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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > What is friends first?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 10
What is friends first?Page 1 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
The whole "friends first" thing is also sometimes a way for a player - male OR female - to take control of a relationship.

Think about it. Person A and person B go to dinner. Person A says, "I think you're someone I'd like to go out with again." Person B says, "Well, I want to be friends first, and we'll see what develops..."

What just happenned?

Person B took absolute control of the relationship - that's exactly what just happened. Person B now "has hand" in the relationship, and can now see as much, or as little, of Person A as they wish, and on their terms. Person B can now occupy themselves with Person A whenever they feel like it, or until they find themselves a REAL relationship. Then person A will become dispensable...

Now, if Person A doesn't LIKE what Person B is doing, then Person B gets to label Person A. They can say they are needy, or clingy, or can't handle being just friends, or whatever else they need to say to "put them back in thier place."

Personally - I've learned the hard way not to allow anyone to play that game with me anymore... Yes, there are SOME women who really are here for JUST friends, but more often than not, it's a total game. If a woman can't just straight up date me, like adults, not like an adolescent girl playing games - then I'm not interested.

Mark
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 11
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 11:40:41 AM
To me anyway, "friends first" means I like you, have attraction to you, and want to know more - but want to first know how you are to spend time with under no pressure or expectation. I will tell someone as much too...as in, I dig you and want to just be around you and vibe off you for a while before I throw any sex/serious stuff in and either get my judgement clouded or feel I have to live up to something.

For me, once the sexual white heat calms down and levels off I want to be left with someone I can do things with outside the bedroom as well as in...or that is actually compatible with me in more than one way.

I may go this route and find something about him that disqualifies him as a date during this time and decide not to continue...but it doesn't mean nothing will ever happen.

It's very different from "just friends" which means I have no attraction at all and it won't be beyond platonic...ever.
 Ron9
Joined: 8/10/2004
Msg: 12
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 11:51:14 AM
"What is friends first?"

I use to just skip those profiles. To me it said ....

“I don’t respect you - but you need to respect me”

Or ....

“Calm down Mr. ...... I call the shots here”

My rationalization was ...... DUH ..... it goes without saying men should be logical / respectful of others ALL others.

----------

Then - I realized the gal was just using internet babble ..... trying to come off as a "good girl" or actually a "good girl" that did not understand how a respectful guy would take that babble.

............... all that goes without saying. Just put yourself around respectful men ...... you will not need to be concerned about "friends first".

The same thing goes for "my kids come first" ............ that is another ............ well DUH ....... it goes without saying and 99% of the guys understand it. If the guy has kids himself then it is 100% of the guys.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 13
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 11:51:26 AM
It's a cliche answer to make sure that if the woman wants to go slow and test the guy, she can. That way she can pull that line any time. I personally used to avoid women like that because these women live life through a pain avoidance mode and are afraid of what they may feel for someone.
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 14
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 11:56:11 AM
Totally agree OutMind and Ron9. Have you ever noticed that you see the whole "friends first" thing in a lot of women's profiles who think they're "all that" and then some? You know, the kind who are wanna be divas, or spoiled brats, or looking for a sugar daddy, or who have "Princess", "Queen", or "Cinderella" somewhere in the profile? :)

Personally, I saw that game a whole lot in my 20's, and it's been SO long since I've dealt with that crap I'd almost forgotten how! LOL!

Mark
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 17
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 12:25:07 PM
No - women who are looking for "friends maybe more" are just fine! I'm talking about the kind who automatically put every man they meet in the "friend zone" until they kiss enough ass, and give the woman enough control of the relationship, to "earn" their way out of the friend zone. It's their modus operandi, their way of taking hand with their man...

What happens then? Well, usually, if a guy DOES put up with that crap, when the woman finally is hooked on him, he'll dispense with that ass kissing pretty quick. Then the woman is like, "He just all of a sudden turned into a jerk!" In other words, "I can't control him anymore! Waaaaaah!"

Mark

 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 18
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 12:37:18 PM

I don't know if men are protecting their hearts or not. I think that they might be saying that for us women, so we know that they are not just trying to just get you into bed.

