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 phule
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 7
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Emotiona/Physicial closenessPage 1 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Re: WarmBrandie

Has it ever occurred to you that you are letting in all the wrong men, and this is why you are getting hurt every time? That maybe you have to start letting in the men who satisfy the emotional aspects first and let the physical develop, rather than going for what gets the juices flowing and letting the emotional develop second?

If you want a best friend who turns you on, why not get involved with a best friend and teach him how to turn you on? Why does he have to be a mind reader and already know what it is you like in the bedroom first? If you are with someone and it lasts 50 years, if and when the sexual attraction fades, wouldn't you prefer to be with someone that you like and enjoy spending time with? Does it even occur to you that you don't like the guys that you love? Why is it so important to have Everything all up front... the physical AND the emotional? Do you know what that is? That is Instant Gratification. That is selfishness. That is laziness. You don't want to work to make the perfect relationship. You want it all from the beginning. You might say you don't. But if you want it all (or as close as you can get to it all) from the start, then you are not expecting to build the best relationship. You are expecting to *find* the best relationship.

Why do women fear getting involved with a best friend? Why do they say that they are afraid of ruining the friendship? Does this mean that they can never be friends with the men they get involved with, because they always ruin the friendships? Doesn't that make sense? If they believe they would ruin the friendship by getting involved with a friend.. what hope do they have of ever being friends with their mate?
 JustMary65
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 8
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/25/2008 5:46:05 PM
OP-

I use to believe that I truly needed to love someone deeply before I would be close to them intimately. Perhaps part of me still thinks that way, but over time, and being burned by love a time or two I suspect I've become a bit jaded and cynical when it comes to love and intimacy. I trusted a person when they said 'I love you', but over time I learned that words mean very little if there are no actions behind them that reflect and show me that I'm loved. I grew up believing in the fairytale-find the right guy, fall in love and live happily after.

I've heard it said many times in conversation when discussing the differences in men and women that when a woman is in love than she'll have sex with a man, and when a man has sex with a woman it's to show his love for her. Basically what I guess that equates to is that most women are emotionally driven when it comes to intimacy and then men are physically driven when being intimate. I'm very guarded with my emotions for a variety of reasons, and though being in love makes any intimate act certainly far more special-there have been occassions, for me at least, that I didn't have to be in love with a person to be intimate.

There are risks with being emotionally or physically close to a person-because it's then you are most vulnerable and exposed. If a person has been hurt-emotionally-the pain is never seen but the hurt can linger. Some people who can share physical closeness, without the emotional connection, generally want the human contact without having to put their feelings on the line. I know-been there and I've done that. I've only been in love three times in my life and the end of those three relationships left an imprint on my heart that I've yet to erase.

The world is ever changing-so to0, are the dynamics of relationships-how people view them-enter into them-sustain them or end them. I can't speak for everyone, but I know in my case, a wounded heart has made it hard for me to become emotionally close to anyone romantically, but perhaps one day I'll find that someone special who'll melt the wall of ice I've surrounded my heart. Until then-I seek companionship on my terms and either the person I'm with will understand or not.

Sex is the easy part-opening up one's heart is not. JMHO
 Calmwaters/Wildcurrent
Joined: 9/18/2005
Msg: 11
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/25/2008 6:16:15 PM
Um.... I don't know what guys you know, but I don't see men "wanting the emotional closeness..." or at least I haven't seen any significant shifts in that direction. There always has been and always will be a percentage of men who have found a balance in the emotional need/physical need thing... perhaps you're just bumping into more of them? Most guys just want to get all the physical they can with minimal emotional connection.
 phule
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 12
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Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/25/2008 6:31:22 PM
Re: warmbrandie

Physical attraction does NOT have to be there first. Dedication and commitment has to be there first. There are countless marriages that were arranged that worked out beautifully. There are countless marriages that involved friends first that lasted for decades and still work. I don't understand why you don't see that.

If you insist that physical attraction has to be there first, that marks you as one for Instant Gratification. Physical attraction can be developed, just as it can fade over time. It is only surface deep. It is only superficial. It *will* not last, because our bodies will not last. Our minds are the last to go. There is no physical attraction to the mind. That is emotional attraction. That is intellectual attraction. If, as you say, anyone can be trained to please you physically, then anyone can be trained to be physically attractive. This is why I say you need the instant Gratification. You want up front, what should instead be taking the time to develop.

