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 julianx
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 3
Gun toting teachersPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

do you think this will work as a preventative measure or just compound an already out of control problem.


Seeing as this is America that we're discussing, a couple of terms spring to mind, like...'pre-emptive strike' and 'friendly fire'.

I think teachers carrying guns may help in the very short term (though I doubt it) but in the long term I'm sure it will compound the problem.

Americas gun problem is huge and is a result of many factors I see two of the main ones as being;

The use of, and possibly misinterpretation of, an archaic part of their constitution namely the 2nd amendment;
'A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

I’m pretty sure the intention of this is to defend the country against an invading or occupying army and not…every one can own and use a gun cos their cocaine deal might go sour.

The other problem is the ‘Gun Lobby’. From what I’ve read this organization has huge amounts of power, money and political clout and use it to quash even the mildest of restrictions on guns and access to them. Some states don’t even have a cooling off period.

And yeah I know the argument ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people’ but people with guns can kill a whole lot more people, a lot more easily. There needs to be much tighter restrictions on who can have a gun and how quickly and easily they can get one.

Personally I found footage on ‘bowling for columbine’ of Charlton Heston holding a gun above his head as some sort of symbol of freedom to be worshiped rather chilling. Americas love affair with guns is way out of control and needs to be reined in.
 curiousaboutu77
Joined: 12/28/2007
Msg: 5
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/16/2008 1:43:48 AM
I don't think the question is whether teachers should carry a gun or not. I think the question should be how do we stop kids from slipping through the cracks and all these people being killed or hurt directly or indirectly. Before they worry about the guns maybe they should look at there welfare system so that the problem is addressed well before guns come into the equation.
 AbbieF
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 6
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/17/2008 5:41:40 AM
I am pro guns - was brought up with them and believe that if just one other person in Port Arthur had and used a gun a lot of innocent people would not have died.

I now cannot own a gun, my children are missing out on part of what I enjoyed in my childhood and it worries me more that my son is unduly fascinated with guns after playing games like halo where people are shot and return to life. I would love to be able to take him to a range and show him exactly what guns do and why we should treat them with utter respect.

I live in a home that at one stage had 16 assorted rifles / guns in the broom closset. We were taught how and when to use them and that firearms are not toys to bandy about the neighbourhood.............
 huixin
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 7
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/18/2008 12:29:51 AM
I got the news that the teachers may carry guns ,but I am confuesd why the sudents carry guns .They are surferred by their teachers?
 pandabollocks3000
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 10
Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/18/2008 4:41:58 AM
I find it amusing, in a black comedic kind of way, that some Americans take their constitutional "right to bear arms" as some kind of insurance policy against some rogue President declaring marshal law. Can we really imagine the Gun Owners of America text messaging it's members and persuading them to overrun and sieze their local police station and military base? Maybe the Bloods and the Crips will join forces and "liberate" some maximum security prisons as well. That's a hell of a lot of shotguns and Saturday Night Specials.
 julianx
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 11
Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/18/2008 6:12:36 AM
quote]Julian, I can kill bucket loads more people in my car and drive away than I can with 10 rounds in a semi auto pistol if I was inclined to hurt people.

Yeah well I could kill even more people if I had a fully automatic rifle and a 150 rounds of ammunition....Beat that

But seriously the difference here is that the incident you have described is that it was a fairly isolated one and I’m sure that even in America the number of deliberate hit and runs is much less than the number of deliberate killings by guns.

I agree with you, guns don’t kill people, people do. The point I was making is that because guns are essentially designed to kill, there needs to be stronger controls on who can own and use a gun, as in background checks, and on how easy it is to obtain a gun. People also need to be trained on how to use a gun and how to respect it before they can obtain a licence, as is required for a car licence.

As for knives and sticks; England is a country that has strict gun control laws and is nice and violent like the US and even though it has a high number of injuries from assaults, it has low number of deaths from assault. Sure being assaulted is never good but death is a lot more final.

I think as Ismene1 said the culture of guns in America is the real problem. Effecting changes to culture is an incredibly difficult thing to do; I think stricter gun laws would be a good start, maybe a bit of education about what that 2nd amendment really means might be good too.

Personally I don’t like guns, I wouldn’t have on in the house, but I’m not anti-guns, I’m sure target shooting is a fantastic and exhilarating sport. For the military and law enforcement they are a necessary evil, but they really should only be allowed in the hands of competent people.

Perhaps the phrase should be ‘guns don’t kill people, stupid people kill people’
 AbbieF
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 14
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/18/2008 9:19:52 PM
Yes its about the WRONG people with guns

Why cant I defend myself with a gun when some thug who has obatined one illegally is pointing one at me????
I heard somewhere in or near Switzerland every home has a gun and every one has to learn to use it and possible do some form of service - aparently this country has the lowest gun crime / accident rate in the world.


And how many guns are burried in polly pipe canisters in Australia?? You couldnt buy the stuff when gun laws were introduced..................................................
 AbbieF
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 19
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/19/2008 5:13:06 AM

If a woman was left alone in the cabin on the praire or in the woods while the man was out hunting, sometimes for days a a time, the women had to be prepared to shoot and kill either an attacking Indian or an outlaw who might want to rape, kill and rob her.


And our options today???????? Call the police if you can and hope for the best............

There are a lot of women living alone or with chldren and I would do anything to protect my children. I grew up with a Dad who travelled for work - he taught me one thing about our gun and anyone who broke into the house - You only need 2 shots, one in the head and a warning shot, in that order...........................................................
 AbbieF
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 24
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/20/2008 3:31:45 AM
I'll go back to Port Arthur...........................................
If only one other person had a gun and used it after the first person was shot the only ther fatality would have been the perpetrator of a heinous crime. I guess that is how the Texans are thinking.
One person / shot could prevent a terrible masacre.
 AbbieF
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 25
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/20/2008 3:48:35 AM
If that teacher was a professional trained to use the weapon appropriately - probably would. I grew up with guns...................................... Wouldnt have a problem carrying one myself - knee jerk reaction wont allow that in Australia now. I would quite happily also live with a gun in the house - teaching my children to respect it and how to use it safely - for the right reasons.

