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 surreygal
Joined: 10/11/2006
Msg: 3
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Political CorrectnessPage 1 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
I totally agree matey. You said it exactly how it should be. When i was a child my dad use to love watching alf garnet. Everyone in the house use to laugh their heads off. Times have changed and people seem to be overly sensitive to things. The media do not help with their stories and people do not help by not using common sense. We all lived together happily before but god knows whats happened to this world now. I feel sorry for my son.
 Loose_end
Joined: 9/12/2006
Msg: 8
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Posted: 10/6/2008 7:10:47 AM
When in Rome, do as the Romans

"stwike him centuwion! vewwy woughly"

" And errrrrrrr throw him to the floor sir?"

I think maybe, especially regarding our media, reporters will report with their own agenda, and its that agenda which leads to a public outcry......

We are not so politically obliging as we are led to believe.

"Come the glorious day Citizens"
 ~Hams~
Joined: 9/18/2008
Msg: 18
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Posted: 10/6/2008 9:28:18 AM
I'm not racist either as I have a lot of mates who are Paddies,Taffs and Jocks
and we all get on like a house on fire although we don't have time for the Frogs
at the moment as they keep going on strike all the time and only have a bath once a year.
 restless_native
Joined: 12/17/2006
Msg: 36
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Posted: 10/7/2008 3:52:29 AM
just because someone doesn't agree with an opinion does not make them a racist a fascist, or a bigot,


I couldn't agree more.

In a lot of instances the person is simply a narrow minded ranting idiot.
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 37
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Posted: 10/7/2008 4:23:08 AM
I think it's a shame when everyone who expresses an opinion involving the negative behaviours of specific non UK indigents is lumped in with those who really are bigoted and racist ...

I think it is perfectly reasonable to dislike a certain person and their behaviour no matter what nationality/race/creed/religion/colour/sexual orientation/ability level/ whatever ... We cannot like everybody all the time ..

To put somebody who expresses a specific problem with a specific person and a specific incident in the same category as someone who screams blue murder as soon as the words immigration and or foreign appear is taking political correctness to an unneeded extreme and does as much damage as those who want their version of an Aryan utopia ...

If someone is being a bloody idiot and they happen to be foreign, then they are no less deserving of being called an idiot because of the fear of the accuser being called racist..


Stupidity is the true bringer together of all humanity ...
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 40
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Posted: 10/7/2008 6:52:51 AM
Just as an aside, I wonder if it is common for those of a different nationality to do the same thing as some of us unwittingly do and separate ourselves by being simply ( sometimes) descriptive ...

I tend to call other people by whatever is immediately noticeable about their appearance .. Never intending to be discriminatory .. Such as ..umm the woman with the really long black hair .. The guy with a wart on the end of his nose ... If they are caucasion!!! ...
I simply don't think to call them the white woman/ guy because it is no different to me... I have in the past and still do describe people I am talking about by their nationality/colour if they have no other obvious distinguishing feature and even then I am still guilty of the fact.. Never meaning to be offensive but I probably could be seen as being so .. Now do other nationalities/colours do the same thing about us?

Do mainland Europeans when on a night out describe countrymen as being that big guy/ blonde girl, yet describe us as that English/ British bloke ( not sure if they would differentiate between the home countries? ) ?

Do Black/ Asian whomever describe us as the white woman/man yet would use something more personal when describing one of their own colour?

I confess I am guilty of doing this.. Is this racist? I never intend to be offensive but I guess thinking about it, it could be construed as being such and most definitely non PC ??
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 43
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Posted: 10/7/2008 7:47:26 AM
Msg 51, I see no inappropriate jocularity in my postings???

My heritage is far more diverse than just my grandfather ...


I guess those that decide they dislike you because of an opinion posted on here are just as narrow minded as those they purport to loathe ... There is no leeway given ...