Here you are appreciating something in me, that you do not see in most men. This is the potential beginning of a great friendship. You would pass it up, and the potential for a great relationship, because that spark of physical gratification is not there. Can you not see how you are repeating the same mistakes you have been making over and over, that have resulted in your failed relationships?
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 13
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/25/2008 6:52:29 PM
When I see the other person only as a man, my first feeling is thinking he just wants sex. Just the physical.

When I see the other person as a friend, I feel they JUST want to be friends. Just the emotional.

When I look at him as a HUMAN BEING first and foremost, I can see him having hopes and dreams, basic needs and fullfilment just that same as I do. The whole kit and kaboodle
 professora
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 15
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Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/25/2008 7:09:01 PM
FRom an old lady:
You may be correct ( i have heard this too) but keep an upbeat attitude. You look fabulous and somone special will know how lucky they are to find you.
 phule
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 16
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Posted: 8/25/2008 7:09:12 PM
Re: warmbrandie

Dedication and commitment are there first with friends. True friends are dedicated and committed to you. As has been hinted at here, you are attracted to your friends. However, what was glossed over is exactly what you are attracted to. You may indeed be walking down the road and see someone... that is petting the head of a horse in a pasture. You might say to yourself "I like that. Kind to animals. I like horses too." You stop, strike up a conversation, and become fast friends. You find that this friendship becomes stronger, and the commitment and dedication are there, since it becomes a real friendship. Now... with that kind of strong foundation, a fantastic relationship is possible. All from just walking down the road.

No. I would never date someone I was not attracted to. However, I would easily date someone I was not *physically* attracted to. I would date someone I was emotionally attracted to, or intellectually attracted to. I would prefer to be involved with someone who can challenge my mind, rather than someone who can challenge my crotch... simply because if it works out, we are going to spend far more time engaging intellectually, than physically. That is just common sense.

I would prefer to begin a relationship without the physical. Simply because if we are not mentally compatible, no amount of lust is going to make the relationship work.

What is attraction for? Well, first and foremost, sex is for producing kids. We humans like to attach a lot more to it... but would you want your husband to leave you just because after 10 years of bliss, there was a horrible car accident and you could not have sex anymore? Do you place that much self worth on sex, that you feel you would not be a worthwhile human being without it?

Think about it this way. Maybe you don't believe that you could respond physically to someone you are not attracted to, but men prove every day, every hour that we cannot help respond physically, regardless of attraction. Just the act of engaging in sexual congress or thought makes us respond. So yes, I can respond physically to someone I'm not necessarily attracted to, because that is just biology. Think about masturbation. How are you able to respond when there isn't even someone there? Because it is all in your head. You can become physically attracted to someone. We all can.

And you are correct. You can stop doing your hair and nails and makeup... else you must be paranoid that if your mate sees you without these things, he won't want you anymore. All those things are just decorations. They are just surface. They are just superficial.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 17
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/25/2008 7:25:17 PM
And you are correct. You can stop doing your hair and nails and makeup... else you must be paranoid that if your mate sees you without these things, he won't want you anymore. All those things are just decorations. They are just surface. They are just superficial.


I think you are incorrect - many men say these things don't matter, but a well kept woman will turn his head much more often than a woman that looks like she just doesn't care. What you think is the natural look is often not as natural as you think. Just because men don't pay attention to the details of a woman (unless they're really outlandish) doesn't mean he doesn't notice when they are missing. They did a study with curly hair and straight hair - they picked one over the other, but didn't even realize it was the same woman in both pictures. I am not fooled for one minute into thinking that I can just roll out of bed in the morning and present myself to the world like that. I know that men treat me as if I'm invisible if I run to the store "all natural." Great if I never want to be looked at again. Men have dumped women for a lot less reasons - you stop doing your hair and makeup, the next thing he's telling everyone "she let herself go".
 phule
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 18
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Posted: 8/25/2008 7:54:12 PM
I refuse to believe that the women in this thread would rather be with the guy who either doesn't want to be with you unless you look perfect, or will nag you because you let yourself go... as opposed to wanting to be with a guy who loves you for who you are, regardless of makeup or nails or hair.

