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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran      Home login  
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 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 2
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with IranPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Sounds like Operation Northwoods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

How do these brainstorming sessions get so crazy? Thankfully they don't seem to go beyond the brainstorming stage, but then occasionally opportunities fall in their laps, like the Gulf of Tonkin incident and 9/11.

It's very similar to the fallacy of coming to a conclusion first, then finding evidence that supports it, even if it means manufacturing evidence.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 9
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 8/1/2008 10:28:58 AM
We don't know. We don't know that this subject was discussed in a meeting, for that matter. Presidents don't even know everything that is going on behind the scenes. I just go with the available information and process it with a lot of help from Occam's Razor.
 Green Sangha
Joined: 3/12/2008
Msg: 10
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 8/1/2008 10:30:57 AM
Hersh's sources have been reliable and he is well-respected for getting insider's information that others can't get. The news media has always relied on inside sources. I guess when you are mad that your guys are bordering insane in their schemes to grab more power you have to grasp at straws and attack the messenger. Makes sense, doesn't make it right, but makes sense.

These kinds of strategy sessions where obscene things are considered are routine in this administration, and if my recollection is correct, they often are in the Vice President's office (or should we stop with the ruse and just call him the President?). I won't speculate on 9/11, but I will say this attempt to provoke a war to serve their own ends is insane. I don't know if they will allow Bush's term to end, especially given McCain's poor showing, without provoking Iran one way or another. It makes me sick!
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 11
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 8/1/2008 10:58:27 AM
The US has been attempting to provoke a war with Iran ever since we got our hostages back. In fact, the only reason the Iranians took US hostages, (all of whom were returned safe and sound.. in fact 16 of them were released for health reasons, because they were women and other reasons before all the rest were released) was because they knew if they didn't take them, the US would immediately attack and throw down their revolution and reinstate the Shah as quick as you can bat an eye.
Only weeks after the hostages were released, Reagan sicc'd Saddam Hussein on them to attempt to steal their oil fields, starting a ten year war that Reagan even gave Saddam biochemical weapons to use on them and it didn't work. The Iranians defended their oil fields anyway... and Saddam wound up using biochems on his own people because when he started losing, Iraq saw a golden opportunity to overthrow HIM... which, because of those biochemical weapons given him by the US, they were not able to do. He used them on his own people.
Afew years later, the US shot one of their airliners down in Iranian airspace...
It's about oil... just like Iraq.
When Iran nationalized it's oil in the early 1950s, the US put in a puppet government to try to get it back. Even Pahlavi was smart enough to know the if the multinational corporations ever got Iran's oil back, he'd be a dead man, so he never did it.
All Iran wants is to be left alone.
 eeeo4U
Joined: 6/25/2007
Msg: 14
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 8/1/2008 2:13:32 PM
Let's see...British Intelligence knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. They did not notify the Americans and according to legend Churchill liquidated all who knew this...
As long as there have been wars and rumors of wars there have been rumors of conspiracies at the top to start wars. As long as young men fight and old men rule this will unfortunately be the way. I was waiting in Egypt as one of the backup company tasked with seizing the Tehran airport on that day the helicopters crashed in the desert. I was ready to kill anything Iranian...I remember we had T-shirts with pictures of Khomeini in a bullseye target and the caption, "Put a Hola in the Ayatollah!"
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 16
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 8/1/2008 2:18:15 PM
^^I've also read that Iran agreed to release the hostages but Bush Sr. worked out a deal to have them wait until Reagan was in office so he would get the credit. Can probably find it on Google, I'm too lazy ATM..
 eeeo4U
Joined: 6/25/2007
Msg: 17
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 8/1/2008 2:23:14 PM
So that's why Reagan raised not only my pay and that of my fellow soldiers every year he was in office, but pushed through appropriations for better training and equipment as well. He sold out Beckwith's troops in the desert and Wayne Downing's, my group, in the Sinai...and supported the military to assauge his guilt. I've been idolizing the man for 30 years but I don't know what to believe any more.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 19
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 8/1/2008 6:34:53 PM
Flash your memories back a few months, that little run in with the Iranians in the straits, all blamed on some rogue loudmouth who apparently loves to get on the airwaves and taunt the navies in the Persian Gulf area. How quick were the talking heads to portray that as an Iranian attempt to attack our Navy.