You are what they say you are because they say so...
 Lorri55
Joined: 10/5/2007
Msg: 76
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Posted: 10/9/2008 9:56:09 PM
haha!! I didn't even know that's what we were called in rhyming slang....I can think of one or two Scots who would suite the name though (not myself, I wash my socks )
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 77
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Posted: 10/9/2008 11:41:10 PM


I.e A friend of mine works in the caring profession and is not allowed to call a person suffering with diabetes ......diabetic as they view that as you are seeing someone as a diabetic and not a person !!!



that's rubbish. you are allowed to call patients with diabetes diabetics!

i don't know where your friend got this idea from.....

lmao

edit: evidence = NICE guidelines on diabetes :)


As someone who has had an awful lot to do with Diabetes, (my brother had it for over 20 years). He was never described as 'the Diabetic', he was always described as 'the patient with Diabetes'.. This is because the guidelines state that the person should not be defined by their illness as it is dehumanising, the same as calling a child with Downs Syndrome an Downs baby .. You are turning the person into a specimen of the disease/disability they are afflicted with... Guidelines state that the patient comes first and the affliction second, so they should always be described as, the patient who has Diabetes/ whatever ...

HTH
 Steve_Sandy
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 81
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Posted: 10/11/2008 3:39:05 AM
prefer freedom of speech also, would never dream of calling the police if some guy slandered / swore / called me nasty names etc me in public, like one of the earlier posters have done, quite sure that they have better things to do

different cultures have different values, if people want to come to this country, they should accept our values and not try to impose their own

no-one has forced anyone to come all the way across europe (safe haven) to England, so it can't be all that bad

but for councils to ban xmas for possibly offending muslims or other religious groups is the left wing PC brigade going too far as per usual
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 102
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Posted: 10/14/2008 3:21:05 AM
ZeeGary, I can actually see where you are coming from with that statement ...

As an analogy, if you touch stinging nettles they sting, touch them enough times and they keep on stinging then you stop touching them ...

The problem comes when you transfer that learned behaviour onto a social group ..
They're far more diverse within their own groups than most other things...

I know lot's of lovely Asians, Poles, Afro Caribbeans you name it ... But when you hear of knife crime and gun crime it is predominantly black on black crime (round here) . So unfortunately you do get a negative over view of a particular group of people.. Whether it is true or a warped view because of poor reporting, I don't know..

The important thing to do is to remain open to each individual, take them on merit and to never write off anyone just because they belong to a group you might otherwise view in a less than positive light... That is when you become racist and not just cautious..
 Benevolent Being
Joined: 10/6/2008
Msg: 119
Political Correctness
Posted: 10/15/2008 4:54:44 PM
I was reading another forum on here last week where some man admitted he was a racist saying that he wouldn't sleep with a woman who had slept with a black man.

I can't believe comments like that aren't deleted.

People have the right to be racist it's the ones who shove their racist views down your neck who should be barred from doing so. I thought racism was against the law anyway.
 trooperbill
Joined: 4/26/2007
Msg: 126
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Posted: 10/16/2008 10:00:24 AM
My issues are with self segregation, this is why the government has dropped the "Multi-cultural Britain" moniker... it just doesn't work.

Ive worked with lots of 'minorities' and the for most part we get along like a house on fire i guess my issue is with people pushing their 'faiths' onto other people which sucks because thats a big part of being a Muslim... its the Immams (sp probably) to blame as theyre preaching 5th century values to 21st century people and actively seeking to keep their communities from integrating into the whole... go figure.
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 133
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Posted: 10/17/2008 7:23:52 AM
That link actually supports message 176's post that Belgium and the Netherlands have a far higher population density than we do???


vvv Ahh that's for England and not the UK as a whole ...
 halopfish24
Joined: 9/30/2008
Msg: 135
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Posted: 10/17/2008 8:32:07 AM
I have one question, would you say that immigration control should also happen to any one moving from the uk to other parts of the globe.
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 147
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Posted: 4/13/2009 7:16:06 AM
Pc is labours way of divide and rule, and the idiots who try and preach pc to the people are there foot soldiers who dont even realise there doing labours dirty work. When i walk into my local theres black, asian, gay, jocks and taffs in there and we all share jokes about different ethnics and disabilities and no one has a problem. The ones who are the problem are government, councils and quangos who throw common sense out the window with having to fill out forms stating your colour and race for everything. Next time surf the net check out where your council gives grants to, mine gives out thousands to ethnic organisations why? Shouldnt it be a level playing field for everyone? Now we got the police to scared to search people in case they get called racist ffs!
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 149
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Posted: 10/25/2009 4:59:50 PM
There's been a lot of talk lately in the forums about "PC", seems it's always gone on here, judging by this thread.
But I would be interested to see what people think it means, I did a bit of research, to see the origins of the phrase. I am genuinely confused by the phrase, as it seems to be trotted out a lot, and mainly by the people who wish to use language which is designed to offend. on the basis of some dubious "freedom of speech" mantra, and I don't understand that. It seems to me that if a person tells me he finds a name or phrase offensive, the civilised thing to do is to stop using it, or saying it. Just because you've been told it offends. Like I said before in the forum, we used to call this politeness, not "PC".