I refuse to believe that women are OK with the fact that if there is a disfiguring accident after years of being with someone, that the relationship is over.

I refuse to believe that all the marriages that work and last for decades because people understand that sex and physical attraction is secondary to emotional and intellectual attraction mean nothing. That all the divorces that occur because when the attraction fades and there is nothing left now mean nothing. That all the women who get involved with men who are all about the physical and know the right things to say, and then move on and cheat.. all that means nothing.

There are countless threads in this forum about women who get involved with player after player after player, and refuse to see they are getting involved with the same kind of man... they blame men, and not themselves where the problem really is. Yes. If you seek the physical first, you can expect that at the first sign of trouble, the man will bolt. I say this because people prove it to be true time and time again. You cannot equate sex with love.

How can two people be truly intimate and really enjoy each other physically, if they do not know each other well? How can the trust develop that is necessary for a wonderful physical relationship, if that wonderful physical relationship is expected to be there first, before the trust develops?
 phule
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 20
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Posted: 8/26/2008 5:50:02 AM

Ah, I get it phule, you're a "nice guy", warning the women about the "bad boys?"

Wow. Turn it into a personal attack, why don't you. Nice touch with the quotes, making it clear that the words you say, are the opposite that you mean. Well, you are showing your true colors.



The about players is just what some women say, when a sexual relationship ends. It's about "feelings", not reality. There are relatively few real players, men who are essentially heartless sociopaths.

I'll make sure to tell the guys I know personally that keep notching their bedposts that they don't exist, just because you said so. Man, what a blind idiot you are.



Interestingly enough, though, women like sex too, phule.

Never said they didn't. I said Physical attraction can be manufactured. It is proven on television. It is proven with plastic surgery. It is proven when people fantasize. Did you know men can be raped? It is possible, however infrequent, for a man to get aroused against his will. This is manufactured physical attraction. Your mind reels, and you would deny this truth, but don't be a moron and look it up. In fact, since you won't, here's a link.
http://www.aest.org.uk/survivors/male/myths_about_male_rape.htm
Manufactured physical attraction. Juices flowing against one's will. It's extreme, but it is proof. So if the physical can be recreated easily under a wide variety of circumstances, then I guess we are back to what I said.. which is it is all in the head. And if it is all in the head, people can learn to be physically attracted to each other. Why bother to be physical with someone you don't like as a person though... and putting the physical first, far too often clouds the emotional... until the physical starts to lose some heat. Then people find themselves asking "Why am I with this person?" This happens all the time, every day. Wake up.



I'm sure that the women appreciate all the "pointers", though, warning them about the "bad boys".

Can you quote me please where I'm warning women about the bad boys, rather than just making this crap up to try to make your self look better at my expense? Otherwise, it's pretty obvious you think that you are one of those "bad boys" you accuse me of talking about. Just goes to show how little you actually understood any of what I said.

I notice that you just dismiss what I actually said, without really addressing it. So you are the kind of guy who would nag a woman because she let herself go. I get that. You are the kind of guy who would leave a woman when her looks faded/were taken away by accident or incident. I get that. You want to live in a world where the physical is more important? You go right ahead. You live in this world of disposable marriages where people refuse to work for their relationship, and help it continue to thrive.

I'd prefer a world where people work to make things last. I'll stick with those people whose marriages haven't failed, because they know what I'm saying is true. You don't want to believe it, because you are the kind of guy who either leaves a string of women behind him, or WANTS to leave a string of women behind him.

That's it, isn't it... you envy those guys who can get girl after girl... that's why you say they don't exist. Downplay, distract and misdirect.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 28
Emotional/Physicial Closeness
Posted: 8/27/2008 1:00:51 PM
I agree with Warmbrandie - tho some of my friends are still quite emotional, they are one bitten twice shy, and will guard themselves longer before allowing themselves to become attached, or decide that men had it right the whole time and start seeking pure gratification (you have to admit, men looked like they were having a ball with this to the point where you wondered if the settling down thing was overrated). It comes with age. At the same time, men get older, start to mellow out and want that intense connection and now women are either skepitcal about it, or would rather forego the drama and just enjoy life.