And usually men who use that line are doing EXACTLY that...
For a relationship to be highly functional, of course the 2 people have to be friends, respect each other,etc...but I think the friendship and the male/ female chemistry have to develop at about the same pace. If you let either component get too far ahead of the other one, you risk winding up an" I love you but I don't like you" or a"you have SO become my 'best friend'that having sex with you feels weird"scenario.
Of course there are people who genuinely and sincerely DO MEAN they want to be "friends first" but I guess I'd want to know the back story...do they dislike sex, or have difficulty with it? Have they been badly hurt by someone using them for sex, or using sex itself as a control mechanism or a smokescreen for ulterior motives or hidden agendas?
For the most part, (although nothing I do is written down on a stone tablet) I'd proceed with caution when dating a "friends first" proclaimer...until I got a better picture of where exactly it was coming from.
Cindy O
 ImAHotMess
Joined: 7/11/2008
Msg: 20
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 12:50:37 PM
Swamphunter, some names are nick names, hate to break it to you, and has nothing to do with an actual person. "Friends first" is for kids. And even at that, "friends first" MAY mean they are not really serious about entertaining a relationship. I even have it in my profile, "I already have friends." Personally, I if plan on having someone as a lover, I am probably planning on them as being a friend as well. LOL Just saying. Maybe it is just that some people really do not know what they want and use that term as a protection, or a crutch. As far as I go, I know what I want and I make it clear. No BS here. Now if I had the name or term "treat me like a princess" or "dress me like Cinderella" then I would give you permission to slap me. :) For myself, I am just very assertive and know what I want. I do like nice things and I do not expect anyone to cater to me. What I do want, is honesty and respect. To me, that is priceless.
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 22
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 1:27:21 PM
When a woman says, "Friends first", and puts you in the "friend zone" until SHE decides to take you out, have sex with you, get you to take her out, or wants to lean on you like a boyfriend, and then put you BACK in the friend zone until she needs you again - or until a REAL relationship comes along - that is NOT equal. She is taking all the power and control in the relationship, and she is calling all the shots. Yes, that usually IS the princess type... It's also something I won't put up with even if she IS "all that"...

Now - the ones who say "friends first" and MEAN it... In other words they want to develop a friendship as equals, evenly share power and control in the relationship, and the possibility of a dating or even a long term relationship IS on the table, and is a MUTUAL decision arrived at TOGETHER, that is a whole different story. That's just fine.

Also, if all she's really saying is, "I want to date, but I don't want to be sexually intimate until I feel comfortable", that's just fine too. It's when it becomes a game that it becomes a problem.

Mark
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 24
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 1:40:58 PM
~OT~ I think some men put that in their profile because so many women think they all just want sex and some women put it their profile because they think men are commitment phobes (in other words, it's what the opposite gender wants to read.) Then there are those who seriously aren't looking for anything concrete at the moment and that is the only option that might get someone interested enough to venture into another realm. Whatever that realm might be (sex, dating, etc.)

~OP~ I completely agree with the original post. I don't need yet another male friend. I have plenty. I'm grateful I have them, but I don't need another one. My Male-Friend-Zone's human resource department is closed, no longer accepting applications, not accepting resumes, lay-offs may occur in the near future if a couple of them don't get their heads out of the gutter!!
 jackster121
Joined: 9/2/2008
Msg: 29
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History
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 2:57:30 PM
I think friends first means either "no sex soon" or 'let's take it slow"
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 32
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What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 3:25:07 PM
A lot of people say they want a friend first; but if the chemistry is there, it can turn sexual real fast. If a prospect says that they want a friendship first, it's smart to just agree with that and then see what happens. If there is a spark there, your "friend" will quickly become something else.
 LadyEdenMO
Joined: 7/3/2008
Msg: 33
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What is friends first?
Posted: 9/12/2008 3:44:21 PM
If stating "friends first" prompts those looking/insisting/expecting sexual intimacy damn near out the gate to go on by - thank god! It's working! Nothing pisses me off more than a near stranger turning into a frigging octupus. I don't just follow my little head and impulsively scratch what ever itches. I want time to get to know them better, more than just what they choose to project. I choose and yes, they choose - rather than rut and see what shakes out.
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 35
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 5:52:40 AM
First: thank you, Swamphunter for post #24. The second paragraph is me.

I have lived a life full of passion and commitment. Each relationship I have had I walked into being so totally there.

Now, I have to learn how to hold onto the reigns. The last heart ache was almost to much to bare and it took along time to heal. So, does that mean I will hold back a part of me? You betcha! Call me chicken, burnt what ever. I do not care. The men I have met here have taken the time to get to know me. The others who say its all or nothing at the gate....I've known more than my share of these men. Bless them and their quest.

If I am to be damned by the male members of the pond for this...then so be it.


Of course not! :) My only point is this - it WILL change the kind of men you attract and keep around. To me, dating IS a friendship until something more develops - and yes, it is FINE to straight up DATE with sex being postponed until and unless both people are comfortable with it - so why the need for the distinction then? Often, it's all about CONTROL.

When a woman puts you in the friend zone until SHE decides to take you out of it, SHE has taken all the control of the relationship. Yes, there ARE men who will put up with this, but like I said, when the relationship finally changes, when he feels like he's got his hooks in you, then you may be in for a big surprise!