It's been said that the "PC" "Brigade" are acting on behalf of people who don't actually feel any offense, and I feel that this is unlikely, surely they got the information on acceptable and non-acceptable terms from those involved?

From:
http://www.answers.com/topic/political-correctness


Critics of PC have shown the same sensitivity to word choice that they claim to oppose, and of perceiving non-existent political agenda.[35] For example, some newspapers reported that a school had altered the nursery rhyme “Baa Baa Black Sheep” to read “Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep”.[36] But it is also reported that a better description is that the Parents and Children Together (PACT) nursery had the children “turn the song into an action rhyme. . . . They sing happy, sad, bouncing, hopping, pink, blue, black and white sheep etc.” [37] That nursery rhyme story was circulated and later extended to suggest that like language bans applied to the terms “black coffee” and “blackboard”.[38] The Private Eye magazine reported that like stories, all baseless, ran in the British press since The Sun first published them in 1986.


It seems that many of the examples quoted earlier in the thread may be baseless.

And Polly Toynbee says much of what i think here:

Similarly, Polly Toynbee argued that “the phrase is an empty right-wing smear designed only to elevate its user.” [31]

Commenting on the UK's 2009 Equality Bill, Toynbee wrote that:

"The phrase "political correctness" was born as a coded cover for all who still want to say Paki, spastic or queer, all those who still want to pick on anyone not like them, playground bullies who never grew up. The politically correct society is the civilised society, however much some may squirm at the more inelegant official circumlocutions designed to avoid offence."[32]

So just who are the "PC Brigade"?
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 150
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Posted: 10/25/2009 5:17:01 PM
on a different forum, i was asked about why birmingham city council deceided to call christmas .... winterval. im sure most forum users can remember the uproar about it. if you want a read just google. but found this which sums it up quite good.

http://blogs.sundaymercury.net/pc-plod/
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 155
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Posted: 10/26/2009 4:04:11 AM
Subject: An Obituary printed in the London Times



Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.



He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:

Knowing when to come in out of the rain

Why the early bird gets the worm

Life isn't always fair

and Maybe it was my fault.



Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).



His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place:

Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate

Teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch

and A teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.



Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.



It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sunscreen or an Aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.



Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.



Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.



Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.



Common Sense was preceded in death by

his parents, Truth and Trust

his wife, Discretion

his daughter, Responsibility

and his son, Reason.



He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers:

I Know My Rights

I Want It Now

Someone Else Is To Blame

I am a Victim



Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.



If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 162
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Posted: 10/26/2009 6:40:59 AM
The 'politically correct brigade' are generally submissive bullies


I am intrigued,,,, I'd quite like to see a "submissive bully"... would he get beaten by a "dominant victim"?


5) The 'politically correct brigade' are generally those who say how the x, y or z might be offended.

As I said above, this has been said, but I think it's more likely that they are listening to those who are offended about what offends them..


10) The 'politically correct brigade' are generally those who have an issue with a person who is proud to be who is i.e. Cascausian, English/British, heterosexual, able-bodied, etc.

I would need examples of this before I could comment, as at the moment it just sounds like paranoia.


You have to laugh at Nulabours brand of political correctness


This doesn't really give me a clue as to whether you think this is a left-wing or a right-wing phenomenon though?