Personally I have always had an "emotional switch" so to speak, where I didn't have to be in an all encompassing serious relationship to enjoy sex (tho it's nice when you have the two). I also agree more with parallel relationships than traditional relationships; you have your life and I have mine, and a couple times we get together and overlap em and then go back to what we were doing. However, when not involved, I can easily get into an arrangement with someone I know and trust to take the edge off, and like Warmbrandie - I won't get attached if the deal is not to get attached. If I feel I am I can just disengage and move on.

Then again I don't think mindlessly following your hormones or your heart is a very safe practice.

I also have the mindset that men "put out" and I take....always been that way; the thought that men are after it and women hand it over always seemed silly to me.


I don't necessarily think it's true. I think men have evolved a bit, but I haven't taken a survey. But the women I've met, by and large, seem to be more into the physical stuff than I ever expected.

I've been known to have the body of a woman and the mind of a man - so to the above quote, all I can say is "dude...take the sex and don't complain...don't ruin it for everyone else."

*shrug*
 DianneB
Joined: 4/24/2008
Msg: 31
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/27/2008 1:22:01 PM
Ok, where are these guys that want an emotional closeness before a physical relationship? And how do you tell which ones they are? I am certainly not meeting them!

For myself, friendship has to come before anything else - having things in common, being able to communicate and share. With the friendship comes an emotional bond - we're friends, we can count on each other. If that exists and there is a physical attraction, the rest will come in time. I am one of those who has been betrayed often enough that I am not going to trust very easily - it will take time and nothing physical is going to happen until there is trust. Many times my first date with someone has become my LAST date when they start pushing the physical!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 41
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:36:55 AM
I think the only thing that's really changing here is that some women are now allowed to enjoy sex for what it is...without being worried what society's gonna think, and some men are allowed to say "I want more than just sex" without having to answer to society about what they feel HIS role should be. It's not that times have changed people, it's that people who were always a certain way can now act on it.

There are some insinuations in this thread by different posters that most men are cold and sex driven and can escape attachment, and most women are so emotionally wired they can't have sex without evenutal attachment and heartache.

I don't agree with that - I think that some men are emotional and prone to attachment and some women are ok with sex without becoming attached, and only in recent years were both allowed to be public about it. Another way to say it is that some PEOPLE are only capable of sex within the comfort of a serious relationship and others are able to have sex outside a "traditional" view of a relationship.

As Carrie states above, the trick nowadays is to find someone regardless of where on the spectrum you are that lives the way you do and go with that.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 42
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/28/2008 8:06:33 AM
For myself, I have run into men that just don`t tell me how they feel. I am certainly not going to make the first move and show my affections, not when many men will run with the slightest inference of feelings from their partner. So for me, when I have been with a man for a long time in a monogamous relationship, and he makes no move to tell me where he is at or that he has feelings for me, I make the assumption that it is just a "thing" that he is comfortable with and is working for him. I would never assume that he actually had feelings. The only way I would know is if he tells me where he is at, and I am not going to force him to talk about his emotions. Since most guys don`t enjoy expressing verbally their feelings, they go unsaid , I get frustrated, feel unloved and leave. I`m afraid to ask. It`s considered bad. I`m afraid to tell my feelings. That`s considered bad too . I`m afraid to feel.So I say nothing and usually watch things deteriorate and collapse, because everyone is so afraid of looking weak, or needy or vulnerable. Women have been trained to not say anything about feelings because guys don`t like it. So we don`t do it, you don`t do it, and no one does it and the relationship finally is cold and falls apart.

This is exactly what I have experienced over and over with men.


The other issue is that we are innundated with men saying that they don`t want to be in a monogamous situation, they want to be free. They don`t want to be husbands, they don`t want to be fathers, that marriage is Hell, that they want no part of a LTR, they don`t want to pay for a date, they don`t want to provide for children, they don`t want responsibility. They want to live their lives on their own terms and not have it run or effected by a woman. They want to make their own way and their own empire. We hear this constantly. So we assume that this is what most of the men want. So why even bother trying to change their minds. So we look at sex as sex. That`s what most men are telling us that they want. They don`t want all of the complication and mess of emotions. We are giving them what they tell us they want. From my personal experiences, about the only thing that you can actually count on a man for is sex. Why set yourself up for a disappointment?