Then there were the press conferences, ready to show Iranian weapons smuggled into Iraq...until the Pentagon cancelled, realizing the evidence wasn't evidence at all.

If McCain loses the ticket and Obama gets the vote for the White House, watch what Cheney tries in those last few weeks. If McCain wins the vote, Cheney may back off, thinking there's hope for the neocon future....
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 21
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 2/7/2012 5:12:55 PM

If McCain loses the ticket and Obama gets the vote for the White House, watch what Cheney tries in those last few weeks. If McCain wins the vote, Cheney may back off, thinking there's hope for the neocon future....
Unfortunately, the warmongers just won't give up.

They're still carrying the big stick for Israel. How much longer will it take for them to realize that Israel is not in any way, shape, or form our ally? Hopefully now that "Dumbya" and "Dick The Torturer" are gone we can get on with our lives ... cleaning up their mess.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 22
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 2/9/2012 12:34:11 PM

Does anyone take anything Paul Joseph Watson and Alex Jones says seriously? That's just dim.


You are absolutely correct about that. Thre are people who don't know the difference between entertainment journalism and informative reporting. Those who are spreading rumors of imminent war are most likely hoping to make profits from their speculative investments.

They keep on pushing their views even though the U.S. government officials have clearly stated that the policy is to gather support to impose sanctions on Iran with the goal of bringing Iran to the table and negotiate a solution to the issue of development of nuclear power/weapons by Iran. There are strong indications that the sanctions are beginning to have an effect on the Iranian currency, as the payment default to India indicates. Iran may soon be unable to import enough food.

The New York Times reported today on the status of the recent discussions between the governments of the U.S. and Israel.


President Obama tried to defuse arguments for military action in a telephone call last month with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, the substance of which was confirmed by an Obama administration official who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to describe the conversation. While the two men have had an often contentious relationship over Middle East diplomacy, American officials emerged from that exchange persuaded that Mr. Netanyahu was willing to give economic sanctions and other steps time to work.


And even more eye opening is the admonition by P.M. Netanyahu to Israeli officials:


Administration officials also noted a distinction in the tone of Mr. Barak and Mr. Netanyahu, who does not publicly favor the phrase “zone of immunity.” This week, an American official noted, Mr. Netanyahu declared that on the topic of Iran, officials should just “shut up.”

“I think that’s good advice,” the American official said.


Warmongers may become a bit more informed by reading the complete article found at this link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/world/middleeast/us-and-israel-split-over-how-to-deter-iran.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=politics
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 23
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 2/18/2012 8:58:31 PM
^^^^^^
Hackers Dupe Users with Bogus US-Iran War Spam
A weekend spam run tried to dupe recipients into downloading the infamous "Storm Trojan" by attaching files that posed as fake missile-strike videos.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 25
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 2/19/2012 11:55:29 AM
Sending their navy to the Med doesn't make much sense. They're quickly getting out of the range that they can provide logistical support and project force. Lacking the ability to field aircraft, their navy isn't capable of autonomous operation.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 26
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 2/19/2012 1:16:37 PM

Two Iranian navy vessels entered the Mediterranean in February last year. Israel called it a "provocation".
LMAO ... If an Iranian sneezed and was looking in Israel's direction, Israel would consider that a "provocation".


The mission comes amid heightened tension between Iran and Israel.
The only "tension" I have been able to find is that Israel is hell bent on a war with Iran ... but only if "Bully Sr." does all the work and foots the bill. They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Israel needs to fight their own war and leave us out of it.


Iran has recently announced developments in its nuclear programme, prompting some speculation Israel may launch an attack on Iranian nuclear facilities.
Israel has no reason to be concerned about Iran's nuclear program. Iran is a sovereign nation and has every right to build any weapon it wants (if in fact that's what they're doing) and it's no one's business.