I thnk the proposal was that there would be 'certain' teachers in each school trained in the use of firearms and how to disipate situations where there could be a masacre.
 AbbieF
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 31
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/21/2008 4:39:22 AM
Agreed Dark Stanley and Brisguy....................


but ur asking for a rambo like response and most ppls reaction is to hide.

I'm nothing like Rambo and I would have shot him - not expecting any one else to do anything I wouldnt. There were suggestions that Port Arthur was conspired to allow the new gun laws, who knows but the crims still have weapons.

If it wasnt a gun he would have used something else - car, bomb, plane, bus, etc etc etc

Yes the cotton wool world sounds wonderful unfortunately we are doing that to our kids. We used to have to be responsible for our own safety now we can sue if there is not a warning sign.
 AbbieF
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 33
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/22/2008 6:13:35 AM

human life is not something to be gambled with


And yet we do it every day...................................................................................
 missmilly1970
Joined: 11/4/2007
Msg: 34
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 8/26/2008 5:22:06 AM
Texas is the gun capital of the USA. Eight guns for each man, woman & child. (NRA rules!)

Sickos!!! "Hi, my newborn has three guns!." Imagine how many that works out per "responsible" adult????

Bowling for Columbine................. may be propaganda???? I don't think so.

Why do we have less gun deaths in Australia??????? Every nut job is not allowed a gun!!!!! (Legally at least!)

I'm soooo proud to be Australian!
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 38
Gun toting teachers
Posted: 12/19/2012 8:40:52 PM
how many deaths would that nut in port arthur have killed with a fence paling or baseball bat..or a car ?


It's all over the news about the nutter with a gun who shot twenty or so kids. Twenty or so dead.
On that same day in China... a nutter with a knife stabbed twenty kids. Nobody died.

In 1996 the Australian government bought back some 700,000 weapons.
Mass shootings in Australia during the 18 years before the gun buy-back = 13
Mass shootings in Australia during the 16 years since the gun buy-back = 0

(All stats from a BBC report.)
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 39
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 12/20/2012 12:29:12 AM
Guns are bad, mkay...
 RorschachTM
Joined: 1/28/2012
Msg: 42
Gun toting teachers
Posted: 12/21/2012 3:21:45 PM
interesting manipulation of statistics... and some interesting points...

Most people when they manipulate statistics seem to forget about switzerland case as mentioned by a previous poster and of Canada. Canada, Austria and Germany have roughly twice the number of guns per capita compared to those of Austraya (30 vs 15) but you hardly hear of gun massacres in those countries. Which leads me to suspect its more than just number of guns per capita.

Abbie mentioned the texan mentality, if good citizen had a gun, massacre would have been stopped before it took place to paraphrase the gist. Similar arguments have been made for concealed carry licences in USA. However question is... how skilled is the armed good samaritan? Have they been in a serious under pressure situation before? Sure, alot of people can say "Oh, in that situation I will do this and that..." but I am pretty sure that its different thing altogether to be in the middle of gunfight. If our hero-wannabe not skilled enough, he/she would become just another victim in the bodycount and quite possibly serve to piss off the massacre committing asswipe even more.

Same arguements go for gun toting teachers... sure, they can be helpful in a school massacre situation, but that's still a possibility. We can also look at it as another gun in a setting that it clearly does not belong, that could hurt others by being accidentally discharged or stolen for illegal purposes. There is another possibility for you.
 Jewel_Of_Denial
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 43
Gun toting teachers
Posted: 12/22/2012 10:34:15 AM
this is what the world is coming to

http://phys.org/news/2012-12-click-downloadable-guns.html

scary or what?
 tinapenny
Joined: 8/30/2010
Msg: 46
Gun toting teachers
Posted: 12/22/2012 5:12:10 PM

....downloadable-guns.html
That is a worry! The only positive note is that the gun broke down after 6 shots so if it was to be used by a nutter he would be limited and he'd have to stop to rebuild his weapon. And also they dont appear to have managed to build a working barrel yet.

The thing that struck me as really bizarre is the line the maker is pushing about how they plan to 'protect the constitutional right to bear arms'. Its like a mental blip. I realise that the second amendment as been tested in court and does apply to individuals now, not just for militias or whatever, but it was obviously written in a time when the intention was different. Its not clear to me why American people are so attached to their guns. Surely most people wouldn't ever fire them and carrying an extra heavy item in your handbag forever doesn't seem like something you'd be busting to do. If its to be handy in the house to provide protection (which is what they say its for) it would have to be kept safe from your kids getting hold of it which is one more thing to worry about as a parent.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 48
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Gun toting teachers
Posted: 3/8/2013 4:06:56 PM
Now South Dakota is allowing teachers to carry. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21722377

What are the chances of a teacher flipping out or kids getting a hold of a gun, compared to it being used in defence against an external assailant? It doesn't make much sense to me... unless it's really an exercise in scaremongering and vote grabbing. Then it makes a depressing kind of sense.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 49
Gun toting teachers
Posted: 3/8/2013 6:06:29 PM
He's black, He's apparently muslim and a foreigner, whose real name is supposedly barry and he's attempting to make america a better country, in a more significant way than anyone before him.

i rekon america needs more black immigrants...cause if thats the legacy the next black president has to live up to..

america wont be just shooting the shit when it talks about how great it is..


there's a pun in there somewhere as well..
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