You can't necessarily count on them for sex either. They boast about their libido or sexual prowess, and when you call their bluff and say "ok I'm game - let's see what you got big fella"(ok not in those words exactly) they suddenly don't call, become minute men, or become very busy with work and obligations.
They also want to be king of their castle - have their own place, but call late at night and mention they get lonely.

So why set ourselves up for disappointment? I guess it's called hope. Because we are always hoping that the next will be different, will be real, will behave like a human being.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 43
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/28/2008 8:58:52 AM

You can't necessarily count on them for sex either. They boast about their libido or sexual prowess, and when you call their bluff and say "ok I'm game - let's see what you got big fella"(ok not in those words exactly) they suddenly don't call, become minute men, or become very busy with work and obligations.

LMAO...too funny. I know lots of men who offer sex, and if you said to them ok lets go now they wouldnt be able to perform. Silliness.

They also want to be king of their castle - have their own place, but call late at night and mention they get lonely.

Now see this I dont get. I live alone, and I love it - if you don't want to, then why make a federal case out of it?
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 45
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/28/2008 11:49:49 AM

What does a modern self reliant woman today really need from a man other than SEXual pleasure?

Women have found a replacement for men in this area too. But the whole point is, that is not enough - there is no human connection. My point is sex with absolutely no emotional connection might just as well be masturbation. When you are really attracted to someone's personality, spirit, and physical body, they can simply touch you and feel that electricity travel throughout your body, when you don't value a person and there is no mental attraction, they could touch you all day long and you would feel nothing. Same principle as not being able to tickle ourselves.
When it comes to well rounded relationships I believe women want it all, and men want as little as possible.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 47
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Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/28/2008 12:42:14 PM
Guys have always wanted the physical, and it has become more socially acceptable in the past few decades for women to emphasize physicality in relationships as well. I doubt that many people truly value "emotionality" itself. Raw attraction and infatuation are what engender positive emotions, along with compatibility and friendship on a smaller scale. Compatibility and friendship are important, no doubt; but, chemistry and physical pleasure are far more important. Physical touch does more for neurotransmitter activity in the brain than anything else.

In addition to that, neither gender is any longer dependent on the other for financial/material survival and lifestyle maintenance. Because of that, chemistry and physical closeness are now emphasized almost exclusively as motivation for maintaining relationships. It's likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future.
 JustMary65
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 53
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:15:49 PM
Perhaps the bigger reason there is such a huge gap between emotional and physical closeness is because we live in a world where immediate gratification is expected. Maybe it's the fact that gap in gender 'roles' is closing and the motivation to create emotional bonds has lessened but the need for physical pleasure remains the same. There are a variety of reasons why people behave as they do. Ultimately it falls on the individual to decide if they want both-one or the other or neither. Yes, some men can't fathom that some women want sex but nothing more, and there are women who can't understand why some men can have sex with no emotional connection whatsoever.

No one person is wired the same so the rational will vary as much as the replies on this thread. I do not think or feel the same way about love and sex now as I did twenty yrs ago. Just because I choose not to have close emotional bonds to a particular man doesn't mean I am unable to do so-I simply choose not to. Wanting companionship ( or a physical relationship only) is again, my personal choice, but just because I don't need to 'fall in love' doesn't mean I do not value the person I spend time with or care about them on some level. It becomes a question of what you want vs what you need at any given moment in your life. I want money so I need a job-but if I was wealthy I might not need money but I might still want a job-get it?? Simplistic I suppose-but to me it rings true.
 JustMary65
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 56
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:52:41 PM

Again I am not speaking directly to you but to the existentialness of the comment, which I think many share in. Thoughts?
Ulysses.