Israel has also blamed Iran for recent attacks on Israeli targets in Georgia and India, an accusation Tehran denies.
Well if they didn't do it, why should they take responsibility for it? I wouldn't be surprised if the Mossad did it. They'd do anything to get a war started with Iran.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 27
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/1/2012 8:43:48 PM
For those of you actually interested in looking at the Iran/Israel incident critically (and I think there may only be like 3 or 4 people here who are interested in anything more than blind propaganda and hating one side or the other irrespective of practical issues), an interesting article: http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/things-to-think-about-before-israel-attacks-iran/

Weighs the political and military issues at play if Israel actually tries to hit Iran, including trying to overcome the religious problems in convincing other countries to use airspace, the size of the installations Iran has, whether they're strikeable, and what kind of damage could be done. As much as other mid-east countries don't want Tehran to have nuclear capabilities, they like Israel less (except the Sauds, and maybe the Iraqis).

Excerpts:



The Iranian bomb program isn’t about just Natanz.

In fact, Natanz is almost redundant. There are two paths to developing a nuke: Enrichment to get Uranium-235, or extraction of Plutonium-239 from used reactor fuel. The Iranians are pursuing both routes.

There are seven publicly known installations at four locations that are essential to the Iranian nuclear weapons program: The heavy water reactor and heavy water plant at Arak, the uranium enrichment sites at Natanz and Qom (Fordow), and the fuel manufacturing plant, uranium conversion facility, and zirconium processing plant at Esfahan. They are all in the Israelis’ target folders.

Bushehr is not on the list. This is the Iranian’s “Potemkin” reactor. “See? Peaceful neutrons!” It is extremely difficult to extract weapons-grade plutonium from a light water reactor like Bushehr, and the Russians have been scrupulous about controlling the fuel. Bombing Bushehr would be a waste.



Their [The Iranians'] constant threats to close the Strait of Hormuz remind me of an individual claiming they’ve got a gun that nobody ever sees. Closing the strait is a defensive move, designed to share their pain with as many others as possible. And it will hurt Iran as well as its enemies. The fact that it backfired in 1987 and yet they’re using the same threat again shows how desperate they are.



Israelis need to rent a corridor through another country’s airspace for several days, possibly as long as a week. Thanks to Wikileaks, we know the Saudis would love to help the Israelis out, but what would their imams say? The Iraqis have no love for their long-time Persian enemies, but what would the man in the street think about planes with the Star of David flying overhead? The Turks and Israelis were on relatively good terms until a few years ago, but it’s been downhill since then.

None of Iran’s neighbors want Tehran to have nukes, but the leaderships of all three countries would pay a heavy political price domestically if they countenanced the Israeli transit.



Iran really, really wants the bomb. It has paid a heavy price for its nuclear weapons program, in political and economic terms, and in talent and treasure. Cue the irony buzzer. If Iran had put the same effort into rebuilding and modernizing its oil industry (still recovering from the Iran-Iraq war), they’d have a world-class economy and a lot more (oil-based) friends in the world. Lucky for us they decided to build the bomb first.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 28
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/3/2012 8:03:34 AM

For those of you actually interested in looking at the Iran/Israel incident critically (and I think there may only be like 3 or 4 people here who are interested in anything more than blind propaganda and hating one side or the other irrespective of practical issues), an interesting article: http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/things-to-think-about ..........
Putting up a link that is so heavily wrapped up with Israel and defending Israel's position ... not to mention sponsors several Jewish publications all over the world (newspapers, etc.) sure tells us which side you're pulling for ... eh?

As per the title of the thread ... US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran ... the US has no business getting involved in any kind of conflict between Israel and Iran. Iran has a right to have nuclear weapons especially since the Zionists have their fingers on the button.

