy with integrity.

McCain 08
 flawedbutfun
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 59
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:52:04 AM
Is it just me? Does McCain seem to be getting older by the day. Every time I see him on TV he seems older and more tired looking.
 MacKevinized
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 62
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History
McCain and Age
Posted: 7/25/2008 7:10:07 AM

McCain hasn't been "womanizing" in over 25 years. If I remember correctly, our last President did that quite a lot. Cigar, Oval Office. Ring a bell?


Yea right! 25 years ago McLame would have been at that age where most women lose their interest in 'dirty old men' interested in womanizing with wives waiting at home.
McLame had to stop when he landed a rich woman and turned to politicizing instead of womanizing and thanks to her money, he's where he is today.
The same guy that got a bj in the oval office also said "It's the economy stupid." and actually fixed it.

All McSame can remember not is "Obama is wrong because... blah yada blah" and You should be afraid of Obama because... yada, blah,blah,yada,blah"

Integrity would be for McCain to have a platform that's not based on anti-Obama sloganism.
Integrity would be for McLame to stop being so McVain and get some glasses so he can read a tele-prompter and at least appear like he's in touch with today's world.
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