Yep, I don't need a man to complete me-but he damn well better compliment my life as much as I compliment his. As I mentioned in an earlier post I am a tad jaded, if not a bit cynical in my views of relationships. None the less, I still believe in love and the value people have in my life. What I did learn, was that for some, not all men, love is conditional on what suits them-but in a relationship it should be based on a partnership with balance on both sides-not just one. I have far more choices as a woman now than I did when I was younger. Perhaps the choices I make might seem harsh or unrealistic to some people, but it works for me. Again, for me, it's a comfort level I need to have with the person I'm with. I make sure I'm honest in my intentions and any expectations I have where he and I are concerned.

I want a man that loves all of me or not at all-and considering the fact I'm a pretty independant woman that tends to scare away a lot of men. I don't need a night in shining armor to rescue me, because usually it winds up that I rescue them. Just because I might want a man in my life for the long haul doesn't necessarily mean I need one. When I find the right person who compliments my life I have no doubt he'll be someone I can share both emotional and physical closeness with, but until that time I live my life with me as the priority first and foremost.
 JustMary65
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 62
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/29/2008 6:59:06 AM
Ulysses-

Love and sex is viewed very differently for every man and woman. Physical and emotional intimacy is also defined differently as well. I do agree that spending quality time with a person sometimes is far more intimate and worthwhile than being naked in the sheets, because physical intimacy is more than having sex-it's the things you do with your mate or SO that is important to YOU the individual. I use to relish all forms of physical intimacy from simply holding hands, to a soft kiss, and a warm embrace. KNOWING you are loved is shown by actions-not always in words. That again varies from person to person.

Some people have issues with emotional intimacy and physical intimacy because the very nature of it is personal and can leave a person vulnerable to some form of heart ache if what they give isn't recieved. It comes down to taking risks regardless of the outcome, but that too depends on an individuals experiences being in any type of relationship. I'm not disagreeing with the basic concept of your thread, but can you honestly be shocked at how some women view emotional or physical connections with men given the fact that some men are very selfish with emotional intimacy but have no issues with the physical?

It comes down to finding a person who FITS into your life as well as you FIT into theirs, but understanding that there are no guarantees of happy endings. I enjoy the company of my manfriend-do we have a relationship-you betcha, but because it doesn't fall into an area where you might have a comfort level, it does for me. The beauty is we are all different and those differences are what either attract us to a person or not. I think it's important to know yourself well enough to know what you want and find those qualities in another person. Yes, you'll meet a lot of people who do not FIT the way you want them too but that doesn't mean you can't find someone who will.

I have a relationship that encompasses both emotional and physical closeness, but I do not have to say to the manfriend 'I love you' to feel it or express it. He shows me through his actions that I matter to him. I define my own success in our relationship not in terms of words but how well we can relate to each other. Even when the time we get to spend together has lessened due to obligations with either of us I know when we do get to see each other it's worthwhile and memorable. He knows that his friendship is equally if not more important to me than being my lover. I can tell him anything-and often do-so while the dynamics of our relationship might not seem the 'norm' we still do share intimacy that some folks never do.

Yes, I'm guarded with my heart and the manfriend clearly knows it and understands why, but that hasn't diminished what we share because we do CARE about one another. I use to need to hear 'I love you'-now I want to be shown....big difference. I suspect some people may feel as I do-maybe not. Yes, it would be nice to give and recieve love unconditionally, and know that the one you are with is with you for all the right reasons, but the reality is not everyone can unconditionally love the one their with-if that were the case no one would suffer a broken heart or home.
 phule
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 63
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Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/29/2008 9:08:37 AM

I am so confused. I refuse to say I don't like post 26...... I think I like it

Well, don't worry. Spend some more time in the thread, and you'll have your mind changed by those who would twist what I'm saying until they insist it is all about disfigured and malformed people looking to get supermodels for dates.

People see what they want to see.

The biggest point I'm trying to make, is really to those people who have a string of failed relationships behind them AND seek physical attraction first and foremost. I noticed that these same people disregard and deny how physical attraction can and is manufactured daily. That is like denying the Sun in the sky. I could give countless and specific examples of this, and my words would be like a fan in a hurricane. The fact is that they don't WANT to see what is going wrong.

Even WarmBrandie, who remembers her grandparents, believes that she can attribute their success to physical attraction... even when she points out the differences in her own dating techniques with what they had when they started. Well, she was relatively sure they did NOT have premarital sex. So how did they know they would be compatible in that department? How did they last as long as they did, without knowing all that physical stuff up front?