We need to stay out of this. If Israel wants to pick a fight with someone, let them defend themselves this time. The US should no longer be fighting any of Israel's battles. We've already ruined our economy for their sake. Israel did not contribute one thin dime towards the Iraq War even though supposedly their "data" was used to support the idea that Iraq had WMD's. Israel still has not contributed one thin dime towards helping in the Afghanistan War yet the very reason we are there is because we so heavily support Israel.

Has Israel come to us at any time since encouraging us to illegally invade a sovereign nation and offered not to take the money we send them annually? No? Gee, I wonder if that's a good indication about how greedy they are?
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 29
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/3/2012 4:41:59 PM

Putting up a link that is so heavily wrapped up with Israel and defending Israel's position ... not to mention sponsors several Jewish publications all over the world (newspapers, etc.) sure tells us which side you're pulling for ... eh?

Uh.... what?

The link is about if Israel attacks Iran.

Thus, it is going to discuss Israel attacking Iran. And the practical considerations that go into it. Because that's what the article is about. It's kind of hilarious that you find this a little surprising and objectionable....

Furthermore, the article doesn't defend Israel at all. In fact, it doesn't even discuss anything qualitatively about the Israel-Iran relationship. I'm not even sure you read the right article based on your reaction.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 30
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/3/2012 8:02:26 PM



For those of you actually interested in looking at the Iran/Israel incident critically (and I think there may only be like 3 or 4 people here who are interested in anything more than blind propaganda and hating one side or the other irrespective of practical issues), an interesting article: http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/things-to-think-about ..........

Putting up a link that is so heavily wrapped up with Israel and defending Israel's position ... not to mention sponsors several Jewish publications all over the world (newspapers, etc.) sure tells us which side you're pulling for ... eh?

Uh.... what?
Didn't know about it? I always check out who owns or runs such information warehouses ... that tells you if it's believable or not. Just check out Faircount Media Group.


It's kind of hilarious that you find this a little surprising and objectionable....
I'm not even sure you read the right article based on your reaction.
No need to read the article based on where it came from.

I just have no trust in anything the Zionists are involved with. If others trust and cheer the Zionists on, that's their problem. They are devious, deceitful, conniving, ruthless, brutal, coldblooded, merciless, greedy killers.

Honestly, who in the world would trust anything they say or do? Iran has a right to be concerned and even more of a right to have nukes without having to worry about someone bombing them.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 31
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/3/2012 10:13:21 PM
Because of the limited success of Operation Gladio in Iran, a falseflag similar to the USS LIBERTY likely involving the USS ENTERPRISE will probably be the catalyst to induce SHOCK AND AWE on Iranian cities.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 32
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/4/2012 7:51:08 AM
"How do we know that they do not go beyond the brainstorming stage?
How do we know that the Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11 just fell in their laps?"

Gulf of Tonkin never happened. This has already been established decades ago. It was a manufactured crisis.

9/11 is different and I think it did fall in their laps. Had it been manufactured then there would have been strong "evidence" pointing towards Iraq. Instead the administration really had to stretch the facts to link it to Iraq.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 33
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/4/2012 8:04:11 AM
"They keep on pushing their views even though the U.S. government officials have clearly stated that the policy is to gather support to impose sanctions on Iran with the goal of bringing Iran to the table and negotiate a solution to the issue of development of nuclear power/weapons by Iran."

Actually Obama has said that nothing is off the table.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9iAqR7ftzw
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 34
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/4/2012 9:07:27 AM

... likely involving the USS ENTERPRISE will probably be the catalyst to induce SHOCK AND AWE on Iranian cities.
No matter what tool they use ... the Zionists are capable of doing anything it takes to get the US in a war with Iran.

Don't forget how the Mossad recently used UK passports for the hit in Dubai.

I wouldn't put it past the Zionists ... they will do anything to suck us into a war with Iran. We end up fighting it and paying for it all the while they continue to collect their annual stipend from us. It appears the theme of the day is ... "Suck the US into still another war on our behalf".
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 35
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/4/2012 9:40:15 PM

No need to read the article based on where it came from.

I just have no trust in anything the Zionists are involved with. If others trust and cheer the Zionists on, that's their problem. They are devious, deceitful, conniving, ruthless, brutal, coldblooded, merciless, greedy killers.