There have been examples of right-wing "PC" as well though: the re-branding of "french fries" as "Freedom Fries" in America, the renaming of sauerkraut as "Liberty Cabbage" during the first world war.
from:
http://www.answers.com/topic/political-correctness

Before the US invasion of Iraq, the Dixie Chicks country band played in London. During the 10 March 2003 concert, they introduced the song “Travelin’ Soldier”; The Guardian quoted Texan Natalie Maines: “Just so you know, we’re on the good side with y’all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we’re ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas.” [41]
Newspaper columnist Don Williams described the resulting backlash against the band as the price for freely speaking political views disapproved by the Right Wing — “the ugliest form of political correctness occurs whenever there’s a war on. Then you’d better watch what you say.” , "He noted that Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly called the musicians’ comment treasonous.

I hear that today there is a bit of a backlash against comedian Jimmy Carr's jokes about amputee soldiers during a show this weekend, which seems to be another sign of political correctness coming from those who "support the war" traditionally on the right.
And from personal experience, I can say that any criticism of the royal family, or the church is viewed as both "disloyal" and "politically incorrect" by those who describe themselves as "Proud to be English".
Isn't it very "Un-PC" at the moment to criticize soldiers?

If I were a cynic I might think that this was a 'nod' by the tories at political correctness, but it does seem a little hypocritical...
From: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-107649466.html

London, Sept 11 (PTI) Britain's opposition Conservative Party is making a serious bid to woo Asians, particularly Indians here, saying it needed more women, black and Asian MPs in its rank in the next general elections.
"In the past we had given the impression that Asians were not wanted. But things have changed and we want to build a different Britain. Now is the good time to invest in the Conservative party your energy, money and talent and we do need more women, black and Asian MPs," Gary Streeter, MP and Vice Chairman of the Conservative Party

So are the right wing just pretending to be politically correct too, to win votes?

 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 165
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Posted: 10/26/2009 8:51:27 AM

I feel sorry for those who are too paranoid to be proud of what they are and who they are. Thankfully, I am not one of those, as I am proud of my race, nationality, gender, character, etc, etc.

I am proud of who I am, I am proud of my character too, but I think I would look foolish to say I was proud of my gender, wouldn't I?
And the same goes for race and nationality, as I played no part in those things, they were not even of my choosing, so to me, saying I was proud of them is like saying I am proud the sky is blue. I am being proud of something that just happened.
Are you more proud of your gender than you would be if you were a woman?
Do you also feel 'shame' if another 'white' man does something bad?
Would you feel shame if your skin was darker?

lets just hope that when the tories get into power in the very near future that they quash alot of these ultra left wing pc do gooder laws and give us our freedom of speech back..

What exactly are you being prevented from saying now?
And if you read my previous post with the quote from the tories, you'll see that they want to encourage more "asians" in their party, which particular "ultra left wing pc do gooder laws" will they quash?
What words, do you want to use which are considered Un-PC?
So "PC" is only a left-wing thing?
Or is everyone so cross because they're being prevented from using the "N" word?
Have the tories got the resumption of the Robertson's Jams' logo in their manifesto?

It's all beginning to sound like Polly Toynbee was right....
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 169
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:42:11 AM

The other side of PC is the way in which its trying to make things religeon/race friendly, appologies if i'm wrong, but the british were here first (or something like that), so as much as i don't mind islam/sikhisim/hiduisim and hell lets get shinto involved too, i welcome them to scotland and england with open arms, have not got a problem in the slightest. but if you find christmmas and easter offensive then don't come crying to us, its our country, could you imagine me going to Saudi arabia and complaining about their not being enough christianity?? i wouldn't last long would i?


Well I'm a very bad man, and not really the right person to be talking to about religious festivals, or any of "their" or "our" religious rituals etc., as I think it's all bunk.
I don't believe the "supreme being/god" sh@gged the virgin mary, (or however else he's supposed to have inseminated her) any more than I believe in adam and eve.
I do like a good p155-up in the middle of winter as much as the next man though, and the giving of presents is a nice custom, to me it feels equally nice in june.
Not very PC, I know....
Perhaps as belief dwindles, so will adherence to the rituals also naturally dwindle away?
But is that PC or just progress?
There are probably many other ancient rituals we no longer adhere to, fasting at lent, was still quite common when I were a lad, and harvest festivals etc, maypole dancing, punch and judy, dwarf tossing.....
Is the fact that most circuses don't have animals in, also political correctness?
Foxhunting? (The tories do say they'll bring that back!)
Bear baiting?
Doesn't what is considered PC or Un-PC change with the times or with public opinion?
It seems to me that some people complaining about PC are just resistant to change...
That's a sure sign you're getting older!
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 172
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:56:29 AM
with reference to the questioning of winterval and the wiki, seems you have left out this .... again from the wiki.