Personally, I think better relationships develop when you sit across the table from one another as equals. You BOTH control the relationship. You share the power in the relationship equally. You make decisions jointly. No one likes to be under anyone's thumb. A man MAY put up with that, but usually he WILL be resenting it.

There have been a few women I wanted badly enough that I put up with a certain amount of this. Those relationships almost NEVER end well. Again, I'm not talking about a straight up friendship with a woman. I have plenty of those. What I'm talking about is when a woman is interested in you, but does the whole, "let's date as friends" thing as a way of keeping you at a distance and in her control.

Don't you want to be courted? Don't you want to be wooed? Don't you want romance? Don't you want all that good mushy stuff that comes from DATING someone new? Well, I'm here to tell you, for most men, the whole "friends" thing not only cripples that, it changes the entire character of the relationship because usually it's a GAME. Now, I realize that isn't the case with you, with you it sounds more like a defense mechanism, but still, doesn't it end up having the same dampening effect on all the good stuff?

Mark
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 36
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What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 6:18:07 AM
I think along Jackster's lines - "Friends First" simply means "don't expect sex right away!"
ED BEAR
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 39
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 7:19:02 AM
Wow - great point Scorpion! :)

Mark
 southernredhead
Joined: 6/27/2008
Msg: 41
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 7:40:41 AM
To me it's exactly that. Friendship. Someone to go fishing with, someone to tell things to, and see where it goes. Before I climb into a bed with a man, I want to be sure he is the man for me. I am not a promiscuis woman. I am strong and independent and know what I want. I don't take the bagage of past relationships in with another man, that isn't fair to him or me. I don't want a player because this is the internet, and there are all sorts of people on here from preditors, to people wanting to cheat on their wifes for a bit of extra. I just relinquish my control to a man I am in a romantic relationship with.

I've met some nice people from this site so far, and some not so nice, but it's the nature of the beast. I am in no hurry. I also know he is looking for me as much as I seek him.
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 42
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 7:48:23 AM
Many people state 'friends' to allow for a slower discovery, and a first meeting without expectations. This is NOT about CONTROL........jeez......


That's just fine! It's also fine to DATE without immediate sexual expectations... I have no problem with any of that... Like I said, I think dating IS a form of friendship.

However, for some of people, what "friends first" really means is, "We will do this my way, on my terms, and I will run the show, or we will not do it at all. I don't care what you think, I don't care how you feel, I don't care what you want. I call the shots here. It's my way or the highway... Now, f you play by MY rules, then I MIGHT decide you MIGHT be worthy of taking this to the next level. Then you MIGHT get the privelege of actually getting to DATE me, of course this would again be predicated on ME calling all the shots. After all, this IS all about ME and what I want!"

THAT is the kind I won't tolerate.

Mark
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 44
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 7:56:11 AM
Scorpion I met a woman like that on here about a year ago. She went through a terrible divorce, and literally did not want ANYTHING but a friendship. I enjoyed her, so I said that was fine, and she became my buddy, and I NEVER crossed that line, even mentally or emotionally.

Now, she regrets that. Now she's ready for more, but frankly I'm not sure I could ever get my head in that place with her... It's kind of sad really... She's a great woman...

Now - on the other hand - the last TWO women I really dated here for any length of time, also said they were just looking for friendship. Just someone to date casually. They both dated me, and we had a lot of fun, until a real relationship came along, and then they both almost immediately married or became engaged to the guy they dumped me for. In BOTH cases, I was like, "Wait, I thought you didn't want a relationship?" And both said, "Well it just happened."

BS it "just happened"! LOL! I was Mr. Right now. I think both women totally knew what they were doing the whole time. I'm not bitter about it. I had fun dating them, but wouldn't have married either of them, at least not anytime in the near future, so whatever, but let's call a spade a spade. Sometimes the "friends" thing is just a good excuse for a player... Male OR female...

Then there was another recently who tried the same thing with me. In fact she has another guy she's been stringing along like that for 6 months now. She's had sex with him, and she dates him when she has nothing better to do, and he's always there for her at her beck and call whenever she needs anything. What a good little puppy dog! The thing is, when she finally does find a REAL relationship, she'll break that poor guys heart. I was like, "You want ME to sign up for THAT!? Thanks but no thanks..." She actually got MAD at me when I called her out on her childish game, and what she's doing to that poor guy, and we no longer speak...