LOL

This explains a lot. If you refuse to read anything that treats issues about the military, military conflicts, and international politics about Israel without using the word "Zionist", then that may explain why you don't seem to have any understanding of these issues. Any balanced and informed treatment on these issues has to discuss Israel, because they work very closely with our military in many aspects. And those sources aren't going to use the word "Zionist", because that's a pretty dead giveaway to 99% or people knowledgeable about this topic that you are full of shit.

Go ahead, refuse to read anything from people who actually do this stuff for a living because they don't call Israelis names. Not like you can surprise us at this point.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 36
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/5/2012 6:06:11 PM
From now on we will refer to the zionists as "Teddy Bears" cold blooded, merciless killer "Teddy Bears".
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 37
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US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/7/2012 5:10:56 PM
October 2009 ... it appears Turkey has had the right idea for a long time now.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/turkey-pm-if-you-don-t-want-iran-to-have-nukes-give-yours-up-1.5055
Turkey PM: If you don't want Iran to have nukes, give yours up
Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said on Saturday that countries opposed to Iran's atomic program should give up their own nuclear weapons, and attacked as "arrogant" the sanctions imposed on Ankara's neighbor.

He also said he wanted the Middle East, and then the whole world, to rid itself of nuclear weapons.

During a trip to Iran this week, Erdogan said he backed Tehran's "right to peaceful nuclear energy" and called its approach in nuclear talks with Western powers "positive."

The trip added to Western concern that NATO's only Muslim member may be shifting its foreign-policy focus towards the Islamic world and turning its back on Western allies.

Iran says the sole aim of its nuclear program is to generate electricity, but Western powers suspect it of secretly planning to produce nuclear weapons and are trying to persuade it to stop enriching uranium.

"... those who criticize Iran's nuclear program continue to possess the same weapons," said Erdogan, according to an advance copy, carried by state-run Anatolian news agency, of a televised address he was scheduled to make at 8 p.m.

"I think that those who take this stance, who want these arrogant sanctions, need to first give these [weapons] up. We shared this opinion with our Iranian friends, our brothers."

United Nations and U.S. sanctions have already been imposed on Iran over its nuclear program, and if current talks fail to produce agreement, Western powers may push for a further round of sanctions on the Islamic Republic.

Israel is assumed to have the Middle East's only nuclear arsenal. Turkey, a European Union candidate, has been Israel's closest Muslim ally, but relations have soured since Israel's December-January offensive in the Gaza Strip.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad this week praised Erdogan for his "clear stance against" Israel.
Bravo for Erdogan for taking such a stance!!!

Erdogan also said Turkey wants the Middle East, and in time the world, to be free of nuclear weapons. "We want to live in a region completely purged of nuclear weapons. We want to live in a world in which nuclear weapons no longer exist," he said.

Erdogan has tried to expand Turkey's influence in the Middle East and make it a regional power since his party, which traces it roots to an Islamist movement, took office in 2002.

Erdogan also reiterated previous remarks that Turkey and Iran have set themselves a target of more than tripling annual bilateral trade by 2011 to $30 billion.


My whole point all along has been that those of us who have Nukes have no right to dictate to any other nation about their development of Nukes. Given that Israel is under the impression that our dear President has now fully sided with them (which is what he must do in an election year) ... I think we need to renew Erdogan's notion.
 part deux
Joined: 11/11/2008
Msg: 38
US Considered Ways to Provoke War with Iran
Posted: 3/10/2012 11:17:55 AM
So. lets get this straight,on the one hand, you hate Obama for upholding the will of the house of representatives ( signing the Aumf, and the tresspass bill), yet now you hate Obama for not upholding the will of congress?
You can't see the benefit diplomatically of consulting with the Arab League or NATO, before entering Libya? Do you not realize how damaged America's reputation is worldwide?
Obama just can't win with you, and since you grasp at anything, I have to wonder what your real problem is with him, and I doubt it is based on anything intellectual.
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