In 2008, Church of England leaders in Birmingham criticised the "Winterval" concept. Mark Santer, then Bishop of Birmingham, said in a message to his parishes, "I confess I laughed out loud when our city council came out with Winterval as a way of not talking about Christmas. No doubt it was a well-meaning attempt not to offend, not to exclude, not to say anything at all. ... Now it seems, the secular world, which expresses respect for all, is actually embarrassed by faith. Or perhaps it is Christianity which is censored."[4] The Archdeacon of Aston called it "a totally unnecessary example of political correctness to avoid sensitivities people simply do not have". [4] The council responded that "Christmas is the very heart of Winterval", saying that Christmas-themed events were prominent among those included in Winterval, and that Christmas-related words and symbols were prominent in its publicity material.[4] While the Winterval season was longer than the Christmas season, Christmas was the focus of the relevant portion of Winterval.[2]

Solihull council invited Birmingham residents desiring a traditional Christmas to come there instead.[2]

[edit] Legacy
Birmingham City Council abandoned the "Winterval" name after the 1998–9 season.[2] The name "Winterval" persists as shorthand for any secular replacement for Christmas, used both by supporters[5][6] and opponents[7] of the traditional Christmas; it is also cited as a cautionary tale or urban legend by those who regard allegations of the existence of a "war on Christmas" as overblown.[2] As such, "Winterval" has been the topic of a question on the quiz-show QI.


all this is quite suprising, considering brum hasnt exactly got the best record on racial violence. but think most brummies would rather have an ozfest, and its not chrimbo without the shout of noddy holder. just cannot imagine him running round the streets shouting ITS WINTERVAL!!

edit, tell the truth chops, you asked him for a carling darling lol
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 174
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Political Correctness
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:25:17 AM
Mark Santer, then Bishop of Birmingham, said in a message to his parishes, "I confess I laughed out loud when our city council came out with Winterval as a way of not talking about Christmas. No doubt it was a well-meaning attempt not to offend, not to exclude, not to say anything at all. ... Now it seems, the secular world, which expresses respect for all, is actually embarrassed by faith. Or perhaps it is Christianity which is censored.


It was explained earlier (hula) what the council's intentions were, and yet this man, and others, choose to ignore that and decide that they really know what the Council were thinking!
IMO Christianity should be censored, or at least subject to the rules of the Trading Standards, and Advertising authorities; prove what you're saying is true, or stop selling it. Is that "PC"?
I confess I laughed out loud at the suggestion I could take the opinion of someone in that hat seriously!
This man isn't there on any sort of merit, he says he felt "a calling"... - to dress up. These people are all self appointed, why should I listen to him?
His ideal would be to wear a loin cloth and a crown of thorns, because it says so in what can only be described as a book !!
He probably believes the mentally ill are possessed by the devil!
He is paid to perform rituals, of course he's going to fight for his "job", and the continuation of his "job" depends on belief, and the perpetuation of those rituals.

Edit: But if you look at msg 155 , chop, when I researched it, it says that all those things; baa baa black sheep, blackboard and black coffee were all myths which originated in the "Sun". There is nowhere where that's "banned"
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 176
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Posted: 10/26/2009 10:34:41 AM
well as far as im aware, christmas is a christian festival, and guess what .... we live in a christian society like it or not. so would think the various bishops know a thing or two rather then a council about the whole thing?

im not a christian but still respect that christmas is celebrated by the large majority. but you are still missing the point that the council came up with a stupid idea and resulted in negative views. the council in question doesnt have the best record when it comes to bringing the people together, instead it does more to seperate. wouldnt be suprised if the duke of edinburgh was head of media and pr.
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