Mark
 LMK45
Joined: 3/27/2007
Msg: 45
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 8:25:10 AM
In reading this thread about what a person 'really' wants, there seem to be a lot of assumptions. This is a dating site ... obviously we want to date (unless the category is talk/email, forums only, etc.). Should there be a box to check "Sex First, Friends Later"?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 57
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 9:28:48 AM
LMAO....."friends first" is a sure indication that later after the relationship is there, and he or she is saying they are going out with their friends, there really IS an issue. After all, that's how they started out with you, right?

Ugh, that's WAY too much analyzation...unless you don't ever want to be friends with the woman you date (and I hear MANY MANY men use the word "best friend" when describing what they are looking for) then you're just being difficult deliberately with this statement. Should dating you mean I should end my social life? Hell women who are friends are a threat to you too, based on that theory.

While I want to be able to be friends with the man I am dating, there's a BIG difference between someone who's a friend and someone who's an interest that I want to know AS a friend before I sleep with them.

Personally, I'm good with "Friends first", but don't come back later with the "he/she is ONLY a friend" line when your gonna go do something with your friends. Double standards SUCK.

If I tell you I like you, I want us to get to know each other, and become friends before we get intimate....and you take that as I'm just trying to control someone (besides myself, and no I NEVER apologize for controlling myself/my life) then it may mean you're just not the one for me.

How about this? We sleep with you first, and then build a friendship...don't tell me you wouldn't then be wondering who else we're sleeping with/we slept with that fast. IMO you'd still be wondering who her friends are. Men want women to be cautious about sex UNLESS it's them, then in that one specific case they want us to throw caution to the wind in the first half hour. Pffft.

My ex who I was with almost 8 years was like this...in the beginning he just sat back and let me do what was comfortable for me - maybe because I approached him first, I don't know...but it paid off tremendously for him. Why would a man who likes you WANT you to anything you're not ready for? That's the question. He should want you to want something just as much as he does...if he cares about you at all.

As mentioned earlier, letting the process unfold naturally, will encompass both emotional and sexual intimacy simultaneously, and for me, the good relationships are based on that, not on a lot of "strategizing" or "control".

I guess that's the issue...for both, different things come naturally....for men, sex does and for women, wanting to know you first does. Meh.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 60
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 9:58:45 AM
^^^To me wanting to be friends with someone I date does not exclude romantic inclination unless I say "friends only". Friendship and dating are not mutually exclusive to me, rather they are a combination that I want in a relationship (when I meet someone I actually want one with, anyway).

When I say something absolute, like "we'll never be more than friends" that's different...and ironically, most men I say that to still hang around and hope more develops, so apparently they don't feel the word means forget it...tho with "Just" or "only" included, they should.

I always give direct signals, in fact I get grief for being too honest in a lot of cases.
 Race25
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 70
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History
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 1:26:05 PM
When the head line of a profile reads "Friends first" or something like it, the author just wants someone to buy them dinner a couple times then decide that thats as far as the relationship is going.....I just don't bother with those people.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 71
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 1:28:09 PM
^^^Pick different women, then. I don't want anyone's free dinner - or their money. What makes you men think sitting thru a dinner with you is that wonderful, even if it's free? The word friend has nothing to do with a woman's idea of a date....you don't want to pay for dinners, then don't pay for em - no one's got a gun to your head.

Good grief, this is like the want/need conversation....women mean one thing, men take it another way, and when women explain what they mean men say "we don't care, we're still gonna react like we don't know".

Ok.

Guess it comes down to who wants a relationship more...
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 72
What is friends first?
Posted: 9/13/2008 1:43:33 PM

If one embraces "sex when I decide", but prior to marriage, I don't know any faith or ethical system that would find a distinction between sex on a first date, or sex at 6 months. It's simply about responding to fear and demanding control.

That's the gist of it for me, it seems like a fear response, and demand for control. Could I sometimes be wrong? Sure. But in looking at profiles it's a "numbers game". All of God's creatures are "special", but someone who is just a profile is not someone who is "special" to me at that point, and if someone is aggressively demanding control, by dictating the terms, my visceral response is "no". I will "control" being controlled by moving on.

We get it. You think insta-sex is the key to world peace. I think I'm missing something because after so many years here, I can honestly attest ~ I've NEVER seen one other poster (and there have been many many many) that is so obsessed with how women USE sex for control. Maybe you need to find a Domme and let her work you over a little so you'll know what "control" and sex have in common. Just a suggestion. Good grief ~ enough already.

~OT~ I think there are those of us who go through periods where friends are much more needed than anything else and I think many truly do mean "just friends." In addition, however, I do think, often times it's just a bunch of meaningless verbage. I've been contacted in the past by many of those "friend's first" types but after a couple of emails, the truth comes out ~ they want an insta-relationship. But that may have just been my personal experience.
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