It's clear to me... in the battle between Physical and Emotional, Physical wins. In the battle between lasting relationships and failed relationships... failure wins.

One definition of Insanity is to repeat the same actions and expect different results. It's pretty insane to keep putting physical first, and expect it to work when it keeps on failing for you. Especially when you want emotional as the end result. Get your friggin head out of your butts. If you want emotional security, why not START with building that. Why is that so hard to understand? You don't build the foundation AFTER you've painted the house.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 64
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/29/2008 9:17:34 AM
^^^I don't see it as a choice between physical AND emotional or intellectual. I see it as preliminary, not something to base a life on. It can all be in one person, it's rarer, but it's possible to find.

For me the physical has to be there, but has to be followed by something more substantial in order for it to become anything. They fade, but that's ok if they were once there for both parties and of course aging gracefully as opposed to just deciding you don't care how you look anymore.

Those who base everything on looks ONLY are gonna have problems, sure - the difference is they don't care what else is there. If you want something from someone who can't provide it - then yeah you move on. But to totally disregard and date someone you wouldn't sleep with and expect that to grow later on is just as crazy as expecting the relationship to survive physical alone.

Course if you do go with the emotional and skip the physical - good luck NOT paying attention to someone you are attracted to once you're waist deep in your emotional relationship to the point you have something to lose. Where do you think a lot of affairs come from (not all, of course)? Possibly, someone decided they could have it all if they just ignored physical attraction and went with the rest...and it didn't work for em.
 KRN1994
Joined: 7/26/2008
Msg: 74
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History
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/29/2008 1:26:49 PM
I agree with djdj23... (lst page) but I don't think God did it as a joke, just think if everyone was in their prime at the same time... NOTHING would get done!!
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 78
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History
Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 8/29/2008 2:27:02 PM

Would you, for example, say that if a spouse becomes an alcoholic or drug addict, that it "shouldn't matter if you love someone"? Why is it, that everyone dismisses that a spouse with a "food addiction", i.e. consistently taking in more calories than one's body uses, despite knowing that it will have negative consequences on one's primary relationship, is somehow different?

In any case, I accept that everyone will say I'm wrong.


You're not wrong. You're spot-on. "Emotional" closeness, whatever that means to the parties involved, will deteriorate if both partners don't take as good care of themselves as they did when the relationship first started.
 sydneyleigh
Joined: 3/21/2008
Msg: 82
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Emotiona/Physicial closeness
Posted: 9/1/2008 6:53:56 AM

Physical attraction can be developed, just as it can fade over time.
Physical attraction does NOT have to be there first.


I can appreciate your perspective - it is important to have the emotional closeness. However, having been married to my "best friend" and then later finding the love of my life (although the relationship ended for other reasons) There IS a difference, and that may be the missing piece.

I was never really attracted to my best friend, and after 10 years of marriage we both realized that the friendship was not enough without the passion. (we are still friends, and business partners) For years I thought I was just the girl with the low sex drive. The biggest battle in my marriage was "not enough sex". I really thought it was me, and then, well... someone walked into my life that proved me VERY wrong.

When I met the LOML - he's not an adonis, but he was MY adonis. He awakened something in me, and we were very much in love for over 2 years. (and still have a good relationship) What that relationship taught me was that the physical attraction HAS to be there. I learned it was possible to have the emotional/intellectual connection (what I was taught is the cornerstone of the relationship) AND the physical attraction/passion.

My boyfriend has trouble believing that I was in a sexless marriage for 10 years. When he and I met, there was an immediate physical attraction as well as an intellectual one. Again, I don't know how many people would think he's "gorgeous" - but he's gorgeous and sexy to me. And the emotional/intellectual connection we have is incredible.

In the end, I discovered that I can be mad at my best friend, and not sleep with him for a LONG time, I CANNOT be mad at my lover, and not want him. I will always come down on the side of lovers first, and let the friendship develop.

And Phule, having lived where you live, I have to say - I hope you are expanding your search to Wilmington and Raleigh - because well, that little town is mostly an intellectual vacuum.
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